(Topic ID: 120383)

Pick a Game That You Hate...Now Admit It's Great!


By beelzeboob

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 71 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Manbearpig
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

CrazyLevi made me do it.

On another thread, it's my contention that everybody has a game that they hate that deep inside, they KNOW is great.

The one game I KNOW is great (or well-regarded) is TZ, but I can't stand it. (I reserve the right to add more as I think of them...)

What's yours? (I'm hoping at least one WOZ-hater steps up at some point...)

EDIT: For further clarification that this isn't just another "what do you hate" thread: A couple of people got the gist of where I was going with this. (See Bryan Kelly's and Ryan Wanger's posts below for a good example.) Any game in the top 30-50 (you could argue for even more spots) should be considered a great game by virtue of its universal appeal. But you aren't a fan for whatever reason...even if you can't put your finger on what that reason is.

I'm just looking for a great game that doesn't have that "it" factor for you. (I'm still really trying to love AC/DC...)

#2 4 years ago

Metallica. I really like old stuff from this band, but I can't stand this game. It's in the Top [X] for some reason, though.

#3 4 years ago

I really hate MM AFM MB AND TZ. Just played out. TZ was a crap game on route gee wonder why. Didnt become where it is now till the home roms dropped. MM and AFM are the econo box of the willams era and I just dont like them. But I can acknowledge they are good games.

#4 4 years ago

I could list almost any system 11 on this list. I used to only be interested in DMD games, and now I find that most of the system 11's are fantastic games with some great strategy and music.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from TheRave:

I could list almost any system 11 on this list. I used to only be interested in DMD games, and now I find that most of the system 11's are fantastic games with some great strategy and music.

Wait...so you hate System 11 games even though they're great? Sounds like you love them now.

#6 4 years ago

One highly-regarded game that I kind of "hate" is TSPP. Most of the ones I have played have been heavily routed and not playing the best, thus making it more difficult. I'm sure if I played a really nice one I would probably like it better, but at this point my thoughts about it are rather negative.

#7 4 years ago

I hate LOTS of games I admit are great.

TSPP Hate the silly sounds, too much shit on the playfield and way too deep for me.

TZ Way too stop and go.

LOTR Way too dark and too deep.

WOZ Hate everything about this game. Mostly because I'm aware of what it took to get it made.

FH I just don't like the gameplay. Not sure why.

EDIT:

STTNG Too deep and too complicated. There's just nothing fun about the game

MB Sounds are way too repetitive. Something simple like that can drive me insane.

TOTAN Again, hate the sounds. So much so I have no desire to play the game.

#8 4 years ago

Monster Bash, there I said it. Beautiful package, awesome theme, should have enough for me to love it and I can understand why it's loved, I just don't love it.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Director:

Monster Bash, there I said it. Beautiful package, awesome theme, should have enough for me to love it and I can understand why it's loved, I just don't love it.

I forgot that one. I can't stand the repetitive sounds. It's the one game I've restored more of than any other. Still hate it.

#10 4 years ago

(raises hand)

"A game I know is great, but I hate..." --> Not sure what your goal was with this...

Say more about this "I know is great" phrase...

Do you just mean -- I hate it because of the THEME, but I know the game design is strong?

I think we already have a love it/hate the theme thread... That's an easy one.

I'm guessing you had a new idea for an angle here. Don't quite get it.

Your example of considering "already well-regarded" doesn't help me understand your goal. I hope most of us try to disregard others' ratings in general, and focus on creating our own, and fine tuning our own rating systems.

-mof

#11 4 years ago

Shaq Attaq, love the theme! Hate the gameplay...

#12 4 years ago

STTNG. I hate it with a passion. Owned one, but hate it so badly that I have trouble even playing one.

Can't say I hate it, but I also don't have much love for MB.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

(raises hand)
"A game I know is great, but I hate..." --> Not sure what your goal was with this...
Say more about this "I know is great" phrase...
Do you just mean -- I hate it because of the THEME, but I know the game design is strong?
I think we already have a love it/hate the theme thread... That's an easy one.
I'm guessing you had a new idea for an angle here. Don't quite get it.
-mof

I tried to clarify by adding "well-regarded" in the original post. Some people can't get past their own negative personal opinion about a game and admit that it's well designed or really fun to play or whatever. My point was...how many people can get past their hatred for a game and admit that it's still a great game, even without your ringing endorsement?

The example I used when this came up in another thread was the movie 12 Years a Slave. Won the Best Picture Oscar, got universally great reviews, and I hated it.

And yes...your example about hating the theme but the game itself being great would be a good example. I love the TZ theme, but can't stand the game, which is the exact opposite.

I'm guessing asking people to say something nice about something they hate didn't sit well with RobT.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

your example about hating the theme but the game itself being great would be a good example.

So this is just another "I hate the theme thread?"
Nothing more?
-mof

#15 4 years ago

No...it's...

Ah...never mind.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from TiltDis:

Shaq Attaq, love the theme! Hate the gameplay...

Should have been shaq fu

#17 4 years ago

Just thought of another one. (This'll make mof happy...)

I LOVE the theme of Theatre of Magic, and I think it's a beautiful machine. But the gameplay gets old fast, and every time that bitch says, "It's magic!" or "Feel the magic!" or anything with the word "Magic" in it, I want to stick forks in my eyeballs. (Because trying to stick them in my ears would achieve nothing.)

#18 4 years ago

I can see why some people hate TZ it's probably because they suck at it. I challenge anyone that hates it because they are horrible at it to at least try breaking 400 million on it and then ask them self if they hate it. I don't mean break 400 million just once break it at least three times so you understand how to score on it.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Shado1w:

I can see why some people hate TZ it's probably because they suck at it. I challenge anyone that hates it because they are horrible at it to at least try breaking 400 million on it and then ask them self if they hate it. I don't mean break 400 million just once break it at least three times so you understand how to score on it.

I hate it because it's a overly complicated mechanical nightmare that should have never been made. Game play is fine.

#20 4 years ago

^^^^^^^^
Gotcha

#21 4 years ago

I hated WH20...then I found a deal I couldnt resist, and It really entertains me.....
I feel differently about it then any other game, and I guess the easy word is, "FUN!"

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

So this is just another "I hate the theme thread?"
Nothing more?
-mof

Can you just stop over analizing everything for one thread please?

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Shado1w:

I can see why some people hate TZ it's probably because they suck at it. I challenge anyone that hates it because they are horrible at it to at least try breaking 400 million on it and then ask them self if they hate it. I don't mean break 400 million just once break it at least three times so you understand how to score on it.

Granted that you might have a point here...at least when it comes to me. But I still hate the music and the PF art. If it wasn't such a great game already, it would be a machine (like Star Wars) that is screaming for another design based on the theme.

EDIT: Just want to add that your argument falls apart for one reason: I was shown by two people exactly how to play and still hated the game. Even the skill shot annoyed me. What're you gonna do?

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

every time that [lady] says, "It's magic!" or "Feel the magic!" or anything with the word "Magic" in it, I want to stick forks in my eyeballs. (Because trying to stick them in my ears would achieve nothing.)

+1
Agree. This is one of the top-10 reasons I shy away from "most" DMDs...

1. 90's positiveness (the opposite of 80's taunting)

"You can DO it!"
"You've got the MAGIC!"

barf.

I'll take, "GORGAR beat YOU!" any day of the week.

-mof

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Shado1w:

I can see why some people hate TZ it's probably because they suck at it.

When this comes up some of it is also hype. A lot of people are just getting to play all the machines they want, and when hearing aboot game A or B being so high rated and then not living up to it when they play.

It's also machine to machine...my TZ has never given me too many problems, but some people say it's always broken etc.

And they probably suck at it.

I don;t think i "hate" too many well loved games. There's certain(t) games I have no great love for like ACDC & IM, but I can play them and have a good time.

#26 4 years ago

I can't admit I hate it and at the same time admit it's great.

I can however admit there are great games that I personally don't care for.

Example:
I don't care for LOTR because the games are way too long. It also sucks as a multiplayer game. That being said everything else about is great - Theme, rules, (if you like really deep games) call outs....etc... I get why it's considered great but super long, super deep pinball machines are not my favorites.

#27 4 years ago

Some people love to hate or to 'find fault in things' that "everyone else" loves -- (tv/movies/bands/pinball titles)...
You might call that, "thinking independently" or "having your own set of standards"
Why question knowing what you hate?
-mof

#28 4 years ago

I was hoping this thread would be people doing their best to sing the praises of a game they hate.

Like: "Avengers is an amazing game! Instead of sticking to boring and overused layouts, one of pinball's most prominent minds really mixed it up with something new. A lot of bash toys these days are either up front near the flippers, or straight up the middle...but not on Avengers. Not only did they put it in the back left corner, but they hid it behind a row of drop targets - everyone loves drop targets! There are some great throwback elements to it also: the importance of the bonus multiplier (from *way* back in the day), and the return of the spinning genie lamp from one of the most beloved games of all time. And theme...why settle for just one superhero when you can have 6?!?"

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I was hoping this thread would be people doing their best to sing the praises of a game they hate.

That's a love letter to AV...doesn;t sound like that person hates the game

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I was hoping this thread would be people doing their best to sing the praises of a game they hate.
Like: "Avengers is an amazing game! Instead of sticking to boring and overused layouts, one of pinball's most prominent minds really mixed it up with something new. A lot of bash toys these days are either up front near the flippers, or straight up the middle...but not on Avengers. Not only did they put it in the back left corner, but they hid it behind a row of drop targets - everyone loves drop targets! There are some great throwback elements to it also: the importance of the bonus multiplier (from *way* back in the day), and the return of the spinning genie lamp from one of the beloved games of all time. And theme...why settle for just one superhero when you can have 6?!?"

You made Avengers sound interesting. That's some talented writing right there...
-mof

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I was hoping this thread would be people doing their best to sing the praises of a game they hate.
Like: "Avengers is an amazing game! Instead of sticking to boring and overused layouts, one of pinball's most prominent minds really mixed it up with something new. A lot of bash toys these days are either up front near the flippers, or straight up the middle...but not on Avengers. Not only did they put it in the back left corner, but they hid it behind a row of drop targets - everyone loves drop targets! There are some great throwback elements to it also: the importance of the bonus multiplier (from *way* back in the day), and the return of the spinning genie lamp from one of the beloved games of all time. And theme...why settle for just one superhero when you can have 6?!?"

Hooray! You got where I was going with this. It's easy to hate on stuff...far harder to praise something you can't stand.

If everybody did that more often, the world would be a nicer place to live.

(Cue rainbows shooting out of my ass.)

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That's a love letter to AV...doesn;t sound like that person hates the game

That's most of the things I hate about it, with lots of marketing spin. There is probably lots more, but I avoid playing it, so I'll never know.

#33 4 years ago

Beezle, can we expect you to give us an interesting review of the greatness of AC/DC?
-mof

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Granted that you might have a point here...at least when it comes to me. But I still hate the music and the PF art. If it wasn't such a great game already, it would be a machine (like Star Wars) that is screaming for another design based on the theme.
EDIT: Just want to add that your argument falls apart for one reason: I was shown by two people exactly how to play and still hated the game. Even the skill shot annoyed me. What're you gonna do?

But did you score 400 million or higher? Your answer is going to be no because the game isn't fun enough to try. My only answer to that is even if the rules are spelled for you TZ is a game that challenges you and the more you play it the better you get therefore the more you will enjoy it. Also beezle you're one of the biggest fans of WOZ and if you think about it they have the exact same layout. Trust me that's no accident JJP new exactly what game to copy. Just to add I love WOZ just as mutch as the next guy.

#35 4 years ago

Wizard of Oz. Very much not into it. I can respect it, but I don't enjoy it.

Other notable mentions:
White Water
Indiana Jones (Williams)
Theater of Magic
Cirqus Voltaire
STTNG

On the other hand, I love some games most people don't:
Shrek
KISS (and it's not the theme, I just like the layout and simplicity)
Roller Coaster Tycoon

#36 4 years ago

WOZ audio on WOZ makes my ears bleed change the theme I could love it

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Beezle, can we expect you to give us an interesting review of the greatness of AC/DC?
-mof

Maybe. Keep in mind that I'm the kind of guy who took classes in college that either I knew nothing about (Latin) or didn't interest me (Economics) simply because I thought I was too short sighted to know any better. I may have some quality time on AC/DC and will be able to weigh in then. As you know, I'm not a big fan of the game, but the bell rocks! So until that time, I'm stuck staring at my AC/DC tickets and waiting for the tour.

Quoted from Shado1w:

But did you score 400 million or higher? Your answer is going to be no because the game isn't fun enough to try. My only answer to that is even if the rules are spelled for you TZ is a game that challenges you and the more you play it the better you get therefore the more you will enjoy it. Also beezle you're one of the biggest fans of WOZ and if you think about it they have the exact same layout. Trust me that's no accident JJP new exactly what game to copy. Just to add I love WOZ just as mutch as the next guy.

I 100% agree with everything you said. My only argument here would be that I think great games should be somewhat intuitive enough to draw in even the casual player. (And WOZ could be criticized for this as well.)

#38 4 years ago

Hate is a strong word. I can only apply hate regarding pinball machines in one area . NIB Limited Edition Prices from any company producing a new pinball machine. $7000 - $10,000 . Ridiculous .

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from RobKnapp:

Hate is a strong word.

True. But people 'round these parts ARE passionate about their pinball. So it's easy to hate!

#40 4 years ago

If the game was great there would be no hate.

#41 4 years ago

Not sure if I hate any games, indifferent or boring...sure, but not hate. Most games that I have initially disliked I have later liked once I either:
a) played on one that was setup correctly and 100% working or
b) was taught rules and strategy

Granted, sometimes a game just has a little too much catch and shoot and not enough flow (I seem to prefer flow as it feels more entertaining and more adrenaline). So this can make what should be a great game/theme feel flat to me.

I can't think of any title that fall into this category of hate but are great. TAF, TZ, FH, MB, and CV are all examples of highly rated games that don't interest me much after playing them multiple times at different locations. I am open minded enough to assume that they just happen to fall into my earlier stated premises though. Black Knight is a great example of a game that I border line hated until I played jabbles and mofs and realized it was all about the setup.

#42 4 years ago

For me it is the test of time. Two perfect examples.

Flip Flop and Lost World.

When I was a kid (10-12), there was a laundromat/pizza joint that had a Lost World and a Flip Flop.

When I was a little pin-head I played the buh-jeebulus out of Lost World and remember having many sessions with kids my age on it. This was the first time I remember playing a competitive multiplayer game. Loved it then, hated losing even more. The BG is burned into my memory and the whole swords and sorcery theme is way sweet! Flip Flop had a bad case of leprosy for me as the games went by so quickly that I had to make a strategic decision to avoid it at all costs. The switched inlanes and outlanes were too much of a challenge for me and I had no nudgins, just fudgins...

Fast forward to...
Meeting Lost World at PAPA and not even RECOGNIZING the playfield. I had to do a triple take to make sure the BG was attached to the rest of the game. Man, heroes go down HARD! I had barely finished the game and had to go find any other game to play as I was absolutely disgustipated by the way the deck played. Flip Flip on the other hand, is a majestic balance of simple/hard. The game can be molasses slow and then lightning fast within a single sling/pop bumper hit. The ball is always in danger and the only safe place on the PF is the upper arch over the flag-barn (new pinball word for the day y'all!).

These games switched places for me, but in reality... I was the one who changed.

#43 4 years ago

I think I would play and enjoy any pinball over not playing at all.
With that said I had the opportunity to play Transformers recently. Admittedly, I only played a few times but at a location with many other pins to choose from this game felt clunky. I really enjoyed the theme and speed of the game. Other than that for me there are many other pins that can hold my attention longer.

Not long after I finished playing I watched another player nail a high score.
It looked fun then.

#44 4 years ago

TSPP for me, too much sh*t on the playfield to be able to tell what the hell is going on, completely overwhelming and I never manage to enjoy a game on it. I'm sure it is a fantastic game if you can get into it, but I just never can!

#45 4 years ago

Archytas and TSPP not-likers. Please, consider taking the time to get to know this game. Once you do, it is SOOOOO worth it. Yeah, it's a lot to learn, so listen to the master here:

#46 4 years ago

That's a good one for me too now that I think of it. The overall look and sounds are just repulsive to me. I hear it's a great game and don't doubt it though.

#47 4 years ago

Tron and Spiderman.

Two great themes to me. Both highly regarded. As much as I want to like them, they're just missing something.

#48 4 years ago

TAF - I just hate the game. I've never enjoyed playing it. I know it was one of the games that helped rescue the entire industry back then. But I just don't like it. An overpriced, overhyped, bore-fest with a horrible annoying sound package.

I can understand its greatness. I understand the popularity, and why it was a monster on route. And I even understand why they made so many of them. But it is a game that will never be in my house.

#49 4 years ago

I hate a pin on route that is half lit, dirty, and virtually unplayable because things don't work. There are plenty of pins I don't care for but if one of those was the only pin in a room, I would still want to play it. Of course the pins I buy are going to be very selective.

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

TAF - I just hate the game. I've never enjoyed playing it. I know it was one of the games that helped rescue the entire industry back then. But I just don't like it. An overpriced, overhyped, bore-fest with a horrible annoying sound package.
I can understand its greatness. I understand the popularity, and why it was a monster on route. And I even understand why they made so many of them. But it is a game that will never be in my house.

I used to have similar feelings. I have done a complete flip flop on this one. Absolutely love my TAF!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 24.99
Lighting - Led
Lee's Parts
$ 229.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 71.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 29.90
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Bright Lights Pinball
$ 119.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
$ 10.95
8,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Melbourne Beach, FL
$ 249.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Tilttopper
$ 40.00
Lighting - Backbox
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 9.99
$ 25.00
Apparel - Unisex
The Flipper Room
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 79.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RGP Models
6,650
Machine - For Sale
Powell, WY
$ 279.95
$ 279.95
$ 189.99
$ 64.00
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 139.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
8,200 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Victoria, BC
From: $ 30.00
Lighting - Interactive
Pinball Z
7,200 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Mt Airy, MD
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside