How can Melissa do that?

Exactly. The easy mode is there to help you make the shot. But the sensor is clearly not positioned to award trickling down from the pops. The whole point of adding the second switch was to let them sense which direction the ball went through

Okay..that there..not okay. What's left to replace at this point??

I've noticed a lot of loops to the left side that the posts fire and miss, letting the ball continue on the orbit instead if dropping into the pops. Posts work just fine and don't bind, but they don't seem to have any/very little 'hold in up position' time. Most of the fast orbits seem to get caught, but a medium roller will fire and drop the post before the ball gets there allowing it to orbit to the right.

Before I swapped all the boards under the playfield, the first controller box, the backbox computer, and the cables the issue was that it would lock-up on boot. Black screen and GI's only. This was not the usual occasional black screen issue that is common, it was more serious. Then they sent all the new stuff that I installed and it was playable for a couple days. It locked up on a customer and upon reboot I got the volume flickering. I have spent countless hours trying to rule out parts since I have two to three of just about everything. Oddly I narrowed it down to the RAM or SSD (so I thought). They sent me a whole new motherboard (that would make three at this point). But the flickering remained. So I did not, in fact, narrow it down.

I tried swapping the Audio Amplifier board this morning and noticed they forgot to install the connector cable in the new box. Using the old board with the old cable did not work for the flickering, but it cleared up a nasty crackle in the speakers while it attempts to boot. Next I tried the old router box (that is what I am calling it) that is screwed to the bottom of the cabinet- no change. I also have 3 controller boxes that I have swapped and none change the status.

I found that the wires in the connector that come from the tilt mech were never really crimped properly and after plugging and unplugging a handful of times they just fell out. So I fixed that, but I was not expecting it to do anything for the problem at hand.

I'm going to be going through the 2 wire harnesses next to see if there are any loose/poorly crimped wires.

The response from Melissa was petty at best. It was the quickest email I have ever received from them and not even something like, "sorry you have had such a poor experience." Just a few quick sentences to wash her hands of the situation.

I have yet to hear back from PB yet, but it has only been a few days since I told them the newest part didn't help. It was just Friday. I am confident they will respond, but I am not feeling confident that they actually know what is going on. Seems like they are just throwing parts at an unknown.

To be continued....

EDIT : to answer your question directly, the only part not replaced other than the cabinet and playfield and mechs is the power supply.

Hey there - try tightening the screws on the non-clicking one. I did break the target to Left of reverso ramp, on the new targets PBros sent me all targets are held tight by little nuts (pictured) - maybe try adding these to targets, also open a ticket with PBros if you broke a target they should send you the new kit

2022-05-2316.15.446684420851018325939.jpg

Yeesh this sounds like a mess, sorry youre going through this brotha

Could a faulty power supply not have a hand in all that other weirdness? Seems like the only common denominator left..

I find it hard to believe it would be that, but who knows. They asked me to try and "rebuild the machine" using a USB to interrupt the booting and to factory reinstall the software, but not even that works. It does not interrupt the boot. I can manually interrupt by pressing F8 and using the prompt to boot from USB, but that does not work either.

Outer loops do feed to the pops with the up posts whrn loops are not being used in a mode but yes it’s random if it feeds the lane afaict. I’d love to know how people reliably achieve the chest burster life cycle shot

Also, Good to know the super jackpot loop shot missed isn't just me When you nail it and it doesnt count, its a real bummer !! ha ha

This is a reason why i will not yet own a PB alien. I do not understand how there can be games going out that work close to 100% and then absolute bricks like this. I DON'T think this is, or should be part of the n.i.b. pinball experience. Damnnn you Andrew (it's all his fault)

Ok explain this. The sensor is also used to sense the ball rolling down the lane for a right magnet helper grab to assist a hyper sleep lock shot, except it doesn’t always grab it because again if it rolls on the lhs of the lane it isn’t detected. How can that be correct? The sensor needs moving to be in the center of the lane and alittle lower down or they should have used an opto for the lane switch

Hey All, I’ve been off pinside for a hot minute but trying to see if anyone got some updates on LVs coming into the US.
I paid in full in December with “shipping in mid January” and since then my last update is “on a container” 4/22.
I have reached back out to Melissa but didn’t know if anyone in here had more updated data.

Oh wow, that's really not on. I know PB support has been generally great, but seriously - almost a year on and no working machine, not to mention the money spent on the thing, the countless hours it must have taken swapping all these parts out and the frustration involved... I know a refund/return must be the absolute last resort for a pinball company, what with all the hassle of shipping a single unit. But at some point enough is enough and this far into it, logistics be damned and I'm disappointed that you haven't just been offered a new machine.

with such a well documented failure case going here what is Pbros saying about it calling it a day, shipping you a new machine.. at this point they are almost if not upside down o

looks like an all new spacer kit on these as well...

All new space kit on these targets too... Hmmm... where is my upgrade?

totally agree at this point PBros is upside down on profit, now just do the right thing and get this man a new machine.

I am waiting for a reply from PB on this. I asked for a new machine or a refund. I have the ability to professionally pallet wrap and send everything back to Cointaker. They can spend time helping Cointaker fixing it with all of the spare parts. Melissa can then gain an education in helping others fix the game and not brushing off her customers (or learn what its like to spend countless hours f'ng with a machine that will not work for some reason). It's a win for everyone.

In the meantime there are a couple people throwing me advise via DM that I am actively trying. Thanks to this forum we have a community of help.

To be fair, while there are genuine issues, ones such as this are not that common. I personally would have an issue with a game that basically hasn't worked for a year and probably would have demanded a refund by now. As great as their customer service has been, this is not cool. I am equally disturbed by CT's response to this as well but not really sure what they can do given the way this whole thing is set up. Someone should be sending a tech out to figure out what is actually wrong with it.

It's not known if they've had any voltages checked, or try booting the PC without anything connected to it to check what it sees, etc, but all of that depends on his own technical skills.

They could do those things before it's shipped out as well. But i agree, it's way past that point and they should send someone over to his house. Cointaker definitely know of a pinhead that logistically makes sense and they trust tech wise... throw him a lil $$ and get this guy's pin working already! Poor dude! Btw, i think he's gone above and beyond what is expected of a paying costumer.

They can test all the electronics they want but at the end of the day they cant 'test play' every machine before it leaves the factory, peoples playfields would have dimples etc. customers want the first play and wouldnt stand for it. Youve never had issues with a brand new car before?

They definitely test play them before they leave the factory. Just check the audits. Do you really think you're the very first person to start or drive a car if you buy it new? And what happens when you have issues with a brand new car? You take it back to the dealer and they make it right. Or they don't sell any more new cars. Terrible analogy if you think there's nothing PB should or could do.

They have to drive new cars onto a truck, onto a lot that I drive it off of and they still have issues within 2 weeks. Can you imagine the compalints youd see on here if somebody who wanted to put a playfield protector on before play 1 saw dimpling and signs of play on their brand NIB machine?! It would be crazy to think they are play testing every new machine before it leaves the favtory. The above complaint seems to imply it played well for two weeks and the became a brick, also not sure how they would 'test' for that.

I would take PBros customer service over Chevy customer service any day of the week

Not if you were in my drivers seat.

By the way most of the companies do play test the games. If you look there usually are dimples on the playfield when they arrive. There are definitely pictures and video of Spooky employees play testing. I have seen pics of Stern play testers too. My Alien had dimples when it arrived.

I am not looking to argue, just pointing out something I know to be true.

Responding to service tickets is great, I give PB all the credit in the world for responding. Blindly sending out parts just to make people happy and string things along is not really customer service. Understanding the nature of the problem and resolving it swiftly and accurately is good customer service.

There absolutely is dimples and games played already on nib machines. Dunno why you think otherwise or why you're attempting to complare Chevy with PB. Weird flex, but ok!

Mine did not, and neither did my R&M. I can tell you for certain that not all games get play tested simply based on some of the issues that you see out of the box. They may play test a few here and there randomly, but I think the majority just get powered up and that's about it.

Ugh! Pinside

Both my Alien and R+M did... LOL, but I imagine there is a mix based on timing of current issues, production time lines, etc. I suppose there is no way every single game can be tested when rushing production.

Timely responses are great - it gives you confidence that someone is actively trying to help. However, ultimately the goal is to keep the customer happy, and spending hours upon hours switching out every box/part/cable in the machine is going to get old *really* fast. If you replaced all those things and after all that it's still not working there really should be other arrangements made, ie refund or exchange. These are very expensive machines, you really don't want one sitting around redundant for too long.

As far as testing goes - i imagine it is done, it has to be. But there's probably a very simple checklist of what they need to test to pass it suitable for packing/delivery. I don't think they have someone rigorously playing it, testing modes and functionality - it would be more like:

- Game switches on and boots successfully
- Ball is fed into trough and launches
- Flippers work
- Coils fire, switches activate

A few ticks on a sheet, and done.

Some machines get a further test before delivery though, eg. from the distributor. My new Sterns usually have a few dimples and swirl marks where they have opened it up and played it, and it comes delivered unpacked and set up. Do I care? Hell no man - I would much rather they did that for me.

I am curious really if you have replaced 100% of the parts in the game? What is there left to swap out?

Have any electrical issues been discarded? Is everything grounded correctly?

The machine!

According to PB they are hell bent that it's a connection issue. Grounding has never come up. That's a legitimate question. The ground braid seems to be connected properly. The boards are not like old school Bally, Williams, Gottlieb and Stern, but the screws apparently act as ground on most of the boards.

I have been trying to rule out faulty soldering connections that could cause shorts or possible no connection at all. My 8 year old daughter has been learning to solder and does a cleaner job.

This is just some of the handy work. The pins were left long on many of the solder points. I was thinking maybe they were making a connection to the box since they were almost as long as the standoffs. I cut them as they should be, before reinstalling.

PXL_20220523_234116160 (resized).jpgPXL_20220523_234132277 (resized).jpgPXL_20220524_011051114 (resized).jpg

Looks like a little dried flux on there? Not really much to indicate that it wouldnt be sending signal, at least from a visual inspection

Not so much that it was not a solid solder connection, more that there may be sloppy solder that made inadvertent connections. But mostly melted/burned board and scrapes and scratches with a lot of flux on one of them. I did not see any signs of inadvertent connections of solder. Not exactly a professional job none the less. For those that have not had the luxury to get at these boards, its not a quick or fun process.

Hmm yeah, while I see whay you mean it doesnt look like something that could cause the issues youre describing. I just spent some time reading through your post history- again, sucks and Im sorry to hear.

My questions for you are; 1) It looked like you had a working game as recently as 5 months ago, when did the chronic issues start creeping in? 2) when was the last time the game booted properly? 3) what code rev are you on now? Whay firmware rev?

Seriously!?! I will let Pinball Brothers know they have a candidate for the service department. I appreciate you and your six pinball machine knowledge.

I'm gonna go back to private messages for a while. There is nothing to see here, everything is dandy in PB land. Good luck everyone.

Cheers!

drypaint I can bring over my power supply to try out. I have had odd stuff go out because of poor power supplies. That AG soccer I have was doing all sorts of strange stuff due to PSU failure.

OMG that looks.... well let's just say "untidy"... and I'm certainly no soldering expert.

Quite honestly if I took that out of the machine, I'd assume it was faulty.

It’s ridiculous that you had to go through all of this!! PB should refund you your money back or replace the broken machine with an upgraded “working” LV.

You forgot to mention unplugging it and counting to 10. Works every time.

Dry flux can easily come off with iso alcohol.
You can leave it on. I don’t, I hate to see it and bothers me.

Before people jump at my neck for the statements below,these are the correct procedures as per kester. They make a really good solder wire.

https://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/knowledge-base#4505-flux

…”

Rosin Flux Removal

Rosin flux residues are non-conductive and non-corrosive. Under normal circumstances they do not have to be removed from a printed circuit assembly. Rosin residue removal would be for cosmetic considerations. In an environment where the working temperature of the assembly will exceed 200°F the rosin residues will melt and become conductive, in these situations flux removal is required…”

And yes, I have some time behind a soldering iron.

It should always divert the orbit to the pops when the lock is lit (unless a mode is blocking it or something), so it doesn't usually take me that many orbit shots for the pops to feed the flipper

I agree. Frustrating playing Queens nest without it diverting to the pops..

Just got off a long video call with Andrea from PB. He had me recheck every connection that I had tried many times, and swap most of the boxes and boards I had already tried, none of this helped. He was feeling as frustrated as I was and we were just about to break from the call and take a day to reevaluate the situation when he threw out one last effort. After ruling out many parts, he unplugged three cables from the back of the 'cabinet' controller box on his game and was able to recreate the flickering. He then re-plugged in one cable at a time (powering off between) until the issue went away. It was narrowed down to two cables. We ruled the ethernet cable out because I had tried three different ones already. So, I checking the continuity on the other wire harness (I did not have an extra) with my multimeter and it was fine. So, not the cables.

I had already tried swapping the box itself, but we tried one more time.... It worked! WTF!?! Game booted. I have 1 bad cabinet controller box and 1 faulty one.

He is sending me a new cabinet controller box. Now I have to turn it off, properly secure the box, clean-up the cables, and try powering it back on. I definitely have a better understanding of the inner working of this game. I am cautiously optimistic at this point.

I will say, Andrea cares about what he does. He is trying very hard to make things work for everyone.

That's a positive update drypaint ...I would echo the sentiment on Andrea - he's been a great resource. Just sent me a custom video to fine tune the Xeno head that I'm currently reviewing.

I definitely have a better understanding of the inner working of this game. I am cautiously optimistic at this point.

You and I both brother....Great customer service...But I know this machine back to front now...

And boom goes the dynamite! (Kidding) but glad you are getting closer to having a working game! CATO & ANDREA are clearly passionate about this game and are willing (& actually have the ability) to do whatever it takes to help people out!