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(Topic ID: 135205)

PayRange Mobile Payments on Pinball Machines


By policano

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 70 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Aniraf
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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    There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 5 years ago

    Hey Guys,

    I have been testing a new way for customers to play pinball and offer rewards for spending money at my location. PayRange is a small device that connects between the bill acceptor and the machine. It can also tie into the coin mech line for older games as well. The customer then downloads PayRange on their iOS or Android phone. Signs up and funds their account with Visa, MasterCard, Discover, Amex, ApplyPay, Bitcoin, and soon Android Pay. The advantage of using the app over cash is the operators can offer discounts, promotions, and FREE PINBALL!

    There is no credit card information stored by the operator or the pinball machine. The entire transaction takes place on your phone and it communicates with the device inside the machine via low energy bluetooth. There are also NO FEES for the customer. Operators pay a flat 3.95% fee per transaction. Very fair considering the alternatives available for credit cards.

    I am currently testing this at East Side Pinball on the following machines:
    Wizard of Oz
    •Kiss Pro
    •WrestleMania Pro
    •The Walking Dead Pro
    •Mustang Pro
    Star Trek Pro
    South Park
    •Eight Ball Deluxe

    This week when you use PayRange on a funded account you receive 2 free games on any game and this weekend the Walking Dead is half off.

    They are looking to launch in early Q4. The devices run $59 per machine.

    I am not paid or endorsed by PayRange. I am a hobby operator in Minnesota and enjoys pinball in technology. Check out the videos of how easy it is to sign up and how easy it is to credit up machines, see transaction data.

    Using PayRange:

    Setup Process:

    If you have any questions, you can hear all about it on our podcast The Coinbox Pinball Podcast Episode 12 and 13 that will be posted Saturday. podcast@eastsidepinball.com

    Have a great day!

    #2 5 years ago

    Did you invent this?

    #3 5 years ago

    Very interesting, please post about results. I'm a hobby operator as well and this could work wonders for me.

    #4 5 years ago

    Interesting..

    From what I read in your post, it does NOT use the other more standard wallets, like Google Wallet, ApplePay, PayPal, etc, instead requiring a second / third app to enter in CC info into?

    That'd be my big issue.. I use one and only one, and try to limit usage of my cards. (Especially with all the hacks like Home Depot, Target, BlueCross/CareFirst that have been going on.)

    Be interesting to see though, good luck!

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from galaxian:

    Did you invent this?

    Policano didn't invent this. A guy named Paresh Patel did.

    https://www.payrange.com/about/

    It has historically been mainly used on vending machines, but Policano is helping to bring it to pinball machines. You do fund the PayRange app which you are then able to use to pay for anything that is PayRange equipped. It's pretty slick technology. I get to see it first hand on his main location.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    From what I read in your post, it does NOT use the other more standard wallets, like Google Wallet, ApplePay, PayPal, etc, instead requiring a second / third app to enter in CC info into?

    Seems like this could be solved at some point, since its just software. Have it work with other wallets. The main thing is the hardware that connects to the machines.

    In any case, I think this is a good development.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Seems like this could be solved at some point, since its just software. Have it work with other wallets. The main thing is the hardware that connects to the machines.
    In any case, I think this is a good development.

    True, and I'd be 100% more interested once it DOES interface with other wallets.

    The wiring ain't even that difficult - simple transistor connecting the coin switches to ground. Hell.. give it a few advanced features - ask the user how many games they want to buy, and then select coin #4 or coin #2 input based on what they want. (Various credit options, etc.)

    It's like my coin mech - takes $.05, $.10, $.25, $.50, and $1 coins, and operates all four coin switches based on what's deposited. Easily done.

    #8 5 years ago

    I don't think it will ever just work with other wallets. I started working with them back in November about bringing it to the Pulse world, not just pinball machines. I currently am the first location to have them in arcade machines with a lot of testing and troubleshooting in the months. The release this fall will also account for cash sales as well. Pretty awesome for an operator.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    From what I read in your post, it does NOT use the other more standard wallets, like Google Wallet, ApplePay, PayPal, etc, instead requiring a second / third app to enter in CC info into?

    ApplePay and Google Wallet are not accounts that a funded. They are used for each transaction. You can fund your account with both of those technologies.

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from policano:

    ApplePay and Google Wallet are not accounts that a funded. They are used for each transaction. You can fund your account with both of those technologies.

    Actually they are. You can deposit money into it and keep a balance. (Then money is taken FROM your account if buying something like from the Play Store or at a care reader. Then, any remaining amount to be debited - if any - is taken from any linked cards/accounts. Almost exactly like PayPal.)

    But, see, that's the thing.. I'm not going to take $10 out of my account to put in this app, where then I HAVE to spend this $10 on pins, and if I don't, it sits until i do, unreachable. It's pretty much the same thing as a Dave & Buster's card system. I can't tell you how much money I ended up giving to them that wasn't used on a game, because I left the location with $5 still on it and then lost the card, etc.

    However, I see that as being an issue, as then the games would need some kind of internet access to be able to charge a card on-the-fly. (Howeveer, having said that, Mars/MEI already makes a system that can do that - AND accept contactless-pay systems like Paypal and Wallet - would simply need an MDB (coin interface) --> relay to activate the associated coin slot.

    Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic move (both technology-wise and for vendors trying to offer alternative ways of accepting payments), and for folks that frequent those places often, it could help raise intake. (Again, this is the same for card systems.) However, for example, I'm going to be out your way in the beginning of October. I'll put cash in, because I'm not going to input and charge money to my card that I may not end up spending, since once I'm gone, I won't be back for years. ..And there's nowhere around me locally that uses this system.

    --Me

    #11 5 years ago

    ApplePay does not have a wallet system. Not that I can tell. The minimum to load is $5.00. And totally fair enough. Im just excited to be able to offer promotions and specials where I was not able to before without manually modifying the pricing and being there to start it and end it. When its slow on Monday's I will do a 1/2 price day. I know the League players and frequent visitors have already tried it and really like it.

    PayRange is new and definitely more popular on vending machines right now. Hopefully with time their locations grow.

    #12 5 years ago

    Ah true - sorry, my 'they're' is/was incorrect. I don't know anything about ApplePay.

    3 weeks later
    #13 5 years ago

    Is there a way to apply this to older system games, like WPC?

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from EvanDickson:

    Is there a way to apply this to older system games, like WPC?

    Yes, I know Tony even has it set up on Eight Ball Deluxe now. He has it on his Fish Tales too.

    #15 5 years ago

    It will literally work on every game that uses the Pulse system.

    4 weeks later
    #16 5 years ago

    I have to say, I used this last week, at East Side, and it was awesome. Would make me spend more money for sure. It was so strange standing in front a machine, swiping my phone and see a credit pop up. I loved it.

    2 months later
    #17 4 years ago

    Tony, I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to speak to us last weekend while you were working. It was nice to talk pinball with you and I appreciate you introducing us to the Payrange feature. Payrange is pretty slick. We dropped $20 that night. You have an awesome collection. Both my wife and I enjoyed playing your machines and we'll be back soon. It was most surprising to be anLe to take advantage of the awesome pricing made available over Thanksgiving weekend. I will not hesitate to inform my friends to come try out the machines. And thanks for fixing up the WoOz for us. That's the one machine I wanted to play and I was glad I got to play it.

    -Greg

    #18 4 years ago

    You're most welcome. Thanks for stopping out!

    #19 4 years ago

    I've sent information about pay range to my local operator. I'm curious to hear his reaction to the idea, pricing structure etc.

    #20 4 years ago

    I need pay range for my games or at least a test unit

    #21 4 years ago

    Main Street Amusements in Lafayette Indiana has a setup like this. Seemed to work for the guys I was with. MY version of android wasn't supported and it wouldn't connect on my gf's phone. That aside it seemed like a good idea.

    2 months later
    #22 4 years ago

    Anyone done this on a new Spike system without the service outlet? I thought 12v was good, so I grabbed it from the connector labeled Ticket on the interface board on the left wall just inside the coin door. The device just has a solid red light (even though it previously was hooked up fine to a different machine).

    I'm sure this is just me doing something wrong, but any tips would be appreciated!

    1 week later
    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Anyone done this on a new Spike system without the service outlet? I thought 12v was good, so I grabbed it from the connector labeled Ticket on the interface board on the left wall just inside the coin door. The device just has a solid red light (even though it previously was hooked up fine to a different machine).
    I'm sure this is just me doing something wrong, but any tips would be appreciated!

    I'll answer my own question, seems like 7v was better.

    A simple way to hook this up: build yourself a molex or idc connector (the smaller size, .1mm) with the banded wire going to the far left pin (which I'll call slot 1), and the other wire going over 5 slots, into slot 6. Plug that connector into the interface board to the inside left of the coin door. You want it on the upper left row of pins, with the banded wire going to the far left pin. (Your connector is actually spanning across two separate sets of header pins, but if you're not connecting something else to them - then no big deal).

    #24 4 years ago

    We ran an extension cord from the service outlet down to the bottom for soldering and plugging in Payrange

    #25 4 years ago
    Quoted from Allcastlegames:

    We ran an extension cord from the service outlet down to the bottom for soldering and plugging in Payrange

    Can you explain this in a little more detail? If you have a service outlet, you don't need to solder anything.

    My question was about Spike systems, because there is no service outlet.

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Can you explain this in a little more detail? If you have a service outlet, you don't need to solder anything.
    My question was about Spike systems, because there is no service outlet.

    On Spike games there is a service outlet in the head, where the power supply is located now. He ran an extension cord from that down to the coin door area to essentially extend the service outlet to where it used to be located.

    7 months later
    #27 3 years ago

    There seems to be 2 different versions you can buy. Which one works with the newer sterns?

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from atwong:

    There seems to be 2 different versions you can buy. Which one works with the newer sterns?

    Amusement - Pulse Switch is the pinball type.

    #29 3 years ago

    Seems like you have to buy a minimum of 12. I maybe need up to 3. Seems like I can't join unless they change that.

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from atwong:

    Seems like you have to buy a minimum of 12. I maybe need up to 3. Seems like I can't join unless they change that.

    You can call and get as few as you want. But yeah, the site is set up for a minimum.

    #31 3 years ago

    Called and they said I could buy singles from DS vending.com. I went to the site and they only sell the MDB kind which kinda worked for me anyway. I didn't ask after finding you could buy the MDB ones in singles since those were the ones I didn't need 12 of. Got 2 MDB and 12 Pulse to test them, haven't installed them yet. Wish they were only $59 bucks like before, they were closer to $100 a pop.
    The only thing I didn't like is they give you a plug with the set, so its basically an MDB blue key with an adapter for pulse.
    Going to re-pin it so I don't have to use the plug.

    With the AMI jukebox app almost 70% of the funds I get are from mobile transactions.
    I have a vending machines my sales were only like 600 to 700 a week, as soon as I installed a CC reader it jumped to 900-1100. The more ways you can accept payment the better off you'll be.

    #32 3 years ago

    Are Stern systems MDB capable now?

    #33 3 years ago

    no, all amusement machines at least the ones I've seen are pulse. As long as you buy the pulse blue key you should be good.

    I'm not 100% on how MDB protocol works. as far as the pinout MDB you have 6 pins - 1 Transfer, 1 receive, 2 ground, 1 24VAC, and an N.C. pin. since most vending machines make change and have other items like CC readers you can hook up and they all need to talk to one another. The industry developed a standard protocol so everyone could be on the same page.

    pulse is straight forward so it was probably be pretty easy for them to make their blue key perform pulse. I think it's a great idea, its where we are headed anyway. there are certain machines that I would never stick this on, but for most it's great.

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    no, all amusement machines at least the ones I've seen are pulse. As long as you buy the pulse blue key you should be good.
    I'm not 100% on how MDB protocol works. as far as the pinout MDB you have 6 pins - 1 Transfer, 1 receive, 2 ground, 1 24VAC, and an N.C. pin. since most vending machines make change and have other items like CC readers you can hook up and they all need to talk to one another. The industry developed a standard protocol so everyone could be on the same page.
    pulse is straight forward so it was probably be pretty easy for them to make their blue key perform pulse. I think it's a great idea, its where we are headed anyway. there are certain machines that I would never stick this on, but for most it's great.

    Yeah, that's what I thought. I actually have the protocol for MDB, and had planned on making an interface board (MDB->Pulse) to be able to use some more vending-related items in my pins, but it's difficult since (as far as I can remember, it's been a while) they used a non-standard serial setup, like 7N2 or something. Wasn't aware someone already made a MDB->Pulse adapter, so that's good.

    #35 3 years ago

    I have a lot of them to hook up, in a couple of vending machines and a lot in amusment machines.
    I'll let you know any key differences that are found.
    they actually have two versions of the MDB one that is just a straight connect and one that allows it to read CC's so as long as you have a CC reader you don't need to install the antenna or the easitrax. Though I still don't understand how the CC gets authorized if it can't talk to anything. Does it piggy back of there cell phone connection? all new territory.

    1 month later
    #36 3 years ago

    I've been trying to setup my payrange but I can't seem to get it to work on my simpsons pinball party (it gives too much credits or doesn't register at all). What settings do people use for: pulse on, pulse off, and for their schedule (number of credits, number of pulse, amount, description).

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from atwong:

    I've been trying to setup my payrange but I can't seem to get it to work on my simpsons pinball party (it gives too much credits or doesn't register at all). What settings do people use for: pulse on, pulse off, and for their schedule (number of credits, number of pulse, amount, description).

    I have it in pinball party did you get ti to work? mine does.

    #38 3 years ago

    It works in the sense that it's plugged in and I can use the app to charge the play to my PayRange account.

    Problem is that I can either get it to show up 2 credits for a single swipe or it doesn't register at all by playing around with the pulse on and off setting. So I'm asking what did people use for those values.

    -2
    #39 3 years ago

    This seems like a pretty useless idea when it is much simpler to pay with cash.

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    This seems like a pretty useless idea when it is much simpler to pay with cash.

    Yeah, we wasted the money to put these on 8 of our games and it has largely proven to be a stupid idea. We have started running .50 Tuesdays (all games; even brand new stuff is buy 1, get 1) to see if more people will try out the technology.

    3 weeks later
    #41 3 years ago

    I know the pin league in the Bay Area uses it to pay for their plays. I don't know how popular it is but it's how I found out about Payrange.

    2 months later
    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Yeah, we wasted the money to put these on 8 of our games and it has largely proven to be a stupid idea. We have started running .50 Tuesdays (all games; even brand new stuff is buy 1, get 1) to see if more people will try out the technology.

    just like anything, I think it takes time for new technology to catch on. Who is going to want to dwld and set up an app. unless there is some type of benefit in it for them. The more places that have it the more likely it will get used. I've probably had 10 people register and use it so far. which is good, mainly since I haven't tried to promote it at all.

    I've been meaning to print price cards for the machine using this device. Pick a slower day and maybe bring in a few people. even if the games are a little cheaper it makes up for it if the location can make more. Also that's probably money you weren't gonna make in the first place.

    my gripe's are now it adds another step to my collection days, I also wish there was a way to create a mass schedule modifier for multiple games. It's a pain in the ass to have to go to each individual game and set a pricing schedule for a certain time and date.
    Who knows maybe it won't pan out, I can say I tried.

    #43 3 years ago

    i have 8 used units for sale if anyone needs em. im getting bill acceptor/ card readers system for all of the games so i wont need these anymore. some customers did like using the payrange units btw. message me. ill cut you a good deal on all 8 units.

    8 months later
    #44 2 years ago

    Very interested in what is best system for pins and skee balls. Easy and security of use for players comes first!

    #45 2 years ago

    I like using PayRange. It works pretty easily.

    #46 2 years ago

    I love using Payrange here. It's been a long time since I've used actual money in games and on more than one occasion I didn't have any cash and wouldn't have been able to play if it wasn't for Payrange. I love getting a free game after 7 games played, plus a slightly reduced rate for using Payrange too.

    #47 2 years ago

    I love payrange. I always have my phone on me but dont always have cash. Plus the perks of lower cost games and freebies for playing enough is incentive to download the app. Frankly I'm shocked everyone isnt using them. Less risk for operators with no money sitting in the pins and cheaper games for players. Win win. I wish every route pin had payrange.

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from T-800:

    I love payrange. I always have my phone on me but dont always have cash. Plus the perks of lower cost games and freebies for playing enough is incentive to download the app. Frankly I'm shocked everyone isnt using them. Less risk for operators with no money sitting in the pins and cheaper games for players. Win win. I wish every route pin had payrange.

    Unfortunately margins are already razor thin and their business model of taking a forever percentage is tough. You are also giving up data and the units are not cheap.

    Ime, they have not brought in any extra cash.

    It really comes down to business. If everyone used it and we could stop having to deal with coins and cash, that would be great. Reality is cash is still king. Tbt, an operator would be better off investing in a change machine. If a big enough location then they should get an atm also.

    We have payrange on about half our games and while a convienience i would advise against the investment currently.
    They could add some bomus things to the software to make me like it more. Mostly, would be the ability for us to deal out free credits with no percentage collected. This would allow us toeasily have the bar runspecials were they could do, buy a beer get a free game. We could then track the free game usage and make sure it is not abused.

    1 week later
    #49 2 years ago

    It's literally the best thing we ever did. We have more PayRange than Quarters and Cash these days making things so much easier. Running 2 for $1 specials also creates instant income for us. For ops that don't see it working for them, they need to advertise and push the model. We promoted extremely hard before we started seeing the reward. the small percentage is easily made up in our locations.

    #50 2 years ago

    First let me say these are a great idea, and I was all for them but they really need to work on their software to add more features for the operator.
    I've had these on my machines for about a year now, The things I don't like about them is in order to set special pricing, for lets say a tournament you have to go to each individual game and set the schedule for it, seems like it would be better if you could select the machines you wanted to modify and group set them to a different pay schedule. Also they can be a little glitchy.

    Like whysnow said, it would be one thing if you didn't have to collect cash and coin anymore, but since that is still 95% of what's used it seems a little pointless as far as saving time. You actually need to log on to the site to take off their fees & discounts from your earning, which makes it take longer.

    I only have 12 games and 2 vending machines that currently that use it, but it would be a pain in the ass if you had say, 20 or more at one location you wanted to set special pricing on for an event. I talked to the payrange people about this on three different occasions and they say the same thing " we will pass it along to our developers team". I'm probably going to nix special pricing and just give away prize money or something, to much of a pain to deal with in that respect.

    at the main place we have an ATM and 2 change machines so maybe that's why they don't get used as much? The atm goes though a lot of money every week, but only gives out 20's. I was thinking about getting a bill to bill changer, sucks they start out at 5k. Think it might be worth it though.

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