(Topic ID: 98930)

Pat Lawlor's new JJP machine - progress update


By mfresh

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 189 posts
  • 93 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Pahuffman
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    image-61.jpg
    Crazy-Horse-Memorial-2.jpg
    image.jpg

    There are 189 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 4 years ago
    Quoted from B9:

    I wonder if the code will be open because it's unlicensed.

    I thought that was the plan when JJP started out-if they could make the code open source on unlicensed games, then they would. Might be imagining things though. Only major issue is how easy I can see it being to mess up something expensive (like locking on a coil)-not sure how "forgiving" the underlying OS is. It could be done, but it takes a lot of Engineering time to create an API layer that can compensate for mistakes.

    #152 4 years ago

    My worry ... no, not worry, curiosity ... is how the video material will be developed for a non-licensed pin. The Wizard of Oz and Hobbit provide a wealth of video that can be used in the LCD screen. The unique material created by the JJP team (e.g. the witch that taunts you in the middle of the screen) is amazing, but there is still a lot that is either based in the movie or are cut scenes direct from the movie. How is this going to work for Pat's game? That is a lot of material to create from nothing.

    It will be very interesting to hear about the theme from this standpoint as the LCD screen is so prominent (and valued by some of us) in a JJP pin.

    #153 4 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisBardon:

    I thought that was the plan when JJP started out-if they could make the code open source on unlicensed games, then they would. Might be imagining things though.

    I remember hearing the same thing when JJP started

    #154 4 years ago
    Quoted from B9:

    I remember hearing the same thing when JJP started

    The OS is already open source Proprietary code isn't.

    #155 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pinchroma:

    The OS is already open source Proprietary code isn't.

    Ok, smarty pants we're talking about this

    #t=643

    #156 4 years ago
    Quoted from B9:

    Ok, smarty pants we're talking about this » YouTube video

    LOL I wasn't there at that point.

    #157 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pinchroma:

    LOL I wasn't there at that point.

    I understand, but this was something that really got me interested in JJP early on. I'm not expecting to have full access to the game code but being able to alter some aspects of the game such as audio clips, music, videos, and scoring would be fun to tinker around with

    #158 4 years ago

    I predict:
    3 flippers
    ramps
    at-least 2 neat toys
    and 1 unique gimmick

    #159 4 years ago
    Quoted from StevenP:

    Clearly you have no clue what's involved in creating a brand-new pinball system from scratch, lining up vendors/suppliers for hundreds of parts, obtaining approvals from a licensee, designing and programming the new game, building and running a brand-new factory, etc. "Virtual" companies with no physical product can start up, crank stuff out, and disappear on a shorter timescale. Pinball production is not like that. At all.

    Clearly you are misunderstanding the fundamentals of business in a capitalist system. Many products have long development cycles. That doesn't mean the customer has to pay for it. If you can't develop a legitimate business plan to draw the capital investment required to produce the product, you really aren't a legitimate business. You're are more of a dream seller taking advantage of uninformed cultists.

    26
    #160 4 years ago

    It would be awesome if people limited their comments to lawlors pin and not every little complaint they have with jjp!

    1 week later
    #161 4 years ago
    Quoted from SadSack:

    Clearly you are misunderstanding the fundamentals of business in a capitalist system. Many products have long development cycles. That doesn't mean the customer has to pay for it. If you can't develop a legitimate business plan to draw the capital investment required to produce the product, you really aren't a legitimate business. You're are more of a dream seller taking advantage of uninformed cultists.

    So my early WOZ pre-order was just a dream? Well, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Speaking as an uninformed cultist, I guess.

    Next...

    #162 4 years ago
    Quoted from SadSack:

    Clearly you are misunderstanding the fundamentals of business in a capitalist system. Many products have long development cycles. That doesn't mean the customer has to pay for it. If you can't develop a legitimate business plan to draw the capital investment required to produce the product, you really aren't a legitimate business. You're are more of a dream seller taking advantage of uninformed cultists.

    Good lord... No one is more critical of the prepay model than me, but aren't there enough OTHER threads to discuss that?

    Plus, WoZ is just about ready to complete shipping, so you're a little late predicting doom

    -1
    #163 4 years ago

    As far as Pat's JJP pin goes; It's First to pay is first to play-ish.

    #164 4 years ago

    I suspect third upper flipper and steep curving sideways ramp, shot through the bumbers (4 or more of them) and a Pat bottom. and modes.

    #165 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Nothing is automatic. Lawlor doesn't mean instant classic. But I do think it's a bit unfair to judge him based on games made during the dark years at Stern, when the games were stuck with crap licenses and low budgets and everyone was struggling. JJP will probably give him much more free reign with the BOM compared to those years (and a price tag to go with it I'm sure, for better or for worse) and an original theme has the potential to let him work his creativity.
    As with any game I suggest keeping your wallet closed until you can play it.

    I disagree. Some of the best games to come out of stern happened in those years. LOTR and TSPP ? Sopranos? His games all kinda blow ass. Only one I like out of the Stern years is RBION. I used to be a big Lawlor fan before I even knew who Lawlor was. Only games I wanted when I got into this hobby was ES, FH, TAF, and TZ. Then I was done. Look how that turned out. Had all those games and now I don't even own one of them. :/ Still love those games. Think they are brilliant. But all his shit feels the same. I had all 4 and all 4 felt like the same damn game. so 2 had to go. I think he's lost his edge. I think John B is better at not copying himself and open to more original layouts. Who made swords of fury, or Dungeons and Dragons, even Blackwater 100, or Escape from Lost world? Those games are unique as shit. Get those people to make a game that is out of the cookie cutter box.

    #168 4 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I disagree. Some of the best games to come out of stern happened in those years. LOTR and TSPP ? Sopranos? His games all kinda blow ass. Only one I like out of the Stern years is RBION. I used to be a big Lawlor fan before I even knew who Lawlor was. Only games I wanted when I got into this hobby was ES, FH, TAF, and TZ. Then I was done. Look how that turned out. Had all those games and now I don't even own one of them. :/ Still love those games. Think they are brilliant. But all his shit feels the same. I had all 4 and all 4 felt like the same damn game. so 2 had to go. I think he's lost his edge. I think John B is better at not copying himself and open to more original layouts. Who made Swords of Fury, or Dungeons and Dragons, even Blackwater 100, or Escape from Lost world? Those games are unique as shit. Get those people to make a game that is out of the cookie cutter box.

    Well, there are "The Years At Stern" and then there are "The Dark Years At Stern". I'd consider TDYAS to be from 2008-2011 or so, when half of all staff was let go, and game budgets were clearly cut to the absolute bone. Anything past Batman and such, to somewhere in the 2011era when Avatar (such as it is) and TRON: Legacy came into being, with associated Premium additions and such. Things changed a bit, then.

    I don't know that there's anyone who's going to come to the defense of CSI, quite frankly. Is that because Pat botched it up? Not necessarily...it's hard to do a two-handed task with one hand tied behind your back, which is what seemed to be the case in TDYAS. I'm honestly not in love with the game *at all*, but have I seen worse? Yes, and out of the Stern factory, too. That being said: I never want to own a CSI, unless it's so inexpensive that it's just not "turndown able".

    Unfortunately, I agree for the most part that Pat's games at Stern were, pretty objectively speaking, far less good than his games produced at WMS. Oh, sure, you can have your Family Guy, but even that is pushing it, I think, and a lot of the good of that game is helped along by Keefer's handiwork. If FG's his pinnacle at Stern, it's a pretty low bar, quite frankly.

    Monopoly doesn't stand up well to the test of time, unfortunately. It was a nice breath of fresh air when it was released, because hey: Pat was *BACK*!!!! It felt good to have him back at the helm, and the game had a good enough Lawloresque feel to it. Ultimately, though, it's definitely sub-par to most WMS Lawlor machines, and it was produced 5 years after them. You'd think that there would have been some improvements in some areas. None to be found by my prognosis.

    Then the issues *really* got compounded in Roller Coaster Tycoon, which is a travesty of a Lawlor game. I ought to know: I own one. If nothing else, it was *at least* two steps backwards from Monopoly. Far worse theme, absolutely horrible software, a waste of Youssi's time.

    Ripley's followed, which was better, admittedly, but still had the millstone around its neck of a lousy theme (though I thought it had potential to be somewhat like a TZ-type theme), somewhat-improved-yet-still-not-good software, and some downright *terrible* design decisions like the upper flipper strength issue, the plastic posts, etc. Ripley's also seemed to be forever broken on location, more prolifically than most.

    As an addendum, between RCT and RBION, there were multiple titles that came through shining like a National guitar: TSPP, LOTR, Elvis Gold, and even T3 was pretty good...all serving to make the shine on Ripley's that much more dull.

    NASCAR/Grand Prix/Dale Jr. was just a fiasco, a game that Pat basically never should have had given to him. It's just not his forté, quite frankly, thematically. And it's a butchered game, isn't it: doesn't feel like a Pat game, doesn't play very much like a Pat game, doesn't do much of anything well. I give him/them points for trying something new and shaking things up a bit, but really: the game's a mess/miss.

    Family Guy/Shrek *darned well ought to be* his best Stern machine, and it certainly is, considering all the time leading up to it. Feels more like his pin more than any other Stern Lawlor machine, to me. It's got a good deal going for it, and there's a reason it is, by far, the Stern Lawlor machine that's held or increased its value the most: it's the very best one he did for them, helped along mightily by Keefer and others, I'm sure.

    CSI has been discussed, and needs not be brought up again.

    All that to say that I'm looking forward to what Pat *may be able* to do again. I think he's extremely talented as a pinball designer, but like with many great minds, he needs a team around him that is equally brilliant and won't take a back seat to anyone, even Pat. I think that JJP is a very good arena for this to happen, along with a better bill of materials available to him. It's certainly a chance for Pat to knock one out of the park and help us remember his brilliance: he's a *fantastic* innovator, and I hope he's up to one last great at-bat.

    There are simply no guarantees, though. "The best laid plans of mice and men..."

    -1
    #169 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    I'm happy for Riot Pinball and JJP for having the cojones to do a non-licensed theme. Are these the only two companies willing to try it in 2015?
    -mof

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Let's see how they sell. I love Lawlor games (mostly)...it will be a potential hit with people who are already pinball fans/collectors. It's potentially meaningless to anyone else. Ops are unlikely to buy it because it will be expensive AND an unknown. So, it's highly unlikely that it will sell as well as a beloved license - but, should be cool regardless.

    Unfortunately... "America's Most Haunted" couldn't sound more gimmicky, cliche, and/or stereotypical of some american trying to come up with a catchy name... Hmmm, let's take a known name or phrase and reword it so it sounds similar but different... Yeah, real original.... That game also looks pretty underwhelming and boring... I appreciate the effort but this ISNT helping non-licensed games...

    Similarily, I think Wrath of Olympus looks a little lacking but much better than AMH... The logo looks like something made for a kids toy or a mobile app game... The playfield is lacking toys or more artistic touches but it looks pretty nice... Again though, not really hitting a home run here...

    JJP doing a Pat Lawlor original??? Thats awesome and I'm sure will be a hell of a game as long as the name and theme arent cheesy...

    Hopefully Riot can do something REALLY IMPRESSIVE with Alice In Wonderland... Thats a PERFECT candidate for a Pin and should leave nothing behind... That could be a masterpiece.. Not sure which license or if its PD at this point... JJP would be able to do a phenomenal job but maybe Riot will do a good job with it...

    My point or opinion here is that UNFORTUNATELY the JJP/Lawlor original seems to be the only game at this point that can really push the original game front further... Remember, all the big companies before use to do original games and its sad that people need some licensed themed game based on a movie or band to be interested... What if video games were limited by what movies were made? That would BLOW! The whole point of making games or art is to be original and creative.. not always basing something off of something else... If someone wants to knock off a book or movie with their own take on it, thats fine (not ideal) because they have creative freedom.. It just gets cheesy if its very direct and not done well.... For example, a Dracula game doesnt have to try and be the movie Bram Stokers Dracula... If done well, it can be better... Like Konami's Castlevania for Nintendo... That was and still is an awesome game...

    Post edited by ShaneBolda: tag fix

    #170 4 years ago
    Quoted from ShaneBolda:

    "America's Most Haunted" couldn't sound more gimmicky, cliche, and/or stereotypical of some american trying to come up with a catchy name... Hmmm, let's take a known name or phrase and reword it so it sounds similar but different... Yeah, real original....

    You do realise that it's satire, right? It's supposed to evoke those known things so that they can make fun of them.

    #171 4 years ago

    24 could have actually been a good game. Layout isn't bad, but the software rules are not that good. Has enough inserts in the center of the playfield, that it could be a lot more complex and deep, but just isn't. A software overhaul could make it a half ass game into a great game.

    CSI just feels cheap all around. Nothing really satisfying about it, but at least the layout is original and unique. Kind of reminds me of the cluttered late 80's gottlieb games, like Gold Wings.

    #172 4 years ago

    An important fact to keep in mind is that Ted Estes is on the software team for Pat's game. Not only is he a particularly talented programmer, his understanding of pinball basics and how to weave rules together is top notch. His code is the only reason to own a Demolition Man.

    So, basically, you have the same team back together than produced TZ, arguably Pat's second most popular game of all time.

    #173 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    So, basically, you have the same team back together than produced TZ, arguably Pat's second most popular game of all time.

    Bingo.

    #174 4 years ago
    Quoted from ShaneBolda:

    lacking toys or more artistic touches but it looks pretty nice.

    Hmmm I saw all sorts of stuff pandoras box, the helmet. And is far as artistic the whole playfield is original hand drawn.

    confused by that comment.

    #175 4 years ago

    sorry that this isn't an update but... am i the only one that's starting to worry about what this game will end up msrp-ing? Stern looks like they raised the LE bar to $8595 now and I can't help but think JJP will be $9K plus. Will we see a $10K LE with this?

    Sorry about speculating in an update thread.

    #176 4 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    sorry that this isn't an update but... am i the only one that's starting to worry about what this game will end up msrp-ing? Stern looks like they raised the LE bar to $8595 now and I can't help but think JJP will be $9K plus. Will we see a $10K LE with this?
    Sorry about speculating in an update thread.

    No one in his or her right mind will buy one at that price. Sure, prices are spiking, but not at that rate.

    #177 4 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    sorry that this isn't an update but... am i the only one that's starting to worry about what this game will end up msrp-ing? Stern looks like they raised the LE bar to $8595 now and I can't help but think JJP will be $9K plus. Will we see a $10K LE with this?
    Sorry about speculating in an update thread.

    I don't think so, we already see people stopped buying a lot from the last price hike. Everything has been dropping. Personally, I think everyone is sick of the constant price increases, especially when they are already stupidly high. They pushed the bar too far and it's pissed a lot of people off. I'm sure they won't acknowledge that the lack of sales are due to their greed. They will chalk it up to poor economy or to many pinball companies or some bullshit.

    #178 4 years ago
    Quoted from Excalabur:

    You do realise that it's satire, right? It's supposed to evoke those known things so that they can make fun of them.

    that doesnt make it funny, cool, or good... it makes it just as lame as the stuff they are trying to make fun of..

    #179 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinballnut3:

    Hmmm I saw all sorts of stuff pandoras box, the helmet. And is far as artistic the whole playfield is original hand drawn.
    confused by that comment.

    yeah thats what i meant by BETTER than AMH... but as I mentioned there are only a couple toys/objects... MT Olympus is just another level mini-pin thats empty... its just kind of lacking.. the playfield art is pretty good, but the cab art and logo are sub-par for a 2014 pin IMO...

    #180 4 years ago

    I am looking forward to see what he comes up with.
    I like the fact that it's an original theme and I am a big fan of his older machines
    I will reserve judgment until I see it.

    #181 4 years ago

    OH

    Quoted from pinballnut3:

    Hmmm I saw all sorts of stuff pandoras box, the helmet. And is far as artistic the whole playfield is original hand drawn.

    confused by that comment.

    Quoted from ShaneBolda:

    the cab art and logo are sub-par for a 2014 pin IMO...

    OH, I would be cool if they just went retro with it, but it looks like its more of a modern original theme and the logo/name REALLY seems ripped off modern app game logos and SPECIFICALLY reminded me of "Clash of Clans"... just feels very copycat to things recently done... and the logo looks very flat/ washed out, doesnt pop at all... im just being critical, but trying to be specific and somewhat constructive

    http://clashofclansandroid.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Clash-of-Clans-Android-Download.jpg

    https://forum-s3.pinside.com/201308/1075234/127439.jpg

    #182 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pahuffman:

    No one in his or her right mind will buy one at that price. Sure, prices are spiking, but not at that rate.

    Except if you live in Australia or New Zealand - been paying $9-10 for NIB for a few years now

    #183 4 years ago
    Quoted from dendoc:

    Except if you live in Australia or New Zealand - been paying $9-10 for NIB for a few years now

    Or France (and probably most of Europe). 8,500 euros (including sales tax) is more than $10k.

    #184 4 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    Or France (and probably most of Europe). 8,500 euros (including sales tax) is more than $10k.

    And even more in the UK - Walking Dead LE is £6995, that's $11330 with tax.

    #185 4 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    24 could have actually been a good game. Layout isn't bad, but the software rules are not that good. Has enough inserts in the center of the playfield, that it could be a lot more complex and deep, but just isn't. A software overhaul could make it a half ass game into a great game.

    What does 24 have to do with Pat Lawlor?

    #186 4 years ago

    I'd love a FH sequel, as somebody else mentioned. I'd want it to be called Family Funhouse Frenzy!

    -Introducing Rudy's wife, Trudy! Both heads would be on playfield, ala Roadshow. Hysterical quotes galore, including the couple arguing with each other, like, well....and old couple!

    -They brought the rest of the family!: Their kids Tootie, Hootie, Grooty and Judy. Also, Uncle Cootie and Aunt Pootie tag along, with their kids Cutie, Moody, Broody and their pet dog Fruity who makes lots of Doodie...

    All kinds of family funhouse hijinks are sure to be had! The FH itself has grown exponentially in a wacky widebody, with tons more attractions and features, including a the Rolling Barrel Bonanaza, Crazy Conveyor Belts, Funky Floors that move side to side and the Psycho Slides. Returning features like the Wind Tunnel and House of Mirrors return with more frenetic action!

    Come on, Pat. Make it happen!

    #187 4 years ago

    I picked some up.

    It will be some sort of roman empire vs hannibal themed pin.

    #188 4 years ago
    Quoted from SadSack:

    I don't. The ovewhelming majority of new companies fail in the first 18 months. 3 years from taking money is completely unreasonable unless you are talking about something like the crazy horse monument in the black hills:

    Crazy-Horse-Memorial-2.jpg 27 KB

    OT: Hey my wife and I were just at crazy horse (rode to Sturgis for the rally)
    image-61.jpg

    #189 4 years ago
    Quoted from dendoc:

    Except if you live in Australia or New Zealand - been paying $9-10 for NIB for a few years now

    Wow. Pardon my ignorance. Is that price because of taxes? Shipping? Availability? All of the above?

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 53.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 799.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 149.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 26.95
    £ 82.00
    $ 19.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    From: $ 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 14.95
    $ 78.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    From: $ 5,799.95
    Pinball Machine
    Pinball Pro
    $ 90.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Deadpool Premium Out of stock
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 35.00
    $ 159.00
    From: $ 218.00
    $ 26.95
    Playfield - Protection
    ULEKstore
    £ 49.00
    Lighting - Led
    PinballToys
    $ 96.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 35.00
    There are 189 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside