(Topic ID: 326676)

PBL vs. Marco - parts quality

By WizardsCastle

1 year ago


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  • 144 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by vec-tor
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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There are 144 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 1 year ago

I recently bought a full flipper replacement set for my LOTR from Pinball Life.

I installed it, and first thing I noticed was that the crank shaft almost seemed to small/tight for the flippers bats. I had to really work it in, twisting to get it to slide into place.

When I tried adjusting the bat to the right angle on the playfield, this also created some frustration.

When I finally got everything in, I just felt like the new flippers were off from what the stock ones felt like.

So I'm wondering, is there a difference in the quality of parts from Pinball Life versus Marco?

Where can I get a genuine replacement for a Stern Whitestar game?

Thanks in advance!

17
#2 1 year ago
Quoted from WizardsCastle:

I installed it, and first thing I noticed was that the crank shaft almost seemed to small/tight for the flippers bats. I had to really work it in, twisting to get it to slide into place.

You can insert a flat head screwdriver and twist it to spread apart the crank so the flipper shaft slides in easier.

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#3 1 year ago
Quoted from WizardsCastle:

I installed it, and first thing I noticed was that the crank shaft almost seemed to small/tight for the flippers bats. I had to really work it in, twisting to get it to slide into place.

That's normal. Design issue, not the wrong part. And not necessarily a bad thing. Once replaced, it shouldn't need attention for several thousand plays. Tight start is ok.

Quoted from WizardsCastle:

When I tried adjusting the bat to the right angle on the playfield, this also created some frustration.

How so? Once you have the right up and down play (about a credit card's thickness), snug it tight with the flipper positioned higher than it should be. Then push bat down to align with alignment hole.

****** IMPORTANT PART******

Once aligned with the alignment hole, raise the flipper slightly before tightening. If you try to tighten with the flipper in the resting position, torque will take it out of alignment as you tighten. It a weird physics thing. Raise the flipper slightly with one hand, then tighten. Also, if your bat shafts are chewed from previous tightening, that can make alignment harder.

Pinball Life has been the go to source for flipper rebuild kits forever. Coincidentally, they've also have had far and away the best LOTR mod forever, which you absolutely should get if you don't have them. Original flipper coils tended to fade after 20 minutes, couldn't shoot the ring. Upgraded 'special' coils have same part number as factory coil, much stronger. Installing them, then increasing pitch on the game to ~7 degrees takes the game to another level.

https://www.pinballlife.com/lotr-special-flipper-coil-090-5020-2ot.html

#4 1 year ago

I've gotten bad flipper parts from PBL many times. Coils with backwards diodes, plungers with stuck links, cranks with stuck links, etc. PBR too. Bushings too tight, bushings too tall, links installed backwards...

Never had any issues with Marco flipper parts, but they don't have everything and it's usually more expensive

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I've gotten bad flipper parts from PBL many times. Coils with backwards diodes, plungers with stuck links, cranks with stuck links, etc. PBR too. Bushings too tight, bushings too tall, links installed backwards...
Never had any issues with Marco flipper parts, but they don't have everything and it's usually more expensive

A number of Marco flipper kits are from PBR.

#6 1 year ago

Its weird because I've ordered A LOT of flipper rebuilds from Marco and they almost always have missing and/or wrong pieces in them. PBL flipper kits I've never had an issue and I try really hard now to order my rebuilds from PBL instead of Marco. For example, I ordered kits for my Vector and my friends SMDM and both kits came with some of the wrong coil stops. One kit had 2 left side crank arms instead of one left one right. This was 2 separate orders at 2 different times. Most recently I ordered a kit for my buddies t2 on location that takes me a long time to travel to and find the time in my schedule to get to, and it had the wrong links on it (newer wpc style). I remember this same thing happening another time way back in the day as well.

Meanwhile from PBL I ordered a kit for my buddies f14 and it was perfect. Kit for my Demo man from them was perfect as well...

#7 1 year ago

Parts quality vary from different vendors depending on the part and the time. It’s a gradual but ever changing landscape. Sometimes you order a part you have ordered before and it’s different or worse. And you have to return it or get another from elsewhere.

#8 1 year ago

Parts from Marco or PBL have all been good as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes either one will get screwed in quality or assembly by a supplier.

Suzo Happ used to be my go-to parts place for all my amusement industry supplies, but some of their parts are absolute crap. (Leg levelers... shudder...)

But I still buy some things from them. (I like their plunger rubber tips, and Happ Semi-Gloss Black Paint is the best rattle can paint you can buy).

Even a supplier that has really bad quality parts can have other parts that are great.

Anything from Marco or PBL that has been poor quality, missing parts, or poorly assembled has been an oddity.

I VERY rarely have problems with any of their parts.

#9 1 year ago

Where's the poll, I want to case a vote not a stone.

#10 1 year ago

I like them both. I usually buy generic wear parts like flipper rebuilds, bulbs, rubbers, etc from PBL and have only had one EOS switch that was too short that I can remember. They sent a replacement fast. I used to use PBR for classic games but PBL now seems to have everything needed for flippers.

As for flipper cranks, Ive had to spread some with a screw driver and squeeze some with pliers but never felt they didnt improve the game.

#11 1 year ago

I've not had any problems from either, other than some stuff missing from one once - can't remember which it was offhand, but they gladly and quickly made it right. PBL is usually cheaper, but Marco has way deeper stock. I do usually order individual parts rather than rebuild kits anyway - cheaper and I've taken to ordering extra bits to have on hand anyway. No such thing as too many coil stops . If you order enough stuff, you're bound to get a lemon eventually though.

If they seem weak after rebuild, a better question is why. Are the coil stops on tight with no play? Spring washers back on? Is the flipper gap good? Usually weak flippers either mean there's play in the mech somewhere - and it's easy to not get something quite right - or there's friction. Shouldn't really have the latter with new parts, regardless of source...

#12 1 year ago

Also, I've found if the flipper angle is different it can REALLY make the game feel bad sometimes. If you're used to playing something and now the sweet spot for a ramp is a bit different, it feels really bad and you can't quite put your finger on why....almost always a bit off when I've done a rebuild, worst part of it is getting it back where you like them. One of the big selling points for precision flips imo.

#13 1 year ago

No problems for me from either

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

A number of Marco flipper kits are from PBR.

Or from PBL...

#15 1 year ago

I should clarify after my post, that I still really love shopping for parts at Marco's. Easily my favorite vendor to buy from, and any time I have had an issue that I've bothered to call them about they had awesome customer service. I am just weary about their flipper rebuild kits in particular since a majority of the ones I've ordered from them have had issues. I did order my getaway and dr. who rebuild from them and those ones were fine, I think all the rest I've had trouble.

#16 1 year ago

Marcos…

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from phishrace:

****** IMPORTANT PART******
Once aligned with the alignment hole, raise the flipper slightly before tightening. If you try to tighten with the flipper in the resting position, torque will take it out of alignment as you tighten.

That's the problem though... When I align the flipper, it impossible to raise it because the crack is so ridiculously tight.

Even getting the flipper bat into the crank took a lot of force.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from WizardsCastle:

That's the problem though... When I align the flipper, it impossible to raise it because the crack is so ridiculously tight.
Even getting the flipper bat into the crank took a lot of force.

I think by raising, they mean to rotate the flipper bat a small amount as though the flipper was just starting to be flipped.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from WizardsCastle:

That's the problem though... When I align the flipper, it impossible to raise it because the crack is so ridiculously tight.
Even getting the flipper bat into the crank took a lot of force.

Take the clamp out of off, stick a flat head screwdriver in the slot between the two clamp blades, twist and hold to pry it open as someone else suggested. It's not uncommon to need to do this with new or old clamps.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from WizardsCastle:That's the problem though... When I align the flipper, it impossible to raise it because the crack is so ridiculously tight.
Even getting the flipper bat into the crank took a lot of force.

Are you sure you have the correct flipper bats? Should be tight with the Allen screw loose, but you should be able to push it up or down. If the shafts on the bats are mangled at all, that could be your problem. If the shafts are smooth, try using a large screwdriver to open the pawl, as has been suggested.

#21 1 year ago

I buy -a lot- of flipper parts from PBL and they are legit. The only minor thing I have noticed so far is one out of every 500 linkages on a flipper plunger is dragging/tight. I buy so much so I don't care, but if I mentioned it to them, they would replace with no question.

You probably have a flipper bat with a 'larger than normal' metal shaft which I have also had this issue, but it is rare. As others have said, take a screw driver and pry open the gap on the crank bar then tighten back down.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Are you sure you have the correct flipper bats? Should be tight with the Allen screw loose, but you should be able to push it up or down. If the shafts on the bats are mangled at all, that could be your problem. If the shafts are smooth, try using a large screwdriver to open the pawl, as has been suggested.

Correct parts, and all brand new.

I will try the screwdriver trick.

#23 1 year ago

I've had an excellent experience with both through all these years.

I had one mistake with a part with one, and a damaged part from the other. Both problems were taken care of immediately.

LTG : )

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I've gotten bad flipper parts from PBL many times. Coils with backwards diodes, plungers with stuck links, cranks with stuck links, etc. PBR too. Bushings too tight, bushings too tall, links installed backwards...
Never had any issues with Marco flipper parts, but they don't have everything and it's usually more expensive

Normal coils cannot have a backwards diode. Flipper coils can, but on a normal coil not possible. You are hooking up to match the banded side of the diode, not the left or right coil lug.

11
#25 1 year ago

Well, slightly off topic, but related... prices at Marcos seem to be going nuts lately. Check out these identical carts. Some price variation would not surprise me, but Marco is over 2x the price (shipping not factored in). Wowza.

Untitled (resized).pngUntitled (resized).png
#26 1 year ago

Marcos is always more expensive especially on the more common parts. They have a larger parts inventory though, so that’s where you go for the other stuff.

#27 1 year ago

PBL also switched to FedEx. I needed to make a small order and only shipping option was like $16. My jaw about dropped

#28 1 year ago

Yeah the shipping at PBL sucks. I try to place large orders to make it make sense.

That said, even with the high shipping they are usually cheaper than marco.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from mikeflan:

Yeah the shipping at PBL sucks. I try to place large orders to make it make sense.
That said, even with the high shipping they are usually cheaper than marco.

Same, same.

That being said, I do order from both and find that orders through Marco tend to process faster.

Also, both companies have specialized people that are top-class engineers and parts/repair people. PBL has Scott Danesi and Marco has Kyle Spiteri, to name a couple.

#30 1 year ago

It's exceptionally painful when you just need one .63 amp fuse. Ouch.

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from jackd104:

Marco is over 2x the price

Because they know you need multiple parts from many games and would rather buy from one store instead of multiple stores with multiple shipping charges. Also; Marco usually buys at a price somewhere between wholesale and retail then marks it up to get their profit.
Again; I'm assuming it's because they don't order "wholesale volumes" from these vendors; so don't get economy of scales.

No; I don't have insider knowledge... just spreading rumors I've heard a various places and what happened (by inference) with my Chicago Gun Game sound card.

#32 1 year ago

Every pinball vendor out there, sells the exact same parts.

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from RandyW:

Every pinball vendor out there, sells the exact same parts.

Is Stern buying parts from the same manufacturers? Trying to figure out how you get the closest thing to an authentic flipper mech replacement on a whitestar.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

PBL also switched to FedEx. I needed to make a small order and only shipping option was like $16. My jaw about dropped

I just put in an order at Planetary, shipping was $26. Nearly doubled my total, for like 4 items that could fit into a USPS small flat rate box and weigh less than a pound. Disgusting. Exact same order at marco, similar price, but shipping was only 12 dollars. Unfortunately Marco was out of the part I really needed so I was forced to get bent over by PPS

11
#35 1 year ago

Don't forget Marco typically has lower 1-price shipping, which is going to be baked into the pricing a bit. PBL has more of a "realistic" shipping price when you figure in actual shipping cost and the cost of shipping materials. BTW, have you priced shipping materials like bubble wrap lately? Its quite expensive. 24" wide bubble wrap is truck freight only now, which incurs much steeper shipping charges, and then you have to store mountains of the crap somewhere to make the truck freight charges worth it. I finally broke down and bought an air pillow machine due to the above factors since I tend to have a lot of dead space to fill up in order to protect larger ramps from the gorillas at UPS. PBL is big on wrapping everything in bubble wrap, which is great...but it does cost money. Both companies use Fedex now, which are whores when it comes to going after high volume commercial accounts. I personally won't use Fedex because I disagree with their "race to the bottom" sub-contractor model for doing business. I also don't want 80lb boxes of cat litter from Chewy dropped on top of my parcels.

One last thing...Marco supports and encourages an army of small hobby parts makers like myself by purchasing and stocking our parts. They are extremely fair and easy to work with as a vendor, and their support is a big reason I have been able to produce 50+ new and much needed reproduction ramps instead of 20 or less I would probably have without their support. So when you buy parts from Marco, you are indirectly helping fund more new and needed replacement parts in the future.

#36 1 year ago

I usually go back and forth between pinball life, action pinball and pinball wizard. Action pinball seems to be about as cheap as pinball life and they charge $8.79 for flat rate shipping which is about half the price of Pinball life. You can also find used/discontued parts on Action pinball that I can't find at other suppliers. I try to avoid Marcos due to they're high prices, but sometimes Marcos is the only one who carries the item I'm looking for.

It's tough finding a parts supplier that carries every single item I'm looking for in one order. I usually have to order from two separate companies for the bigger orders.

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from WizardsCastle:

Is Stern buying parts from the same manufacturers? Trying to figure out how you get the closest thing to an authentic flipper mech replacement on a whitestar.

Here you go.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-6617-00
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-6617-01

I use Marcos a lot. Their higher prices are still cheaper than paying me to scour umpteen sites, to find everything I need for a repair. Their site is quick and easy to find parts on, which for me, equates to less labor spent.

Now, if I were only fixing my machines, I would probably shop around for deals a bit more. I still use multiple suppliers, I have to. But usually, Marcos is my first stop, as they have most of what I need, in stock.

#38 1 year ago

Pinball Life is always cheaper so I go there first, although I hate that USPS is no longer a shipping option there. Marco is a backup only when PBL doesn't have it.

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from RandyW:

Here you go.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-6617-00
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-6617-01
I use Marcos a lot. Their higher prices are still cheaper than paying me to scour umpteen sites, to find everything I need for a repair. Their site is quick and easy to find parts on, which for me, equates to less labor spent.
Now, if I were only fixing my machines, I would probably shop around for deals a bit more. I still use multiple suppliers, I have to. But usually, Marcos is my first stop, as they have most of what I need, in stock.

So Stern buys from Marco?

I'm trying to get original full flipper parts for a Whitestar game

#40 1 year ago

I doubt Stern buys anything from pinball suppliers.
I bet they have parts built directly from the manufacturer to their specs

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from jackd104:

Well, slightly off topic, but related... prices at Marcos seem to be going nuts lately. Check out these identical carts. Some price variation would not surprise me, but Marco is over 2x the price (shipping not factored in). Wowza.[quoted image]

Even better, every part I’ve purchased from Marco lately goes UP when you click on it. Says $12.99 when you search for it, click on the item to check the specs or add to cart and now it’s $17.99.

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from TronGuy:

Even better, every part I’ve purchased from Marco lately goes UP when you click on it. Says $12.99 when you search for it, click on the item to check the specs or add to cart and now it’s $17.99.

Did you try refreshing your browser ? I was thinking prices went up but you only see it when you click on it ?

I would contact Marco and ask about it.

LTG : )

#43 1 year ago

Same thing happens to me with Marco re: prices being higher when you click on the item vs the search results. The search function is messy enough already.

Really the thing that drives me crazy with their site is their cart. I can’t keep anything in it for more than an hour without it disappearing. Building an order is a chore and I have to keep a tab with everything open so I make sure nothing gets left out.

It does not matter if I’m trying from my personal computer, work computer, or my phone. I tried to relay this to Marco and they shrugged me off.

#44 1 year ago

PBL shipping costs are ridiculous

#45 1 year ago

both Marco and PBL save my carts, sometimes for months. I am registered and logged in when I add stuff, and turn off all blocker apps and allow all cookies, maybe that makes a difference?

Its probably been mentioned, but Marco has a weekly show called pintech live on twitch every thursday where they will share a code for free shipping over 99$.

I just keep adding to my cart and use a code from the show once I hit the threshold.

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Same thing happens to me with Marco re: prices being higher when you click on the item vs the search results. The search function is messy enough already.
Really the thing that drives me crazy with their site is their cart. I can’t keep anything in it for more than an hour without it disappearing. Building an order is a chore and I have to keep a tab with everything open so I make sure nothing gets left out.
It does not matter if I’m trying from my personal computer, work computer, or my phone. I tried to relay this to Marco and they shrugged me off.

Lol, I have had things pop back in cart for months on end after deleting the item. Hilarious as I have parts that keep showing up for pins I no longer own.

#47 1 year ago

I’ve used pinball life & Marco, also Pinball Wizard in Utah, his Pop assemblies were half of what Marco charges & shipping is way better than Pinball Life. Has decent stock but not everything.

#48 1 year ago

I used to have no problem with Marco’s cart system for years but my issues have been going on for at least a year now. I have ALWAYS had a problem with their site remembering that I even have an account for some reason.

For example, I go to log in and it says my email doesn’t exist or I got my password wrong. I go to reset the password and it says “we don’t know this email”. I go to sign up for a new account and it says “we have this email already”. Ad nauseam. Several times I had to email and have someone look into it. It’s just a mess.

Their prices are so crazy they’re a last resort now anyway.

#49 1 year ago
Quoted from Mattyk:

PBL shipping costs are ridiculous

We should start a new thread on this... and make it very well known that we don't appreciate being forced to buy that FedEx or UPS crap.
They need to bring back priority mail shipping.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from Zitt:

We should start a new thread on this... and make it very well known that we don't appreciate being forced to buy that FedEx or UPS crap.
They need to bring back priority mail shipping.

Yeah. I’m sure that’ll change Terry’s mind.

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