(Topic ID: 232941)

Phantom scoring with drops on Mata Hari


By zombywoof

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 82 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by phillyfan64
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 82 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 9 months ago

So is changing the diodes going to stop the switch bounce? I’ve done everything else and it’s still bouncing.

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#52 9 months ago

The diodes should not make a difference. I think getting the switch blades closer to the target bank will keep more pressure on them when the targets are down.

#53 9 months ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

The diodes should not make a difference. I think getting the switch blades closer to the target bank will keep more pressure on them when the targets are down.

The shorter blade or the longer blade? You’re right about the diodes. I just replaced all 8 of them. No difference.

#54 9 months ago

Anybody want a Mata Hari? I’ve had about enough of this thing

#55 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Anybody want a Mata Hari? I’ve had about enough of this thing

I had to bend mine where I drew the line way down so that plastic pin is way in there so when drop lands on it, it pushes on the contact really hard. And make the contacts have a gap about as much as a business card to barely pass through when they are open.

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I did all this bending and adjusting, then on mine what would happen is the target would drop and the score would not stop, just go and go and go for a good 30 seconds. And im not even talking about during play. This was glass off, me just flicking the targets one at a time with my finger. That’s when I got fed up and replaced all the drop diodes and now it’s great.

You’re almost there man. New switches, all new diodes, beefed up targets. Just gotta get those switches adjusted.

You can do it!

#56 9 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I had to bend mine where I drew the line way down so that plastic pin is way in there so when drop lands on it, it pushes on the contact really hard. And make the contacts have a gap about as much as a business card to barely pass through when they are open.
[quoted image]

Thanks I’ll try it.

#57 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Thanks I’ll try it.

This might help. Wedge something under the switch where the green line is to help get a clean bend where the red line is and push in directed by the blue arrow. Then do a similar bend on the outer blade to get the contacts gapped.

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#58 9 months ago

How much $ for the machine if you throw in the towel?

#59 9 months ago
Quoted from Skidave:

How much $ for the machine if you throw in the towel?

Haha, not there yet. Just needed to walk away for a bit.

mrm_4 if you get a chance can you take a close up picture showing the bends on your switches. Thanks

#60 9 months ago

With proper adjustment you should be able to make the original setup work. I have never had trouble with mine.

#61 9 months ago

Before I go bending these switches every which way I have an idea. I’ll report back.

#62 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Before I go bending these switches every which way I have an idea. I’ll report back.

Well just for anyone to reference. Its not pretty but it works. The 3 red arrows in this bank were the major problem switches. You can see them bent way towards the targets. The blue arrow shows where I had to bend the lower blade to make the contact push up against the higher blade when the target drops.
The green shows where I bent the blade in the front to give the whole blade more leverage to hold against the higher blade when the target drops on it.
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Here’s a view from in the bank.
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Here’s showing when the target is down the contact is solid. An earth quake isn’t gonna separate the 2.

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Then after doing all of this is when I would get runaway scoring which drove the diode replacement.

#63 9 months ago

Thanks for the pictures mrm_4. The way I see it, here’s the problem in a nutshell. It’s being caused by the retro targets not having a flat bottom. The lip on the bottom of the targets is preventing the plastic tab on the switch from making hard pressure against the bottoms of the targets. I thought the plastic piece I added would do the trick, but when I look real close I can see that the bottoms of the targets are still not completely flat. It’s better, but still not 100% flat. So I’m in the process of sanding the bottoms of the targets flat. However that will probably cause the targets to sit too low when they are down, creating a rut in the playfield for the ball to get stuck in. So after I sand the bottoms flat, I may have to add another piece of plastic to raise the targets up so they sit even with the playfield. If this doesn’t work, then I’ll start bending switches. What a PITA!!

First picture you can see despite the added piece of plastic, it’s still not sitting flat. 2nd picture sanded flush.

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#64 9 months ago

Almost got it. Working about 90%. Just needs a tiny bit more fine turning.

#65 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Almost got it. Working about 90%. Just needs a tiny bit more fine turning.

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#66 9 months ago

Final update on this. I went back and replaced both set of blades and stiffeners. I now have all new contacts. I cut the solder tabs off the new switches, cut the short blades of the old switches to use the side "dead leg". I basically modified the switches to suit my needs. I added 2 layers of plastic pads to the bottoms of the targets. This served 2 purposes. One, to push down harder on the switches, and two it raised the targets so they are now level with the playfield when they are down. The ball is less likely to get stuck in a rut. I made the switch contacts as close as possible without causing them to fire accidentally. The result is that the targets are now working great. Thanks everyone for the help.

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#67 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

BigAl56, what a great job that must have been!

Imagine working in the office and the boss comes in and says he needs testers up in the lab to play more games. That's what the job was like. We would spend the day doing the assembly and wiring exercises Philly was doing for this post, then testing and playing until time to go home. We knew a game was going to be a hit if we were still playing past 8PM.
In those days we played after-hours for .25 a feature. Every time a player completed a target bank, earned multi-ball, doubled bonus. etc, the other players had to throw a quarter in the pot, winner got the pot.
Of course we were all single guys in our 20's. The consequence of having a dream fun job was it only paid about 22k a year. After I got married my new wife made me quit and get a 'real job'.

#68 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Final update on this. I went back and replaced both set of blades and stiffeners. I now have all new contacts. I cut the solder tabs off the new switches, cut the short blades of the old switches to use the side "dead leg". I basically modified the switches to suit my needs. I added 2 layers of plastic pads to the bottoms of the targets. This served 2 purposes. One, to push down harder on the switches, and two it raised the targets so they are now level with the playfield when they are down. The ball is less likely to get stuck in a rut. I made the switch contacts as close as possible without causing them to fire accidentally. The result is that the targets are now working great. Thanks everyone for the help.
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I’m glad you got it man! I know it was frustrating the hell out of you.

#69 9 months ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Imagine working in the office and the boss comes in and says he needs testers up in the lab to play more games. That's what the job was like. We would spend the day doing the assembly and wiring exercises Philly was doing for this post, then testing and playing until time to go home. We knew a game was going to be a hit if we were still playing past 8PM.
In those days we played after-hours for .25 a feature. Every time a player completed a target bank, earned multi-ball, doubled bonus. etc, the other players had to throw a quarter in the pot, winner got the pot.
Of course we were all single guys in our 20's. The consequence of having a dream fun job was it only paid about 22k a year. After I got married my new wife made me quit and get a 'real job'.

That sounds like a perfect job for a single guy in his 20's! I'm sure you've got lots of great memories from that experience - you should start a dedicated thread (if you haven't already) that contains first-person anecdotes from both technical and work/job perspectives. I bet it would be a popular thread!

#70 9 months ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Imagine working in the office and the boss comes in and says he needs testers up in the lab to play more games. That's what the job was like. We would spend the day doing the assembly and wiring exercises Philly was doing for this post, then testing and playing until time to go home. We knew a game was going to be a hit if we were still playing past 8PM.
In those days we played after-hours for .25 a feature. Every time a player completed a target bank, earned multi-ball, doubled bonus. etc, the other players had to throw a quarter in the pot, winner got the pot.
Of course we were all single guys in our 20's. The consequence of having a dream fun job was it only paid about 22k a year. After I got married my new wife made me quit and get a 'real job'.

I think when I retire I want to go work for a Pinball company!

Quoted from mrm_4:

I’m glad you got it man! I know it was frustrating the hell out of you.

You’re not kidding. I spoke to Dave at Alltek but he was not aware of a rom update to ignore the switch bounce. That would have made this so much easier. I also spoke to Steve Young at Pinball Resource. For whatever reason they stopped making flat bottom repro drop targets for Bally. Even with the work I did on these, the switches still had to be adjusted just right to stop the bounce.

#71 9 months ago

Love this game. Hate this game. Lol. It’s grest when it all works properly tho. Glad you got her working like a working girl should !

#72 9 months ago
Quoted from Nikrox2:

Love this game. Hate this game. Lol. It’s grest when it all works properly tho. Glad you got her working like a working girl should !

I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately over the weekend the problem sort of came back again. This thing needs that ROM update to fix this issue once and for all!.... Anyway the glue I used to hold the little plastic pads to the bottom of the drop targets is not holding up to game play. Does anyone know what kind of plastic the drop targets are made of? I figured they were polystyrene so I bought something specifically for that. I should have just bought an epoxy like dothedoo suggested but it said not for polystyrene. I also have no idea what kind of plastic my little red pads are. I just cut them out from a parts bin divider on top of my tool box. I did try sanding a couple of the target bottoms to make them flat. Works but then the targets sit too low and the ball is going to get stuck.

#73 9 months ago

That’s my history too. The saucer seems to work now (now that I have the replacement in hand of course). The ghosting seems to have subsided with the cap’s changed out ( the first once replaced on the left kicker I had to cut one leg of the cap to make it work again, but now the ghosting is over ). Every now and then I get one drop to not pop up. But then it does the next ball so not too worried

I still have the 10k chime not functioning correctly. It does stroke when it’s supposed to, but little to no chime at all

Besides that - she’s all working properly.

So today , I love this game. Check back tomorrow for future updates tho! Lol

#74 9 months ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

This thing needs that ROM update to fix this issue once and for all!....

If you have a non Alltek MPU board and access to an EPROM programmer, PM me.

#75 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

If you have a non Alltek MPU board and access to an EPROM programmer, PM me.

I have an Alltek board. I don’t have an EPROM programmer but I would gladly buy one if I could fix this thing. If you have an idea, I can talk to Dave again from Alltek and maybe the fix can somehow be applied to his boards. Thank you.

#76 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

If you have a non Alltek MPU board and access to an EPROM programmer, PM me.

PM sent

#77 9 months ago

Nick
Did you rebuild the 10k chime? New grommets and standoffs are a minimum requirement when rebuilding. PBR has SS chime rebuild kits or you can order individual parts from Marco and others.

#78 9 months ago

Aha! All I did was put in a new sleeve and cleaned the shaft but that was it. Possibly the new standoffs and grommets would do the trick? It does fire when supposed to, but I get a thud instead of a clean tone. Thought it was the coil not firing / hitting the chime hard enough, but maybe this is the ticket?

I'll take that apart tonight and check, maybe even move one over that is working to see if that's the issue.

Thanks for the suggestion!

#79 9 months ago

Usually, the dull thud is because the bar is not isolated from the box or the metal standoff that it sits on. Can't help you with the misfiring right now.

2 weeks later
#80 9 months ago

Update - and this could be for really any chime issue - I did the refurb kit as Billc479 suggested. While taking it apart I noticed the 10k chime unit’s shaft was shorter than the others. It was activating as it should still no actual sound.
So just recieved the new shaft and viola - I can hear the tones as they were supposed to! Finally! Such a diff on the other chime bars too!

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#81 9 months ago

If you did all the work with the switch rebuilds couldn't you have made it like the newer ones and mounted them to the back?

The bottom mounts ones all have issues, even the stern ones, and even with software to track the downed targets.

#82 9 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

If you did all the work with the switch rebuilds couldn't you have made it like the newer ones and mounted them to the back?
The bottom mounts ones all have issues, even the stern ones, and even with software to track the downed targets.

I didn’t really look at that option. Maybe I should have. I did find new drop targets on eBay that have flat bottoms and they are longer. They do work better than the targets that have tabs on the bottom. At least with these I don’t have to mess with trying to glue pads on the bottom of them. It’s not perfect but it’s probably working correctly 90% of the time.

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