With only reading subject line I have to agree with your post.

I am sorry this happened to you. I was taken a few months ago for $45 and I was pissed and I was the buyer! The company faked a USPS tracking number and that's all paypal needed to close my claim. The real question is how did they find another USPS tracking number to my town to fake it. The post office said they have not seen this before. The weight of item was way off and was to a different address and person. No way of opening the paypal dispute again or speaking with someone. I can't imagine how pissed you are. If you know how to fool paypal it seems scammers can make a lot of money. I will avoid now at all costs. Did you manage to find a phone number and actually speak to someone?

PayPal Friends and Family mean “Friends” and “Family”. Trusted people you know very well. Use it for people that would never do that to you ever.

That sucks! Sorry to hear something like that happening to a good Pinsider. I bought an Astro from you a couple years ago. I offered to pay by direct bank transfer but you said PayPal, so that’s what I did. ( Don’t worry I still like it so I won’t be doing a charge back) Using PayPal gives the buyer way too much power in the transaction. If I’m paying by bank transfer, once my money is in your account it’s going to be way more difficult for me to get it back. Obviously, that means I have to do my homework before I wire someone money!

One of the first steps I believe/think everyone can do is request your bank block automatic withdrawals specifically related to paypal and CC.

Yes, you sign a contract they can do this, but when the money doesnt easily get reversed, they now have to talk to you.

In addition, Ive had to request signatures now on picked up items, in detail, approving condition, quality, as is, final sale, etc.

The last issue like this with Paypal took me 3 months of calling, escalating, and emails to paypal board members, and corp.

It turned any joy into a nightmare. People Lie and cheat with no moral compass these days. They have received new lessons.

It has forced me into selling only the cheap stuff for a while....Losing a couple hundred just last month, as opposed to Thousands.
(People scratching pieces, to claim defect, and getting for free)

Maybe, you have enough in emails, to document receipt, etc?
Sorry you had the stress and burden.

PayPal is trash. They locked my account when someone sent me money and demanded all sorts of ridiculous nonsense to unlock like proof of shipping, invoice for the original purchase of when I bought the pin I was selling, etc.

I wonder what the time limit is for someone to claim they didn't authorize a payment. 3 months seems like a long time to allow that.

PayPal allows 180 days to file a claim.

Irrelevant to PayPal. I sent money to MY WIFE from my PayPal balance and after the transaction was complete and the money withdrawn on her end PayPal changed my funding source, put the money back in my pp account and tried to charge her, claiming I had disputed the transaction.

It’s like they don’t even have a human reading their messages.

Bill of Sale.

Always make them up (2-3 Copies) and have people sign for anything they pick up in person.

List all details about the Item (serial #), Transaction agreement and (lack of) Warranty.

Remember the 11th Commandment : "Cover Thine Own Ass".

Similar thing happened to me! I even had the buyer contact PayPal to release the funds to me. They wouldn’t budge for 2 months. We finally canceled the transaction and I drove 6 hours to pick up the cash from the buyer. Most insane headache I’ve ever had. Never again will I use PayPal!!!

I am not advocating for PP. but this is a different situation entirely.

As weird as it sounds, there are tracking number mills that exist for the sole purpose of manufacturing valid tracking numbers which appear to have been delivered. Sometime the scammers send empty boxes, sometimes they send worthless crap, and they usually just pick random people to send to. I read all them time about people that get bottle openers or paperclips that they didn't order. (I have gotten a couple myself). The receiver focuses on the paperclips, while the real intent was to establish a valid tracking number to be used elsewhere. Thieves everywhere!!!!

Yeah PayPal has never really been safe, sorry you had this happen to you. Once scammers figure out how to work the policies of the major online businesses to screw people over and get away with it legally, they all start flocking to it. Been screwed over on a few items I sold on eBay cause scammers know they can get away with it since eBay ALWAYS sides with the buyer and leaves the seller totally powerless. I no longer sell anything on eBay.

To be fair, I use PP F&F all the time with people I know. So it's not just the tool (PP), it's the parties involved. Perhaps the title of this thread should say,
"Don't do business with people you don't know"

I would definitely track down this person!

.

I bought a machine from a guy and he had me pay him with Paypal right away before I picked the machine up. It was an embroidery machine not a pin. I went and picked it up and all was fine. About a week later he calls me and asked me to call paypal to release the money to him but I never put a hold on it. I call PP and they say they are holding the money for a while without reason but jumping through hoops I got this poor guy his money the next day. Never again for anything over $500.00

1k and up best to video tape buyer using paypal upon pick up with terms disclosed. Otherwise cash on glass. Pinball is so popular now that paypal isnt needed for game purchases . CASH$$

This is exactly why as a business we stopped using PayPal. We mainly use credit card now with an authorization form. Yeah it’s kind of a pain and an extra step for the buyer, but it’s worth it to protect ourselves from situations exactly like this.

wow ,obviously too much time after receipt of item.1 week would seem generous

Dang, this sucks. I always assumed that as long as it was F&F it was fine on the seller's side. I've never had an issue, but I usually only sell to people I don't know via F&F if I know of them in the community, or they have good reviews and have been a trusted Pinsider for some time. Anyone new to the site or rando off Facebook or something, there's no way. But, this is good information to have going forward.

did you have the money just sitting in your PayPal account?

I think they have a direct link to your bank account now.not for me

I literally HATE PAYPAL and could write a book why. Use anything else.

I only use PayPal with people I know and trust.

sorry this happened to you my friend

Nope, it's not foolproof. Required reading:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

Funny cuz a guy at work got scammed by a woman who said she would do things for him if he paid. He sent a F&F for $45 and she immediately blocked him.

Now I can’t stand this guy and think he’s an absolute knobhead but I still advised him to dispute it seeing as all this stuff on Pinside makes it sound easy.

PayPal DENIED his chargeback and said the transaction DIDN’T SEEM FRAUDULENT! I laughed my ass off but I felt sorry. It was clearly a scam and although he was stupid to think a prostitute would be so cheap, I felt bad for him that even PayPal screwed him over!!

Moral of the story: PayPal has no rhyme or reason and screws over buyers and sellers at random for no reason. Cash only and make sure you have plenty of proof.

Paid once.

Got screwed twice.

The lesson here is make sure you have proof of purchase. You can get scammed with cash too.

Thanks for the heads up. I got to say I've never had a bad PayPal transaction yet. Maybe I've just been lucky

I had someone messag me about a pin I have for sale, asking if I would take PayPal and ship the game. Told them I don't trust electronic payments like that. I would be open to a cashiers check or wire transfer and discuss shipping arrangements.

Never heard a thing back.

Guessing I avoided a scam?

Not being funny, and playing Devils Advocate somewhat, but PayPal provides a payment mechanism for buying goods and services. You have to explicitly choose for it to be a Friends & Family payment.

If you choose to use that because it avoids fees, then that’s the risk you take. If it had been done as a goods or services payment you would’ve had avenues to get support etc. Clearly this random person you sold the pin to was neither a friend nor family.

I wish this were the case. No matter what hoops you jump through, PayPal is siding with the buyer 99% of the time. It might help, but it's far from a guarantee.

If you have a Bill of Sale you have recourse outside of PayPal.

PinsideBillofSale.pdf - There may not be a file for download today, but something to keep everyone on the same page could be a community benefit.

Yes. No issues. Paypal works great if used properly.

Bill of sale does not constitute proof of purchase for PayPal. I got this interpretation straight from a PayPal rep. A buyer can still charge back on an in person pick up with a bill of sale, and PayPal will still side with the buyer. Matter of fact, the rep told me straight up not to use PayPal for that type of transaction anymore.

Cash only for in person transactions. There should be no reason for a buyer not to provide cash at pickup.

Crypto. Low fees, irreversible, and there are coins that mimic the dollar so no wild fluctuations in value. Mechanism for use almost identical to PP.

Bingo!

I always insist on cash for in person (as you say). For remote purchases, I prefer receiving a cashiers check. I stay away from PayPal, however have been lucky so far for the small number of transactions, and I always do a Bill of Sale.

JethroP

I’m sorry to hear that you were scammed. Please share the scammers name, email address and Pinside name (if it was a Pinsider). This will hopefully keep someone else from being scammed.

The buyer probably thought you were scamming him

That's too funny. I have a game for sale, with pictures and description, and I'm the scammer? Lmao.

Share to everyone everything about the buyer that you know was real.

Name. Pinside ID (or other).
Wherabouts
Conversations prior to sale.

You may not get your money back, but we can make the son of a bitch miserable and spare any future victims.

You are correct about PayPal: No good - especially now.
Strangers:
USPS money orders--1K limit so you need multiples sometimes (falsifying names when buying those is a federal offense) - good as cash.
Walmart Money order -
Wells Fargo Money order.

Cash and a cash marker is the way. Also, thanks for posting OP. Sucks PayPal is garbage but your experience helps others.

A lot of scammers use pictures from previous sales. Since he’s new, how would he know that you’re not a scammer? He wouldn’t know to check your feedback, ask for references, etc.