Payout too high on Bally Dude Ranch Bingo


By carlgrantsmith

3 weeks ago


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  • Latest reply 5 days ago by carlgrantsmith
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    #1 21 days ago

    I have a Bally "Dude Ranch" Bingo Pinball (vintage 1953) that I (newbie) am attempting to restore and have run into a brick wall. With the odds at 4/16/96 when I place a 3 inline on the playfield, the search disk stops and the register racks up 4 games. It then will advance slightly and stop and rack up another 3 games. It then will continue to turn in a normal manner. I have checked the switches on the replay cams and they appear to be ok and the score unit appears to advance with the wipers centered on the rivets there. The search relay switches also look ok. The 4 inlines scores are also too high. Any thoughts here would be appreciated!

    #2 21 days ago

    Dude Ranch is a really fun game, congrats!

    My first question - is a five in a line paying correctly?

    Second q - does the three in a line make a three in a line on card #2?

    Third question: have you cleaned your Jones plugs?

    And final question: look at the slip rings attached to the search disc. There are small metal riders on each slip ring. Are those all placed in the correct grooves (one per groove)?

    #3 21 days ago

    Sounds like a magnetized search relay...

    #4 20 days ago

    I would suggest to clean the search wiper disc and adjust the search index unit as described by Phil Hooper.
    It could be the search wipers don't contact in the good way or that the wipers don't have enough pressure on the rivets.

    #5 20 days ago

    Nick, would this be like my machine, in that the search disc wipers
    should be adjusted to land right on the rivets during pays???
    Terry K

    #6 20 days ago

    In response to bingopodcast: Question # 1 = 5 in a line on card 1 is correct at 96, but on card 2 it pays 95, stops and then adds 6 extra for
    a total of 101
    Question # 2 = 3 in a line on card 2 has the same issue as card 1, both pay out an extra 2 or 3 replays,
    4 in a line scores are also too many on both cards
    Question # 3 = the jones plugs have been throughly cleaned and I checked the slip rings

    Thank you for your suggestions, any additional advice is appreciated
    I am inclined to try the suggestion from Bingo Butch regarding a magnetized search relay, how would I correct that to check

    #7 20 days ago

    Terry search disc wipers should not stop dead center on rivits should be a little off

    #8 20 days ago

    Terry, in general, all the games require the wipers to pass over one column of rivets near-simultaneously - not exactly, but pretty darn close. If the disc is out of alignment, it can cause similar issues, but it would be unlikely that it would pay properly to begin with.

    Don't be too quick to rule out just plain ol dirt like Bingobeast suggets, but it's easier to test these other things first.

    tape a small piece of paper under the armature for the relay (the part that touches the exposed metal at the top of the coil). The paper will prevent the metal pieces from touching each other, so when the current stops flowing, the parts will not stick.

    We can rule out search relay #3, but do this on 1, 2, 4 and 5. Knowing the exact positions that this happens would be helpful, but because it's happening on different types of payouts, it's inconclusive (to me) that the position matters.

    If it doesn't happen any more with the taped paper in place, remove one at a time until you find the one that's sticking.

    1 week later
    #9 10 days ago

    if the problem is only on one card, I'd take a look at the replay counter unit for the problem card.

    if the wipers aren't stepping off the end of the printed circuit trace (or are barely off), you may be getting an intermittent win detect again. Kinda depends on what "advance slightly means" ... on the same winning rivets as the payout?

    note that the contact plates/printed circuit trace boards aren't necessarily squarely mounted on the unit frames. If the wipers don't step far enough off the end of the trace, the usual fix is to loosen the three screws fastening the plate to the frame and rotate the plate to reposition the traces relative to the wipers.

    also make sure the wipers are moving freely.

    if the problem is intermittent, manually reset the replay counter and let the game pay again. Watch for arcing between the contact and trace when the payout stops.

    if the problem happens on both cards or the search wipers have moved to a different set of rivets, never mind...your issue is more likely on the search disc or relays the other guys covered above.

    #10 9 days ago

    Hi balttwit, thanks for your interest in my problem. When I said in my original post the search disk would "advance slightly" I was referring to 1 or 2 sets of rivets for the 1 or 2 extra replays. This is happening on both cards 1 and 2. What is also happening intermittently is that on the last one or two extra replays, the replay counter for the Super Card is advancing without that card being lit.The search relays appear to be ok. I have inspected the score unit for any obvious issues such as broken wires or wipers touching each other and it looks ok.
    The next thing I am going to try is to adjust the replay counter trace boards by the 3 screws you mentioned, but I am still puzzled as to how the replay counter for the Super Card could intermittently be involved in this. The search disk has been cleaned.

    #11 9 days ago

    if you're getting power to the 80-10 wire on the search disc, it will cause replay counters to step if the replay cams are still spinning.

    the usual reason for an overpay is a switch on the replay cams index unit being closed when it shouldn't be after a payout (see https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/commonproblems/payout/overpay.html#replayindex - the rounding up case. On Dude Ranch the switches are stack 18, not 16 like in the writeup, but they function the same).

    also see page 205 in the manual for the other adjust that should be checked to help prevent pitting on the replay counter traces.

    I read your first message to mean you checked that, but maybe you just meant the switches on top of the replay cams?

    if the search wipers have left the winning rivets, it's much less likely the problem is coming thru the win detect part of the circuit (search relay switches and replay counter units). You'd need a search relay switch stuck closed or a search relay armature holding from residual magnetism to create a false win detect, and if it was that, you'd typically get false wins anytime, not just a problem with overpay.

    #12 8 days ago

    Partial success - found and repaired one problem. A switch on the replay cams index unit (stack 18) was closed when it should have been open, that is when the index was not energized. Now the machine is paying out an even 5 games for a 3 in line win and for a 4 in line win, it sometimes will pay the correct 16 replays or sometimes 17 replays. I am thinking I need to go over the replay counter next.
    Thank you again for your help.

    #13 7 days ago

    a single credit overpay is more likely to be the wiper<->trace relationship on a replay counter.

    if you look at manual page 185, you have a chart of which cu/replay cam switches are used for the various score levels. You also know from the schem that cu/replay cam stack 14 is stepping the replay register.

    so...payout at score levels 4,5,6 have the replay counter stepping in a 1:1 ratio with adding credits. A +1 payout would imply the wipers aren't stepping off the end of the traces until an extra step of the replay counter is made.

    if you put the scores to the 8 level, tho. the replay cam switch used will be switch 13, and the chart says the payout happens thru the 4 trace. That means cu/replay cam 13 must have 1/2 the number of lobes as cam 14, so the replay counter only steps up once for every two credits added and you'd expect a +2 overpay.

    or put clearly, if you get a +1 overpay at score levels [4,5,6] and a +2 overpay at score levels [8,12], then you need to see why the wipers aren't stepping off the traces at the right time. You can just manually step-up/reset the units and look at what's happening.

    dr (resized).jpg

    #14 5 days ago

    Replays now are all working OK ! Thanks to all who helped with this issue.

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