How about some shirt sizes for us big guys. I need a 5x.

Thanks
Dougram69

I want in. I will not be at the Expo. My qualifications are simple. I dedicated. I colored Popeye.

I'm guessing the "they" is also different from whoever runs pinballshirts.com now, than before.

I had to file a PayPal claim for a $91.00 order that never got fulfilled.

When we talked at the SFGE, you mentioned that the sample games were not going to be different than the production games.

So, what is the incentive?

You also mentioned that this game will be ran almost indefinitely.

So once again, what is the incentive?

Has Circus Maximus decided to now make the 12 sample games different than the production games?

The 12 sample games are going to be different as they will each have different features which we will be testing. In addition to that, the production is NOT guaranteed, if we don't go into full production then the 2 whitewoods and 12 sample games will be it.

Pinball Inc. nor Python's Pinball Circus has absolutely NOTHING to do with pinballshirts.com. This is a example as why we don't use Pinside for updates. Somehow this site will take an innocuous update or thread and turn it into some kind of drama that has nothing to do with the subject matter.

Sample games usually have just little differences such as artwork that was ultimately not chosen or different fonts on the inserts or something else entirely. Surely you've seen posts about sample games before. They are usually in higher end collections since they are more sought after.

A game.

I for one think it is awesome what you are doing, this sample drawing and in general what you are doing. Keep up the fantastic work.

Higher end collections? Not really, usually higher end collections are strictly about condition. Samples and prototypes come up randomly, like the WPC Dr Dudes that has been in the forums lately. Prototypes are worth more if there is something that sets it apart AND it is just as playable. Think the third magnet on TZ. They left it in later software versions. On the other hand the prototype TMNT has different hardware and could only use the software that comes with it which would be limited. FH is another where the really early games had a System 11 sound board. A lot of people don't want it because you cannot put later software on it unless you converted it to a WPC sound board.

Oh absolutely, AND rarity. I guess I've just seen a lot of posts about people restoring protos and samples so that's where I got that.

I think we can both agree that is not going to be an issue on this particular case.

Either way, cool promotion. Thanks Pinball Circus team.

No production? Was this even an option?

Beyond the 12 samples, yes. The "promise" to Python was to fulfill his desire to have 12 sample games made. From those we were to determine if production is deemed. Therefore when we build the game that is true to Python as the second whitewood and 12 sample games will be it is at that time we will determine if the masses desire the game. We truly believe they will as the second game will be drastically different than the first. It will have significant changes to it that we and Python worked on during his last months. Many of those changes will be discussed during the seminar next week.

That would depend on which samples the owners get and how different they are. See qouted post below. Samples will be different, if they are different enough and not supported by later software (if there is) in the long term they might be less desirable. On the other hand it might be the only chance to ever own the machine so these will have no problem selling.

It's a little bit of news that production is iffy. I bought merch and supported the project thinking I was supporting getting these things designed and to production.

Is all the money raised going toward funding sample games for the team, or are those people receiving them paying a price for the machine above the money that is donated/raised?

Apologies if this has been asked/answered before, I just want to have clarity for myself.

Looking forward to the seminar at Expo. However, with the Pinball Life party, some of us may have to watch a recording or read the Cliff's Notes version here.

Worst timing ever for this seminar!

Yeah, I feel bad for anyone who's scheduled for Friday afternoon, a lot of people who would otherwise be interested will be at Terry's. I know I will be!

What would cause production to not happen?

Start up capital, perhaps? Pre-orders would solve that problem, but that ship has sailed.

It sounds like Pinball Inc. only has enough capital to make the 12 samples and that's it.

You just mentioned that over 100 people tried to buy the 12 samples, so it's obvious that demand is there.

True, but those 12 games are going to be super duper exclusive and worth a lot of money so there are at least 100 people that want to buy. If they announced a full unlimited production run those same 100 people may have no or reduced interest.

This is exactly why I thought that not having an LE version sucked.

I wonder how all of the people that down voted me for that comment feel now.

No, if you've payed close attention to the wording and presentations... this has always been the theme. Complete the game.. make the samples... and actual 'production' was TBD based on the feasibility. They committed to finish the game, not necessarily get it mass produced.

Probably about the same.

who gives a shit if you have an LE version or not. It's not about value, it's about being able to own the game. This is an awesome unique game, and the fact that there is a chance that we can actually own it, without having to shell out 25k + is fantastic. Beyond that, who cares. If you like the game, buy one. If you are looking at it as an investment, go shop at JJP/sterns LE's and hope your 2% chance pays off.

Highly skeptical that this game will actually be made beyond the initial prototypes.
Even if there are 12 machines made, that is more of a testament as a project, and in that I give a respectful nod.
Feasibility beyond that seems unlikely, at least at the current time, because there just is not enough overall interest by collectors.
It was a curiosity for sure in terms of development during the original time, and actually played quite well with its initial software, but this does not constitute shelling out $25k or even 15k for that matter.

Agreed. I just want to play it! And having it as a part of a collection that family and friends can come over and see would be amazing.

Once again Mike you prove to us that Pinside is NOT an appropriate venue to post any updates about our progress. Pointless judgmental responses based on nothing more than self speculation is non productive and a waist time which we can spend working on a game. If you want to take what we say and parse every word to come up with senseless responses then we have no time for it. You don't run our business and it's no business of yours how we do run our business. We make our decisions based on what we want to do not what you want us to do. Obviously you completely miss the point as to why we are doing this, it is a PROMISE that we made to a dying man, not a promise that we made to you.

If only 12 will be made, it's definitely all about value!!!

Yes, all about value!

It's also contradictive to what Python wanted.

This might explain why a price was never mentioned.

No disrespect James. We just need clarity at this point.

Too much contradiction.

Hopefully your speech at Expo will clear up these ambiguities.

If you bought something then you received something. This is not a Magic Girl situation where we are taking peoples money up front and they get nothing in return. We are raising funds by selling parts and other merchandise. The buyer is getting what they are paying for right then and there.

Twelve games or not, I still wish your company success on the project.

There is no contradiction other that your own self manifested contradiction. We've been very clear all along what we're doing.

Mike, you don't have a clue what Python wanted. Were you there the day before he died? Were you there when he made me promise him to finish this project? You're way out of line.

Why do you feel you are owed clarity? Did you invest in this project or pre-order?

Python hated high priced games, that's no secret.

That's the only point I was trying to make.

I get that, but is the money going to fund the sample games for the team members and the giveaways?

I'm not against that, I just want to know. People should get some reward for working hard on it, but I doubt I would have opened my wallet as easy if that's the case. If production is a secondary to getting your own games paid for, just be on the level about that.

Well, this has escalated quickly...

This was public announcement. Not something done underground for three years and then unveiled.

Myself and others have money in hand and just want an update.

Update? Whitewood #1 at Expo. Whitewood #2 and more complete software still a ways out. 12 sample games to be made. Possible production with pricing after all that. What more are you expecting? Or what am I missing?

I think people are all thinking what Wolfmarsh is saying. If they paid for shirts or other items with the hopes of their money going toward non-prototype machines, why does it look like there is a chance that their money will instead be going toward building machines for the personal collections of the ones building them?

I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!

In hindsight, this project should have never been announced until after the 12 (personal) prototypes had been built.

I'm sure things will be much clearer after Expo. Plenty of opportunities for people to ask questions face to face.

The team will also have a MUCH better idea of how interested people are in purchasing a machine.

I don't think it is all about value. I'd buy one regardless of the number due to the unique game play. I'd put it next to my Varkon.

Meh. I respect what pbl is doing. I haven't been following the project... appreciate the info. Irdk, what mike expectations where. I have money to spend is a dumb argument for being an ass to people.

If you bought a t-shirt you got a shirt. Not a stake in the company.

To the best of my knowledge no one has put down pre-order dollars. I really don't get why we're owed anything here.

If I was making a small run game, and said "we're gonna make 12, we know we can handle that, beyond that we cannot promise anything" I'd feel like I was just being honest and realistic. Sounds utterly reasonable to me.

If you do take pre-orders then I do think you owe answers. That seems fair. But otherwise just run your company as you see fit. It's cool to let people see what you're up to, but you don't have to do anything really.

I think it's awesome that they were able to work with Python at the end, made him a promise, and are working really hard to make good on it. Expecting more than that seems unreasonable.

If you paid for a shirt expecting a pinball machine… well then I've been buying my shirts at the wrong places!

I don't see a problem with the people that worked on the project getting the first games. They should. They are working hard to make this project happen and trying to do it at a very affordable price point. Kudos to them and they should have the prototypes. it's not about the value. It's about getting a game for a project you are working on. Bally williams did it back in the day, and nobody gave a shit on what they might be worth somewhere else.

I've talked with python extensively on numerous occasions. If they can make this happen, and way less than Stern and JJP ask, i'll be happy as shit. I don't give a shit what anyone else gets, as long as I can buy mine.

I don't know if you really want a proto. Each one is testing some aspect of the game, to see if it should be in the final design or not. Kinda like DE did with king kong. Some had those stupidly large flippers on them. Would you really want a concept that just doesn't translate well in the game on your game? You are taking a chance on what you get for proto. Only reason I wanted a proto to to make sure I get a game.

I agree as I could not pass up on seeing Sven in person. Hope someone will have a recording of it.

Respectfully, there are a lot of things that go on behind the pinball curtain that are never posted on Pinside.

Some of these things date back to IPB.

With respect to those in the industry, both past and present, none of these things will ever be posted by me on Pinside.

I sincerely wish Pinball Inc. success on this project, production or not.

Ha! Made my day....

After the 12 are made, if you dont want to make anymore sell the rights to another company to produce them.

Just not to PPS P L E A S E......