San Jose, CA
The middle class was a very unique experiment,It was fun while it lasted!
(Topic ID: 302822)
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:In regards to the self checkouts, absolutely. around here where a 15 dollar an hour bill was passed recently. These things sprang up overnight in all the new construction. So I beleive this law directly killed those entry jobs.
The first time I saw one of those machines I was waiting in line at the local grocery store. I was 3rd person in line with only a handful of items. The checkout clerk said to me “you can use self check out” to which I replied “you know those things are going to take peoples jobs”.
Quoted from grantopia:The same place you are. You're charging more than MSRP for something and then criticizing people for it in the same post. You're "taking a loss" but still selling (and clearly buying) things for more than retail.
So if I'm buying for more then retail and I do not like the product or I need to sell it I should sell it for even a bigger loss? There is a huge difference if the persons sole intention is to buy up all of the inventory and gouge the resale market. That is what we are talking about here. Someone told me about the term "Bots" These are computer programs that buy up all of the pre orders for a person or a group of people with the sole intention of controlling the resale market for that product.
If you bought a pin and did not like it God forbid we broke even or turned a small profit on a game. I have been loosing money on my pinball habit for years.
The big companies have prepared for the increase in wages. How you might ask? By firing a large percentage of there workforce and replacing them with self checkouts or automated kiosks for ordering. That was really nice of them.
Most large companies do not care about their employees even if they say they do. They will let you work there for years and fire you immediately if there is the slightest chance of them not getting their fat bonus. That is disgusting.
Quoted from playtwowin:So if I'm buying for more then retail and I do not like the product or I need to sell it I should sell it for even a bigger loss? There is a huge difference if the persons sole intention is to buy up all of the inventory and gouge the resale market. That is what we are talking about here. Someone told me about the term "Bots" These are computer programs that buy up all of the pre orders for a person or a group of people with the sole intention of controlling the resale market for that product.
If you bought a pin and did not like it God forbid we broke even or turned a small profit on a game. I have been loosing money on my pinball habit for years.
So if someone buys a new Xbox or PS5 should they have to sell it at exactly what they paid? Who dictates how much profit they "should" make or how much of a loss they should have to take? You?
Are the people running the bots that buy stuff and resell it for more than MSRP bad, but you reselling a Halloween spot for more than MSRP because " your wife doesn't want it" good?
Now you're telling me your motivation for a profit dictates if you're good or bad?
For someone who is "a huge fan of capitalism" I'm not sure you totally understand it.
The system is broke!Amazon and Tesla went years without making a profit.They are allowed to remain unprofitable until they finally take control the market and end up the biggest companies in the world.Whats the system where capitalism works with government?Free market?I don’t think so.
The problem is access to unlimited money they can keep borrowing money until they eventually turn a profit.The hell with mom and pop!And if you are enjoying the spoils of a corrupt system what incentive do you have to challenge it?Hey as long as I’m getting mine right!
Interesting topic and some interesting responses. First, I think the Ferrari argument is out. They do absolutely police their brand beyond anything I have ever seen. I thought Disney was vigilant but Ferrari is heavy in the game for sure. The big difference is Cars are much different than pinballs. I compare pinballs more to other hobby collectibles, ie trading cards, memorabilia and collectibles of that sort.
As a route operator for over 20 years now I never thought I would see this day but it's been trending this way for a few years. I guess I don't mind the flippers as much as some on here and I've never bought a game not to put it on the street or at my home. I just try not to get so worked up in who gets what and how they did. I just stay in my lane and be happy with what comes my way.
I know, it sounds so bland. Haha
Quoted from playtwowin:The big companies have prepared for the increase in wages. How you might ask? By firing a large percentage of there workforce and replacing them with self checkouts or automated kiosks for ordering. That was really nice of them.
Most large companies do not care about their employees even if they say they do. They will let you work there for years and fire you immediately if there is the slightest chance of them not getting their fat bonus. That is disgusting.
I know I've talked way too much on this, and people are long since tired of my posts regarding it whether they agree or disagree, but I think what sums it up for me is this...
I think most people glorify the high level idea of capitalism as:
I want something, you have it, and for a price I can get it. In that simplicity, it works great and everyone is happy.
But once you start adding others into the mix (say growing so you need employees) the dynamic changes considerably. Now you are not only responsible for your happiness, and your customers happiness, but your employees happiness as well. The consumer is still only concerned about their happiness.
There seems to be a tipping point where that no longer applies. IMO, generally it relates to when a company goes public (stock market), because the dynamic now shifts to prioritize people who ONLY care about your profits and really not much else. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone, but it is a big part of it and this is a very high level simplified take. Because this is basically the foundation of our economy (and the world economy), it sets the overall tone and direction of where things go in relation to wages. When you constantly see companies telling their employees for multiple years "we can't give you a raise because we only made X much this year" while at the same time telling their stockholders "we made record profits", there's a problem. This problem gets ignored repeatedly. On top of that, because of shareholders, it is no longer okay to just make a profit and a living. You must constantly grow. If you aren't growing, you lose them. How do you grow when there's competition? You cut corners, wages, and buy the competition because those things tend to be quicker and easier than spending the time and money on making a better product.
Quoted from grantopia:So if someone buys a new Xbox or PS5 should they have to sell it at exactly what they paid? Who dictates how much profit they "should" make or how much of a loss they should have to take? You?
Are the people running the bots that buy stuff and resell it for more than MSRP bad, but you reselling a Halloween spot for more than MSRP because " your wife doesn't want it" good?
Now you're telling me your motivation for a profit dictates if you're good or bad?
For someone who is "a huge fan of capitalism" I'm not sure you totally understand it.
Pretty sure we found out who bought all of the Playstation 5's for resale. 
Let's just say we disagree on this. I will go now and retire off my Halloween profits.
Quoted from epthegeek:And here we are.
In about 1980 one of my teachers would occasionally add that he thought microwaves would eventually be found to be incredibly unsafe. Just you wait, he would say.
And here we are.
Quoted from playtwowin:Pretty sure we found out who bought all of the Playstation 5's for resale.
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"37543317ce5ea25a0a408f8eade57def9cc8254f-1635352124-1800"};
//]]>Let's just say we disagree on this. I will go now and retire off my Halloween profits.
Sure, we can say what ever you want. Keep buying high, selling at a loss, and complaining about it here until you get called out for doing everything you're complaining about. You've certainly given me a lot to reflect on here.
Quoted from grantopia:Sure, we can say what ever you want. Keep buying high, selling at a loss, and complaining about it here until you get called out for doing everything you're complaining about. You've certainly given me a lot to reflect on here.
So happy I could help. 
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:The 15 dollar an hour law being forced down throats is going to backfire bad. It was implemented to fast.
There is no “$15 an hour law”, not even a bill before the Senate. What are you talking about? A local law?
Quoted from swampfire:There is no “$15 an hour law”, not even a bill before the Senate. What are you talking about? A local law?
There are local laws (maybe even state in a few places)
EDIT: this should shake you to your core.....6 years ago.
Dec 21, 2015 — Fourteen cities, counties and states approved a $15 minimum wage though local laws, executive orders and other means in 2015.
Here is a rundown of the current state of affairs. Actually further spread than I thought.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:In regards to the self checkouts, absolutely. around here where a 15 dollar an hour bill was passed recently. These things sprang up overnight in all the new construction. So I beleive this law directly killed those entry jobs.
That’s creative destruction, one of the foundations of capitalism. No reason those jobs should exist when there are more efficient and cheaper ways to check people out.
Quoted from grantopia:Sure, we can say what ever you want. Keep buying high, selling at a loss, and complaining about it here until you get called out for doing everything you're complaining about. You've certainly given me a lot to reflect on here.
I just passed on a ps5 buy deal. It was direct from Sony, with a 48 hour window. I passed because of multiple reasons.
Number one. Cash. I don’t need to spend the money.
Number two. Not too many games I even care about yet.
Number three.
They seem to have completely excluded the local gaming stores from any profit or access on system sales. This includes big box stores. No target or Walmart availability since launch.
I kind of miss when they were available at the stores.
I’ll get one maybe. Someday. I believe ps5 is losing a lot of revenue, including my own.
Quoted from Azmodeus:I just passed on a ps5 buy deal. It was direct from Sony, with a 48 hour window. I passed because of multiple reasons.
Number one. Cash. I don’t need to spend the money.
Number two. Not too many games I even care about yet.
Number three.
They seem to have completely excluded the local gaming stores from any profit or access on system sales. This includes big box stores. No target or Walmart availability since launch.
I kind of miss when they were available at the stores.
I’ll get one maybe. Someday. I believe ps5 is losing a lot of revenue, including my own.
I'm in the same drawing and I'd like to grab one if my name comes up.
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:First, I think the Ferrari argument is out.
Obviously Ferrari and pinball are different. The easy route for manufacturers would be to simply state that all warranty is null and void if not purchased from a distributor. Would take some of the steam out of the aftermarket
Quoted from Azmodeus:I just passed on a ps5 buy deal. It was direct from Sony, with a 48 hour window. I passed because of multiple reasons.
Number one. Cash. I don’t need to spend the money.
Number two. Not too many games I even care about yet.
Number three.
They seem to have completely excluded the local gaming stores from any profit or access on system sales. This includes big box stores. No target or Walmart availability since launch.
I kind of miss when they were available at the stores.
I’ll get one maybe. Someday. I believe ps5 is losing a lot of revenue, including my own.
Completely agree. Retail stores need product if they want to stay in business. These store are paying big bucks to place themselves in high traffic areas. All at the benefit of the manufacturer. They need to remember who got them there in the first place.
And yes game selection on PS5 and most next generation systems should be much better at launch. Software sells hardware.
Quoted from bigguybbr:Obviously Ferrari and pinball are different. The easy route for manufacturers would be to simply state that all warranty is null and void if not purchased from a distributor. Would take some of the steam out of the aftermarket
But they also want to make sure they sell everything. Creating FOMO is part of the marketing. In reality, no company has a real incentive to stop flippers.
Quoted from swampfire:There is no “$15 an hour law”, not even a bill before the Senate. What are you talking about? A local law?
Yes locally
Quoted from Zablon:But they also want to make sure they sell everything. Creating FOMO is part of the marketing. In reality, no company has a real incentive to stop flippers.
If someone is eating into their and their distributor potential profits, they do. It’s viewed as leaving money on the table. If someone can resell your product they bought from you at retail for a 30% markup, then you could have just charged more from the get go and kept the profits.
If you are a Stern distributor, it must be infuriating to have to buy at a price, be forced to sell at a given price, only to have someone turn it and resell for a profit that could have been yours.
Quoted from swampfire:That’s creative destruction, one of the foundations of capitalism. No reason those jobs should exist when there are more efficient and cheaper ways to check people out.
Self checkouts may be cheaper but no way more efficient.
Quoted from swampfire:That’s creative destruction, one of the foundations of capitalism. No reason those jobs should exist when there are more efficient and cheaper ways to check people out.
Have you ever been to a fast food restaurant that is kiosk only? It's downright painful and takes like 5X as long to get your order in especially if you have to wait in line behind someone that doesn't understand technology. A few weeks ago I saw an older gentleman lose their shit and yell at the workers in the back of a Wendy's because he spent 10 minutes punching his order into a kiosk and then found out that it doesn't accept cash. He just wanted someone to take his money. Same can be said for calling a support line and have to go through 5 levels of robo operators to actually talk to some one. Yes, this technology exists and saves on the number of jobs needed but I wouldn't say it is more efficient than dealing with an actual person.
Quoted from MikeS:Same can be said for calling a support line and have to go through 5 levels of robo operators to actually talk to some one.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE. I wonder how many strokes occur because of this.
Quoted from Damen:The system is broke!Amazon and Tesla went years without making a profit.They are allowed to remain unprofitable until they finally take control the market and end up the biggest companies in the world.Whats the system where capitalism works with government?Free market?I don’t think so.
The problem is access to unlimited money they can keep borrowing money until they eventually turn a profit.The hell with mom and pop!And if you are enjoying the spoils of a corrupt system what incentive do you have to challenge it?Hey as long as I’m getting mine right!
Can go on and on with this... just look at the crazy ass stock market and housing. Rich getting way richer and the poor can suck it.
Govt has just been printing money we cant back up left and right and everything is out of wack.
The system has been on shaky ground for years but now it is pretty much just fucked.
You can only inflate the balloon for so long.
Amazon does things that are anti trade/competition all the time but the govt wont ever step in, they are too big to fail now much like the banks were in 2008.
Not for nothing but why is everybody using Burger King for their examples? Burger King sucks. All hail Wendy's
Quoted from DarthPaul:Self checkouts may be cheaper but no way more efficient.
Yes way, I love them. When I check out at Home Depot there’s usually no line. I just walk up, scan my items, pay and leave. If there’s a problem there’s a person nearby to help me.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:Not for nothing but why is everybody using Burger King for their examples? Burger King sucks. All hail Wendy's
Because we all worked there as teenagers. Totally agree: BK sucks, Wendy’s is good (depending on location).
The state-level minimum wage makes a lot of sense to me. It should reflect the cost of food and housing where you live. I didn’t know about it because GA is subject to the federal minimum wage.
Quoted from DarthPaul:Self checkouts may be cheaper but no way more efficient
You can operate more self checkout lanes than regular lanes for the same resources (space, people). That alone makes them more efficient - customers wait less and get checked out more quickly.
I see no issues with robots taking over monotonous, repetitive, dangerous and/or unskilled work. In theory, this should free up people to do more interesting and important things, but greed has screwed up our version of capitalism so things don't work quite as they should.
Quoted from swampfire:Because we all worked there as teenagers. Totally agree: BK sucks, Wendy’s is good (depending on location).
Haha my first two jobs were BK and Wendy's. Wendy's is the only one I'll still eat at as an adult.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:Yes locally
Minneapolis' (by local law) official minimum wage will be $15 an hour on July 1, 2022. Granted most entry level jobs around our metro area are now starting at $15+ now because of the lack of workers. Our local Menards is hiring starting wages at $17.
The shortage of labor is so bad, we have seen a local restaurant buy a robot that delivers food and buses tables.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:Haha my first two jobs were BK and Wendy's. Wendy's is the only one I'll still eat at as an adult.
I worked at Del Taco for a while, and I’ll always eat at Del Taco when I see one. They’re so much better than Taco Bell.
I have an antique for sale thats been in the Family since 1780.
So a Guy responds and asks if another item in the room is for sale.
FLIPPER ALERT!
I respond with one word..No.
So he responds do I have other Antiques for Sale?
This is my first Draft for a response;
No. I am a Dealer and will be listing other items in time at RETAIL PRICE.
No haggling. No quick flips for a profit here.
I want the premium price for the item, leaving no room for a flipper to make a profit.
I am patient and do not care if it sells or not.
Do not care if you are a Dealer, so am I.
Do not care if you are a collector,so am I.
If I do not have it listed then its not for sale.
In short, you WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY TRYING TO BUT MY STUFF.
I am looking for CUSTOMERS, who want the item to use,and cherish,and appreciate what it is.
Little harsh?
Quoted from phil-lee:I have an antique for sale thats been in the Family since 1780.
So a Guy responds and asks if another item in the room is for sale.
FLIPPER ALERT!
I respond with one word..No.
So he responds do I have other Antiques for Sale?
This is my first Draft for a response;
No. I am a Dealer and will be listing other items in time at RETAIL PRICE.
No haggling. No quick flips for a profit here.
I want the premium price for the item, leaving no room for a flipper to make a profit.
I am patient and do not care if it sells or not.
Do not care if you are a Dealer, so am I.
Do not care if you are a collector,so am I.
If I do not have it listed then its not for sale.
In short, you WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY TRYING TO BUT MY STUFF.
I am looking for CUSTOMERS, who want the item to use,and cherish,and appreciate what it is.
Little harsh?
You’re good. Can’t blame someone for trying though.
They can ask. You can say “Nah. Thanks bruh”
The best I’ve ever done on “flipping” was on 35amp Trilliant circuit breakers. (Fancy circuit breakers they used to use in high end homes). Paid $100 for 20, sold them all for $175 apiece to the HVAC company I worked for.
Quoted from playtwowin:There is a huge shortage of skilled professionals. Electricians, Plumbers, Carpenters, etc. For some reason the younger generation was told this is not a good career. I know a bunch of people who started in these professions and eventually went into business for themselves. They are very well off.
Straight facts. I started truck driving at 21. Got tired of working for slave wages. 3 months ago bought a used kenworth and became an owner operator. Im 25 now and owning my truck I make more in one day than most company drivers make in 2 weeks.
Quoted from bigguybbr:You’re good. Can’t blame someone for trying though.
They can ask. You can say “Nah. Thanks bruh”
I'm going to take your advice.
Simple,succinct reply.
Despite the fact these Guys will haggle you to death, berate and challenge your price as ridiculous, then turn around when its in their "Retail Showroom" and give no quarter to the innocent Shopper.
It comes down to who blinks first.
They want to be the Dealer. They want to be the authority. It doesn't matter what you know, or the History of the item.
They want to be the one that realizes maximum price.
Thanks Bruh!
Quoted from Mrawesome44:Straight facts. I started truck driving at 21. Got tired of working for slave wages. 3 months ago bought a used kenworth and became an owner operator. Im 25 now and owning my truck I make more in one day than most company drivers make in 2 weeks.
Well done Bro! 
Quoted from phil-lee:Thanks Bruh!
That’s always a good position. You don’t have to sell. They can stamp their feet all they want.
Had a similar experience in another thread with a guy looking to buy someone’s extra keychain that came with their plastic set. Pointed out plenty were available on eBay. He didn’t like the prices and basically wanted it for $5-$10 shipped to his door because they came with the plastics and it’s not like you paid for it. Had to remind him that they don’t need to sell and he doesn’t need to buy, so there wasn’t much room to bargain.
Quoted from Kkoss24:I just had 2 birds flipped at me on my way home
then stop staying in the left lane. 
Quoted from Mrawesome44:Straight facts. I started truck driving at 21. Got tired of working for slave wages. 3 months ago bought a used kenworth and became an owner operator. Im 25 now and owning my truck I make more in one day than most company drivers make in 2 weeks.
Worked as a computer programmer out of high school doing y2k code revision. It was good money for how old I was but I scrapped by. There were times I lived on friends couches and ate ramen packets for days. Eventually got the itch to make more (and my wife told me to cut the crap and go to school), so I put myself through engineering school working full time, and became an ME. Living a pretty cushy life now working, restoring pinball machines and brewing beer.
Quoted from bigguybbr:Worked as a computer programmer out of high school doing y2k code revision. It was good money for how old I was but I scrapped by. There were times I lived on friends couches and ate ramen packets for days. Eventually got the itch to make more (and my wife told me to cut the crap and go to school), so I put myself through engineering school working full time, and became an ME. Living a pretty cushy life now working, restoring pinball machines and brewing beer.
Hard work and dedication pay off.
Quoted from bigguybbr:Worked as a computer programmer out of high school doing y2k code revision. It was good money for how old I was but I scrapped by. There were times I lived on friends couches and ate ramen packets for days. Eventually got the itch to make more (and my “future” wife told me to cut the crap and go to school), so I put myself through engineering school working full time, and became an ME. Living a pretty cushy life now working, restoring pinball machines and brewing beer.
Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:Not for nothing but why is everybody using Burger King for their examples? Burger King sucks. All hail Wendy's
Wendy's blows. At the local one here, I ordered a single combo, no cheese. He said it comes with cheese. I said I don't LIKE cheese, so give me one with no cheese, how much is that? He said it's the same price, so I said, oh, ok, then give me a single combo with double cheese. He said that's extra. WTF
Seriously though, aside from their idiotic pricing, if I get an order right 50% of the time from Wendy's I'm shocked. And the fries are still too salty and the burgers are a mess.
Whopper and original chicken sandwich all the way. And yes, I worked there in high school.
Quoted from grantopia:Because the "younger generation" was told this by the "older generation". You have to go to college, you have to get a degree, etc etc etc. You know who was requiring degrees (and basically ANY degree as long as you went to college) for the most basic entry level jobs? It sure wasn't the "young generation".
My favorite part of the people who get off on the idea of keeping people poor is when you ask them what it would take for them to work those jobs. You willing to go work a fast food job for $8 bucks an hour and shitty (if any benefits)? What about $15? I know I'm not...so why are you shocked when no one else wants to either?
Others have already explained this better than I can. The $8/hr burger flipping jobs were never meant to be $15/hr "living wages" to support families and pay mortgages. They are ENTRY level jobs to the working world, not to Microsoft. McDonald's ain't asking u for a degree to drop some fries.
Buy some gas, a movie, some cds, that kinda shit. Not feed 3 kids and pay rent.
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