A stern fanboy talking about cookie cutter pins. Now that's funny.

And "multiple ramp technology".

Pics look nice, but still not buying one. Simply not enough VALUE in the asking price. Head will take some getting used to and understand why they did it. I bet there's a laptop sized color screen in there in the next couple of releases and that will get rid of the reflection.

ANd this is a hobby people. Not an investment. If the prices all collapse tomorrow, I still have the games that I LOVE and will play the exact same.

Met, Tron, SM, TZ, Wh20, JM, JD, RFM, swep1 [for sale] and Attila the hun [for sale] with WoZ, predator and hobbit on order and paid for.

I hope it's everything you expect for the people buying one though!
D

Well said...

Dgoett ......EXACTLY....I just opened this thread to see if anything cool about ST yet...kind of figured it would just be bickering, however.....really don't get it......something is only ( and always)worth what someone is willing to pay for it...this is my HOBBY, not an investment strategy....I'm grateful that some of these things retain value, but expecting it?.....no way...I hope that most on this site really just enjoy the Games half as much as I do....easily the best hobby I've found so far for me....mark

I AM anxious to see this laser/ playfield Projector thing......

Maybe because its a SM in disguise

+1 for me for sure!

Unfortunately for many in this hobby .. they need their games to retain value in order to sell a game and buy a new title they really want more (upgrade or just exchange). The bubble bursting will end this. We'll be back to hoping at least one pinball company stays in business so we can salvage the remains of a game once it comes off of route. Glad it's your hobby and you could care less if you pay 8k for something and it drops to 5k or 6k in value a year later. But for others ... retaining value/equity matters a lot. I can't think of anything that will end people's interest in supporting this hobby faster than this. Don't tell me people do not buy certain titles because they feel good it will at least maintain its value (if not go up). Stern has essentially just asked you to take on a significant more risk to your purchase. This is the catalyst for a bubble bursting .. if this game doesn't turn out amazing (highly collectible and worth every bit of 8k) ... what happens then? 799 pinball collectors just say "oh well, don't care, I like it" and get ready to purchase the next title? I don't think so.

CraZ4Pin...I don't buy anything wanting it to be worth less a year later....but I don't make my decision to buy one or not based upon it. Think it would be really hard to " speculate" pins, except the older tried and tried models, possibly.....but new technology.....no way....just about everything I run (buy) into ( Video, Computers,etc. ) takes a sharp hit after it is bought.
I've got a GoBook III that I spent $6500 for...can't give it away.....my take ( doesn't really mean anything) is the resurgence in pb is due to people are looking for a hobby that isn't crazy expensive ( man, pricing golf, automotive, even fishing gear makes me woozy)...and can be shared, enjoyed in a home environment.
A classic got me in (TAF), and suspect those type titles will always retain value, depending on condition, popularity, etc. But NIB's for the " flavor of the month"?....no way.....just have to use the moderation rule ( whew, a hard one to follow, I agree)....mark

My dream of opening this thread to find new and useful information has been repeatedly crushed this evening. At this point, I only keep clicking on it due to muscle memory.

ha ha

That's why I keep checking back.....sorry to entertain some of the banter....I JUST WANT TO SEE THE LASER THING........mark

Yes, this thread is like the car wreck I drive by slowly to watch out of morbid curiosity. Only at this point, it's like my car ran out of gas right at the site and I can't drive on...
.... until Expo.

There is no difference. I am part of the problem.

Okay, so you took me ranting about prices being stupidly high to me being a Stern hater, unable to buy more games, and incapable of understanding that not everyone wants a lot games? really?

"Essentially what you're doing, is complaining that you can't own more pins". Really? you got that out of what I typed?

This post made me laugh and thus made the thread worth opening this time. Thanks!

Unlikely to see it anytime soon. Just as MET's hammer wasn't revealed until the LE was on the line.

Complaining about pin prices is worse than bitching about the weather. Gary Stern is the one cranking out 2-3 standard pins a year, not anybody else. It's his business, and frankly anyone who begrudges him or the design team a small raise is a class warrior. If you can't afford the pins now, wait and buy one off of a route or from a fickle collector. It won't kill you to wait.

Realistically, anything you buy depreciates with time. The popularity of what you own can make the price increase due to the rareness (in this case) of a pin in question. I'm with many here that for me, its a hobby. I have no plan to sell unless I may be living out of a cardboard box (a Stern one, *rimshot*) but I am with many others in saying, if you're in it just for an investment, there's better things to invest in. I'm gonna have fun and fix it up when it needs it and have more fun. That's the life of someone who enjoys a hobby.

THIS!

+1

If the hobbyist didn't buy it, they probably wouldn't make it.

I don't think Stern can win no matter what they do. Don't get me wrong, I have issues with things they do (incomplete code, corners cut in certain areas). But people scream for unique designs, then don't buy them when they are made (Avengers). People scream about clipart of actors covering the playfield, then get mad when a design leaves them out.

Running a pinball company seems fairly difficult from what we've seen. If you want good themes, they cost money. If you want good designers and programmers, they cost money. If you want an efficient factory that can produce a large number of machines, it costs money. It's an incredibly niche market with a small, picky base of customers. If it was as easy as some say, there'd be a lot more companies out there.

Now I'm not trying to make excuses for everything they do. I just don't think Gary Stern is Scrooge McDucking it in a vault every evening. I think it's still an industry that's a few bad titles away from shutting the doors. And I think the prices reflect the fact that it's an incredibly difficult industry to survive in. If it wasn't, more companies would be doing it.

So the review says the game feels solid and has metal in place of the particle board on the back of the head. I wonder what else they upgraded? Can't wait to get mine.

Wow, you guys are amazing. I cant wait to see the next Stern fan layout pin. It will probably be 9000 and you will jump to buy them. You cant deny Stern a price increase or your a class warrior. You might even be a racist for that matter.

what i wanna know is, what's the game play like, dmd animation? sounds, modes, you know what really matters.
metal on the back of the backbox, sound like an old EM machine, not that it's a bad thing...

You do realize you don't ever have to own a pinball machine to enjoy this hobby? Many actually do it this way, believe it or not. Collectors losing their ass on pinball machines won't affect the players at all. Collectors who never sell never lose their ass. You could go many directions with this, etc.

LOL. Look at my collection again. You will see a wide variety of pins from many manufactures. I love pinball and all kinds. Yup, I'm a Stern fanboy, and a Williams, Bally, Gottlieb, Capcom, Sega, Data East, ect.

You do realize it is the home collectors/buyers that have really revitalized this hobby don't you? I'm pretty sure it's not because ops are suddenly making money again on pins in their arcades. Why would you risk (yes, obviously my opinion that this is what they're doing) hurting the home collector/buyer market?

I would also be very curious to know how ops feel about paying $6500 for a 'premium' version of a game to have on their route. How much risk do they feel is involved in recouping their cost at this price point. Can they only afford to take a chance on a 'Pro' version? This 'Pro' in particular seems to have so much less than the premium addition compared to past pins.

I love hearing this. Some people can't get over certain things and they will always spill negativity. It's people with your attitude that keep pinball alive.

You may want to be careful with what you post in this thread. if the trolls read and comprehend it; their holes may just seal up and this thread will die.

Btw great post.

Here come the LE purchase defenders

Seriously Rob, step back a second and look at the true problem. CODE. Do you have a written guarantee that you will have good, complete code with ST? Have you played the game yet? The problem overall with Stern is CODE, plain and simple. I can't understand buying without purchasing UNLESS this is a killer theme for you. That mentality I can understand since I have bought because of theme and boy did I get burned bad. I'm betting you aren't buying because ST is your killer theme... as you said in a previous post you are willing to take a chance since it is a SR pin. I hope you and the other buyers are not let down.

I guess you (and the other ST buyers) are willing to accept the risk that ST will never get solid code, which is highly likely. The code issue is not SR's fault I want to point out, its the Stern corporate mentality to release unfinished product. That will never change.

Nice, I would like to see them and play them. As far as owning, I have found that I prefer W/B. I have owned a few Gottliebs and about 5 Sterns and a Data East but I prefer the art and the layouts or W/B. Seriously Pappy I got nothing against you, I don't know you. I would give knowing you a chance though and I would happily play your machines, or let you play mine, drink a few whatever. For what its worth I would love to love every new Stern that came out but I just cant like what, to me, is the almost exact thing every time with a few variations along with a dramatic price increase. This will not stop until people stop buying them. Sometimes I let my aggravation go to far. Take care

No problem man. I'm not trying to tell you what to do or what to think but there are many who really enjoy the Sterns who where only into B/Ws. Keep on flippin' buddy.

So where was the info that there may be lasers and projection? That sounds pretty cool I do agree if they tilt the DMD up for the glare, that is a neat thought on their part.

WTF does any of that have to do with the post you are replying to?

"LE purchase defender"?! I've got news for you Hugh, I don't need to defend my decision to purchase to you or anyone else. I'm a big boy. But thanks for watching out for me.

That comment made me smile. Thanks. I'm a born tinkerer anyway. I used to break things to see how they worked. I've infected all my co-workers into wanting their own machines as well as playing them on a regular basis at the nearest tavern. So much that one of my co-workers joined a PAPA tournament there.

Half the fun is figuring out what's wrong and fixing it. There's gratification in that. Not just giving up and selling it.

Yeah, Im guessing from the USS Vengeance.

I think Hugh hit the nail on the head about the code. How many games are there out there with unfinished code? What kind of business model relies on its employees finishing its products on their own time years after the products are initially sold?

I don't have a Stern or a WOZ and I am fairly new to the hobby. When I started to hear about WOF, X-men, Monopoly, SM and others waiting for code updates I was surprised.

I understand the issue of keeping a factory moving producing games. They have to pay employees and need something for them to produce to stay open. They also need to sell that product in order to keep the doors open. That makes sense and I think it is causing games to be released before the code is complete due to the pressure to keep the factory busy and keep cash flow steady.

I also understand the use of licensed themes. Original themes would cost too much to create and be too big a risk in the event they didn't catch on.

I am glad that Stern exists and it seems like there has been an improvement in quality and maybe in design too. The problem is that the constant release of machines that are less than they could be due to code issues is unacceptable when you consider that in some cases the updated code just never comes out.

Stern should dedicate resources to finishing all unfinished code and releasing machines with finished code or, when it is not possible to finish the code prior to release, follow through and make sure all code is completed. I don't think this would require a significant financial commitment and would go a long way to regaining the trust of those who have bought expensive games sight unseen only to discover code that is incomplete and often never completed.

Comments regarding code on past titles is fair. However, I don't recall Stern ever advertising in advance the exact number of modes that would be in a game like they are doing with ST? 6 main modes and 18 mini-modes. If you put that in your advertising you better damn well deliver before you get hit with a "false advertising" claim. Now, how long it takes them to complete that code is a different story ..

I'm a big boy.

Now I'm getting hungry.

th.jpeg

I had not see the specific modes claim. That sounds like a move in the right direction for releases with full code.

Most people who are ordering ST LE had already decided months ago (or last year) that they were going to love it, because they already had some sort of pre-order in place. I don't think anything short of a Zizzle could make those individuals dislike it. They were simply going to love it, nothing could stop them.

It's a Ritchie design, so many get excited simply about that too. It's also the ultimate nerd theme.

Gary is just being smart. He's jacking the price up when he can (And when people pre-order a game before they even have seen it, why WOULDN'T he raise the price??) and keeping the designs in a safe zone of what player/collectors have historically enjoyed... basic fan design with ramps, loops, and a toy up the middle that does something.

I'd guess after the creative layout of TAV, and the lackluster sales and earnings, that Gary got the message through to Ritchie to keep it safe and simple. So he simply tweaked Spider-Man and gave it some ST emblems and logos and an Enterprise. The playfield "art" is a step backwards, no doubt, but it's no different than the Stern art for years and years, it's just that everyone had high hopes of the end of the Stern phoned-in art package with the custom real art on Met, not to mention the re-hiring of Feres.

It'll be a lot of fun to play, with the ST theme, sounds, lighting, etc, no question about it. But yes, it's a let-down to me and a fairly uninspired design. But Stern is a business, and they made a proper business decision. Look to the boutique companies if you want to spend your money on creative designs. Stern appears mostly be in the business of re-packaging successful pinball designs of the past, and tweaking the toy and shots enough so it's not exactly the same.

Yep. Totally agree which is why i think ST will rule! because the 'king' designed this game. Unlike some designers, Ritchie seems to design games with a plan. He thinks out his shots and insert matrix. He can envision the rulesheet as he's designing the pin. Then uses that vision to work with the programming team to ensure it gets implemented. Do you think Lyman pulled ACDCs rules from thin air? No Steve had a plan and a dam good one at that. There's a reason they call him the king. He can see so many possibilities in his designs that he can get programming headed in the right direction. Lawlor was very good at this too. Other designers can't get this deep into a non-developed pin and usually use programming as a crutch.

The King also designed T3, WPT & Elvis

Not that those games are bad

But TSPP & LOTR they ain't!

Anyone else get their pinball topper? Raise your hand!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B000REOEBK/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0

that would definitly make a nice topper!

Indeed. Lights up and looks like it does in the movie. Talks ("KHAAANNNNN!"). A winner.

But that's the really old looking Enterprise, right? The pin is based on the new movies and the Enterprise looks more modern, no?

Amen brother...this is all that needs to be said about this release and future releases. As long as people are buying up games without even playing them, it will remain so.