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(Topic ID: 258246)

Paypal - Seller Beware - Refund of payment - Fees go to seller


By Barakawins1

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 60 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by phil-lee
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 10 months ago

    Be very careful.. Especially, if you have a linked bank account to paypal. In my situation, seller did not pay as friends and family. I immediately refunded payment as I
    did not want to experience any possible paypal issues. Next, paypal took out the full amount of the sale from my bank account, took $98.90 for their fees and put
    the remaining amount of the returned sale amount into available paypal funds. This is a very deceptive practice which is not acceptable. I issued the buyer a refund immediately. There was no exchange of money so Paypal should not be allowed to take from anyone's account.

    Your best bet is to either not use paypal or do not link any bank accounts at all. You can dispute the charge with your credit card company. This is highway robbery.

    #2 10 months ago

    you have to transfer their transaction fee to paypal balance first if you dont already have a balance then it wont use your account once the paypal balance is enough. the last one i did it was 30 cents on a $2000 payment?. i havent seen them keep the whole fee just a transaction charge

    #3 10 months ago

    Yep it sucks...

    Every once in a while I get someone that buys something than they change there mind later and ask for a refund. When I process the refund buyer gets full amount back but I lose the paypal feel. This started in the last 3-6 months or so. Its tempting to start making the buyer eat the fee instead of me the seller when a buyer requests a refund for a reason not caused by me the seller... like they just changed their mind or whatever.

    At least if you are business you can call that a loss, but sucks even harder for just individual selling on paypal.

    #4 10 months ago

    PayPal has a new policy in place, just implemented past month or so. If you refund a buyer, no matter the reason, PayPal keeps the initial fees. It’s crap.

    #5 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Especially, if you have a linked bank account to paypal.

    Yep, that's about as bad as having any of your bills on autopay.

    If you have paypal, I'd say give them as little ways as possible to get their hooks in your money

    #6 10 months ago

    Keep in mind, the friends and family offers NO protection from reversal. Only difference is sender pays the fees initially.

    #7 10 months ago

    What really urks me is that paypal doesn't just take out the fee from the seller's bank, they take out the entire refund amount. For example if you received
    $1000 from a sale and refund this amount immediately for whatever reason, paypal takes $1000 out of your bank account, deducts $20 for their transaction
    and then takes $980.00 and places it in your available paypal funds. That's what's not correct. They should not have the ability to handle your money and place
    it into paypal's available balance fund for their benefit.

    #8 10 months ago

    If you dont link your bank account, then how do you get the transaction funds out?

    #9 10 months ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    If you dont link your bank account, then how do you get the transaction funds out?

    I do believe they charge your credi card if you dont have bank account linked

    #10 10 months ago

    They will charge your credit card for their fees. When that happens you file a dispute with your credit card company. At least you have repercussions.

    #11 10 months ago

    You'll have to advise the buyer that if payment is not made as friends and family you'll have to reject the sale and the fees paypal charges will have to be covered
    by them.

    #12 10 months ago

    Simple. Only use paypal for purchases and don't link your bank account.

    Or better yet, don't use them at all.

    #13 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    For example if you received
    $1000 from a sale and refund this amount immediately for whatever reason, paypal takes $1000 out of your bank account, deducts $20 for their transaction
    and then takes $980.00 and places it in your available paypal funds. That's what's not correct. They should not have the ability to handle your money and place
    it into paypal's available balance fund for their benefit.

    Aside from the PP fee, all you have to do is go in to PP and transfer the money back to your account. If you sold something you would have to transfer that sales transaction into your bank account as well.

    I'm thinking PP needs to transfer the entire amount in order to get their fee. Otherwise, PP would come in, take $20.00 from your account and there would be no way for PP to say why it as making a $20.00 grab from your account.

    #14 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    You'll have to advise the buyer that if payment is not made as friends and family you'll have to reject the sale and the fees paypal charges will have to be covered
    by them.

    Go back and read what you wrote. You are talking about a business transaction. Something you are selling. Correct?

    And now you are going to tell your buyer if he does not do F&F you are going to reject the sale ?? This sounds like you are trying to beat PP out of its fee. What am I missing?

    #16 10 months ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    If you dont link your bank account, then how do you get the transaction funds out?

    Exactly. My new experience with PP is that I did get a refund from a seller. Then PP advises me I have money in my account that I need to receive. I used to leave funds in my PP account regularly. OK. So I go to receive the money and PP will not let me do that unless I provide my social security number. Fuck that. So my only option is to transfer the funds back to my bank. I don't have a problem with that.

    EDIT: I don't know what fees the seller got stuck with but I got a full refund of my purchase price + shipping.

    #17 10 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    This sounds like you are trying to beat PP out of its fee. What am I missing?

    No, I'm not beating paypal from their fee. If the buyer pays as friends and family, the buyer inherits the fee, not the seller.

    #18 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    No, I'm not beating paypal from their fee. If the buyer pays as friends and family, the buyer inherits the fee, not the seller.

    Not true. There is no fee on F&F payments unless the remitter funds the transaction with a credit card.

    #19 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    No, I'm not beating paypal from their fee. If the buyer pays as friends and family, the buyer inherits the fee, not the seller.

    Wait a minute. If I F&F someone $50.00 they get $50.00. There is no fee for F&F that I am aware of.

    You are talking about making a sale and using an F&F fee free transaction to make your sale and avoid the sales fee. Correct? Yes? No?

    #20 10 months ago

    Don’t use PayPal. Ever.
    Cash on the glass. CASH!

    #21 10 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Wait a minute. If I F&F someone $50.00 they get $50.00. There is no fee for F&F that I am aware of.

    You are talking about making a sale and using an F&F fee free transaction to make your sale and avoid the sales fee. Correct? Yes? No?

    Basically, I'm asking for my selling price, if that makes it simple. Whether it's sent as friends family or the buyer wishes to pay more, that's up to the buyer as long
    as my price is covered.

    #22 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Basically, I'm asking for my selling price, if that makes it simple. Whether it's sent as friends family or the buyer wishes to pay more, that's up to the buyer as long
    as my price is covered.

    I think more context is needed. If you're regularly selling things online, the fees are just a cost of doing business. If it's a once a year transaction on a pinball machine, usually the seller expects their full asking price after any and all fees.

    #23 10 months ago

    Honestly if you refund payment immediately for whatever reason, especially immediately, there should be zero fees taken out from the seller or buyer. The transaction never took place.

    #24 10 months ago

    Nope. PayPal does not refund the transaction fee.

    #25 10 months ago

    Just don’t accept PayPal... It’s fine for sending little Johnny a hundred bucks at Xmas time, but completely unfair for sellers when the buyer wants to be shitty. Sad but true. I make pin buyers put cash on the glass, and yes, several have arrived from out of state to do so. It’s fair for everybody.

    #26 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Basically, I'm asking for my selling price, if that makes it simple. Whether it's sent as friends family or the buyer wishes to pay more, that's up to the buyer as long
    as my price is covered.

    You would need to recompute your selling price and add PP's 2.9% fee. So, a $3000.00 pin becomes a $3087.00 pin. And now you and the buyer negotiate. Or you do F&F and take your chances.

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    I remember when EBay just charged a commission on the sales price. Then you started seeing these auctions to buy a Cadillac for $10.00 plus a $5,000.00 shipping fee. So, now Ebay charges commission for the shipping price, too!

    #27 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Honestly if you refund payment immediately for whatever reason, especially immediately, there should be zero fees taken out from the seller or buyer. The transaction never took place.

    A payment processing transaction still took place and that's going to cost somebody something (a credit card was charged, money was transferred to a recipient, etc). Paypal used to just eat the cost themselves, but they've stopped.

    #28 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Honestly if you refund payment immediately for whatever reason, especially immediately, there should be zero fees taken out from the seller or buyer. The transaction never took place.

    Define "immediately". 5 minutes? 15 minutes? One hour? One day?

    Assume for a moment that instead of a mindless computer handling your transaction, that it was a human being who gets a paycheck for handling transactions. You used his services. Twice. Once to make the sale. And once to reverse it. And he is to work for free?

    PP charges fees for its services. You know that going in.

    #29 10 months ago

    No more paypal for me. Cash on the glass.. I'll only use it for purchasing and nothing else. No bank account link to paypal either. Enough said.

    #30 10 months ago
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    #31 10 months ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    If you dont link your bank account, then how do you get the transaction funds out?

    Simply ask to have paypal send you a check. Costs like .20 but really worth it to avoid the hassles that the op has shared. Vid1900 advised unlinking your Paypal account to any bank accounts in one of his very helpful posts a while back

    #32 10 months ago

    Didn’t know there was a physical check option. Unlinking now!

    #33 10 months ago
    Quoted from GPS:

    Simply ask to have paypal send you a check. Costs like .20 but really worth it to avoid the hassles that the op has shared. Vid1900 advised unlinking your Paypal account to any bank accounts in one of his very helpful posts a while back

    Cost like $1.50 and max per month I can get out is $1000 less that $1.50. Because I give them as little as possible to go on.

    Or you can gift it out in larger amounts without any fees up to your balance according to their user agreement. Which they will totally disregard and call it a glitch in their system until you waste a half a day on the phone with them and finally break down and give them more info than the user agreement requires or link it to your bank account.

    There is nobody at paypal to talk to that can fix what is built into their system to disregard their own user agreement.

    Didn't need some like vid to tell me that.

    I won't use paypal for any more than a couple hundred dollars either way any more. And sure as hell am not giving them my social security #. Or linking it to anything beyond a credit card.

    #34 10 months ago

    I Boycott paypal due to their corporate policies and nefarious ways of chiseling money out of people. Ebay suffers from being aligned with these gangsters.

    #35 10 months ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    I Boycott paypal due to their corporate policies and nefarious ways of chiseling money out of people. Ebay suffers from being aligned with these gangsters.

    And I my friend am with you!! Boycott all the way!

    #36 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    No more paypal for me. Cash on the glass.. I'll only use it for purchasing and nothing else. No bank account link to paypal either. Enough said.

    If you want to sell a pin, just use a bank wire. All of the risk is on the buyer. I have bought 2 pins like this. The bank only charged me $20.00 for the transaction. Once the money is transferred into your account only you can touch it.

    As a buyer you want to make damn sure that you can trust your seller because a shady seller can stick it to you. I had good creds on both of the sellers for the pins I bought.

    As a seller, I would not hesitate one bit to accepting a bank wire.

    #37 10 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    At least you have repercussions.

    And recourse too :eyeroll:

    #38 10 months ago

    I keep a paypal account for small purchases off eBay and some pinball parts purchases. Very convenient for that.

    But I found out how evil they are when I accepted $4000 for a pinball machine that I just wanted to see gone and that is the only way the buyer who I trusted was willing to pay, fees and all. And then I could not get it out as per the user agreement. So I learned and never did that again.

    At one point my account was so jacked I could not use friends and family at all. So the rep I talked with was very helpful and told me to just close the account and start over. Been fine for my occasional menial purchases and gifts ever since.

    It's also risky putting your credit card out there for grabs, so you kinda gotta pick your poison on long distance purchases from people you do not know.

    #39 10 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Yep, that's about as bad as having any of your bills on autopay.

    I loathe auto-pay.

    I thought I would join the "Y" so I could use the swimming pool and get some exercise. Nope. They wanted monthly access to my bank account, I said, "How about I write you a check for the entire year upfront?" Nope. They would not budge. And I would not budge.

    I have always wondered how many of these places have a business model where they are hoping you quit coming and add no wear to the equipments but they also hope also forget to turn your bank account off. And that you never look at your statements. The Phantom Customer.

    -1
    #40 10 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I have always wondered how many of these places have a business model where they are hoping you quit coming add no wear to the equipments but they also hope also forget to turn your bank account off. And that you never look at your statements. The Phantom Customer.

    Once you try to quit something on autopay, it's like a steamroller already going full speed ahead. Good luck with that.

    #41 10 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I keep a paypal account for small purchases off eBay and some pinball parts purchases. Very convenient for that.
    But I found out how evil they are when I accepted $4000 for a pinball machine that I just wanted to see gone and that is the only way the buyer who I trusted was willing to pay, fees and all. And then I could not get it out as per the user agreement. So I learned and never did that again.
    At one point my account was so jacked I could not use friends and family at all. So the rep I talked with was very helpful and told me to just close the account and start over. Been fine for my occasional menial purchases and gifts ever since.
    It's also risky putting your credit card out there for grabs, so you kinda gotta pick your poison on long distance purchases from people you do not know.

    I received a $5000 payment for a pin had to wait 14days for funds to be available after the wait they still won't allow me transfer the money, spent mins to get through to a customer care lady, not that it was helpful had to refund the money. since buyer had received his pin already he wired money. Never again would i use them.

    #42 10 months ago

    In summary, I recommend don't use paypal for large transactions. But they are very convenient when a set of pads and rotors are under $50 for that piece of shit your daughter insists on driving.

    #43 10 months ago

    Do you have etransfer down south?
    If so why not just use that

    #44 9 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    If you want to sell a pin, just use a bank wire. All of the risk is on the buyer. I have bought 2 pins like this. The bank only charged me $20.00 for the transaction. Once the money is transferred into your account only you can touch it.
    As a buyer you want to make damn sure that you can trust your seller because a shady seller can stick it to you. I had good creds on both of the sellers for the pins I bought.
    As a seller, I would not hesitate one bit to accepting a bank wire.

    If buyer overnights a check to your bank and you don't check the transaction record to see it was a check, you can still get screwed. That's because some people could see their balance go up, assume it was the wire, send the item, then the check bounces. Read this in Vid's guide.

    #45 9 months ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Honestly if you refund payment immediately for whatever reason, especially immediately, there should be zero fees taken out from the seller or buyer. The transaction never took place.

    Why? Did the work PayPal do to process the original transaction get undone? Now they are doing an extra transaction to process a refund.

    Should they do that for free?

    #46 9 months ago

    Never accept PayPal for a large payment. Cash or bank wire transfer only. Small businesses, like ours, are hostage to PayPal. We are charged PayPal fees for returns. Vid discusses all of this in his thread.

    #47 9 months ago

    There's a lot of PayPal paranoia here. No I wouldn't want to risk it on $5000-10000 pinball machines regularly, but for buying and selling smaller stuff it's a must. I've had a home e-commerce business for over 20 years now. In that time I've sent and received a couple million in payments. I was around back in the days when I received a stack of checks and money orders in the mail every day. I'd never want to go back to that hassle. If you gain 100 customers by accepting PayPal, but 1 of those customers ends up scamming you, you're still going to come out ahead with the other 99 you wouldn't have otherwise had.

    #48 9 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I loathe auto-pay.
    I thought I would join the "Y" so I could use the swimming pool and get some exercise. Nope. They wanted monthly access to my back account, I said, "How about I write you a check for the entire year upfront?" Nope. They would not budge. And I would not budge.
    I have always wondered how many of these places have a business model where they are hoping you quit coming add no wear to the equipments but they also hope also forget to turn your bank account off. And that you never look at your statements. The Phantom Customer.

    I agree for the most part. I hate most things that have a monthly fee in general. I think the only thing I have on auto-pay is my cable/phone/internet bundle. I'm ok with that one. I use it every day. I know I'm paying for it. I have no plans to get rid of it, and I think they might give a discount for auto pay.

    #49 9 months ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Why? Did the work PayPal do to process the original transaction get undone? Now they are doing an extra transaction to process a refund.

    Should they do that for free?

    Yes. They should do that for free. I'll give you an example as to why and how. A buyer sends you payment for $5000. It should only be $500. An honest seller
    refunds this payment immediately. However, the way paypal works is they nail the seller for the buyer's mistake and in this case charge the seller 2.9% and .30
    or $145.30 immediately because of the seller's mistake. They are basing their fee on a fictitious sale amount. So, because the buyer makes the mistake and
    the seller makes the refund in a second, the seller loses $145.30 in a second. This is wrong at all levels. There should be a standard transaction fee which is not
    based on the amount of a sale. Next, paypal should not be allowed to remove $5000 from your bank account and place it into your paypal balance, less the fees
    they deducted. They should only be able to deduct a processing fee. This is why no one should link their bank account.

    #50 9 months ago

    My daughter needed some money & she’s in a different state so she told me to use zelle which I used through my Chase account but I think both parties have to be chase customers. No fees but I don’t know all the in & outs/limits even if both parties happened to have chase accounts on a pin sale

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