Pinball Arcade announces it won't carry Bally/Williams Tables

(Topic ID: 216399)

Pinball Arcade announces it won't carry Bally/Williams Tables


By uncivil_engineer

3 months ago



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  • Latest reply 35 days ago by roffels
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There are 298 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
#151 3 months ago

Just to confirm this has nothing to do with PPS which makes sense as Rick and the guys are hugely passionate about Pinball and very customer focused!

#152 3 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

What am I missing here? What are you actually buying if you already have the packs?

Follow the link. They have a comprehensive list of the 3 possible options. The cheapest (if you already own all the tables) is their custom cabinet support mod. Looks like they've done a lot of work, and totally worth the $150.

If you upgrade and purchase the $500 option, you get a standalone program that includes all 76 tables (pro versions) and their custom cabinet support engine.

Note that the cab support does backglass and DMD rendering on different devices. Like I said, looks like they've put in a lot of work in this software...

#153 3 months ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Follow the link. They have a comprehensive list of the 3 possible options. The cheapest (if you already own all the tables) is their custom cabinet support mod. Looks like they've done a lot of work, and totally worth the $150.
If you upgrade and purchase the $500 option, you get a standalone program that includes all 76 tables (pro versions) and their custom cabinet support engine.
Note that the cab support does backglass and DMD rendering on different devices. Like I said, looks like they've put in a lot of work in this software...

What kind of options are out there for video pinball cabinets? Arcooda's doesn't seem to be out yet, unless I'm mistaken.

#154 3 months ago
Quoted from bloodonthepins:

What kind of options are out there for video pinball cabinets? Arcooda's doesn't seem to be out yet, unless I'm mistaken.

The general consensus seems to be build your own. That way you can get the most current PC hardware, decide if you want the best graphics card and 4k monitor, how many buttons and what kind you want, etc. Much like real pinball, it can take a lot of tinkering, but that's a bit of the fun for me.

#155 3 months ago
Quoted from bloodonthepins:

What kind of options are out there for video pinball cabinets? Arcooda's doesn't seem to be out yet, unless I'm mistaken.

VPcabs and Arcadesrfun build cabs also.

#156 3 months ago
Quoted from bloodonthepins:

What kind of options are out there for video pinball cabinets?

Allo! Chambly hein? Unibroue! Moi je viens de St-Hubert. Mais bon...

Back on topic. VPcabs are really popular indeed. They make a vertical one that's kind of cool, if space is an issue.

Making your own is quite a project, but it's a popular option. There's a couple of facebook groups about Virtual Pinball, with tons of resources if that's the route you want to take.

#157 3 months ago

Anyone play both the Arcooda and Free camera mod versions? I watched the video on the Arcooda website and it doesn't look any better than the free camera mod unless I'm missing something. I was thinking about getting this for my cab until I watched the video. Those 4 camera angles they showed leave a lot to be desired

#158 3 months ago

So given the situation, what’s the best version of TPF to buy? I have every device except Switch.

#159 3 months ago
Quoted from tbanthony:

So given the situation, what’s the best version of TPF to buy? I have every device except Switch.

PS4 on a good screen is pretty stunning and runs smooth as butter. The steam version for pc seems good but it does not look as good as the ps4 and is pc speed dependent.

I have the full set for ps4.

#160 3 months ago

Ios on a decend ipad.

#161 3 months ago

I'm curious if there's any chance all these B/W titles will magically show up on Pinball FX3/Zen Pinball's platforms on July 1...

#162 3 months ago
Quoted from tbanthony:

So given the situation, what’s the best version of TPF to buy? I have every device except Switch.

I went with iOS on my iPad for a few reasons.

1. The iPad is portable, has a much bigger screen and much better battery life than the Switch.
2. While PS4 graphics are better, it has a finite lifespan until they release their next generation PS5. And if history says anything, that means your PS4 purchases won’t be able to be transferred over once you upgrade your hardware.
3. Meanwhile iOS isn’t going anywhere. I can upgrade to another iPad in another year or two, and my table purchases should still be good to download from the App Store.

#163 3 months ago
Quoted from japespin:

I went with iOS on my iPad for a few reasons.
1. The iPad is portable, has a much bigger screen and much better battery life than the Switch.
2. While PS4 graphics are better, it has a finite lifespan until they release their next generation PS5. And if history says anything, that means your PS4 purchases won’t be able to be transferred over once you upgrade your hardware.
3. Meanwhile iOS isn’t going anywhere. I can upgrade to another iPad in another year or two, and my table purchases should still be good to download from the App Store.

Did they change how it works? I thought it used to be only licensed to the machine it was originally purchased on, ie...I bought mine through steam. But can't install what's purchased on my new computer.

#164 3 months ago

This is utterly rediculous, after all the effort they went to recreating these machines with the premise of being preserved forever in digital form.

Whats the real reason then if it's not PPS refusal to renew the license?

#165 3 months ago
Quoted from Spies:

This is utterly rediculous, after all the effort they went to recreating these machines with the premise of being preserved forever in digital form, for Planetary Pinball to then refuse to renew the license, do PP really think they're going to find someone else who wants to go through all that effort again?

People have been doing this work for free for decades, actually. I'm sure there could be a company who wants to come along and do it again. Hopefully a whole lot better.....

#166 3 months ago
Quoted from japespin:

I went with iOS on my iPad for a few reasons.
1. The iPad is portable, has a much bigger screen and much better battery life than the Switch.
2. While PS4 graphics are better, it has a finite lifespan until they release their next generation PS5. And if history says anything, that means your PS4 purchases won’t be able to be transferred over once you upgrade your hardware.
3. Meanwhile iOS isn’t going anywhere. I can upgrade to another iPad in another year or two, and my table purchases should still be good to download from the App Store.

I’m not sure iOS is the best choice. I’m going to assume the app will become outdated. I’ve had that happen with other apps and they become unusable after updating iOS. If I dedicate an Apple device to it and don’t update iOS then I could probably assume it would work for some years to come.

#167 3 months ago

The real kick in the balls is for some reason they're not allowing you to buy these games on Nintendo switch even while they have the rights. Don't understand why I can't load up now?

I'm also someone that uses TPA to demo games not only to see and hear what they sound like but to appreciate the rules. How anyone could say this is a waste is beyond me. What a great inexpensive and portable option to get a little Pinball fix. No one expects this to replace pinball but why wouldn't we want as many entry points into this hobby as possible? Last time I checked growing the hobby was a good thing.

#168 3 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

The real kick in the balls is for some reason they're not allowing you to buy these games on Nintendo switch even while they have the rights. Don't understand why I can't load up now?

Switch is probably the reason this all happened. I have to assume Switch wasn’t in their contract, and when they released TPA Switch, they were in breach. That’s why the Switch version was pulled so fast & the others remained up.

#169 3 months ago
Quoted from Spies:

This is utterly rediculous, after all the effort they went to recreating these machines with the premise of being preserved forever in digital form.
Whats the real reason then if it's not PPS refusal to renew the license?

Because PPS don't own the rights

#170 3 months ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

I'm curious if there's any chance all these B/W titles will magically show up on Pinball FX3/Zen Pinball's platforms on July 1...

Pretty much not happening. Zen focuses on fantasy pinball, not simulations. If that sort of IP shows up, it's going to be "inspired by" at best.

#171 3 months ago

So had someone else basically snatched the rights from TPA?

#172 3 months ago

I'm just disappointed it was never released for the Oculus Rift. The Pinball FX is great in VR when used in conjunction with a dedicated Pinball controller with plunger, flipper buttons, nudging control etc. I have been hanging out to try the Bally Williams games in VR. A real bummer that will never eventuate.

#173 3 months ago
Quoted from Slim64:

Did they change how it works? I thought it used to be only licensed to the machine it was originally purchased on, ie...I bought mine through steam. But can't install what's purchased on my new computer.

No, it’s not based on machine. It’s based on iTunes account.

Quoted from tbanthony:

I’m not sure iOS is the best choice. I’m going to assume the app will become outdated. I’ve had that happen with other apps and they become unusable after updating iOS. If I dedicate an Apple device to it and don’t update iOS then I could probably assume it would work for some years to come.

Sure, if an app is no longer supported and no longer in development, you’ll see that happen. However, that is not the case with Pinball Arcade. They’ve already announced that it will continue to be developed with new tables, thus it will continue to be supported. You just can’t buy new Bally/Williams tables anymore after that June date.

#174 3 months ago
Quoted from Spies:

So had someone else basically snatched the rights from TPA?

If your question is asking about clarification regarding PPS: my understand is that PPS does not own the rights to the games themselves (simulated or otherwise), they only have the rights to reproduce parts. Scientific Games (formerly known as Williams Games!) still holds those rights. Even though they do not make pinball machine anymore.

Although that said, does this mean CGC had to work with Scientific to make MMr/AFMr?

#175 3 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

If your question is asking about clarification regarding PPS: my understand is that PPS does not own the rights to the games themselves (simulated or otherwise), they only have the rights to reproduce parts. Scientific Games (formerly known as Williams Games!) still holds those rights. Even though they do not make pinball machine anymore.
Although that said, does this mean CGC had to work with Scientific to make MMr/AFMr?

This is absolutely correct.

#176 3 months ago
Quoted from Spies:

This is utterly rediculous, after all the effort they went to recreating these machines with the premise of being preserved forever in digital form.

I agree. The stupidity and the waste of it all...

#177 3 months ago

Does anyone know of a working mod that can make Pinball Arcade work in VR for the Oculus Rift? That was another promised feature that Farsight never fulfilled. Ugh.

#178 3 months ago
Quoted from tbanthony:

I’m not sure iOS is the best choice. I’m going to assume the app will become outdated. I’ve had that happen with other apps and they become unusable after updating iOS. If I dedicate an Apple device to it and don’t update iOS then I could probably assume it would work for some years to come.

The app will continue to be updated on the iOS longer after consoles get updated and you’re screwed by not being able to take it forward.

iOS is best option for future proofing.

#179 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Switch is probably the reason this all happened. I have to assume Switch wasn’t in their contract, and when they released TPA Switch, they were in breach. That’s why the Switch version was pulled so fast & the others remained up.

Seriously doubt that. Farsight has added many platforms over the years with no issues. And why would the license holder object to more? More sales = more profit for them. Green is the only color that matters.

#180 3 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Seriously doubt that. Farsight has added many platforms over the years with no issues. And why would the license holder object to more? More sales = more profit for them. Green is the only color that matters.

They probably added the platforms to the contract before release. I think they released the Switch version before legally being able to do so. Why else would they pull the Switch version on its first day but not others? Why can you still buy B/W tables on the others but not Switch? The others are contracted till end of June. Switch wasn’t in the contract.

#181 3 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Seriously doubt that. Farsight has added many platforms over the years with no issues. And why would the license holder object to more? More sales = more profit for them. Green is the only color that matters.

Because you don't write contracts that don't allow you to control the use. Partitioning and controlling use is essential if you want to monetize each avenue and even sell it to other people.

#182 3 months ago

Just check out the Tetris story by the Gaming Historian. Contracts can get out of control in a hurry.

#183 3 months ago
Quoted from japespin:

No, it’s not based on machine. It’s based on iTunes account.

Yup. I can play owned tables on both my iPad and my iPhone.

-1
#184 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They probably added the platforms to the contract before release. I think they released the Switch version before legally being able to do so. Why else would they pull the Switch version on its first day but not others? Why can you still buy B/W tables on the others but not Switch? The others are contracted till end of June. Switch wasn’t in the contract.

So they would have with the Switch too. No reason to change a successful pattern.

Why did they pull the Switch? Probably because they found out they weren't going to be able to renew the Bally/William licences, and added its removal to a standard update.

#185 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because you don't write contracts that don't allow you to control the use. Partitioning and controlling use is essential if you want to monetize each avenue and even sell it to other people.

So Farsight would have added the Switch to a new contract, like they did other new platform. My point was more about why the license holder WOULDN'T want the Switch to have it. They wouldn't.

#186 3 months ago

With all of this hullabaloo I thought "Man, I should go buy all these WMS games before they're not available anymore! Because, they're not going to be available anymore! OH NO". So I loaded up TPA on my ipad and played a few different trial games and then thought "Oh yeah, *that's* why I didn't buy them in the first place, nevermind".

#187 3 months ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

With all of this hullabaloo I thought "Man, I should go buy all these WMS games before they're not available anymore! Because, they're not going to be available anymore! OH NO". So I loaded up TPA on my ipad and played a few different trial games and then thought "Oh yeah, *that's* why I didn't buy them in the first place, nevermind".

I bought the early seasons hoping they would "get better one day". They never did.

#188 3 months ago
Quoted from tamoore:

They never did.

Just curious, what were your expectations? What don't you like?

#189 3 months ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Just curious, what were your expectations? What don't you like?

There are very clear physics problems that should have been addressed that never were. This was the biggest issue in that it made the games not fun to play. The games played like the tables were 3/4 or 1/2 scale.
I think at one point they made an update to the physics, but that didn't really play any better.
Visual pinball which is a free pinball engine had a better (but also flawed) physics engine.
For a commercial product, Farsight should have done better. Pinball is a physical game. If you don't get that right, you don't have anything.

The tables were just wrong quite often. Full plunge on Whirlwind went up and around the ramp rather than around the upper orbit. That was never fixed while I was playing them as one example.

#190 3 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

So Farsight would have added the Switch to a new contract, like they did other new platform. My point was more about why the license holder WOULDN'T want the Switch to have it. They wouldn't.

They released it on Switch BEFORE realizing it wasn't in the contract. THAT'S why it got pulled so fast. They weren't allowed. That's why the others are still up. They are allowed until the contract runs out.

#191 3 months ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

So Farsight would have added the Switch to a new contract, like they did other new platform. My point was more about why the license holder WOULDN'T want the Switch to have it. They wouldn't.

Plenty of possibilities why but we arent in the room so im not going to try to justify one verse another.

It could simply be a matter of wanting too much money for the number of editions they have, etc. We arent there so we cant say

#192 3 months ago

The inability to pull off strong backhand shots always bothered me. I have most 90's W/B pins, or have played them, and you can strongly backhand most shots in them. Backhands were always super weak in my Pinball Arcade. Even straight up the middle shots seemed a little "off".

#193 3 months ago
Quoted from japespin:

No, it’s not based on machine. It’s based on iTunes account.

Sure, if an app is no longer supported and no longer in development, you’ll see that happen. However, that is not the case with Pinball Arcade. They’ve already announced that it will continue to be developed with new tables, thus it will continue to be supported. You just can’t buy new Bally/Williams tables anymore after that June date.

Things that no longer generate revenue tend to eventually go unsupported or go out of business at some point.

#194 3 months ago

This has to be a corporate political BS battle of some sort. Like Scientific having a hissy fit that Stern is also on there. Might be continued fallout from MMR.

#195 3 months ago

It is just unbelievable how difficult it is for pinball to get some licenses. I see tons of shit games, licensed, using all music, call outs, portrets...

And pinball... cannot use main music, call outs, main characters, always license problems on almost every pin. I dont get why holders are so anal with pinball but cheap free to play crap games are allowed to use anything.

Zen pinball cannot even use the tum tum tum Jaws tune in a Jaws pinball.

Pathetic!!!

It has become my number 1 annoyance in pinball. So many great themes ruined because they are not allowed to use the full capacity of a license.

#196 3 months ago

I spend about 24 hours a month on planes and trains (or in stations for same), so I decided to buy the rest of the seasons on my iPad. I know the iPad has HDMI out capability, but is there any way to get external button support on iOS? I don’t like tapping a screen to flip.

#197 3 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

but is there any way to get external button support on iOS? I don’t like tapping a screen to flip.

Short answer is yes:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/icade-mini-cabinet-for-ipad

Long answer is to take an iCade or Atari Arcade mini-cab for iPad and modify it to your liking. (Which is how that whole thing above got started.)

#198 3 months ago

This might help anyone that wants to save some money and get all of the seasons.

Today May 17th I bought all 7 seasons on my Amazon Fire tablet.
Each season is $29.99 plus local tax. So the total should be $210 + local tax mine would be $224. But instead of paying directly for the seasons with cash I used Amazon coins to buy each season.

Today for 10,000 coins it $82. Full price for this many is $100 but since I've been checking them they have always been on sale usually around $90. Doing a little Google-fu the cheapest they dropped to was $75 a while ago but every now and again they go down to around $80.

So I bought 2 10,000 coin packs for $82 each ($164) and 1 2,500 coins for $24 for a total of $188.

This was just enough for all 7 regular seasons and buying the pro version of TOTAN just in case they take it away since it's not part of the 7 seasons.

So total savings was $36

Again this amount worked for me because of where I live with sales tax. Some may have to buy a little more coins and some might need less. And the cost of these coins change almost everyday so they could be even cheaper or more expensive when you're reading this.

#199 3 months ago
Quoted from Slim64:

Did they change how it works? I thought it used to be only licensed to the machine it was originally purchased on, ie...I bought mine through steam. But can't install what's purchased on my new computer.

That is not how Steam works at all. Can install on multiple computers no problem, and even sharing your games between multiple accounts. Pretty nice.

#200 3 months ago
Quoted from phillymadison:

This might help anyone that wants to save some money and get all of the seasons.

Thanks! Neato workaround!

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