(Topic ID: 124630)

Phantom Switch Column Short??

By earflaps

9 years ago


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  • 58 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by shaub
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Opto Board 1.jpg
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There are 58 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 8 years ago

Okay...got my chips and back at. Seemed to have dug a deeper hole now. Soldered on sockets for U18 and U19 then installed LM339N chips. Turned the machine on and it wont boot...just has a solid Blanking LED. Took the CPU board out again and reflowed all the socket connections again. Did continuity test on all the traces under and on top of the board...all good....hmmm. Replaced the LM339N chips along with the U20 chip...still nothing.

Started checking voltages. J210 has the usual 12V and 5V driving the board. The only thing I can figure out is on U19 the 5V for ROW 5 at PIN 13 (2nd in from the bottom right) is giving 11.5V for some reason. ROWS 1-8 (except 5) on U18 and U19 are at 4.9V as they are supposed to be. Checked it at R31 as well and get 11.5V on one leg and 4.9V on the other leg. Indecently, this is the ROW that was giving me trouble. I'm stumped and a little concerned about the Blanking LED staying on.

#52 8 years ago

There's either a short from U19 pin 10 to pin 13 or the IC has an internal short. Remove the IC and check both with a DMM.

#53 8 years ago

Thanks for the reply terryb. I'll check that after work today...I think the problem remains but I did make some progress at lunch.

Turns out I had pulled loose one of the ribbon cables from the DM Board. Never noticed it even after the 2nd time. What twigged me onto that was that I unplugged everything except the power to the CPU Board and booted again. To my surprise, it went into Diag mode (LED 20) and appeared to be functional....nice!! After plugging the ribbon cables in one-by-one I discovered that the problem was related to the DM cable. Anyway, that one is fixed...onto the next.

I only had a few minutes to check things out but it seems I'm all over the map with the machine acting wonky since replacing the chips. Something is preventing the game from activating the GI and disabling the High Voltage to the coils. I'll do some checking after work and report back but I think it's related to a part of one of the chips now functioning which in turn has moved the problem down the chain...I could be wrong but it's a theory.

#54 8 years ago

I've spent a bunch of time on troubleshooting the CPU Board and think I have bigger issues now. For the sake of keeping this post relevant to the Switch problem, I'll start a new thread. I'll continue this thread if I ever get my CPU Board issue resolved. Thanks for the help up to now.

#55 8 years ago

Although the following article is oriented towards troubleshooting a cpu on the bench, if all your voltages are good and you disconnect everything except power to the board it should help walk you through the issue.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/board-rework-test/231-testing-wpc-cpu-on-the-bench

Please post a link to your new post.

#56 8 years ago

Thanks Terrb...I'll look at that link. I actually had disconnected everything except J210 to do the voltage checks.

Here's the link to other thread I started: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-s-cpu-with-low-voltage-at-c10#post-2414150

1 month later
#57 8 years ago

Problem solved....got a new CPU board.

I'll work on the faulty board at a later date but meanwhile I'm going to play some long overdue pinball. Thanks for all the help guys.

7 years later
#58 1 year ago

This thread is 7 years old, but I came across it when trying to look into an issue I was having and it just so happens to be the same Flintstones machine. So I figured I'd give an update on it just to close the loop on it for anyone else that may follow the same path as me.

First, a bit of background on the issue I was having in the first place. The machine was in a tourney and a player reported a phantom slam tilt. When I went to test the Coin Door Slam Tilt switch, activating it triggered every switch in Row 4 (but not the Slam Tilt switch itself, I realized later). Further testing of other playfield switches revealed the Lower Left DINO (54) activated the "K" Drop Target Opto (44) and the Upper Left DINO (26) activated the Ball Popper Opto (36). This latter issue was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Because Optos were involved, I thought there might be an Opto Board issue. Nope. Because the Slam Tilt switches go through the Coin Door Board, I thought there might be an issue there. Nope. As it turns out, the Slam Tilt Switch activating Row 4 and the two DINO Targets activating other switches were completely separate issues and I really should have figured that out sooner and when I did things got a whole lot simpler.

The Slam Tilt was triggering Row 4 because the Switch row wire (that is supposed to go from one lug of the physical switch to J5-13 on the Coin Door Board) was just daisy chained to the Coin Door Ground Wire (that goes to J5-3 and provides ground for all the coin door dedicated switches). So closing the Slam Tilt Switch was allowing a path to ground for the row of ANY other activated switches in Column 2, like Row 4's Switch 24 (Always Closed). I don't need the Slam Tilt to be functional, so I just removed the ground wire from the Slam Tilt leaf switch. If I wanted to fix it properly, I'd run a new wire from the switch to the IDC connector at the J5-13 spot.

The DINO Targets/Phantom Optos issue were, it turns out, a relatively routine "somethings up with the diode-situation on those switches" issue. I was able to identify the "Phantom Switch Rectangle" where closing a switch with a bad diode will activate an un-triggered switch IF a switch in the same row and the same column as the bad diode are also closed. So it turns out that hitting the Lower Dino Target (54) AND 1 of the two Bottom 3-Bank Targets (51) at the same time (plus Switch 24 which is Always Closed) created the "Phantom Switch Rectangle" with the Slam Tilt as my phantom switch. I lazily assumed the diodes were bad and replaced them, but it didn't fix my issue so I actually looked more closely at the problem switches and realized the were wired wrong, bypassing their sweet, sweet row-isolating diodes. Basically, the row wire was attached to 1 switch blade and the column wire was attached to the other switch blade with the banded side of the diode attached to the common lug. I changed it so the column wire was on 1 switch blade, the row wire and non-banded diode leg onto the common (non-switch blade) lug and then the banded diode leg onto the other switch blade. As I understand it, this allows current to properly flow from the row wiring through the diode to the strobed column (which goes low when strobed causing any closed switches in that column to allow their corresponding row to go from high to low as well, indicating a switch closure).

For more information on the switch matrix theory and troubleshooting, I suggested checking this link out: https://homepinballrepair.com/pinball-switch-lamp-matrix-troubleshooting/

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