(Topic ID: 95116)

Pinball Circus to be "remade"

By Rockytop

7 years ago


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#51 7 years ago

This is great news, Ive been looking for a while, my last deal fell through.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtb-the-pinball-circus

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Williams was figuring around $12K back then, so I don't think you'll see $8K or less.

The German distributor Nova killed production by stating that they would NOT pay the $1,000 more for Pinball Circus over the usual cost of a B/W pin.

In 1993, that would have put Circus in the $4k range.

#53 7 years ago

317582488_826c7183c3_o.jpg

#54 7 years ago

317582489_91322a7c90_o.jpg

#55 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd be amazed if 100 of these are sold....

+1

I was thinking waayyyyy less than that.

#56 7 years ago

For the upcoming 3rd Issue of Pinball Magazine, of which the cover story will focus on Python Anghelo, I've spoken with several people who were involved in the developement of the original game. The way it was told to me, and this will obviously be in the magazine in more detailed form, from the top of my head: one of the games was put on test together with a WCS. After a few weeks it turned out that WCS earned about $ 10.00, or $ 15.00, a week more than TPC, yet the price of TPC would be a bit higher than standard games. Williams felt that it made no sense to produce a game that would cost more and earn less, as operators would probably not be interested. So the project was cancelled.

The game in PHOF is apparently not complete as some features are missing, or never implemented. I have yet to see if there are any differences between the two existing games. Obviously this will be a very interesting project. Python was a firm believer that pinball needed to develop more outside of the box and TPC would be the future. Now we'll get to see how that will turn out. Best of luck to CMC with this project!

#57 7 years ago

I can't see this being a success, but maybe I'll be wrong. I found it to be cool, but really it is just a novelty game with no real Ruleset.

#58 7 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

This is great news, Ive been looking for a while, my last deal fell through.

I was sad that didn't work out for you.

Maybe next time.

LTG : )™

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The German distributor Nova killed production by stating that they would NOT pay the $1,000 more for Pinball Circus over the usual cost of a B/W pin.

In 1993, that would have put Circus in the $4k range.

Plus what ever Nova's mark up was. They wouldn't pay more than $1K over their cost. Doesn't really say what it would have been priced at.

And I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a hand written card in a machine. Especially one that says only two were made. We do know there were more. One for sure went to Germany and disappeared.

And pieces of others have popped up.

LTG : )™
Disclaimer : I hope that those that one one can get one and at a good price.

22
#60 7 years ago

Surprised at the negativity considering Pinball Circus is what most people often ask for: Original unlicensed theme & something totally unique. Maybe we've just hit collective burn-out or something....I feel like a year or two ago, people would be like "HOLY SHIT, they're FINALLY making Pinball Circus! Sign me up!"

Mark me "interested"...of course I want to hear about the production gameplan & pricing first.

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Surprised at the negativity considering Pinball Circus is what most people often ask for: .

Really?
I've been on this site a few months and every new project gets negativity!
I dont understand it but people seem to want the projects to fail so they can say I told you so

#62 7 years ago

How far along are they? If they are at square one or close to it, it could be two or three years before we see something, minimum.

They might add what needs to be added and build a great game, maybe it'll be more exciting when we know something, anything. Otherwise, let me know in 3 years when something might ship.

#63 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

And I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a hand written card in a machine. Especially one that says only two were made. We do know there were more. One for sure went to Germany and disappeared.

Or not:

We asked Ken Fedesna, former Executive VP/General Manager over Williams/Bally/Midway from 1988 until the close of pinball production in 1999, if he could clarify how many were made. He replies:

I looked through my Operation Meeting notes from 1992, 1993, and 1994 concerning Pinball Circus, and found that we only built 2 Engineering prototypes total. One was sent to test in Germany, but it was returned. Not sure whether it is the one Steve Kordek had that is now in Vegas, or the other one, but my notes clearly indicate that only 2 were ever built.

#64 7 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

For the upcoming 3rd Issue of Pinball Magazine, of which the cover story will focus on Python Anghelo, I've spoken with several people who were involved in the developement of the original game. The way it was told to me, and this will obviously be in the magazine in more detailed form, from the top of my head: one of the games was put on test together with a WCS. After a few weeks it turned out that WCS earned about $ 10.00, or $ 15.00, a week more than TPC, yet the price of TPC would be a bit higher than standard games. Williams felt that it made no sense to produce a game that would cost more and earn less, as operators would probably not be interested. So the project was cancelled.
The game in PHOF is apparently not complete as some features are missing, or never implemented. I have yet to see if there are any differences between the two existing games. Obviously this will be a very interesting project. Python was a firm believer that pinball needed to develop more outside of the box and TPC would be the future. Now we'll get to see how that will turn out. Best of luck to CMC with this project!

One of the parts not in the phof game is the python kick back. I had it in my pinball circus parts that I sold. Ill post pictures of it.

#65 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Or not:
We asked Ken Fedesna, former Executive VP/General Manager over Williams/Bally/Midway from 1988 until the close of pinball production in 1999, if he could clarify how many were made. He replies:
I looked through my Operation Meeting notes from 1992, 1993, and 1994 concerning Pinball Circus, and found that we only built 2 Engineering prototypes total. One was sent to test in Germany, but it was returned. Not sure whether it is the one Steve Kordek had that is now in Vegas, or the other one, but my notes clearly indicate that only 2 were ever built.

I had parts to start a third game, back box board, all the upper play fields, elephant, clown face and hands, the hanging girl, the spinning girl, the python kick back. So if two were made I had parts to start a third.

#66 7 years ago

There were original parts from BW made for Pinball Circus that came down here to Australia when Ballypinball had the license.

I remember seeing boxes of the red ringmaster jacket bust and the clown face and hands.

15
#67 7 years ago

This is just some of the parts I had. Ill have to look for the back box board and play field pics

image-734.jpgimage-910.jpgimage-233.jpgimage-610.jpgimage-535.jpgimage-117.jpgimage-613.jpgimage-394.jpgimage-53.jpg

#68 7 years ago

The python kick back isn't in either game I'm told.

#69 7 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Oh great................ Pinball Circus VE
Now all the original Pinball Circus' just plunged in value.

Now the originals will be more affordable. Kinda doubt the two people that own one will sell though.

#70 7 years ago

It might make a good route pin beside a WOZ, something unseen (more or less) before. I can't imagine who would be seriously purchasing this for the home though, unless it was dirt cheap, which it won't be (can't be).

Let's just say this thing better spit some heavy amounts of tickets after it's done, that's about the only replay value any 6 year old gunning for the stick off gum is going come back to this for.

I love Python's work, and maybe if this was made as a short run novelty release, there might be enough interest.

#71 7 years ago

There's 21 people willing to pay $17k each and wait three plus years for a jpop game. So if they do it along those parameters there should be buyers.

#72 7 years ago

I guess there'll be a few very rich pinball collectors who don't care about the money and will buy one just because it's beautiful, can't easily be found (even after the remake(?!)) and like it in their collection.
I could figure I might even do that myself if I was a (multi)millionaire.

#73 7 years ago

Clowns scare the crap out of me. There is no way I would have this in my house.

#74 7 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

Clowns scare the crap out of me. There is no way I would have this in my house.

Dont look at this thread then.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtb-hurricane-ramps-2

#75 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I was sad that didn't work out for you.
Maybe next time.
LTG : )™

Hey Lloyd, I know you had one of these at your place for a while before it ended up at Tim's. Did you have it on coin play? Did it make good money while you had it?

I'm also surprised at the negativity toward this announcement. I would think a lot of folks would be interested in buying one of these, assuming they don't price them at 20k or something crazy like that...

#76 7 years ago

I think you'll see a lot less/ more negativity when they announce the price, that's going to be the make it or break it for most people.

#77 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

How far along are they? If they are at square one or close to it, it could be two or three years before we see something, minimum.

The team had a full set of whitewoods (all signed by Python) with 1 playfield fully populated. There's definitely a lot to be done, but I wouldn't call it square one.

The announcement was at the end of a custom game (both pin and vid) panel during the SFGE. The pinball part of the panel also showed off both P-ROC boards and a PinHeck board (the board in AMH), some 3D printed parts, and some NOS Pinball Circus parts.

It was pretty clear that Circus is a passion project for the team. They were all close with Python and even brought Python's Animal muppet to sit on the panel.

Post edited by pinlynx: I was informed that the PinHeck board was a production board and not a prototype.

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from mario_1_up:

They are giong to have to keep the cost down for them to sell any. If its set at $8000 you would be hard pressed to find many buyer's at that price for a novelty game. I would hope they could get it down to around 4-5 grand.

Most of you guys have a collector mentality. Pinball was always designed to be an on-location money maker, and something like this would make more sense in an arcade than at a home. As PC would have more casual/redemption customer attraction it may do just fine on location at whatever price it is made, especially if it spits out tickets.

#79 7 years ago

Python was one of the biggest innovators in pinball art & design, no doubt. People either love or hate his work, but they all solidly agree on one thing; he took risks and make games unlike anything else out there.

Sure they were hit or miss, but better to have a Pinbot and a BBBB under your belt than a whole bunch of safe, mediocre games. I'd love to see some new modern original art games, packaged with truly unique designs and interesting new game play objects that just flip pinball on its head. This is the closest thing we can get to that in the modern age of movie-themed pins. I'm happy they're remaking this, and I'd love to actually play one some day.

I just picked up a beater Comet to restore, and plan to work exclusively on Python games as my weeknight hobby. I hope to find a Bad Cats as the next one.

#80 7 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

Possibly a redemption game like BBB was going to be.

all of the capcom games had redemption roms.

#81 7 years ago

Im in for one! If they make sure each level contain good rule sets, combined with, if you miss you go back down to the beginning, Im sure there will be enough people to buy to make this thing fly. I must say as much as a novelty that this is, when I played a few months back in Vegas there is a certain Je ne sais crois or what I like to call sphincter factor that grows (or tightens) as you start to get to the upper level! Bring it on! Nice to have difference in a collection!

#82 7 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Hey Lloyd, I know you had one of these at your place for a while before it ended up at Tim's. Did you have it on coin play?

Steve Kordek loaned it to me for the Spring 2006 Pinball Circus, which was a one day event at that time.

He loaned it for one day only. It was on free play that day.

LTG : )™
Disclaimer : Greg Kemnitz, Todd Andersen, Martin Ayub, and I totally shopped it Saturday night finishing about 6 the next morning. Got everything working. Then wrapped it up, Greg picked it up later that afternoon and stored it until August when he took it to Tim.

And people were mad they couldn't play it the next day, but it was only loaned to me for one day.

13
#83 7 years ago

Trust me. Everyone behind this could care less about the numbers. BoM. Retail cost. None of it matters to them. It's being done out of passion and finishing out a great mans final wish. Everyone will get a chance to finally play one of these without planning a major vacation. That's what matters. Not weither or not you can afford to put it in the corner of your house to be played twice a year. And no you won't be waiting 3 years either

-Jim

#84 7 years ago

Great news Jim, and how do we get on the "list" Im a confirmed self masochist and love to gamble!

11
#85 7 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

It's being done out of passion and finishing out a great mans final wish.

I just wish Python lived to see it.

LTG : (

#86 7 years ago

I would LOVE to get a pinball circus. Probably will be far out of my price range, but hopefully someone local gets one. I have always pumped 20-40 bucks in when I have gone to the PHOF, and would love the chance to play one that was 100% complete.

#87 7 years ago

It sounds like the plan is to do way more with it than just get the ball through the clown's teeth. This would be finishing Python's vision instead of just replicating the existing unfinished game.

It would be really cool to play it again.

-c

#88 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I just wish Python lived to see it.
LTG : (

With you 100% on that one Loyld.

-Jim

#89 7 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Am I missing something? This is the game that's at Pinball Hall of Fame, right? It was certainly a cool novelty, but I put it more in the vein of a rube goldburg machine (think of the board game mousetrap). It was fun trying to get the ball to the top, but it is so linear (unless there was other stuff to do I didn't know about) and frankly got old pretty quick once the gimmick wore off. I can't see this being remade in any quantity at all. I wouldn't put one in my gameroom for free since it would take up space for other games that are more "real" pinball.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way...

#90 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I just wish Python lived to see it.

I've seen a photo with the whitewoods, Python, the Circus Maximus team, and a few other stalwarts from the pinball community. Python passed away knowing that the project was well on its way and in good hands.

#91 7 years ago
Quoted from scylla:

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way...

To each his own once again and again. I found it quite fun trying to keep the ball up in fact i like to try to keep everything up! I do have to say its kinda the same reason I like Bansai Run as well. If they do this right and make each level challenging with deep rules and more to do combined with the fact you can drop back down to the bottom floor I truly think it will be worth owning!

#92 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Steve Kordek loaned it to me for the Spring 2006 Pinball Circus, which was a one day event at that time.
He loaned it for one day only. It was on free play that day.
LTG : )™
Disclaimer : Greg Kemnitz, Todd Andersen, Martin Ayub, and I totally shopped it Saturday night finishing about 6 the next morning. Got everything working. Then wrapped it up, Greg picked it up later that afternoon and stored it until August when he took it to Tim.
And people were mad they couldn't play it the next day, but it was only loaned to me for one day.

Oh, my bad. I was thinking you got to keep it for a couple of weeks. It would have been interesting to hear how much it took in, I personally found it very addictive the once or twice I got to play one of them.

#93 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Plus what ever Nova's mark up was. They wouldn't pay more than $1K over their cost. Doesn't really say what it would have been priced at.
And I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a hand written card in a machine. Especially one that says only two were made. We do know there were more. One for sure went to Germany and disappeared.
And pieces of others have popped up.
LTG : )™
Disclaimer : I hope that those that one one can get one and at a good price.

Regarding pricing, I was one of those guys that had to try and sell pinball to operators. Let me tell you, more often than not it was a hard sell, even when they were $2495 new. Once they crossed $3000 that was the end. Pinball Circus would have had to have had very strong, long, and consistent collection numbers from reputable sources (ie, not the BS numbers factories liked to give us) before most guys would have bought these. You have to remember that Williams were the kings of pinball, even in the 80's, so we all looked to them to innovate and they really did try! But with the exception of Pinball 2000, they all pretty much flopped, and all of us took it on the chin. Varkon's went for $200 after it failed. Basically, you couldn't give any of the WMS experiments away after they flopped. Fast forward to Pinball Circus. There is no way, given those test numbers, that WMS would ever have taken a chance like that, especially in a very poor pinball market. There was virtually no home market then....which is why I laugh and shake my head at all the ridiculous HUO ads for games in the 80's and early 90's that I and anyone else in the biz then know aren't....so the operator was the only outlet during this time. And when Pinball Circus was made, most operators were hurting big time, still waiting for the next high earning Street Fighter game that ultimately never came. Had Pin Circus come out, we would have ended up offering one of those one year interest free finance deals just to get rid of them, once reports came back that earnings were so so. And WMS would likely had to have closed them out at a huge discount. They had too much history behind them to release this game, though I too would have loved to have seen it happen. Timing is, and was, everything. I felt bad when Data East or someone else came out with a truly great game, but because another game was earning well at the time, the operator would go for the proven game instead. There were too many pins being made then. Had Pin Circus come out in the 80's, I think it would have sold well, plus operators had more money then to absorb a lower earning game.

#94 7 years ago

I have always been fascinated by this game and would love to have one. This announcement is great news

#95 7 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

I would LOVE to get a Pinball Circus. Probably will be far out of my price range, but hopefully someone local gets one.

+1
I think the intricate design of the playfield, how everything fits together, and how it all rises so high up is genius. It's a pure wondrous joy to watch everything imo.

#96 7 years ago

Depending on the price point, I would be very tempted to get one. It's such a cool novelty!

Marcus

#97 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I just wish Python lived to see it.
LTG : (

I'm sure he's watching from above.....or below (cue evil clown laugh).

#98 7 years ago

Good news! I'm glad that people who want a chance to own this game will now have a chance to pick it up. I hope to be able to play it more often myself, and in good working condition as well!

#99 7 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

And PPS is not involved with this ?
viperrwk

I'll answer my own question:

https://www.google.com/patents/US5632482

Interesting history based on the legal events.

Draw your own conclusions.

viperrwk

#100 7 years ago
Quoted from sven:

I guess there'll be a few very rich pinball collectors who don't care about the money and will buy one just because it's beautiful, can't easily be found (even after the remake(?!)) and like it in their collection.

Exactly!

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