Payouts carnival,queen


By Lambecka

3 months ago


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    #1 3 months ago

    Have the following problem with payouts of my carnival queen. The inline scoring formthe different colors on 3 , 4, or 5 inline are correct and payouts as they need to be.
    Problem starts with section scoring for the different colors specialy the red , blue and yellow booster scoring.
    When scoring fe yellow with stripes two,balls in the section, no payment, scoring three it pays but not enough.
    Same applies when scoring the other special sectio score.
    What is the difference if scoring in line or section? And where to look at?

    #2 3 months ago

    inline scoring uses the search wipers to power search relays. If 3+ adjacent search relays power at the same time, it's a win.

    section scoring only uses the search wipers/search relays to detect if at least one ball is in certain holes in a section. If there is a ball, the sequence unit is stepped and looks at each hole in the section for a ball. If a ball is found in the hole being examined, the winner unit is stepped up. When the winner unit steps 3+ times (or 2+ for super-blue), it's a win.

    the red and yellow super-sections just step the winner unit once at sequence unit step 1 - no ball required. See schem around B15. If that's not working, the only thing in the circuit is score booster trip relay switches, search disc H wipers (manual page 49) and the B wiper/rivet connection to wire 13-1 at step 1 on the sequence unit.

    blue scoring is like normal section scoring, but a little fiddling is done around the winner unit at schem H18. If the blue score booster trip relay is tripped for 2-in-blue, the winner unit at step 2 connects to the 5-pay wire 61-3 thru search disc wipers A. If the blue score booster relay isn't tripped, the winner unit needs to step 3 times for the connection to wire 61-3 ... and yeah, the little box on the schematic isn't good at showing that, but wiper A on the winner unit diagram verifies.

    check all those wiper/rivet locations on the search disc, winner unit, sequence unit and the red/yellow/blue trip relay switches.

    #3 3 months ago

    Cleaned al the mentioned things , and lot of improvement strange is by checking if all the payouts are correct tried to get the machine on the yellow with stripes option, but not given.
    The oprion red with stripes no problem during charging the machine the lights for,booster red already flashes, but the yellow,booster don,t
    Can put as much coins in but never get the option yellow booster, where to,look at??

    #4 3 months ago

    you can't have the red and yellow super-sections enabled at the same time. If the red score booster trip relay trips to enable the red super-section, the R5 switch (manual page 54) will open and the yellow super-section light won't flash during machine cycling.

    if the red super-section isn't enabled and the yellow super-section lamp doesn't flash, check the R5 switch on the red super-section trip relay ... and the lamp/socket.

    the red and yellow super-section lights flashing during machine cycling doesn't mean anything ... just proves the spotting wipers are spinning around.

    if you get the red super-section to enable occasionally, but the yellow super-section never does, check CU cam switch 9B (alternator cam) and wiper I on the yellow score disc (yank on the wire connecting to the wiper finger...if you pull it off, it was no good anyway).

    if you want to prove the red or yellow super-sections can enable, you can put units in the right positions and/or use jumper wires around them. The biggest factor is the spotting disc - the wipers need to stop in a place to connect wire 51-7 to 61-7 (wiper C). That only happens at 4 of 50 possible positions, and that needs to happen after at least ABCD is enabled.

    for a basic test, I'd:
    1] reset game
    2] make sure the mixer #4 relay is not powered. If necessary, turn the mixer #4 rotor backwards so it's not. Make sure the wipers don't dig into a rivet edge and bend when turning them backwards.
    3] manually step up the magic screen feature unit to enable ABCD
    4] either jumper wire 51-7 to 61-7 on the spotting disc lugs, or turn the spotting wipers backwards to put wiper C on a 61-6 rivet per the diagram in the manual
    5] lift up the CU 2 switch stack or push down on the top D switch to close the contacts. Either the red or yellow super-score trip relay should trip. Manually reset it.
    6] cycle the machine once to flip the state of CU/alt cam switch 9B
    7] repeat steps 2-5. The other super-section trip relay should trip

    #5 3 months ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    you can't have the red and yellow super-sections enabled at the same time. If the red score booster trip relay trips to enable the red super-section, the R5 switch (manual page 54) will open and the yellow super-section light won't flash during machine cycling.
    if the red super-section isn't enabled and the yellow super-section lamp doesn't flash, check the R5 switch on the red super-section trip relay ... and the lamp/socket.
    the red and yellow super-section lights flashing during machine cycling doesn't mean anything ... just proves the spotting wipers are spinning around.
    if you get the red super-section to enable occasionally, but the yellow super-section never does, check CU cam switch 9B (alternator cam) and wiper I on the yellow score disc (yank on the wire connecting to the wiper finger...if you pull it off, it was no good anyway).
    if you want to prove the red or yellow super-sections can enable, you can put units in the right positions and/or use jumper wires around them. The biggest factor is the spotting disc - the wipers need to stop in a place to connect wire 51-7 to 61-7 (wiper C). That only happens at 4 of 50 possible positions, and that needs to happen after at least ABCD is enabled.
    for a basic test, I'd:
    1] reset game
    2] make sure the mixer #4 relay is not powered. If necessary, turn the mixer #4 rotor backwards so it's not. Make sure the wipers don't dig into a rivet edge and bend when turning them backwards.
    3] manually step up the magic screen feature unit to enable ABCD
    4] either jumper wire 51-7 to 61-7 on the spotting disc lugs, or turn the spotting wipers backwards to put wiper C on a 61-6 rivet per the diagram in the manual
    5] lift up the CU 2 switch stack or push down on the top D switch to close the contacts. Either the red or yellow super-score trip relay should trip. Manually reset it.
    6] cycle the machine once to flip the state of CU/alt cam switch 9B
    7] repeat steps 2-5. The other super-section trip relay should trip

    This option works again , R5 was the problem, cleaned and adjusted and bingo.
    Normally this bank needs to have steel protector but on this machine missing so easily can be misadjusted while working on the machine.

    #6 3 months ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    inline scoring uses the search wipers to power search relays. If 3+ adjacent search relays power at the same time, it's a win.
    section scoring only uses the search wipers/search relays to detect if at least one ball is in certain holes in a section. If there is a ball, the sequence unit is stepped and looks at each hole in the section for a ball. If a ball is found in the hole being examined, the winner unit is stepped up. When the winner unit steps 3+ times (or 2+ for super-blue), it's a win.
    the red and yellow super-sections just step the winner unit once at sequence unit step 1 - no ball required. See schem around B15. If that's not working, the only thing in the circuit is score booster trip relay switches, search disc H wipers (manual page 49) and the B wiper/rivet connection to wire 13-1 at step 1 on the sequence unit.
    blue scoring is like normal section scoring, but a little fiddling is done around the winner unit at schem H18. If the blue score booster trip relay is tripped for 2-in-blue, the winner unit at step 2 connects to the 5-pay wire 61-3 thru search disc wipers A. If the blue score booster relay isn't tripped, the winner unit needs to step 3 times for the connection to wire 61-3 ... and yeah, the little box on the schematic isn't good at showing that, but wiper A on the winner unit diagram verifies.
    check all those wiper/rivet locations on the search disc, winner unit, sequence unit and the red/yellow/blue trip relay switches.

    Still working on this problem.
    The inline scoring and payouts are ok no problem, may i conclude that the search disc and wipers are ok ???
    The section scoring still have problems, in a win situation no payoffs, but if i push the R button a few times it starts to pay off. The sequence unit and winner unit are moving , also the search disks is moving, but ends up at start position.
    Seems to e me that the search unit is the problem??
    Blue scoring works
    Booster red and yellow same problem, need to,cycle with the R button to get the credits

    #7 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lambecka:

    Still working on this problem.
    The inline scoring and payouts are ok no problem, may i conclude that the search disc and wipers are ok ???

    maybe. It's possible that the search disk is cruddy in the area that is checking for section wins. More rarely, the search disc can be a little warped and the wipers don't make good contact in some spots, but that's not likely.

    easiest thing is just clean all the rivets on the search disc and make sure the wipers are making good contact - use your fingernail to lift them a little and make sure they "plink" back down

    blue scoring IS a section score, so if that works reliably, the only unique things are the position of the wipers/rivets on the search disc and the wiper B connection to rivet 21 on winner unit at the third step (see winner unit diagram in manual). Make sure that rivet connection is good.

    is section scoring any better with 4+ balls in the section?

    if blue scoring is also flaky, watch from the back and make sure the winner unit steps up the right number of times (once per ball in hole, +1 extra for the super-sections). If the winner unit steps correctly, check search index switch 19A. The search index switches are fiddly as the stack doesn't move a lot and the bakelite tab poking off the relay armature that lifts the switches tends to bend/warp over time.

    when you push the R-button, the search wipers release, spin 360 degrees and relock again. The sequence and winner units only do something if the sections are in play and a ball is in one of the section holes that activates one of search relays 1-4.

    #8 3 months ago

    section scoring is indeed better with 4+ ball section. What conclusion can we get from that??

    #9 3 months ago

    if 4+ in section always works and pays the right amount, the only difference for a 3-in-section is wiper B on the winner unit...make sure the rivet labelled 21 on the inner ring at position 9 is clean, make sure wiper B contact is good and wiper finger has good pressure on the rivet.

    You can also use an ohmmeter to verify the rivet is connected to the wire lug labelled 21...it's not likely but the spaghetti wire between the rivet and lug could have an issue. Do the ohmmeter measurement with the unit reset ... you don't want wiper A or B touching a 21 rivet or you'll get other circuit paths involved.

    wu (resized).png

    #10 3 months ago

    Section 4plus is not always good but better than 3, but always pushing button R manytimes and when lucky it starts to give the credits.
    Cleaned the winner disk rivets and all the others , they shining like gold. Did the check on 21 with ohm meter and are ok.
    Checkd the switches 19 a b c from search index.
    Looked in the cabinet while machine pays off a line score and can see the the search index retracts during pay off.
    When i do the same with a section score see it retracts only a second, if i keep it retrackting with the help of screwdrewer it starts to pay off.

    Situation on this moment.
    All line scores 100%
    Sectionscores on green only now and then if lucky and pressing r buttn many times
    Sectionscore on red and yellow all te same.
    Blue soring now and then
    Booster yellow and red difficult on 3 plus but better on 4 and 5plus.

    Search disc checked rivets and the all have power enough to push against the plate and also it finds the combination while scoring in line.
    Still have the feeling that the problem must be in this area, what about the position of the magic screen? And what can i do to check if that one is working fine.
    Reason you dont need this screen for line scoring and it works.
    Problem starts as soon as this screen is moving and you make winning combination
    Your thoughts please

    #11 3 months ago

    most of the stuff I wrote in previous posts assumed the search wipers were stopping and the sequence/winner units correctly stepping....oops.

    payout can be divided into win detection and actual pay.

    for a section, win detection means the search index coil has powered and is holding the wipers on the search disc rivets while the sequence unit steps up and steps the winner unit.

    if the search index coil is powering briefly and letting go before the sequence unit does anything/completes it's stepping all the way up, possible causes are:

    - the search wipers are barely on the edges of the rivets when the wipers are being held. You need to loosen the search index unit and nudge it forward a little on the metal shelf. You want the wiper contacts to be around 2/3 of the way across the rivet when being held

    - a switch in the section win detection circuit is barely making contact or is cruddy. The usual culprits are CU cam 16A and 16B "changeover" switches that flip the circuit between inline and section detection/payout. Could also be the sequence unit close at zero switch on the side of the sequence unit.

    the easiest way to check 16A and B is with power off. Remove the backglass, flip down the panel, manually release and spin the search wipers and watch the switch stack being dropped/lifted. The switch blades should move a lot, so should be easy to get the ideal overtravel on the blades after the contacts touch - overtravel meaning the moving blade keeps going after contact touch and moves the stationary blade also - that causes the contacts to wipe across each other and helps scrub the connection.

    usually after the game is over and the before 4th trip relay is tripped, you can manually close any of search relays 1-4 without releasing the search wipers and the sequence unit will step up and the search index coil will power. It depends where the search wipers are locked, but they are typically locked with the contacts around position 2 with the CU 16 switches connecting the section win circuit.

    seqwin (resized).png

    #12 3 months ago

    It must be the search unit because it also,starts with line payouts not given.
    The search ondex coil only retracks a second and hold the wipers also a secon. clearly see the contocts of the wipers are too far and alread more thean 2/3 of the rivets.
    Loosing the bolts does not change anything because fixed holes and disk and wipers are fixed on one rod.
    Start postion of the search unit wipers are ok en contacts exact in the middle

    Y

    #13 3 months ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    usually after the game is over and the before 4th trip relay is tripped, you can manually close any of search relays 1-4 without releasing the search wipers and the sequence unit will step up and the search index coil will power. It depends where the search wipers are locked, but they are typically locked with the contacts around position 2 with the CU 16 switches connecting the section win circuit.

    By doing this the search index coil does not lock, it moves up and down very quick.
    Measure the coil at approx 15 ohm

    #14 3 months ago

    If this helps, I had exactly the same problem on my CQ. The in-line scores were fine, the section scores sometimes worked, sometimes didn't. I thought it was the sequence unit reset plunger. I closed that switch with a clip and it worked for a while, but then not always. After puzzling over this, getting good readings everywhere it turned out the 40-9 wire on the sequence unit reset was a little loose and making when it felt like it. I think the vibration of the stepping unit would throw it off. I resoldered the wire and everything is fine now. If you want to test the search disc, turn off the motors by inserting a piece of paper or something in the tilt trip relay R-2 to cut the power, then set a (in this case) section winner and turn the disc by hand to see if the index locks. If it does, step the sequence unit once by hand. If the search index releases the problem must be somewhere on the sequence unit, either the reset plunger or the open at ninth step switch.

    #15 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lambecka:

    It must be the search unit because it also,starts with line payouts not given.
    The search ondex coil only retracks a second and hold the wipers also a secon. clearly see the contocts of the wipers are too far and alread more thean 2/3 of the rivets.
    Loosing the bolts does not change anything because fixed holes and disk and wipers are fixed on one rod.
    Start postion of the search unit wipers are ok en contacts exact in the middle

    not sure you're looking at the right thing. See red arrows in pic of a silver sails that has the CU switch bar removed.

    the index units have elongated holes in them (you can see on the replay cams unit in the middle). Loosen the two screws with a long screwdriver and you can slide the unit forward/backwards.

    if the search index coil is chattering when you hold down a search relay 1-4, that may or may not be a problem. Since the search wipers are locked, the search index coil armature probably can't seat all the way into a tooth on the metal search ratchet.

    before worrying about that, get the search index unit into a position where the wiper contacts are around 2/3 of the way across the rivets and see if your problems go away. Probably the easiest way is:
    1] power off
    2] manually release search wipers and spin them out of the locked position
    3] loosen the two search index screws
    4] hold down the search index coil armature and turn the search wipers clockwise to seat the armature in a ratchet tooth
    5] while applying a little clockwise torque to the search wipers, slide the search index unit back and forth until the wiper contacts are around 2/3 the way across a rivet. The torque keeps the armature seating in the ratchet tooth.
    6] tighten down the search index unit screws and test. The motor will apply more torque and get the final wiper position more like 3/4+...that's fine. As long as the contacts aren't falling off the rivet edge, you're ok.

    cushelf (resized).jpg

    #16 3 months ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    not sure you're looking at the right thing. See red arrows in pic of a silver sails that has the CU switch bar removed.
    the index units have elongated holes in them (you can see on the replay cams unit in the middle). Loosen the two screws with along screwdriver and you can slide the unit forward/backwards.

    Sorry yes right misunderstanding, iwas in the understanding the search disk.
    Search index yes can be moved forwards, but don,t understand the effect by doing this

    #17 3 months ago

    Moving the search index will affect the placement of the arm that engages the ratchet to stop the wiper. Sliding it back and forth will change the position of the wiper fingers on the search disc in relation to the rivets when it stops. It sometimes takes a lot of work to get it just right. I am still unclear...do your in-line payouts work? Initially I thought you said they were, but then later it sounded like maybe not? If they are paying and sections are not, I wouldn't fool with the positioning of the index until you check the other possible problems.

    #18 3 months ago
    Quoted from Lambecka:

    Sorry yes right misunderstanding, iwas in the understanding the search disk.
    Search index yes can be moved forwards, but don,t understand the effect by doing this

    there's two units that can stop the search wipers from spinning:

    1] the search wiper lock magnet aka search index lock magnet

    nice name ... it's the relay-looking thing directly under the wipers at the edge of the metal shelf that the R-button powers. It's only job is to lock the search wipers in a harmless place so they aren't spinning continuously like in the earlier games. Continuous spinning is noisy and wears down the contacts and search relays.

    this unit is positioned to lock the wiper contacts with the red mark anywhere at position 2 +/- 1/2 (not position 1 as said on the gerlitz video - that won't work on screen games because position 1 rivets are connected to the game circuits). Typically the search wipers are locked between rivets at positions 2-3, and if present, the position of the switch stack above the wipers is adjusted to be sitting up on the peg poking out of the locking cam.

    2] the search index unit

    this guy stops the wipers on winning rivet locations for inline wins, and possibly winning rivets on section wins. As OKO said, the black metal search ratchet/gear is directly connected to the search wiper shaft. Stop the metal ratchet from spinning, you stop the wipers from spinning. When you slide the search index unit forward a little on the metal shelf, the wipers will stop earlier on the rivets (more counter-clockwise).

    if you follow the suggested steps above, there's no guessing. It's easy to find the position needed for the search index unit.

    just in case the term isn't known, the armature is the metal plate the coil pulls down....you stick your finger in next to the switches and push it down onto the coil top. If you spin the search wipers clockwise, the search index unit will slide backwards. Push the index unit forward to get the wipers contacts where you want and tighten down the index unit.

    a symptom of a search index unit that is too far back is the search index coil powering and releasing immediately. If the search index is too far forward, the armature can hit the top of the previous ratchet tooth and cause the wipers to not stop correctly either.

    Other things can cause the search index coil to lose power too fast, but they are less common and more work to find, so do the position check/adjust first.

    #19 3 months ago

    Little,bit desperate
    Situation pay outs line scores no problem everything works as need to be. Changed position of search index coil a bit , but no change. Checked also al, the other mention things
    But problem stays, as soon as there is a winpostion in a section no payoff and search index trips,only a second and does not stop the wipers.
    It stays retrackted and stop the wipers when winning line score.
    What else can be checked, must be a little thing because some times it pays off section score if pushing the R button long enough

    #20 3 months ago

    your problem is likely in the yellow highlighted circuit in the schematic in post #11. One of the switches is not making good contact.

    it's not likely one of the search relay switches since there's four possible/parallel paths past those.

    in your post #13 you didn't say what happened to the sequence unit. If it steps while holding down the search relay, CU 16A is ok.

    you're next test is probably easiest with the motors off. Reset the game and shoot five balls. Doesn't matter where they go. If your timer unit doesn't step up all the way by itself to turn off the motors, step up the timer unit yourself to the top step.

    now the state of the game should be:
    - motors off
    - sequence unit reset
    - search wipers locked

    manually close search relay #1

    if the search index coil doesn't power, manually step up the sequence unit one step and close the search relay again. If the search index coil powers and stays powered, your problem is the close-at-zero switch on the side of the sequence unit (do you know what that is?)

    if the search index coil still doesn't power and stay powered while holding down the search relay, push down/wiggle the switch activated by the reset plunger arm on the sequence unit to make sure it's closed. If still nothing on the search index coil, your problem is almost certainly CU 16B.

    got a voltmeter?

    #21 3 months ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    your problem is likely in the yellow highlighted circuit in the schematic in post #11. One of the switches is not making good contact.
    it's not likely one of the search relay switches since there's four possible/parallel paths past those.
    in your post #13 you didn't say what happened to the sequence unit. If it steps while holding down the search relay, CU 16A is ok.
    you're next test is probably easiest with the motors off. Reset the game and shoot five balls. Doesn't matter where they go. If your timer unit doesn't step up all the way by itself to turn off the motors, step up the timer unit yourself to the top step.
    now the state of the game should be:
    - motors off
    - sequence unit reset
    - search wipers locked
    manually close search relay #1
    if the search index coil doesn't power, manually step up the sequence unit one step and close the search relay again. If the search index coil powers and stays powered, your problem is the close-at-zero switch on the side of the sequence unit (do you know what that is?)
    if the search index coil still doesn't power and stay powered while holding down the search relay, push down/wiggle the switch activated by the reset plunger arm on the sequence unit to make sure it's closed. If still nothing on the search index coil, your problem is almost certainly CU 16B.
    got a voltmeter?

    First yes i have volt meter

    Did the test as per post 13, and.can confirm that te sequens unit stepped.

    Second part of your reply
    Did everything as you noted but in no,any case the search index coil was activated

    Best thing i can do now is to,disassemble the switch stack 16 a and b.
    Visual nothing wrong, so need to examine further in detail

    Albert

    #22 3 months ago

    put the voltmeter probes on wires 70 and 41-9. 70 is the fat orange wire on all the coils except the search relays and the 50V fuse. 41-9 is on the sequence unit wire lugs.

    do the post #20 test setup again (game over, motors off, before 4th selector lock trip relay tripped, sequence unit reset). If you see 50VAC when holding down search relay #1 armature, your problem is CU 16B. If you don't see 50V, it's probably the open-at-top switch on the side of the sequence unit.

    if you want to prove 16B is a problem, move probe from sequence unit to wire 41-9 on a 16B switch blade and verify you still have 50V. Then move that probe to wire 51-8 on 16B (51-8 is the center/moving blade) and see what you get.

    in post #20 I assumed the search index coil will power when the sequence unit is on step 1+. It may not ... depends on the real value of the 15 ohm 10W resistor, the gap between the armature/coil top and tension on the search index unit switches.

    if you didn't have a voltmeter but had a jumper wire, the other way to test is set up machine like in post #20 (with sequence unit reset) and jumper wire 30 to wire 41-9 on the sequence unit. Wire 30 is the fat yellow wire on the transformer that connects to the upper and lower wire lugs on the right side.

    If the search index coil doesn't power, move jumper from 41-9 to 51-8 on the 16B switch and the search index coil should power...proving the issue is the switch contacts on 16B between the center blade with wire 51-8 on it and the blade with wire 41-9 on it.

    #23 3 months ago

    Will,do over the weekend and let you know, but iam quit confindence that we are almost there
    Albert

    #24 3 months ago

    Did the,different tests but everytimes i get different readings,
    Then i started to,disassembling complete stack switches 19 a en b, cleaned them adjusted them and place back with new solders, see pictures
    Problem remain and still the same payouts on line score but no payout section score.
    The wipers behind the magic screen do they give the signal for line or section????
    Also noted that by section scoring and push the r button the sequens unit tries to,step but the reset coil of this unit is energized as well by going up and down

    85A9377B-21F4-4DAF-804D-0B368F4FAE3C (resized).jpeg
    1FA638ED-E4B0-4D11-BC00-996F361B532C (resized).jpeg

    #25 3 months ago

    you should not get different readings with the voltmeter. If the values are changing, either the circuit is "floating" - disconnected - or the meter probes aren't making a good connection. Got pictures of where the probes are, the meter and where the search wipers are positioned?

    if the search index coil doesn't stop the search wipers, the sequence unit will get reset repeatedly as the wipers spin. If you have a game with serial number under 3000, the wiper unit needs to step at least once before the sequence unit reset coil will power. At games 3000+, they shorted a switch on the winner unit and the sequence unit/winner unit reset coils will power multiple times per revolution of the search wipers.

    if you look at the search chart, the sequence/winner units get reset in between each section. E.g. position 23, 19, 15, etc. If you don't have the search chart, download the manual from bingo.cdyn.com. It was a separate piece of paper on carnival queen and it's the last page in that manual pdf.

    just to be clear, my understanding of your situation is:
    1] all inline payouts work
    2] you reset the game, enable ABCD+, shoot balls and set up a win in a section
    3] you have the motors off and manually spin the search wipers to the position to detect the section win you have set up, the search index coil powers and stays powered
    4] if you push the R-button or manually reset the timer unit, the motors turn on, the sequence/winner unit step and the game pays
    5] if you manually reset the replay counter unit for the color that won and push the R-button, the search index coil briefly powers and lets go when the wipers reach the position they should stop on

    if all the above is correct, what happens if you set up a section win, make sure the replay counter unit for that color is reset, motors on (reset timer unit if necessary), manually release the search wipers and slow down their rotation? I usually stick my thumb on one wiper arm edge to stop the rotation then move my hand to let the wipers turn to the position I want.

    #26 89 days ago

    Sorry misunderstanding due,too language problem,
    Different readings i mean sometimes 50v and if i do it again same situation no reading.
    Will send complete,report of what i did and detailed situation as is

    #27 89 days ago
    Quoted from Lambecka:

    Sorry misunderstanding due,too language problem,
    Different readings i mean sometimes 50v and if i do it again same situation no reading.

    that's what you want.

    when you get no or low reading, you move the voltmeter probe up the circuit (on the schematic) and find where the 50V disappears/drops.

    #28 89 days ago

    Serialnumber of the machine is 2047
    There was no drop in voltage it was the full 50 v and when repeating the test it was zero.
    Did all the test again but no any conclusion out of the result.
    Started to approach it from another side , because everything works fine as long as you play for line scoring, but as soon as the magic screen been moved and start scoring sections or the others problem with payouts started and get rare results.
    Examine then big magicscreen unit and found the big pertinax plate was bend in such a way that when screen moves to the left with abcde the wipers came loose from contacts , because of that bending.. In the reset position most of the wipers made good kontakt.
    Simulated a section score and pushed the R button no payout. Then pushed R button again and same time pushed the big pertinax plate in an other position, machine started to,pay out.
    Because of this bending plate a lot of blades do no touch the contact, als the blades cannot be bend to power them,because by doong that it missed the rivet.
    Almost sure this is the problem for all the problems, next step how to,solve

    #29 88 days ago

    the contact plate should not be warped, but if it is it shouldn't be much. Look to see if it's been attached incorrectly and a corner is bent.

    the wipers disc can be removed. Put the screen in the home position and look for red marks that show alignment between the wiper disc and contact plate - or make your own marks.

    Remove three nuts and the wiper disc comes off. Bend the wiper fingers so they poke up more from the disc - that'll help keep contacts on the rivets in the warped area.

    put the wiper disc/nuts back on and align the contacts like they were. Stick your fingers in the screen slats and move the screen on both directions. It won't move much since it's locked in the home position, but make sure the contacts stay on the correct rivets when moving the screen both ways.

    in other words, there's a little variance in where the wipers stop depending on which direction the screen was moving. If you tug the screen in both directions and then leave it in the middle of the movement range, you can center the wiper contacts on the rivets, tighten the nuts and you should be okay.

    #30 88 days ago

    Albert, your Magic Screen Disc(MSD) has marks on the SOLDER LUG,
    in the picture it appears blue/ but you will see it. The MSD has a red
    mark on it.These marks line up(almost) to the POINT that the WIPERS
    are RIGHT on the RIVETS. I am sending some pictures.
    The FIRST picture is a close up of wipers RIGHT on the RIVETS.
    The SECOND ones are of the marks
    The THIRD is proper line up of MSD, WIPERS and RIVOTS
    The LAST pictures are THINGS NOT lined up CORRECTLY!!!
    Hope this helps,
    Terry K

    wipers 1 (resized).JPG
    Lug mark 1 (resized).JPG
    Lug mark 2 (resized).JPG
    Proper line up (resized).JPG
    Proper line up 2 (resized).JPG
    Wipers off 2 (resized).JPG

    #31 88 days ago

    Getting the start position is not the problem the big contactdisk is clearly marked and also a blade of the wiperdisk is marked as well..
    On the carnival queen the MSD is different as the picture. The blades are on the outside dia of the wiperdisk and the contacts of the big contactplate are also very close to teh outside of the square..
    Wiper disk can easily be put in the correct start position, but the blades of the wiperdisk do not contact al the point on the square
    Two problems here
    The big square disk is bended on the corners, because of ?? Heat , age etc
    Some of the blades from the wiper disk been repaired means broken ones are soldered, the one how did it did a bad job here. The repaired ones are very difficult to,bend so,that they poke up more to,the disk.
    I did the best possible and on one of the corners from the contact disk tried to bend it a little in the right position by ti rape it from a fixed point.
    All the different payouts are correct on this moment , but for me a temporarily solution.
    The best is of course to,replace complete unit, but hel of a job due to,all the wires.
    Other solution would be to replace complete wiperdisk with good original blades .
    At least the problem is,solved for this moment and thanks for all the help and advices

    #32 87 days ago

    oops.

    that style of wiper and contact plate was only used on carnival queen, sea island and ballerina, so if you can find a parts head for any of those games, you'll have what you need.

    below is the best picture I have of a carnival queen magic screen unit.

    jim4 (resized).jpg

    ballerina looks like this:

    int-ballerina-13 (resized).jpg

    #33 87 days ago

    Yes exact that is the correct one. You can see the bad solderjob and a broken blade

    6A81A49E-C7E5-40D2-838A-122DB2C5C064 (resized).jpeg

    #34 87 days ago

    The Richard Gerlitz video has a good video on how to repair
    a broken wiper blade of course you need a spare
    wiper blade to work with.
    Terry K

    #35 87 days ago

    email that picture to joe shope - bingo55joe@hotmail.com. He may have the wiper assembly off a parts machine.

    otherwise, maybe start another thread on this site and the bingo uk forum with that picture and ask if anyone has a part head for one of those three games.

    also check with franz at http://ballybingo.nl/

    #36 87 days ago

    Already emailed Joe , he helped me out few times more and is always very helpfull and responsive.
    On this moment the machine runs and payouts are ok, but want to replace the wiper.
    Thanks

    #37 86 days ago

    Lucky me, Joe Shope have a new one Nos available and already on the mail to me .
    Cann,t wait to install

    1C408734-80F3-4C8C-9549-FC9FDECDDDFC (resized).jpeg

    35801D0E-17C0-4F6B-A74A-F744502767AF (resized).jpeg

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