(Topic ID: 45551)

Pinball earnings from a street location plus CPA opinions on equipment

By doughslingers

10 years ago


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  • 60 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by ChadTower
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There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 10 years ago

Ok I wanted to share some real location earnings on some pins. I can do this as I own the hames and pins at the cinema. Oddly enough the Popeye I got from the Banker thru Blackrose earns almost as much as Tron Pro. None of the current line up of pins are doing as well as IM or WOZ or even Hulk LE. Spiderman was number 1 at 23.25 for the week followed by Tron, Popeye and Rocky.

If it was not for the great resale value I could not operate them in movie cinemas but they get no sunlight, limited play in comparing to pizza places, gas stations, and diners so they do not get worn out. Remember movie cinemas also have limited hours than other street locations. If you keep a pin like Spiderman where it cost 4k new use it two years at 1k a year income, you be at 2k income but you still have the pin for resale. Its been a great business model the last few years and factor in tax advantages currently in place, its been a no brainer to buy the pins. My new CPA can not believe the pins will sell for more than the new cost, I explained that this is the new normal, he just shook his head and explained it has to be a great business to by something with no depreciation. It does create a large tax bill when you sell the pin for such profit. I wonder how long this "new" normal will last.

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#2 10 years ago

Don't mean to be snarky, but did I miss the earnings the title promised? Have to admit I'm curious!

#3 10 years ago

You have to download the 3.29.13 Adobe page. I hid nothing, just incredible how much those redemption games can earn.

#4 10 years ago

I wish I had pins to play on location near me.

#5 10 years ago

My bad I missed the attachment on my phone!

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I wish I had pins to play on location near me.

This.

#7 10 years ago

Yup, prize games support pinball on location. I do the same. Gotta keep the new titles coming.

#8 10 years ago

I heard WOZ proto types earned $1000 in one week at one location, and $400 at another...

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from BobC:

I heard WOZ proto types earned $1000 in one week at one location, and $400 at another...

The first week/month or more of earnings are considered to be pretty meaningless by most ops, since generally any new game will do great right off the bat just because everyone wants to try it. The major question is whether people keep coming back, whether the game has "legs."

I still find it incredibly hard to believe that WOZ made $1k anywhere, first week or not. I have pins that get tons of play, often with multiple players, and still only make about 1/10th of that. I'm not convinced there's even enough time in the day to cram in enough WOZ plays to make that kind of money. Here's hoping, though!

#10 10 years ago

Buddy, thanks for sharing the info.

It's always interesting to see what games earn what kind of $$.

also, damn, i wish there was a location like your cinema ANYWHERE in Georgia...

#11 10 years ago

redemption, and sports (basketball and air hockey) still top earners though. $98/week for air hockey with little maintenance, that's a no brainer.

I'm curious how stuff earns so well in theaters, I would think most people buy tickets, get their concessions, and plop down in the theater. When do people have time to play games?

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I'm curious how stuff earns so well in theaters, I would think most people buy tickets, get their concessions, and plop down in the theater. When do people have time to play games?

Theater locations work because people drop their kids off, or the adult's movie starts/ends at different time than the kid's movie.

Time to kill = money.

#13 10 years ago

You have a ROCKY on location at .25/play and it only gets 11 plays a week?

I would put 10 times that in all by myself.

Is the Spiderman really at a quarter a credit? That's what the numbers say. What is Tron priced at? It doesn't divide evenly but I assume that is because of a "buy three credits get a slight discount" pricing.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from bobbyconover:

I still find it incredibly hard to believe that WOZ made $1k anywhere, first week or not. I have pins that get tons of play, often with multiple players, and still only make about 1/10th of that. I'm not convinced there's even enough time in the day to cram in enough WOZ plays to make that kind of money. Here's hoping, though!

So do I. It has to be something like $1.50/credit AND it's all pinball people travelling in specifically to see it. There is no way average people are putting that much into a pin for a credit. Every piece of common sense says that's not right.

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

Ok I wanted to share some real location earnings on some pins...

Thanks for sharing. Good to hear things are working for you. If your CPA hasn't asked about acquiring a game of his own yet, it shouldn't be long.

Couple of questions, if you don't mind. Can folks who don't have a movie ticket play the games? Some of the theaters out here allow you to play the games without seeing a movie. Also, have you ever tried charging more than a quarter per play? That seems awfully low. If that place was in my hood and you can play games without buying a movie ticket, I'd be all over it.

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from ChadTower:

So do I. It has to be something like $1.50/credit AND it's all pinball people travelling in specifically to see it. There is no way average people are putting that much into a pin for a credit. Every piece of common sense says that's not right.

It's not that far fetched. The place where I have games is open 12 hours a day, 364 days a year. At $1 a play and 4 minute average game time, that's plenty of time to make $1000 in a week.

Still, there are a couple of considerations. All new games make a lot in the first week. Even IJ4 got hammered when it was new. Doesn't matter. What it makes a month or so later is what really matters. Does it it have staying power. Secondly, never trust any audit you hear second hand. Pics or it didn't happen. Ops can be a nefarious bunch. One showing a week's worth of earnings publicly, like above, is unheard of. His earnings sheet is handwritten, but his post seems to support the sheet.

#17 10 years ago

Any reason why the driving games get way more play on the left side than the right? Is it just the placement or is it some brain thing (super shot was the complete opposite)? It's cool to see real time numbers on different games.

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from Max_Badazz:

Any reason why the driving games get way more play on the left side than the right? Is it just the placement or is it some brain thing (super shot was the complete opposite)? It's cool to see real time numbers on different games.

Maybe the right one has a stain on the seat. I bet it's something obvious like that side having the better monitor. Or that one is closer to the token machine.

Quoted from phishrace:

It's not that far fetched. The place where I have games is open 12 hours a day, 364 days a year. At $1 a play and 4 minute average game time, that's plenty of time to make $1000 in a week.
Still, there are a couple of considerations. All new games make a lot in the first week. Even IJ4 got hammered when it was new.

It's worth a look at the numbers themselves, I suppose, so we're all on the same page.

4 minute game time is 15 games an hour at the most.
12 hours a day x 15 games an hour = 180 plays a day at the most.
7 days a week x 180 plays a day = 1260 plays a week at the most.
$1 a credit x 1260 plays a week = $1260 a week at the most.
$1260 is assuming the game is in use 100% of the time for 12 hours a day, every day, with an average game time of 4 minutes.

We all know most arcades are empty in the mornings. The only way this number gets reached, IMO, is if the cost per credit is above a dollar or if the game time is much shorter than 4 minutes.

#19 10 years ago

Very interesting,. Thank you for sharing, and having nice pins on location!

VERY surprised to see a Rocky on location. Those are pretty darn hard to find.

Chris

#20 10 years ago

Thanks for sharing!

What sort of split do you have with the Theater owner? I assume the first column is quarters/tokens, the next column is dollar bills and the final column is the dollar amount total.

ps. If I were your accountant I'd tell you to sell everything and buy more "Slam-a-Winner" games!

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

If I were your accountant I'd tell you to sell everything and buy more "Slam-a-Winner" games!

Yeah thats crazy.... and they cost what, $3000? Half a new pinball and take up about 1/6 of the floor space... Probably just about never break down either.... rubber ball falling on table... lol- not much wear there...

It's nut watching kids playing those damn redemption machines.... maybe if pinballs spit out a few (nearly worthless) tickets they'd get more love

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

maybe if pinballs spit out a few (nearly worthless) tickets they'd get more love

Been tried. Didn't work.

Slam-a-Winner huh ? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

LTG : )

#23 10 years ago

Hey cool to see some numbers, thanks for the breakdown! Slam-a-winners are always getting played when I go to the arcade.

#24 10 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

What sort of split do you have with the Theater owner?

Buddy owns the theater too...haha

#25 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I wish I had pins to play on location near me.

me too, but at $20/week earnings, i don't wonder why i don't.

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from ChadTower:

You have a ROCKY on location at .25/play and it only gets 11 plays a week?
I would put 10 times that in all by myself.
Is the spiderman really at a quarter a credit? That's what the numbers say. What is Tron priced at? It doesn't divide evenly but I assume that is because of a "buy three credits get a slight discount" pricing.

Keep in mind that sometimes people put in too much money, or not enough money, so you can get an odd figure. Rocky might be at a quarter, but I'll bet Spiderman is at .75/play, three plays for $2.00. Same thing for Tron. Anything less than that and you are just subsidizing someone's entertainment costs.

I realize a dollar a play isn't popular among most Pinsiders, but clean, 100% working DMD games should be at a buck a play, or .75 at the very least for older DMD pins. Nothing wrong with operators making money operating pins.

#27 10 years ago

BarBer Cut game makes more money than anything you've ever seen.

@ $5 a play, it is not uncommon to haul $1500- 3000 out a week.

My friend James "King of Cranes" fills these with iPods and iPads and you can't believe what a cash cow they are.

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

me too, but at $20/week earnings, i don't wonder why i don't.

Yeah, you almost have to have a second revenue stream to operate an arcade anymore these days it seems, whether that be alcohol, pizza, pool hall, console game shop, antique store, etc. Seems like most of the people I know who have machines out on location like this do that part more as a labor of love these days...and God bless them for it, I say.

#29 10 years ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

Rocky might be at a quarter, but I'll bet spiderman is at .75/play, three plays for $2.00. Same thing for Tron. Anything less than that and you are just subsidizing someone's entertainment costs.

I agree logically but look at the numbers for Tron. $17 and 60 plays. Either it's set at a quarter or someone is raping the replay.

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from BobC:

I heard WOZ proto types earned $1000 in one week at one location, and $400 at another...

I would be more impressed if these WOZ protos were making "only" $1000 a MONTH, after three months.

#31 10 years ago
Quoted from ChadTower:

I agree logically but look at the numbers for Tron. $17 and 60 plays. Either it's set at a quarter or someone is raping the replay.

I thought his first column was for tokens/quarters, not plays, maybe not.

#32 10 years ago

Ah, I suppose that could be true, but I'm not sure why someone would record that. With a known token cost you could always calculate either (number of tokens) or (money represented by tokens) given the other number. Then again maybe he's just counting out the tokens and calculating the money after the fact. It does explain why my numbers were logically off.

#33 10 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

It's nut watching kids playing those damn redemption machines.... maybe if pinballs spit out a few (nearly worthless) tickets they'd get more love

Maybe a one-ball or bingo style.

The key to redemption is: 1) super easy to learn. 2) Even if you become proficient at the game, the house still has a profit edge.

Even a simple pinball game like Hook is still way too complicated for redemption.

People bag on redemption games but last time I was in tahoe, $20 in tokens was good for 2.5 hours of air hockey, video games and redemption at harrahs, and we got a little hello kitty for my niece out of it. We had a lot of fun teaming up on the games and trying to find the ones with the best payouts. I was crushing it on this game where you play a frog and try to smack bugs as they go by with your tongue. Very similar concept to the jump rope on Champion Pub.

#34 10 years ago
Quoted from ChadTower:

Ah, I suppose that could be true, but I'm not sure why someone would record that. With a known token cost you could always calculate either (number of tokens) or (money represented by tokens) given the other number. Then again maybe he's just counting out the tokens and calculating the money after the fact. It does explain why my numbers were logically off.

Many places give discounts when buying tokens in quantity. I've commonly seen 20% on $10 and 25% on $20

#35 10 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

redemption, and sports (basketball and air hockey) still top earners though. $98/week for air hockey with little maintenance, that's a no brainer.
I'm curious how stuff earns so well in theaters, I would think most people buy tickets, get their concessions, and plop down in the theater. When do people have time to play games?

People are always confused by what time a movie starts, granted back in the film days times had to be spaced 5 minutes apart like 7:00, 7:05, 7:10 to give the projectionist time to go start each movie in each auditorium and each film has different run times or how long the movie is. Often time parents will watch something different than kids and they have to wait until they get out of the other movie so they play to kill time. Now with digital we just push a single button so they can all start at 7 or 7:15 but they still end at different times.

#36 10 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Many places give discounts when buying tokens in quantity. I've commonly seen 20% on $10 and 25% on $20

True. So if we move that back to the WOZ example now we're talking potentially 25% *more* plays to reach that dollar figure.

I haven't seen any place with a discount on $10 in a long time. 100 tokens for $20 seems to be the norm now around here.

#37 10 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Thanks for sharing. Good to hear things are working for you. If your CPA hasn't asked about acquiring a game of his own yet, it shouldn't be long.
Couple of questions, if you don't mind. Can folks who don't have a movie ticket play the games? Some of the theaters out here allow you to play the games without seeing a movie. Also, have you ever tried charging more than a quarter per play? That seems awfully low. If that place was in my hood and you can play games without buying a movie ticket, I'd be all over it.

Yes they can and some do, why say no to any additional money stream. Some just come buy popcorn. We have a checker around the corner where you have to have a movie ticket to get in. He also helps by telling you where the auditorium is as the numbers on the door and little movie title card do not seem to be enough to let people know. The movies and arcade there do much better in Summer when the real blockbusters are out.

#38 10 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

Yes they can and some do, why say no to any additional money stream. Some just come buy popcorn. We have a checker around the corner where you have to have a movie ticket to get in. He also helps by telling you where the auditorium is as the numbers on the door and little movie title card do not seem to be enough to let people know. The movies and arcade there do much better in Summer when the real blockbusters are out.

I have been to three movie theaters in the past month. All three had a few games. Two of them have the games *past* the ticket checker. That has to seriously limit the amount of players.

#39 10 years ago

Here some more pics of the cinema and how the games and pins are laid out. You walk inside to purchase tickets so you do not have to be out in the cold or rain. I hate cinemas designed that way as it turns customers away, who wants to wait that way. Mom and dad can stand inside and give the kids some quarters to play and get them some peace in line or one can go to the concession line while the other buys tickets. The pins are located by themselves near the ATM and party room. The video games are lined around the wall and redemption games are all in same area where we have a small redemption area set up. We wanted to create a true out of home experience as you can stay hoe and watch movies so by having all these interactive games even pins the customers love it, its a main reason they choose to come to this cinema as they have other choices.

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#40 10 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

People are always confused by what time a movie starts, granted back in the film days times had to be spaced 5 minutes apart like 7:00, 7:05, 7:10 to give the projectionist time to go start each movie in each auditorium and each film has different run times or how long the movie is. Often time parents will watch something different than kids and they have to wait until they get out of the other movie so they play to kill time. Now with digital we just push a single button so they can all start at 7 or 7:15 but they still end at different times.

Buddy,
When we had the drive in open, someone actually asked me if we would be showing matinee's! I told them we did, but they might not be able to see it! As for owning the pins and location, do you still have to buy those tax stickers, like here in Ga.?

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

Yes they can and some do, why say no to any additional money stream.

Some theaters here in the bay area don't let you in the game room without a ticket. Most are in malls and they have 10 or more screens. I can see how kids would want to hang out there, despite having no money. The exception is the Cinemark chain (formerly Century). They typically have their game rooms located after the ticket booth, but before the ticket takers. Some of their locations don't though. On occasion (new game we really want to play), we've purchased tickets for the midnight showing of anything, played for a couple of hours, then asked nicely (and gotten) a refund.

Is that theater at a mall? Mall walk up traffic is huge.

#42 10 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

Here some more pics of the cinema and how the games and pins are laid out. .

Love it! Great colors too!

Nicer than any theater I visit here in Raleigh, nc.

#43 10 years ago

Is that a Gold Medal popper in the concession stand?

#44 10 years ago

How did he get a guy from 1985 to look at a WOZ? Amazing! woz.jpgwoz.jpg

#45 10 years ago
Quoted from ChadTower:

How did he get a guy from 1985 to look at a WOZ? Amazing!

LMFAO I was gonna say the same thing.

Somebody find that kid's flowbee and chuck it off TnT's roof.

p.s. they still make them.

http://www.flowbee.com/

#46 10 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

People are always confused by what time a movie starts, granted back in the film days times had to be spaced 5 minutes apart like 7:00, 7:05, 7:10 to give the projectionist time to go start each movie in each auditorium and each film has different run times or how long the movie is. Often time parents will watch something different than kids and they have to wait until they get out of the other movie so they play to kill time. Now with digital we just push a single button so they can all start at 7 or 7:15 but they still end at different times.

They also stagger start times to keep the concession and ticket lines reasonable and to give customers some scheduling flexibility.

#47 10 years ago
Quoted from PINBELL:

Buddy,
When we had the drive in open, someone actually asked me if we would be showing matinee's! I told them we did, but they might not be able to see it! As for owning the pins and location, do you still have to buy those tax stickers, like here in Ga.?

Thats funny if there was only a way to make that light stronger. I always feel like a vampire at the drive in as we can only show the movie at night and must be done before dawn. In deep Summer when it doesnt get dark until 9:30 here and its a long movie like POTC that movie doesnt end until 12:30 the second feature starts at 1am after change over and previews meaning its 3 to 3:30 am before we are done. It really messes with my sleep schedule. Somebody always forges to crank there car too and I have to stay awake to boost them off the lot. I still love the drive in however great memories here and we create many for other families. Check out https://www.facebook.com/centraldrivein?fref=ts

Thanks for looking,
Buddy

#48 10 years ago
Quoted from kingfishtr:

Is that a Gold Medal popper in the concession stand?

Yes! I used to use Creators but the last decade Gold Medal has been making fantastic machines right in Cincy.

#49 10 years ago

i wish we still had drive-in's around here...

#50 10 years ago
Quoted from ChadTower:

I agree logically but look at the numbers for Tron. $17 and 60 plays. Either it's set at a quarter or someone is raping the replay.

Sorry let me explain as I use an example of that sheet in other locations. I do not use tokens there as the place is secure with alarms and is in downtown freestanding location where the police check often so I use quarters. Tron had 60 quarters for 15 dollars plus 2 in the dollar bill validator for a total of 17 for the week. The week follows begins on Friday and ends on Thur as that is the traditional movie playing week. I have tried other Tron pins in other places and its just not the hit like IM or Big Buck Hunter was. Spiderman does well but I just put Rocky in for an experiment to see how an older pin would do since Popeye often beats Tron. Rocky was on the truck from the Louisville KY show again a big thanks to Scooter and his friend for helping me load back up from the show so I just dropped it off to see how it would do and thats why I have it for sale, it does not earn well nor did I expect it too but Stallone has had recent hits again so he is still known.

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