(Topic ID: 152861)

Pay with your phone? Is this a common thing yet?


By scott_freeman

3 years ago



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  • 239 posts
  • 77 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by smokedog
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    There are 239 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 3 years ago

    I will try to embrace this new technology.

    th_(resized).jpg

    #152 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    I'd just rather put my coins in the game and I like being simple.

    There is literally nothing about PayRange that is stopping you from doing that, so saying "I don't like it" seems more "yelling at cloud" than constructive.

    #153 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I will try to embrace this new technology.

    Sunglasses are great new tech.... invented 1929 by Sam Foster

    faz

    #154 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_faz:

    Sunglasses are great new tech.... invented 1929 by Sam Foster

    And bluetooth was invented in the 60s.

    star-trek-uhura_(resized).jpg

    #155 3 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    There is literally nothing about PayRange that is stopping you from doing that, so saying "I don't like it" seems more "yelling at cloud" than constructive.

    You weird, hows that ?

    John P. Dayhuff
    Battle Creek, MI.
    269-979-3836

    #156 3 years ago

    I was glad to see my location games offered this option. I get $50 in quarters every time I go to the bank, which isn't often.. Sometimes I forget those quarters at home or in a different car. I forget to carry cash a lot of the time (and sometimes my wallet), so being able to play when I'm in a pinch is a huge plus!

    Knowing that the op takes a 4% hit will be enough for me to try to pay cash whenever possible, but I like having a backup plan.

    #157 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    And bluetooth was invented in the 60s.

    Reverse the polarity!

    faz

    #158 3 years ago

    Tried this out yesterday and loved it. It's nice to have another option as I don't carry a lot of cash with me.

    #159 3 years ago

    generation-of-idiots-on-cell-phones-1-638_(resized).jpg

    #160 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Like I said, I see it everytime I go shopping now. Instead of reaching into a pocket and pulling out money, which has been a tried and true method thruout the ages, people are fumbling with cards and mobile devices that just hold up the show for everybody else. It has become one big joke!

    Funny I seem to think the same thing every time I get in a line and someone breaks out their checkbook.

    Quoted from peace200001:

    The advantage of PayRange is the youth of today don't carry around cash. They just don't. They have no problem downloading an app, adding a credit card and paying without touching anything but their phone.

    Totally agree with this statement. This is about the next generation of players. Not the current one so much.

    #161 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    generation-of-idiots-on-cell-phones-1-638_(resized).jpg

    Einstein never said this, nor anything close to it.

    #162 3 years ago
    Quoted from accidental:

    Einstein never said this, nor anything close to it.

    ein-to-the-stein_(resized).jpg

    #163 3 years ago

    I can't speak to how well it works, but I will say this. My friends and I were at a bar-cade and trying to get smaller bills for the change machine and the bartender was super busy and it took quite some time. When she did get to us, she rolled her eyes when we asked for smaller bills and seemed annoyed by us. We definitely did not feel welcome nor did we want to go back to get more small bills. I get it, bartenders make money off of people who drink and get big tabs and not someone drinking coke and playing pinball all night(in the end I tipped her for getting change). Pay range would have helped that uncomfortable situation or bringing my own change would have as well, but I don't really want to deal with that.

    #164 3 years ago
    Quoted from sparechange1974:

    but I don't really want to deal with that.

    Patronize a business that appreciates you.

    LTG : )

    #165 3 years ago

    Ah, if it were always that easy.

    #166 3 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    I was glad to see my location games offered this option. I get $50 in quarters every time I go to the bank, which isn't often.. Sometimes I forget those quarters at home or in a different car. I forget to carry cash a lot of the time (and sometimes my wallet), so being able to play when I'm in a pinch is a huge plus!
    Knowing that the op takes a 4% hit will be enough for me to try to pay cash whenever possible, but I like having a backup plan.

    I totally get where you are coming from and can appreciate you looking out for your operator. Most people would probably not take their operators fees into consideration, so you are already nicer than the average player. But 4 cents on a $1 game or 2 cents on a $0.50 game is not going to hurt the operator too much. In fact, if PayRange can get even ONE extra game out of you, it will come close to offsetting the 4% hit they are taking. Of course, that is dependent on the number of games you play during a given visit.

    #167 3 years ago

    I think the main goal with pay range is to generate more plays and more money. So the 4% is just the cost of doing business.

    I always scratch my head when I run into "cash only" businesses, that seem to fret over a few points and don't look at the big picture of offering more payment options and raising revenues overall. It's a false belief to think that you'll get all the same business with cash as you would if you offered credit cards.

    The ops in this thread that have spoken about using it seem to feel it has helped their business overall.

    #168 3 years ago

    I agree, if I run out of coins and would like to continue playing, I'll use the payrange option. The ops in our area aren't really ops, they're collectors that have put their own pins out on route. I was involved in the venture for a short time before my life got a little crowded for me to properly maintain my game.

    #169 3 years ago
    Quoted from sparechange1974:

    My friends and I were at a bar-cade and trying to get smaller bills for the change machine and the bartender was super busy and it took quite some time.

    I know that sometimes you just on impulse go to the barcade, but if you know you are going out for the night, you should have a bunch of small bills already in your pocket.

    You need to tip your waiter in cash (the owner deducts 30% taxes and 5% **service fee** if you pay on a card) and you need small bills for games, strippers, street performers... normal stuff.

    I've got a friend that never has any money in his wallet, so he always holds everybody up while he tries to find a money machine that is not empty and is **on his network**. Sometimes on a weekend, this can be several stops. If it's only going to be the two of us, I don't even bother to call him, because it makes me crazy.

    #170 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I know that sometimes you just on impulse go to the barcade, but if you know you are going out for the night, you should have a bunch of small bills already in your pocket....

    Alright Dad.

    #171 3 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I always scratch my head when I run into "cash only" businesses, that seem to fret over a few points and don't look at the big picture of offering more payment options and raising revenues overall. It's a false belief to think that you'll get all the same business with cash as you would if you offered credit cards.

    Real operators (guys with hundreds of coinop gaming machines), only report 50% of their cash earnings.

    So it's not just paying a 5% fee, it's paying taxes on 50% more income; because you can't hide reported card income.

    The coinop biz is hard enough to survive in these days.
    -

    Hobby income from guys with 25 machines is probably so small that those guys are hopefully reporting a loss (if their accountants are good).

    #172 3 years ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    Pay with your phone? Is this a common thing yet?

    I would only consider paying with my phone if the items were of equal value, like, say, a $400 iPhone for a ColorDMD.

    #173 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The coinop biz is hard enough to survive in these days.

    Exactly. Why not give potential customers more ways to pay and raise earnings?

    Quoted from vid1900:

    Real operators (guys with hundreds of coinop gaming machines), only report 50% of their cash earnings.

    So it's not just paying a 5% fee, it's paying taxes on 50% more income; because you can't hide reported card income.

    I get it. But to dig in (not you, we're just talking here) and not even test or try it seems self defeating.

    One option is declare your payrange, pocket the coins that still come in. Isn't that a win win?

    Cash will never die, but as has already been pointed out in this thread, sometimes is an obstacle.

    Another way to look at it is.... if you are denying your business 20% in earnings, to save yourself on paying tax on 50% of your take... how much are you really saving and aren't you in fact hurting your business?

    Operator 1:
    Makes $200k from their route. Declares $100k.

    Operator 2 with same route:
    Makes $240k from route ($40k bump from payrange). Declares Payrange take and tops it up with cash earnings, declaring 50%, $120k. Pockets the other $120k.

    Now I don't know how much payrange might add. But it seems like the kind of thing you test on a couple of locations and see what happens, then roll it out to more if you are satisfied it is helping you. If it doesn't help, then it gets ditched.

    But to not even test it?

    #174 3 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    But to not even test it?

    It seems like big news here on Pinside, but the coinop rags have been reporting about electronic payment systems and their bottom line figures for years.

    Some banks charge $10 a month to receive daily deposits from the processor, some processors charge for each unit after an introductory year expires... you know how many scams they can come up with to add fees - it's like a baby Comcast.

    #175 3 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Operator 1:
    Makes $200k from their route. Declares $100k.
    Operator 2 with same route:
    Makes $240k from route ($40k bump from payrange). Declares Payrange take and tops it up with cash earnings, declaring 50%, $120k. Pockets the other $120k.

    I would like to be either operator in your world

    If I could bring in 100k I would happily claim it all!

    #176 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I would like to be either operator in your world
    If I could bring in 100k I would happily claim it all!

    Well, I was speaking to vid's comment about someone with hundreds of machines on route. So that would be a larger operator.

    #177 3 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    So that would be a larger operator.

    download_(1)_(resized).jpg

    #178 3 years ago
    Quoted from policano:

    Its been the single best thing I have done at my location. It's seriously a game changer! The best approach to building your sales on PayRange is to run promotions. This is an average week with PayRange alone. If anyone wants more information, please reach out to me. Tony@eastsidepinball.com

    PayRange_(resized).png

    I was just in Phoenix and saw Camelback Mountain!

    #179 3 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I remember when cell phones didn't even exist...people got by back then, got out of the house, talked to their neighbors, kids had free reign of the neighborhood and didn't come home until dinner time...
    But, yes, a cell phone can be a very useful communications tool.

    Same here. I know that even if cell and smart phones existed, my parents would never have spent what they cost today even in inflation adjusted dollars back in the 60's & 70's. We were given a dime to use for an emergency call (pay phones were everywhere and were a dime back then). But, when the movie let out and we needed a ride home, we put in the dime, called home letting the phone ring once and hung up. Got the dime back and one of my parents came to the theater and got us. Free paging courtesy of Michigan Bell.

    #180 3 years ago
    Quoted from Cornelius:

    from 2400 baud to 56k???!? Your flesh will ripple from all that speed!
    (I put together my 3rd grade newsletter on a Mac. Apple will always have a place in my heart)

    I remember when Rockwell came out with the "K56" Modem cards. Virtually every fax machine built had them. Kept the plant on Butterfield Trail in El Paso (where all of the Gottlieb circuit boards were built) open for several years.

    Rockwell Corporate actually asked all employees during the upcoming Christmas break to send a snail mail letter to one or two fax makers "urging them" to use Rockwell's K56 modem cards in their fax machines.

    #181 3 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I think the main goal with pay range is to generate more plays and more money. So the 4% is just the cost of doing business.
    I always scratch my head when I run into "cash only" businesses, that seem to fret over a few points and don't look at the big picture of offering more payment options and raising revenues overall. It's a false belief to think that you'll get all the same business with cash as you would if you offered credit cards.
    The ops in this thread that have spoken about using it seem to feel it has helped their business overall.

    This is primarily done for tax "purposes". The underground eCONomy is a wonderful thing.

    #182 3 years ago

    You're someone who gets where this all is leading. A cashless society is a locked down controlled society. All for your "Safety" of course....

    Quoted from chad:

    Lets hope cash still stays around for a long time!! Once that is gone, total control by the good ol government. I no like....

    #183 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    It seems like big news here on Pinside, but the coinop rags have been reporting about electronic payment systems and their bottom line figures for years.

    Love the multipage "Feature articles" in RePlay & Play Meter. Followed by full page ads by the COmpaNy featured in the article. For every three full page color ads purchased, we'll include a feature article. Five ads gives you front page billing and six ads give you the front page photo.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    it's like a baby Comcast.

    Or SiriusXM.

    #184 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I would like to be either operator in your world
    If I could bring in 100k I would happily claim it all!

    If you brought in a lot more than you currently do in revenue, you'd get so hungry for more which would require more equipment that you would likely try and hide even more income freeing up cash to buy the new games. I love how distributors still take cash for new equipment.

    #185 3 years ago

    This just happened last night with one of the kiddies behind the register of a new pizza place I wanted to try. Pizza came to $15.79. Handed him a $50 bill. He looked down at the cash in his drawer and was befuddled on what my change should be. Even shouted over to the owner who was busy making pies at the time so couldn't help him. He squirmed a bit. I waited a few more seconds then told him "$34.21". He counted that out and handed it to me still with a confused look on his face. What are these kids being taught these days? And school is more expensive then ever? Glad I grew up in the late 70's when doing math in your head was a normal occurrence and no Common Core BS to dumb the kids down.

    Quoted from o-din:

    Maybe, but since the guy or gal working the register usually can't count change, then we are sometimes in the same boat as those that need their smart phones to run their lives.

    #186 3 years ago

    I just ordered a few payranges for a few pins I have in location. Did everybody here need to install the relay to get them to work with their machines?

    #187 3 years ago

    And also this link states they estimate only about 8% of the worlds money is actually physical cash so I think payrange is a great idea for operators. But I will let them prove themselves and decide then.

    http://money.howstuffworks.com/currency6.htm

    #188 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    I also am astounded by that!
    The operator has purchased a game that maybe cost $8000 (Hobbit) and anything over $1 is too much?
    As the crocodile hunter would say, CRIKEY!!
    Games here are $2 per play for new Sterns.
    Older games are still $1 like they have been for 20 years.
    When I was at Logan Hardware they had a Whoa Nellie and that was dearer than the other games, I'm going to say $1.50 (??) a play?
    Didn't deter too many people, it was being played all night.
    rd

    Logan Hardware has there game at $0.25-$1.00

    But 1 New Zealand Dollar equals 0.66 US Dollar

    #189 3 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    This is primarily done for tax "purposes". The underground eCONomy is a wonderful thing.

    I'm still of the opinion that not taking someone's dollar, so you can avoid paying 20% (or whatever) tax on it is self defeating. More payment options = more revenue, and you can still take as much cash as people have on them. But what do I know.

    #190 3 years ago

    All of my AMI jukeboxes use the ami app & take credit cards at the box itself. I also operate several ATMs. I even try to put change machines in bars that are too busy to give you quarters. Im all about finding a way for the customer to spend money at one of my accounts. PayRange is something I might try in change machines in my arcades where american changer wants $1k to sell you an update kit to accept credit. $50 is much more appealing upfront cost.

    #191 3 years ago
    Quoted from Okarcades:

    I just ordered a few payranges for a few pins I have in location. Did everybody here need to install the relay to get them to work with their machines?

    If you've got bill acceptors, you just need the BlueKey device. If you don't, you need that other thing too (the "relay", I guess?).

    I've got it in 15 machines, all 1992 and up, some plugged into the service outlet, some not. PM me if you have any questions.

    #192 3 years ago

    This pic shows my PayRange earnings from the beginning on 15 machines across 2 locations. When I first installed it, I promoted it a lot in conversations with regular players, but got a little discouraged when people just kept using quarters. But use has been steadily increasing. That bump in week 52 is (I believe) due to the final week of a month long selfie tournament where people take photos of their scores and submit them.

    Screen_Shot_2016-02-27_at_11.30.49_AM_(resized).png

    #193 3 years ago

    Just asked one of my best regulars (who likes to camp out on Bally/Williams Lawlor games for long periods of time) what he thinks of PayRange. He also happens to be the oldest regular in terms of age...he's in his 60s.

    "...lets me track how much I'm putting into the machines for my little Pinball addiction. But I think I could say that I'm old-school and thought I would keep putting quarters in because it's part of the tradition. And as a late adopter, having put it on my phone, I'm not sure I would go back to quarters if given the choice."

    "I have also gotten used to just putting a bunch of credits on the machine in advance, knowing I'm going to do so anyway. And keeping my phone right of the front of the machine so I don't have to reach in my pocket. Is that even a further sign of my addiction? too lazy to get up and get change for a five?"

    #194 3 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    This pic shows my PayRange earnings from the beginning on 15 machines across 2 locations. When I first installed it, I promoted it a lot in conversations with regular players, but got a little discouraged when people just kept using quarters. But use has been steadily increasing. That bump in week 52 is (I believe) due to the final week of a month long selfie tournament where people take photos of their scores and submit them.
    Screen_Shot_2016-02-27_at_11.30.49_AM_(resized).png

    So that shows the payrange earnings ... But have the overall earnings gone up?

    ie are your existing clients still spending the same amount, but using payrange instead of cash?

    rd

    #195 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    So that shows the payrange earnings ... But have the overall earnings gone up?
    ie are your existing clients still spending the same amount, but using payrange instead of cash?
    rd

    My earnings have been on an upward trajectory at my bigger location since I started 15 months ago, so it's hard to figure out. (Before I took over, there were pins, up to 10 at one point, but it had dwindled down to 4. I took over, and came in with 10, but instead of being in the front of the bar, the pins are in a dedicated room way in the back that people are still discovering after all this time). There is also seasonality that goes along with it - when the weather is nicer, more people go out downtown, and the bar sees more patrons. League and tournament play probably affects it also. I ran a super selfie league in April, July, and December. I had regular weekly leagues running in between.

    Happy to try and figure it out if you can suggest a good method. Below is the graph of daily average per machine at that location. I installed PayRange the first week of December.

    Screen_Shot_2016-02-27_at_3.09.52_PM_(resized).png

    #196 3 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Happy to try and figure it out if you can suggest a good method. Below is the graph of daily average per machine at that location.

    Often, working out things like this are tough. So many factors ... Especially with people still discovering your machines, as you say.

    Probably the only way we could find out if payrange increased earnings was to have a location where the machines had been set up for say 6 months minimum, accurate figures taken weekly, and then payrange installed and then accurate figures taken for another 6 months.

    Some of the previous posters have said that their turnovers have increased, I wonder if that was graphed or not?

    rd

    #197 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Probably the only way we could find out if payrange increased earnings was to have a location where the machines had been set up for say 6 months minimum, accurate figures taken weekly, and then payrange installed and then accurate figures taken for another 6 months.

    Well, I have those historical numbers...but as you can see from the graph it wasn't steady enough before PayRange came onto the scene. Maybe there is someone out there who had consistent numbers...or at least numbers that were on a consistent increase or decrease.

    Quoted from rotordave:

    Some of the previous posters have said that their turnovers have increased, I wonder if that was graphed or not?

    What do you mean by "turnovers"?

    #198 3 years ago

    More data: I've had 36 total different people use PayRange. Last week I got 20 unique users, and the average spend was $8.10.

    #199 3 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    What do you mean by "turnovers"?

    basic business terms ...

    Turnover = money that is in the register at the end of the day. (Or the coinbox in this case)

    Profit = the part of your turnover that you are left with after everyone else holds out their hand.

    rd

    -1
    #200 3 years ago

    Don't want to sound like the creepy guy but....

    I work for one of the major Phone company in Canada. My job is to provision service and solve problems for cell phone users.

    Stories and facts I heard and saw in 20 years are crazy.

    I never had and never will have a cell during my lifetime. That's a personal choice.

    Just like everybody was smoking cigarettes in the 70..........

    A smoker these days is a timebomb and not trending....... Time will tell us if in 20 years cell phone users will be the same.

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