(Topic ID: 213388)

Pinball Etiquette


By Captchaos

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 63 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GorillaBiscuits
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    So, I am new to the pinball world. Played a bit as a kid in the 80's and now have found that enjoyment once again! I found this site and started to hunt for a machine to buy. Just purchased my first machine from cserold and couldn't be happier. Great guy, great communication....no BS! He has now become my pinball guru and continues to help with all of my stupid questions. So I figured I wanted to buy a second machine that may be more appropriate for the masses when family is over. Decided to pick up a WOZ and had a deal done with another member on this site. We had both decided on a number which included shipping by his crew. All was said and done, delivery was set for this weekend. Receive an early morning text that he had sold the machine for $100 more that night to another buyer. Granted, my mistake was that I didn't put down a deposit as COD was the deal. In my line of work this is just not appropriate. I am open to suggestions moving forward as I don't want the same thing to happen again. Thanks for the advise!

    #2 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    I am open to suggestions moving forward as I don't want the same thing to happen again.

    There is always another deal. Remember people who pull shady shenanigans and don't buy from them.

    Cash on the glass always wins vs shipping COD.

    #3 2 years ago

    Yep. Deal locally with cash to help avoid this. Unfortunately if you’re about to deal with someone you don’t know well this can happen often.

    My advice is to always stick to your agreed upon price. Another deal will always come along.

    #4 2 years ago

    Ok. Just so I understand that "cash on the glass" will override an existing deal?

    26
    #5 2 years ago

    It all depends on who you're dealing with. I was selling a TSPP which had to be shipped to the next state over. The price was agreed upon, but it took a while to setup payment to where we both were comfortable. During that time I had a local person contact me to buy the TSPP, but I could not in good conscience take the local deal while the other deal was still in progress. Don't get me wrong I wanted too as it was much easier, but a deal is a deal to me. I want to believe a handshake means something, it certainly does to me.

    #6 2 years ago

    Sometimes unscrupulous sellers will do this to try and get in a bidding war or try to squeeze more cash from you. Walk away, this guy can't be trusted.
    He may try and come back and say the second buyer backed out and try and reinstate your deal. Walk away.
    Research who you are buying from. Do a name search on Pinside and read his posts to get idea of who your are dealing with. COD purchase has it's pitfalls. Look into Escrow.com It protects both buyer and seller.

    #7 2 years ago

    Escrow.com is a bit difficult. I would definitely try to stay local for both your buying and selling of a machine. I don't know if I would go through shipping one again after doing it once. Very stressful.

    #8 2 years ago

    Don't worry, you will find another one and most likely a better deal!

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Don't worry, you will find another one

    This is a key point. There will ALWAYS be another one. New pins come for sale every day. Everyone has finite space (well, almost everyone) so stuff has to sell all the time. So don't sweat it too much.

    #10 2 years ago

    Thanks for the advice!

    #11 2 years ago

    On another note, welcome to Pinside. There is a lot of knowledge here, so don't hesitate to ask any of your questions. Half the fun of this hobby is in the hunt of a good machine for a fair price.

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    Ok. Just so I understand that "cash on the glass" will override an existing deal?

    After you've wasted a few days preparing deals that fell through you learn your time and effort have value and others often don't hold up their end. Making the sale with a person standing in front of you with cash is far less risky than shipping COD to a stranger.

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    Ok. Just so I understand that "cash on the glass" will override an existing deal?

    Cash on the glass does not override a deal that has already been made, but what can you do about it? The answer is nothing. It was a dick move by the guy you had a deal with but you got to move on. Never buy a pinball machine that you cannot see unless you know and trust the seller 100%.

    If your story is accurate, the guy is not a man of his word and what he did was not cool. Im sure though that he will probably come on here and say that you never committed to buying or something of that nature, ive seen it happen over and over on here. Just buy your games local that you can go see and touch and play and you will be much better off. Welcome to the forum!

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    Ok. Just so I understand that "cash on the glass" will override an existing deal?

    No, if the guy agreed to a deal and you had already setup shipping then a deal is a deal. I would recommend insisting on giving a small deposit by paypal or something easy just to prove to the seller that you are serious and the deal is happening. This is often all it takes to lock in a deal. Some sellers have no morals but you also have to remember that sellers get jerked around all the time too and maybe the guy was afraid to pass on a sure thing. Either way a deal is a deal and they should have stuck to it.

    #15 2 years ago

    I have not had good luck here on buying pins. Several have turned into auctions.

    On the other hand, with general helpfulness and tech questions everyone is awesome. The knowledge and skill level of some members are the best of any forum I have belonged too.

    I can't believe after 15 or so posts no one has asked who person is.

    #16 2 years ago

    It might have been a local deal vs shipping. Agreed that it was a dick move and that if the seller didn't want to ship, he wouldn't have entertained it to begin with, but still should have stuck with the deal. In the future, I would deal locally. This way you can inspect the game and know exactly what you're getting into. There's no risk of shipping damage, or getting lost in transit (yes this happens, ask me how i know). You deal in cash, and there's no way for them to scam you. Meeting face-to-face with cash is almost certainly foolproof, and there's no backtracking once the deal is done and the pin is in your vehicle on the way back home.

    Welcome to the site!

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    I have not had good luck here on buying pins. Several have turned into auctions.
    On the other hand, with general helpfulness and tech questions everyone is awesome. The knowledge and skill level of some members are the best of any forum I have belonged too.
    I can't believe after 15 or so posts no one has asked who person is.

    I have bought a few machines from Pinsiders. As per my post above, it's always been within driving distance, and if the seller insists on a small deposit to hold, I do it if I'm serious and am able to pick it up.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    I can't believe after 15 or so posts no one has asked who person is.

    We would but we just want to keep this site drama free.

    #19 2 years ago

    In time you'll be able to connect and develop relationships with the locals around you, and that is where the real horse trading is. Most deals don't even make it online. Local leagues are great for this.

    #20 2 years ago

    The one machine that did happen from here was in Chicago and I'm in NC. Paid in full and he held it for 2 weeks. But... it was only $400 so that makes a difference. If I was paying $4000 (never happen) I would drive as far as needed to pick it up.

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    We would but we just want to keep this site drama free.

    Ahh... it was you. Busted!

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    Ok. Just so I understand that "cash on the glass" will override an existing deal?

    No way in hell it should override an existing deal. Cash on the Glass helps protect you as a buyer from misrepresentation and potential gray area with shipping issues. I’m assuming what guys are saying on this thread is that it was sorry of him to do this but the only way to avoid is picking up in person. However, I wouldn’t have 3/4 of the Pins I own If that was the only option.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    Just purchased my first machine from cserold and couldn't be happier. Great guy, great communication....no BS! He has now become my pinball guru and continues to help with all of my stupid questions.

    Thanks captchaos. Appreciate the new friendship as well and anything I have learned have been from the smart and generous folks on this site. It all comes around!

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    Ok. Just so I understand that "cash on the glass" will override an existing deal?

    There are no rules unfortunately just people that have good and not so good morals. If you show up with cash and are ready to take the game then, that’s your best bet.

    #25 2 years ago

    Sorry you missed out. There are a lot of WOZ’s out there and POTC is coming out soon that folks will need to fund. You will get one.

    On your deal - Cuts both ways - you could have walked also and seller could be posting about you.

    As a buyer I would send a say $500-$1000 deposit and say in an email “this deposit is non refundable and if I bail on purchasing you fully keep it. This is not a one way street seller can not sell this and return the deposit and cancel this deal without buyers agreement.” Both buyer and seller agree then send deposit.

    If after seller bails on the deal after the deposit then call out their ass on him or her, even if they send the deposit back. They deserve it!

    Of course folks will say that is risky for the buyer, but it will get you the game.

    #26 2 years ago

    The problem I see with a deposit is how long should the seller hold the game if a deposit is placed? I don't except deposits because I don't want to hold onto a game for a month + while someone is trying to come up with the rest of the money or any other type of scenario that could have a seller holding a game for a long time.

    By not excepting a deposit that allows me to back out of a deal if I start seeing red flags or the terms start to change and I become uncomfortable with the buyer.

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from Monk:

    The problem I see with a deposit is how long should the seller hold the game if a deposit is placed? I don't except deposits because I don't want to hold onto a game for a month + while someone is trying to come up with the rest of the money or any other type of scenario that could have a seller holding a game for a long time.

    Of course. Any deposit has to have a preset date for full payment and shipment defined IMO as was the case with this transaction. Buyer was prepared to pay the upcoming weekend and on delivery per the SELLERS request!

    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    On your deal - Cuts both ways - you could have walked also and seller could be posting about you.

    I think the point here is that he would have never done this.

    #28 2 years ago

    I offerred to pay through paypal, send cert check etc. Seller said COD was perfectly fine.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Monk:

    The problem I see with a deposit is how long should the seller hold the game if a deposit is placed? I don't except deposits because I don't want to hold onto a game for a month + while someone is trying to come up with the rest of the money or any other type of scenario that could have a seller holding a game for a long time.
    By not excepting a deposit that allows me to back out of a deal if I start seeing red flags or the terms start to change and I become uncomfortable with the buyer.

    It's real simple, set a date in stone, make the deposit something that's not crazy. $250 or so and it's non refundable. If the date passes you are free to extend it if you want to and trust the person or you can tell them to F off and relist the game. Most people are not trying to come up with the money, they are trying to find a way to ship the game or time to come get it. The flakes that are just trying to raise the money are not going to risk a non refundable deposit and if they do you just got a pinball for 4 more weeks and free money.

    #30 2 years ago

    I also dont want to throw anyone under the bus. I am not sure where the sellers primary source of income comes from. If pinball is it then I dont want to obstruct that. This is pure entertainment for me... or a midlife crisis.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    It's real simple, set a date in stone, make the deposit something that's not crazy. $250 or so and it's non refundable. If the date passes you are free to extend it if you want to and trust the person or you can tell them to F off and relist the game. Most people are not trying to come up with the money, they are trying to find a way to ship the game or time to come get it. The flakes that are just trying to raise the money are not going to risk a non refundable deposit and if they do you just got a pinball for 4 more weeks and free money.

    I know this is not wrong, but it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't feel right about taking someones money and giving them nothing in return. I understand that they made the deal and it was on them to stick to the arrangement, I just don't like being in that situation. All of what has been discussed is why I don't think I will be doing a shipping deal again.

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from Monk:

    I know this is not wrong, but it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't feel right about taking someones money and giving them nothing in return. I understand that they made the deal and it was on them to stick to the arrangement, I just don't like being in that situation. All of what has been discussed is why I don't think I will be doing a shipping deal again.

    I've probably taken 15 deposits over the last 5 years and never once had to even threaten keeping it. Communication is key to making everything work. I've also had at least 20 games shipped with pretty much no issues with the sellers. I'm not sure why people act like it's so hard on here. Just research and be careful who you are dealing with. Have a simple contract and enforce it if needed.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    I've probably taken 15 deposits over the last 5 years and never once had to even threaten keeping it. Communication is key to making everything work. I've also had at least 20 games shipped with pretty much no issues with the sellers. I'm not sure why people act like it's so hard on here. Just research and be careful who you are dealing with. Have a simple contract and enforce it if needed.

    Totally agree with this. All in all buying and selling with shipping involved on this site is pretty darn safe with some basic due diligence (talk to the guy/gal on the phone, ask for pinside referrals, check post history on Pinside, etc.).

    #34 2 years ago

    Also seller not taking any deposit on their end may sound like it protects the buyer, but it also keeps the seller on the clear if they bail. Sounds awesome when they don’t need a deposit to hold a game, but is it awesome?

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

    Also buyer not taking any deposit on their end may sound like it protects the buyer, but it also keeps the seller on the clear if they bail. Sounds awesome when they don’t need a deposit to hold a game, but is it awesome?

    I'm buying 3 games from same seller that I can't have shipped until 4/11. I didn't even ask just sent $1,000 right away and another $6,000 today.

    #36 2 years ago

    There is ZERO defense here for the seller other than a douche bag move. He made a deal, now stick with it! Selling out the buyer for $100? Really? Zero business ethic and shows you that the seller's integrity can be had for little to nothing. If the seller didn't want to ship, he should have said so in the 1st place. Buyer offered paypal, cashier's check, but it was the seller that OK'd C.O.D.

    Sorry, but anyone else here that thinks otherwise, you are not someone that should involved in business deals.

    #37 2 years ago

    This can go both ways. I recently held a pin for a good friend who was waiting for his refund check to pay. I passed on other opportunities to sell the game to find out he changed his mind when his refund came in. This happened with a friend not a stranger. Moving forward I think the best way to handle it is first come first serve.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Gritty:

    This can go both ways. I recently held a pin for a good friend who was waiting for his refund check to pay. I passed on other opportunities to sell the game to find out he changed his mind when his refund came in. This happened with a friend not a stranger. Moving forward I think the best way to handle it is first come first serve.

    Not to belabor but this isn't the same situation. In this example the buyer WAS the first one and should have been served.

    #39 2 years ago

    Sounds like this is definitely a larger seller if he has people out delivering games. It was a real dumb move on his part as the OP is new into pinball and is likely to buy several more games. The seller missed a great chance to build a good relationship and get several more sales.

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    Sounds like this is definitely a larger seller if he has people out delivering games. It was a real dumb move on his part as the OP is new into pinball and is likely to buy several more games. The seller missed a great chance to build a good relationship and get several more sales.

    and quite nice of the buyer to not mention any names and hurt his business I might add.

    #41 2 years ago

    The good thing is that WOZ is probably one of the easiest pins to find used in my opinion.

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from Cserold:

    Not to belabor but this isn't the same situation. In this example the buyer WAS the first one and should have been served.

    I guess the point I was trying to make is you never have a deal until cash is exchanged.

    #43 2 years ago

    Welcome to Pinside, sorry you had a bad experience with a pinside seller... most people here are really stand up guys.....great name btw!

    andy-cauble-captain-chaos-no-bleed-small (resized).jpg

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    In time you'll be able to connect and develop relationships with the locals around you, and that is where the real horse trading is. Most deals don't even make it online. Local leagues are great for this.

    I've had about 30 machines in the last 6 years, only 1 was sourced online (and even that one I travelled to and paid in cash).

    As you get to know more people local to you you'll start to learn of these deals before they get publicised. Then the problem becomes NOT buying them

    #45 2 years ago

    I always will give a deposit for the seller to hold the machine for me. If I’m selling something, I will hold it as well, if they give deposit. I’ve had a few deals that were just a verbal agreement. I like to be honest and I would never go back out on a deal i agreed to.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from WJxxxx:

    I've had about 30 machines in the last 6 years, only 1 was sourced online (and even that one I travelled to and paid in cash).
    As you get to know more people local to you you'll start to learn of these deals before they get publicised. Then the problem becomes NOT buying them

    That does become the problem

    #47 2 years ago

    I have bought most of the 30 or so games I have owned online. It is very possible you will get some sort of duped eventually. (good thing you got it out of the way early) Just about all of my buying experiences have been good. Just be careful and make sure you get good pics. Communicate directly with the seller. Try and get seller references if you can. (you can on here) Put money down! (especially if the seller doesn't require it) Make sure the seller has knowledge on how to prepare a game for shipping. (this is a big one) If that game is not wrapped up properly it will get damaged. You can also ask a pinsider that is in the area of the selling game to go take a look. (this one can cover your ass) And we are always here for advise!

    21
    #48 2 years ago

    it's ridiculous to me that dudes wealthy enough to spend tens of thousands of dollars on toys will put their own integrity up for sale for $100.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from Captchaos:

    I also dont want to throw anyone under the bus. I am not sure where the sellers primary source of income comes from. If pinball is it then I dont want to obstruct that. This is pure entertainment for me... or a midlife crisis.

    Screw that, who is this clown? No matter what his source of income is, he needs to learn how to honor his deals.

    Protect other Pinsiders so they don't have to go through with this nonsense, who is it?

    #50 2 years ago

    So, what does the Pinside community think about leaving negative feedback on a seller's profile? Posting an honest account of the events seems fair to me. But, then I've also noticed that no one seems to have derogatory remarks on their profiles.

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