Oh crap, I kinda like it!
Terry.

And if you go this route, you'll end up what you've had for years -- T-shirts that are nothing special.

Not sure why a professional design from Ryan isn't worth $250 or so to you. You've lost at least that much in sales just from those in this thread that don't like the general premise of the contest.

You have taken the slam-dunk win you would have have had and the good will / free advertising that would have gone with it if you had simply accepted Ryan's incredibly generous offer. Instead, you just tell us that we should be having fun by giving you designs for free.

I'll have to have my wife meet you at Expo. She doesn't believe there is anyone more thick-headed than me.

Expo reference.JPG

Here is the thread; Always a good read.....

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-expo-recomendations-for-2014

I have no dog in this hunt but see it both ways.

I might have honestly made the same mistake as Mike and opened up a contest to design a 30th anniversary t-shirt for fun. A contest for amateurs to compete. Not realizing I may be offending the artist community (now I do). Would I have immediately apologized upon this realization and considered alternatives - yes. Sometimes we all can be unintentionally ignorant. It's how we rebound once we know.

Ryan seems like a cool cat and talented. But Ryan could have sent Mike a separate email about his gripe with Rob and his very fair offer for his talent rather than posting on here first. Sort of incited the natives. It's not Mike's problem that Ryan is in a financial tight spot and is creatively trying to find a way to fund his trip so his family can attend Expo. I do respect Ryan's passion. But, for the community to demand Mike hire Ryan or else - how do you expect a bear to knee jerk when cornered? And who's to say Ryan is the most talented designer in the pinball community? Sort of short changed other artists in the pinball community. Cool Ryan has a fan base but pitchforks came out very fast with demands. Just sayin.

Now - hands off the keyboard let me finish before you skewer me.

I think there were faults on both sides of this story. However, say it with me - it's how you rebound.

Mike you have a great way to rebound from this, create goodwill, and help a fellow pinball enthusiast who wants to come to YOUR show. I know there is ego involved and it's hard for you and Rob to want to compromise. But you have a perfect script written here - artist wanted, artist who is a pinball enthusiast in financial pinch offers services, well respected by community, you and Rob take him up on his offer, great design ensues, shirts sell better than ever because now there is a huge story behind this and the pinball community will buy the shirts just to prove the community was right - you make money and look like hero. Was your hand forced - who cares. See the bigger picture.

There are books written on PR stunts. This isn't one of them but hot dog if this couldn't turn into a feel good story for you to capitalize on (wipes a tear from his eye). The kicker, the guy is freakin talented. Winner winner chicken dinner! I want a feel good story for Expo - give me my feel good story for Expo. And if you still want a contest too, pmwolf had a great recommendation earlier in the thread - do both.

Alternatively, you stand pat. Dig your heels in on principle. Have your contest. Choose a winner other than Ryan. Not many will buy the shirt because the back story that will be all weekend is how blah blah blah you guys were to not support someone in the hobby who is talented & respected. How you trivialized artists trade by running a contest in the first place. The focus moves away from how cool 30th anniversary of Expo is and all the good you guys are doing to whispers of ____insert insult here____. Whether you like it or not damage control time my friend. It's how you rebound.

(for the record, Yancy's design I'm digging)

Badbilly could not have said it better. For a few extra bucks Mike gets a great desgin and sells more shirts. I'm in for 1 if it is Ryan's desgn.

lol. You're dead on though. I'm happy to believe that Mike had no malice, that's easy. I'm even willing to say he really meant for it to be fun, and not a scammy form of cheapness. Fine no problem. Not everyone sees these things at first.

Thing is after this reaction how are you not going to at least re-think your approach and how you talk to people about it? That's where the character starts to show. Do the right thing here, let go of the idea, realize it was an inadvertent mistake. I say go with Ryan, but you certainly don't have to, it's your show. Just don't ask people to do free labor for you on it.

Amazing...

a simple little t'shirt contest post and it turns into a b list soap opera. If you don't want to participate.. then don't. They weren't asking to hire a pro here, it was a silly little contest for anyone that wanted to see their art get featured and you guys turned it into a witch hunt. I kind of figured it was geared more towards something for pinheads to do with their kids.

I wonder how many of the people here carrying the torches and pitchforks have actually done ***ANYTHING*** to help put on a show. Probably very few if any.

30 years of going insane trying to organize and put on multiple shows, dealing with manufacturers, lawyers, vendors, hotels, guest speakers, caterers and all the other crap that goes into it. Thats not even taking into consideration that they load a couple box trucks up to the brim with a few thousand pounds of flyers,tons of backglasses, and a pile of rare machines that most people wouldn't let see the light of day.... drives them 400 miles . unloads them, sets them up... lets people beat the living crap out of them like a bunch of chimpflippers at chucky cheese.... deal with all the problems and bull that pops up in 3 days of no sleep and trying to please people who are never happy with anything you do.... then has to pack them all back up and drive 400 miles home just to unload them all over again before going through the same work for the ohio show.

All that time, effort and mind numbing set up ... and this is what they get for it. Misery over something as simple as a t'shirt.

If they decide to hire ryan to do a professional design... great.. good for him.. maybe it'll be epic. Mike even posted he was interested in talking to ryan... though i don't know why. As well worded as ryans post was, the whole approach just seemed like a well designed way to get all of pinside to gang up and bully and browbeat mike into making a deal with him---and it looks like it's working.

After Expo this year, everyone complained about all sorts of things...stagnant...not enough machines...location...parking...difficulties bringing machines...hurt feelings...Mike vs. Terry...we have all read the threads. I think Mike is genuinely trying to make things better. If this guy didn't care about Expo he wouldn't be around. We asked him to make things better, and to save Expo.

That's what this tee-shirt thing is. He has had the same sweatshirt design since I have been going for years. I am sure he looked at that from the perspective of trying to make things better and thought how can we do that with the tee-shirt? That's all he is trying to do...make things better.

I understand the concerns raised by graphics professionals here, and I see where they are coming from. They are devalued all the time because the nature of their work is to create something that looks so appropriate and natural that people think it looks effortless. When it is all done, you guys make it look easy...too easy sometimes. People don't understand the work you put in.

But where I think Mike is coming from is that people volunteer for Expo. They volunteer their machines...they deliver and set them up for free...they break them down and remove them for free. I am sure there are many volunteers who help with planning, set up, take down, etc. I think Mike is looking for people to work in spirit of volunteerism...whether it is right or not...if that is how it is always done this should not be a surprise. I do not know the financials of Expo...is there a profit? Does it sometimes lose money? Where do those profits go? I would suspect no one is getting rich off of Expo. If Mike is making big money off of expo, then he can pay a few bucks for professional services. I agree. But if it needs volunteers to work, we can either volunteer or not. Our choice, but I'd cut Mike some slack for trying to make the show better.

One last item, IMO Expo is important to pinball...manufacturers...vendors...operators...players...and even new people who are curious. I don't think the pinball community is large enough to afford infighting, boycotts, etc. When Jack Guarnieri starts a new company it is good for innovation, it is good for pinball. We need to have his back, he is one of our own. Its the same with Mike. Expo is good for pinball, and it is the sort of thing that we should all feel a part of. Expo is declining the last couple of years. It is hurting, and needs the support of the pinball community.

I plan on bringing a few (at least 3) games to expo and i would be happy to give you an arm band.

-c

Clay needs to get a Hercules under the pavilion and offer field trips to see the Predator's production line. Line up a couple of "speakers" that only 100 people have ever heard of (hell, maybe he just puts up some cardboard cutouts of old guys and plays a podcast), and BOOM, the pinball epicenter shifts from a suburb of one blown out city to a suburb of another blown out city.

Maybe come up with a tee shirt that has Rat-Fink on it? Or maybe just lift somebody else's logo and sort of scratch out the stuff we don't want. I'm full of original ideas.

Expo needs to adapt or die.

I think the days of running for profit on the back of free labor are over. When you were the only game in town, lots of people want to make it "their show" and lend a hand to make it something special.

When people see the greed and poor attitude (nothing like getting yelled at by staff for things as simple and not understanding their confusing schedules) of those running a show along with fewer games and MANY alternatives, then the fate of Expo has been predetermined unless they can make some serious changes IMHO.

I know my time is valuable and I prefer to get the most bank for my buck while also supporting those which put on shows that seem to care about those in attendance.

Pinball is better when we hold people accountable for their actions, when we choose to support those that follow the right ways to do things as dictated by own moral codes, and when we don't blindly give a pass to someone just because they're in the hobby.

I'm just some guy who likes pinball, who writes the occasional article on it for the publication I work for, and who does some alternate translite projects. And who posts too much on Pinside. It's nothing special.

No one has to follow my lead, I'm not organizing a boycott or anything ridiculous like that.

I stick with what feels right to me. For my translite stuff all I want is for the people who get them to be satisfied and happy, and if they're not I do whatever I can to fix that. I imagine if I was running a pinball show I'd feel very stressed trying to make sure I did things the right way, and that people were happy. It sounds like a ton of work.

If I made a mistake I'd be grateful for people to call me out on it, and help me make it right.

If someone is afforded that opportunity it's how they respond that counts to me, because we all make mistakes and mis-steps. I'm not satisfied with how Mike chose to do so, this "let's just carry on with the contest and see what happens" attitude doesn't work for me. So I'm choosing to not support his business as long as that's his move. Because that's what feels right to me.

Everyone else has to make their own calls.

I made it crappy on purpose! Looks like I didn't try hard enough.

Alright...as a complete novice and someone who's never entered an art contest before, I'm throwing my hat in the ring. What'll it be? Turtle or pirate?

turtle-pirate1.jpg

Rob
creditdotpinball.com