I had this exact thing happen to me. What they do is ship something to the same zip code as you and that's all Paypal and eBay needs to close the claim and say it was delivered. It took a while but I finally proved the package was not delivered to MY address. I actually had to get a three way phone call going with a rep from Paypal AND FedEx! It was a nightmare and was for a lot of money but ultimately worked out, but yeah, this is the new scam, ship something to ANY house in your zip area

Yes, even more likely you will be scammed.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide#post-1813448

It was pathetic. She knew exactly what she was doing, so this was obviously not her first rodeo. Unfortunately people aren't big on accountability nowadays.

That's why you never deposit them, you only cash them. If they want to pay with a cashiers check from a bank you don't have locally tell them no dice. Tell them to take the money out of Timbuktu Credit Union and go to Wells Fargo or something to buy one.

Every single day.

This guide is almost 7 years old, but the hits keep on coming....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

Amen to that

I love how people say they will buy on ebay but not sell, or pay with paypal but not accept it for selling. When everyone feels like that there wont be either.

good point

Some people don't like to carry 5 grand in cash around.

It's all about managing YOUR risks intelligently.

YOU might believe that the government requiring seatbelts is infringing on your **constitutional rights** and never wear them. I've been in enough car accidents that I want to minimize MY injury risks and wear them all the time.

YOU might believe that you can be **extra careful** and never have a tablesaw injury. I want to minimize the risks to MY fingers and use a Sawstop tablesaw.

YOU might believe Q, that Bill Gates put mind-control microchips in all the vaccines. I wanted to minimize MY risk of premature death, and got vaccinated.

YOU might believe that Vishnu is protecting you from ever getting a Paypal chargeback. I've seen enough people get ripped off, that I would NEVER accept the risk of taking Paypal.

It's not like you are going to drop it into a stream or something, lol

In Vegas there are scammers everywhere, and no one ever says "Cupcake, I've got to run this 10K up to the safe before I lose it!"

Good point. Carrying large amounts of cash around is unpopular with younger people. Some wouldn't even consider the concept.
I have "Rode Shotgun" for many friends conducting cash transactions (all legal). It's real.
I see desirable machines in Northern Cities I'm not familiar with at great prices.
Then I contemplate driving up there with a wad of cash to get a deal.
Right.
I resist using paypal at all costs. I also ain't going to a high crime city with a wad of cash, where my "shotgun" is illegal.
This is the primary reason I don't have a larger collection. All the good machines at fair prices are everywhere but near by.

Yeah, I guess Paypal is in the process of being certified legally as a bank or something, and as a result they are removing/locking any accounts which they feel could be illicit in nature. It seems that frequently moving large amounts of money into and out of your account via F&F payments is one of their flags. I know a high-end statue collector (Marvel, DC, that sort of thing), that had his Paypal account permanently locked for this reason about a month ago.

So you have to be careful not doing large F&F payments very often. To be safe, you need to use Goods and Services for frequent large transactions, otherwise you risk Paypal deciding to close your account unilaterally.
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I frequently use and accept Paypal for deposits on games that can't be picked up right away. Then both seller and buyer are only risking a small amount of the total cost of the pin.

As far as accepting Paypal payments for the full-amount of a pinball machine. You just need to trust the person sending the payment. Everyone will have their own criteria for who they will trust. But ultimately, if you only accept paypal from people you legitimately trust, then you'll be fine.

Exactly.

Even if the person you trust has had their account hacked; as long as you trust them, you'll be fine

/s

I live near Philadelphia, and I've driven through really shitty parts of Philly with lump sums of cash picking up machines. Its not a great feeling. I've had friends ride with who have concealed carry permits just to feel a little safer. Gets harder when I go to or through DC, because of the gun carry laws ie only the criminals carry them :p

There's nothing wrong with using Paypal as long as you trust the person on the other side of the transaction. Its just been really hard to earn the trust because its tough to find someone to take the payment. But with any deal, paypal or not, if something feels fishy don't do it.

Probably not recommended, but short story is a gentleman wanted a game and made a cash deposit in person and sent the remaining balance via USPS Priority Mail with signature required. Insured for full amount naturally...

The other scenario no one has mentioned is us Military Vets most likely use USAA for their banking. It's on ALL online bank. You can take a picture of a check and deposit $100,000 if you want, but you can't mail them $5,000 in cash as a deposit. Large lumps of cash were actually a pain in the ass for me so I had to open up a US Bank account locally just to turn the cash into 1's and 0's so I could use it for more than just buying a different game. US Bank would be charging me $25 a month to use this account maybe 4 times a year, but fortunately they waive their monthly service fee for Veterans. I've settled on bank wire transfers for payment on games I ship out, and it seems to work fine. Costs them $20, I get the money in about 30 minutes and it gets moved out of the account immediately. But..I'm sure there's some way to get scammed using those too.

I use wire transfers to my reputable distributor but when I pick up a game out of town I go inspect the game and go to a local bank and get the cash after I check out the machine and the new to me seller.

If a buyer doesnt bring cash or go to the bank and get cash he doesnt leave with my game .Its about my comfort not the buyers I pay cash on the glass unless its a distributor and I expect the same in return.

They locked my current account for Goods and Services large transaction too. Literally just happened for the JJ POTC I was selling and buyer did goods and services payment. We ended up doing wire transfer, so I cancelled/refunded the payment and it doesn't matter. Paypal still has my account locked and wants all sorts of information about our transaction even though it was cancelled, or they won't unlock my account.

Doesn't matter if you do FnF or G&S. Paypal is terrible.

Did you get your cabbage from the guy who stopped payment ?

It is going to take a while for sure. Took months for me to get a dispute ruled in my favor and finalized.

Been burnt by PayPal also. Mine was in conjunction with eBay. And since I had a credit card attached to my PayPal account, they just took the refund off my card.

I beat them in the end though by disputing their chargeback with my credit card provider. In the end PayPal couldn’t provide sufficient proof that I authorized the transaction.

Probably already been mentioned in here, but If someone picks up in person you should have them sign for it.

Yes, it has been mentioned many times that paypal does NOT accept any non-digital signatures as proof of delivery.

Or like $20k+ these days

Can you clarify. I’m reading this as PayPal only accepts digital signatures as proof.

But that’s counter to what you replied to yet you started with “yes”.

Sarcasm or ?

Having a person sign in person is NOT proof to paypal that the game was delivered

Nor is a notarized document, video footage, fingerprint, DNA sample.....
-

Simply put, there is no safe way to accept paypal as payment - none.

Pinsiders: WTFU, get vaccinated and quit believing in Q.

I'd like to add one more reason not to use paypal. While talking to my tax guy, he said Paypal (especially in my state) is going to start tracking payments coming in. If you accept more than $20k in a year, you'll get a 1099-k form. This could be for anything, selling a pinball machine, pinball mods, selling a car on ebay. Just saying if you sell a lot of stuff, you might want to start tracking them (even though Paypal keeps a lot of your transactions), or you might consider accepting an alternate service like venmo
https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/how-does-paypal-report-my-sales-to-the-irs-will-i-receive-a-tax-form-1099-k-faq729

A bunch of states require paypal to report @ ~$500 now

Enjoy.

PayPal owns Venmo, their policies aren’t likely to be any more rational.

I think it’s only for goods and services you get the tax reporting, not gifts/ff. Though if you are taking in $20k in gifts, PayPal will come after you anyway.

It’s been like this for a while.... but since I use PayPal for business, I summarize the whole account and give it to my accountant anyway.

I can confirm this. Got my first this year, pretty sure this is the first year of this policy

Holy shit....That's nuts. I send my buddy money for beer that comes up to more than $500 a year. So he would possibly need to report that as "income"?

Not if it’s gift / friends and family which beer Money should be

Yup....sold a car to my nephew on a payment plan. He made last year's payments to me through PP F&F......guess what I got in the mail?

Dear lord

This all sounds like a royal pain in the ass!

Well all be using cash again soon like savages.

becuase something being against the law has always prevented people from doing such thing

OK good - yes, I always send it as gift/F&F. I feel better now, thanks!

So what’s the alternative?

I use PayPal for my rail business and received a 1099 for the first time this year. I’d be happy to tell PayPal to fuck off, but don’t know a better alternative. Most of my transactions are under $100 a pop, but it adds up quick.

There's a reason people use cash...in fact, lots of reasons. Life is much simpler.

On a positive note you may be able to claim him as a dependent on your taxes.

"Friends and Family" should only be used with actual friends and family.

Yeah, I was shocked when I got the 1099 from them.

If you have not already look into register a business. If you are doing enough to generate a 1099 probably should. Keep in mind you pay taxes on your profit, not off the top. Got a month still to find all your expenses.

Might be a reason why Bitcoin continues to climb, it's not just to avoid transaction fees. Nobody can see where your money goes.

the IRS is sniffing hard at bitcoin .get ready to get taxed

Cash is king unless the buyer is a close friend or otherwise completely vetted.