LOL

like i said to each his own and I just wish people would get off the "every word jack said" thing. Wait till it comes out, look at machine, decide to buy or not, simple. If you don't and pre purchase and listen to what every word out of Jacks mouth translates exactly to what end product is, and your not happy....dont pre purchase! also I have never had one problem with what you mention in your list .....lucky? who knows maybe good Karma

They were budget tittles for their times? I don't put up with them at all.... they are fun to play end of discussion. You must then be heavily disappointed with most all stern and BW games Great dragon in my MM, , castle and trolls great though!

I sure won't!

What they sold for at the time is pretty irrelevant to me, I only care about my personal purchases. Would I buy an ugly game with great gameplay? Sure, I'll probably own an AC/DC at some point, and I consider that one ugly. But again, I could pick up a Premium for $5400, which isn't cheap, but is a far from from $8000 too.

I consider my METLE to be awesome, great sculpts on the toys, love the mirrored backglass and cabinet. I paid a premium to get the LE on that one (after code was updated, no pre-order) because I wanted the art package. I don't mind paying for something that makes me happy. But as the price goes up so do my expectations. That seems fair enough.

I like my Star Trek. I have issues with some of the art, but there aren't any show stoppers. Vengeance looks fine as a toy. It's just a plastic ship, nothing actually special about it, but it's not offensive either. Ships are pretty easy. Dragons are tougher, harder to get away with getting it wrong.

If I wanted a WOZ the pop bumper trees wouldn't stop me, to be clear. I don't want one for a lot of other reasons. But it's on the list of things I don't care for. Just like the Witch's plastic case, really dislike that a lot, it looks terrible. But I could overlook that too.

If Hobbit just seems incredible and Smaug is eh, life will go on, I could still want one. But it's a pretty major piece, and if they get it wrong it's definitely a big black mark.

I agree that the Smaug toy needs to be done well. With WOZ you have a ton of toys while the Hobbit appears like it will have less at the moment. I hope I'm wrong. I understand that TH is using more ports on the IO board (sure drop targets help consume those) then WOZ but even so if Smaug is going to be the one big toy in the game it really needs to standout and be very interactive. Based on some peoples comments who have heard more about the game it sounds like JJP has much more to reveal.

MY GOD KIDS! Way too much talk about TOYS. It's pinball! Is it fun to play?

Smaug better fly around the playfield picking up pinballs and breathing fire or I'm OUT!

I love the people who come on to discuss that "we" discuss too much!

Toys!

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Check the closeups Ask for detail and ye' shall receive.

Nice doggie!

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Those do look really nice and detailed.

Did someone say toys?

Hmmm Do any of the pop ups have rear targets? The middle ramps appear to allow for rear target shots to the upper two pop ups.

Also, what does the circular outline in the diagram represent?

The barrel and warg molds look really good so far. Lots of detail.

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Barrel scene in the Hobbit Desolation of Smaug:

My thinking is that Smaug is going to look awesome if these figures look this detailed.

Was just thinking that...

well a great answer to how detailed the toys will be in TH. if these are the details in the pop bumper caps and the pop ups I will hope, not assume, the detail in Smaug will be as good since it is the central piece. It will be a moving piece so im not quite sure it wont have to be more light weight and made of different materials, we shall see

Nice pops! Finally someone is paying attention to what were saying. I do agree with Aurich though, for 8K that thing better shoot out fire.

the dogs rear head which clearly looks perfectly flat sided looks to me it could be for reverse ramp rear strikes! I'm hoping!

man this is going to be epic! $10k by Christmas!!!

All kidding aside, the attention to detail, the changes on the playfield after getting feedback from pinside, I don't see how anyone can't be impressed with TH so far.

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we have come a long way baby!

I like the barrels a lot! If Matt sculpted those himself by hand I think that is a step up from past work. Look really nice! I do wish there was some lighting (or other mechanical effect) on these bumper caps though so they did "something" when hit. Always a fun effect in pinball.

Encouraging that Smaug could be really detailed!

LOL @ Mick on a stick Still one of my favorite terms in pinball.

Agreed! Great first look at the toys....

Must we turn this into a Stern vs. JJP discussion? Is it a rule or something?

this is strictly a toys discussion and in no way meant it to be this, in fact i don't blame you for thinking this way however I was merely pointing out how toys are evolving from years past. Mick on a stick you have to admit is pretty funny!

Awesome detail on the barrels. This could be a real good start to a beautiful relationship.
Now if I could just muster up enough patience. It's great JJP have listened to the changes to the playfield. It's shaping up to be a real winner. If the play is as good as the looks it will be a keeper.

Gotcha. Thought that might be the case but these threads seem to get derailed so easily.

And yeah, Mick on a Stick is about as emblematic as you can get for lame pinball toys.

I agree 100%. I get more excited for this game with each update.

Speed isnt everything in pinball

I'm with ya brother. As soon as I saw the pictures, I thought .."nailed it !"

The toys look really nice. I haven't brought myself to watch any of the hobbit movies though, the LOTR series really bummed me out as far as movies go.

I would have very little doubt with KJ's programming, the pf art, the toy gig a ma things, what was learned on woz, TH will hit on all cylinders.
Cannot wait!

Wow - those look really nice! The gameplay should be quite interesting (modal?) and with the PF and toys looking like this --- man this pin should be epic!

Well if you didn't like LOTR, stay far, far away from the Hobbit movies ...

I don't have to pay you a royalty or anything do I?

Awe .... I wanted to bash Stern (he says as he quietly sneaks out the backdoor to pick up his first Stern pinball machine this weekend)

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Will do.

I'm excited to try the hobbit pinball though, I'll play any theme as long as it's a fun game.

I still haven't ever had the chance to play WoZ yet either.

I really hope so, but for $8,000 it ought to be unbelievable!

That is A LOT of money, for a grown man's toy. I am not saying that it is not worth it, all the parts and development speak of the highest quality and HUGE potential for an incredible playing experience. But once again for $8,000 there should be quite the expectations for quality, reliability, extras, and great playing experience! There are so many great titles available used in the $1k-$3,000 range that this title better look, play, and "feel" like it is worth $8k.

Currently I am starting to agree with others comments that $5k seems to be a sweet spot for most buyers of NIB pin's, both home collectors and operators. That extra $3k better be put to good use and come out a winner, and I am hoping The Hobbit is an amazing package worth the $8k price tag, but wow, $8k is a lot of money for a big boy toy.

so what are you saying? 8k is a lot of money for a pinball machine these days? I'm guessing your not in on Magic Girl?

Correct I am not one of the "lucky" 13.....

I agree..how could you not. 8k for a pinball machine is stupid. But it is what it is. Even if it lives up to all the great expectations, it will still be an expensive toy/pinball machine This is where we are now in this hobby….new enhanced games are now just priced at this level. So its meaningless to continue to say…for xx amount it better be good, it goes without saying. But in the end, the potential buyer always has the choice to buy or not. If you’re a buyer, then you must therefore like the game and the price is within your means. If its not good, then no matter the price, you’re not a customer and just move on.
If preordering is the issue…..you have a choice. The price should not be a factor.

Or TBL, or MMr or

$8k *is* a lot for what amounts to a big toy.

At least with older/non-working machines, I can justify the expense to myself by calling the restoration process a hobby

You are correct.

So far The Hobbit appears to be shaping up to be something special. With so much effort having been put into the figures released today, I'm optimistic about what Jack has in store for Smaug. I ordered TH on day one, and I am very glad I did.

I wish they didn't have to use the art given to them by the studios. I saw a WOZ pusher machine at a amusement park and they used the same art for it that they did the pin. I also saw the same WOZ video on a game someone was playing on the computer. I long for the hand drawn art days. Maybe on PL's game. Aside from that the only critique I have is that I think Smoug should be bigger.

I think Smaug's impact to the game will be in the large toy in the top left ... in fact, I think it would be better if he wasn't in the PF image (just the mountain), but all in all it should look nice. Also to chime in on the price of 8K...most things are quite a bit more than the ole days. Cars, houses....pinball machines. I just don't think you can get a pin like this for 5 or 6K. Now perhaps you could argue that is more like 7K, but JJP has to have a solid profit on this to get the business going - to get the best people in the industry etc.