(Topic ID: 28580)

Picked up a Williams Fire - New to system 11


By jayrodoh

7 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Elevatorman
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#1 7 years ago

Got a Willaims fire to repair yesterday. I have owned numerous machines, but the newest SS I have worked on is a Gottlieb system 1. I am very good with electronics/componet level repair and not afraid to dive in, but wanted to see if anyone had some pointers on Williams system 11.

I have been googling and have found lots of good info. Basically I have not plugged it in yet, looks like the usual stuff though. Test the power supply output first, relocate the batteries off the board, check fuses, reconnect power supply and power up, run through diag.

I've also read that these machines need some additional fuses on the transformers as some have started fires.

Any other good info or system 11 links appreciated! Thanks!

#2 7 years ago

Fires? New one on me....

Check the GI and power wiring at the board connectors, it's often a bit tired or even burned out.

Great game by the way, one of my favourites.

#3 7 years ago

System 11's are probably my favorite pins - great era!

#4 7 years ago
#5 7 years ago

Awesome link, thanks! Yes I enjoy these era games, never played this specific one.

The fire comment I only found once, so I'm not sure I need to install the fuses as mentioned.

Found the reference to the fuse issue on a few sites, guess a few extra fuses can't hurt:

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index1.html

#6 7 years ago

Looks like I got a bit of a basket case. After a good look over tonight, here's what I found:

-Both flippers need rebuilt
-All slingers dead (there are visably burnt transistors on the CPU board, Q73, Q76, Q77)
-Bottom displays not working, power supply output voltages are good.
-The fireplug will not stay down, mech issue
-Outhole kicker seized
-All rubber dry rotted and broken
-Battery holder broken on CPU board
-The usual burnt out lights and needs a real good cleaning.

Passes most of the diag tests but the non working displays and CPU board work are the big ones I need to address. I think it will be best to send the board out for repair as I am not familiar enough with it to bench test once complete.

Any tips on the displays?

#7 7 years ago

My fire plug is doing the same thing. I have taken it apart twice and I still haven't got it right. It is a tough one, so if you get it to work right post a pic. I really need to dig back into it, I have been rebuilding motorcycles for the last couple of months, but the weather is getting cold. Time to come back inside to the pins. Congrats on the Fire! It is a cool game... HAHHAHHAHA

#8 7 years ago

If your HV is good and your display needs replaced I would get an LED. Rottendog or "other" is cheaper and better than new glass. Going through the power supply is easy on SYS11 and that would be my first stop. The sys11 fuses I think are for the 2 bridge rectifiers on the lower right side of the back box. That's where they were on my High Speed and I added the fuses, cheap insurance and easy to do. I am pretty sure the sling shots on system 11 will stay locked on if a ball is trapped under the sling. If one gets stuck its an easy way to toast the transistor. Make sure to check the pre- driver for the toasted transistor. Its cheap and easy to replace and if the transistor is toasted I would replace the pre driver as well.

GPE electronics has good prices on the stuff you need.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

If one gets stuck its an easy way to toast the transistor. Make sure to check the pre- driver for the toasted transistor. Its cheap and easy to replace and if the transistor is toasted I would replace the pre driver as well.

Interesting you mention that, diag shows a stuck switch for one of the slingers. Might have something to do with it.

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from jayrodoh:

Interesting you mention that, diag shows a stuck switch for one of the slingers. Might have something to do with it.

Well that might be one problem solved.....

System 11 is not bad at all to work on. Get your batteries off the main board when you get it running. I recently restored my Whirlwind and put a remote battery holder on the head box. I always replace my batteries once a year. I powered on my WW and got the "adjust failure" message which typically means weak or dead batteries. I had just put new Duracell's in it 4 months prior. When I popped the translite off and open the door my news Duracell's with the "good thru 2016" date had leaked. Not really bad but enough to put some cottage cheese on the battery holder.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Not really bad but enough to put some cottage cheese on the battery holder.

Neutralize that stuff with a q-tip and a baking soda/water mix, in case you forgot you high school chemistry.

#12 7 years ago

I thought Battery "Acid" was a Base not an Acid in that case you use can use yellow mustard or diluted vinegar solution

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

I thought Battery "Acid" was a Base not an Acid

Hmmm....

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

I thought Battery "Acid" was a Base not an Acid in that case you use can use yellow mustard or diluted vinegar solution

I'm pretty sure this is right.

Edit:
Yep that's right. I'm not a chemistry guy, but batteries leak potassium hydroxide which becomes potassium carbonate when exposed to air. Also known as Caustic Potash and Potash respectively.

#15 7 years ago

Well, it depends on the batteries that you are using.

In an alkaline battery, the anode (negative terminal) is made of zinc powder, which gives more surface area for increased current, and the cathode (positive terminal) is composed of manganese dioxide. The alkaline electrolyte of potassium hydroxide is not consumed during discharge.
Section through an alkaline battery.

The half-reactions are:[11]

Zn(s) + 2OH−(aq) → ZnO(s) + H2O(l) + 2e− [e° = -1.28 V]
2MnO2(s) + H2O(l) + 2e− → Mn2O3(s) + 2OH−(aq) [e° = +0.15 V]

Overall reaction:

\mathrm{Zn_{(s)} + 2MnO_{2(s)} \leftrightharpoons Mn_2O_{3(s)} + ZnO_{(s)}} [e° = 1.43 V]

#16 7 years ago

I have had really good luck cleaning battery leakage with baking soda and water, but the chemistry would suggest it is more the water. Apparently I should have studied more in high school.

Interesting read:

Alkaline batteries are prone to leaking potassium hydroxide, a caustic agent that can cause respiratory, eye and skin irritation.[note 1] This can be reduced by not attempting to recharge disposable alkaline cells, not mixing different battery types in the same device, replacing all of the batteries at the same time, storing in a dry place, and removing batteries for storage of devices.

KOH is highly basic, forming strongly alkaline solutions in water and other polar solvents. These solutions are capable of deprotonating many acids, even weak ones. In analytical chemistry, titrations using solutions of KOH are used to assay acids.

2 years later
#17 4 years ago

I know this is an old thread but i just picked up a Williams FIRE! pinball table last night. It was sold as a working machine, tho mostly sitting for the last 21 years in a garage. The fire plug is stuck up and the right pop bumper above the flipper coil was disconnected at the blue wire. When i reconnected it the coil seized in the outward manner so i turned the machine off.

Advice on where to start? The batteries are not leaking, but i feel like removing the battery box is a good idea any how since its up high in the back box.

IMG_1575.JPG
#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Helixthree:

The fire plug is stuck up and the right pop bumper

I assume you mean the right slingshot?

#19 4 years ago

Check out "Pinwiki" system 11 battery relocation.It has a few options depending which way you want to go with removing the batteries.
The coil locking on is probably a shorted transistor.I dont have my manual handy but you can check it out at IPDB.com.You can see which one turns on that sling and put a meter on it.

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