I never said artists don't work hard. I totally respect they can do what they do, I know I can't. but that does not change the fact that a contest aimed at the public to do an "art project" does not devalue what pro artists are doing.

There are certain gaskets that are sure to blow every year. I set my watch by them.

No thanks, I think I will just go to pinball life expo instead. They don't treat artists like shit.

Anyone else want to join me in NOT going to Chicago Expo? Maybe if we get enough people to commit to not going then Mike will see the error of his ways... It appears the only thing that matters to him is cash / lost revenue.

My free, no strings attached submission:

"My distro went to Expo
and all he bought me
was this lousy T-shirt."

Go with the classics, I say!

Sure it does.

When a company knows it can essentially get a professional design done for free, guess what happens to the professional artist? S/he gets less work; s/he can't charge a fair rate.

An "art project"? Is a broken toilet a plumbing project? Is an un-made meal a dinner project?

No shit. I do RFPs all day long. Guess what? That's probably a multi-million dollar contract in your example. You do the RFP to compete for the big pie, and you make your living on the % of ones you successfully get. And no, you're not doing the full work, you're simply fulfilling the proposal phase, it's not like you finish the RFP, get the job, and go "welp, we already did all the work, heading to the beach now, have fun building that!".

When I do an RFP for a quarter million dollar ad campaign and don't get it, hey was worth a shot still, that's the level of competition at that scale. Last one I did for that rate was accepted. The final design is only vaguely like the proposal, I'm waiting for the second round of approval from the client. Plenty of work after the RFP stage. My design rates factor all that in. All these example are just way too far removed from $100 tshirts to be all that relevant though.

Your vendors aren't supplying free shit to you, and then if you like it maybe you'll pay them I assume?

Has Pinball Life announced 2014 dates yet?

My wife did artwork for a school a couple of years ago and not only did she not get the job but they stole her art work and gave it to a cheaper company to mass produce. Never again will she do free designs to get a job.

Just bring a pin to expo for free admission. Oh, wait......

This was funny last year.

If Expo is celebrating 30 years, I'd love Mike to reconcile with all the beef's he has with people like Terry, Gene, etc. Now is the time to make an awesome show and burry the hatchet(s).

My friend hold on. I'm not at all trying to defend Mike, but he just stated his intentions were for fun and he wants to still talk to Ryan. Shouldn't we lay the pitchforks down and give them a chance to talk? Just sayin.

Like to see you at Expo too.

Guys, no need to fight. I got this.

winner.jpg

I like it. Very clever.

Just trying to make a point that if someone running a show continually treats people like shit then it will impact his bottom dollar.

Let's face it, with Pinball Life throwing an awesome show of gratitude, EXPO needs to get some shit figured out really quickly and make amends if they want to make it past the 30th year. There are more and more viable alternatives and if Expo does not wake up then they will be a dinosaur before they know it.

As of right now the ONLY thing even remotely worth attending expo for are the botique pinball makers which are kind enough to lug in their games to share. Mike should be paying them to attend.

Okay, where's my $100?

Expo Design Winner.JPG

since this is a contest, i think pinside should get to vote for the best one.

I agree.

Anyone who has ever emailed Mike before knows that electronic communication isn't exactly his strong suit.

Ryan is a very calm, patient, and rational individual. He's not out to escalate this into a huge fight...where, frankly, there are no real "winners."

I'm still hopeful that Mike and Ryan can get something worked out.

Pete

Ok, this I agree with. Has Mike set up a thread with a willingness to listen to suggestions for show improvement?

I'm getting worried as recent shows like in MI I heard was extremely well run and received. TX and PA events keep picking up steam. Chicago Expo I keep hearing from hobbyists they may pass on. Expo should be "THE" event to cap off the year of shows. MGC may be evolving into the better Midwest show right now.

I want Expo to be "THE" show since it's at the epicenter of pinball - Chicago baby. I like the idea in another thread of extending to cosplay. At least with less pins some walking artwork and eye candy.

Man, I'm still trying to piece this together...

3: Lethal Weapon 3.
0: Paragon
TH: Lethal Weapon 3

P: Paragon
i: I have no idea.
n: Paragon
b - Eight Ball Deluxe
a - Lethal Weapon 3
LL: At first I thought something like High Speed or Getaway, but that isn't it.

E: Again, I know I should know it...
x: Eight Ball Deluxe
p: It looks familiar. I'll feel dumb when I see it.
o: Paragon

I'm going to feel moronic when I miss some of the easy ones.

Rollergames I think

And the i was from Circus Voltair

LL - Rollergames

Damn! Too slow

I don't disagree with any of this, but one very important thing you're forgetting, the PBL open house doesn't exist without Expo. Terry could have an open house any day of the year, but chooses to have it during Expo, because that's when he'll get the biggest/best turn-out.

This year's 30th Anniversary of Expo looks to be one of the best ever. Mike's taken past suggestions to heart and is implementing them it seems. From what I understand the free play area will be moved and will be bigger and better than it's ever been. New blood working on the room too, which promises to be a much better experience for everyone, with more, and better quality games.

I think everyone involved wants to make the 30th Anniversary special and are putting efforts into doing exactly that.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

That "i" is NOT from Cirqus Voltaire....

I don't think the LL's are Rollergames, either...

Pete

backflash_w1920x1200.jpg rollergames_bg.png

Then I hope Ryan has a cushy hotel suite right above it all.

P = Firepower II

Sadly, more artistic then mine wpuld be

Funny this came up, just got this in my last PBL order!

pbl_rev b.jpg

I get the impression that Pinball Expo did not intend to insult the pinball art community, but since the darn has burst and we're all ranting on the topic: here's my 2 cents...

There is no tit-for-tat on this topic. Creative professionals, especially illustrators, are towards the top of the list when it comes to skilled trades that are exploited. The fact that some of you want to argue that artists should waste their time designing and illustrating a client's piece, just to battle royale over who gets paid for their time, is proving the point. No other profession puts up with this crap. You want a quality artist for something you're going to sell? Request portfolios and price quotes.

Don't get me wrong, there are good art contests. Those contests, however, tend to be geared towards competition and prizes (exposure being secondary). The main point of these contests tend to be to generate good art while plugging some product, not so someone can get some quality art work done for cheap that they can then own and milk for cash.

For the record, I've done several gratis pieces for my local pinball community. All of those pieces were either for charity (100% of proceeds go to donation) or it was helping a non-profit effort. No one should be expected to put in valued work for free, just so someone else gets paid.

This happens more than you know.
As a professional artist for 35yrs. I couldn't agree more with Ryan & Aurich. We get ripped off more often than appreciated. We are born with a talent most people cannot even comprehend. It is not taught. Only cultured.
Calvin12 your statements are typical of the unenlightened. Think the car you drive is sexy? Thank an artist. Your favorite playfield? Thank an artist. 'nuff said.

No. By running the "contest" with a token "prize" of nominal value, Mike was clearly trying to get a design for free that he is going to profit from, presumably with no other compensation to the artist.

I disagree. His points were dead on. I wouldn't have written it the way he did, though maybe I would have if Mike had posted a contest to design a computerized registration, attendance and vendor system with full mobile, scanner and badge printing support and offered a "prize" of $100.

Art project, yes for this. What mike is looking for is basically an art class style project. this isn't a million $ campaign. You mention fair rate, thats a nebulous term , who decides what that is, you do. Someone elses fair compensatory on might be $100. Thats just as correct as your fair rate.

Please just stop while you're behind.

Correct on all three counts.

I should have purposely chosen all obscure games to make this more of a contest. Winner doesn't get $100, though.

I'm not behind at all, although now I may need to try to come up with a design.

Yancy is in the lead with his design.

any other submissions?

Is bangerjays borat copyrighted? Should work that in.

No the LL is from Pinball Pool

Pinball Pool Backglass.jpg

Cool. At least BadBilly27 and I both guessed the same. I don't feel too bad

Quick update: I called Mike earlier once I got off work (teaching). Caught him at an inopportune time. Said he'd give me a ring back this evening.

Thanks for the outpouring of support for my statement and recognizing the importance/worth of art. Truly appreciated.

Here's hoping for a fun shirt design to commemorate Expo's 30th year. ...no offense to Yancy, PMWolf, or the other "designers" on this thread.

Take care, guys!
Ryan

looking forward to the 30th!

Lets just get a shirt that isnt the same as every year with just a year change.

Sorry I took your wonderful post and blew it up into such a shit storm. I know you understand, but still.

Mike, I don't think you meant to make anyone mad or offended. The best intentions don't really change the reality of trying to freeload off people, but I get that you didn't see it that way. But your response to Ryan's post was utterly tone deaf, and I hope that now that you've seen everyone's reaction you do the smart thing and work out a deal with him. You won't regret it, because the guy is seriously dedicated, I have some of his work sitting here on my desk right now. You'll end up with a shirt you can be proud of, I'm certain of it, and it will be the right move for the community too.

See? You are threatened by our design abilities.

Aurich, you have a good heart and everything you said meant something. Here's hoping Ryan and Mike work something out.

If Ryan and Mike work something out; does that mean that the contest is being cancelled? If Ryan get the prevailing rate of two nights at the Hotel and admission, could this mean the T-Shirts will be more expensive than last year?

What the heck else do you want him to do? He's already said he will talk to Ryan privately. Give him a chance for heavens sake.

Really? I kinda of like: the Stern factory tour, the MANY seminars, the vendors, the banquet, the free play, fireside chats, etc. oh yeah, Twin Peaks too.