Tech: Passive bumper skirt modify

Pin-it

Inactive member

Time came to swap out old for new passive bumper assemblies ,only problem is they do not make them with conductive stingers. -------------Test Subject:---- 1952 Hong Kong (williams) -----After some thinking i decided to cut the plastic tail. ----------- Heat up a 1-1/4 brad nail till red hot ,poked a hole through the center (8 total) then inserted a new cold brad in the pierced skirt. --------------------Then relit the Lp torch, heated the brad enough to be pulled in the molten plastic , allowed time to cool being careful not to pull out too far.------------ All but one (always one that turns out like that) i had to (last picture) heat a ring terminal to affix mating it to the plastic tail nub that i got a little far with (pulled through actually).---------Funny it seems the strongest one to boot after crimping to the brad.

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#2 11 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Climate Controlled Sfba, CA

Additional pics.

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#3 11 years ago

WRD

way2wyrd

History Of Pinball

Fort Worth, TX

13y 116K 4,917 21 12

your style impresses me sir!

great engineering

#4 11 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

12y 69,550 2,986 70

Nice, but you still need to find a way to reproduce the carbon rings that get burned away. I like that your way gives the game the original look from inside though.

I'm curious, why didn't you use the newer style skirt and add in a spoon switch instead? You get rid of the carbon ring and the burned conducting rod and get the benifit of a more consistant switch.

#5 11 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Quoted from blownfuse:
Nice, but you still need to find a way to reproduce the carbon rings that get burned away.

Thanks ----- What i will do is rotate it within the ring seeing it only seems to be worn in one area , i will rotate it opposite of the skirts action path.-------The bumpers only get touched one side except a few get it from all sides. But all seem like they got some plays left to `em

Quoted from blownfuse:
You get rid of the carbon ring and the burned conducting rod and get the benifit of a more consistant switch.

I would love to but the 1-8 caps are going to be $80 so after some playtime I will upgrade them as needed. Figure if it is 60 years old probably get a few more games outta of it. Maybe some tungsten welding material hhmmm i will have to think about that . -- Open to any ideas=== Thanks again

11 months later

#6 10 years ago

SteveinTexas

Pinside member

Hi Pin-it,

I saw your post this weekend after I did a similar skirt replacement fix for my old Williams Pinball. The skirts I had were pretty bad. I used the same pins and drilled a hole in the new skirt after lobbing of the plastic 'penis'. It all seems to work similar to your fix and skirts looks fine now. I think your fix was better as you have newer pins.

My input is I broke one 'graphite ring' and had to bend the copper wire ring a little tighter. It seems to work OK. I also don't want to change the type of bumper after 60+ years if I can help it as the machine is in great shape.

My questions to all are;
1. Is there any source for the graphite rings?
2. Also the copper connection wire from the pin needs to be not as stiff as modern day stranded wire. Only two of the six were salvageable. Is there a source for the original type wire, it almost looks to be braided?

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#7 10 years ago

Pin-it

Inactive member

Climate Controlled Sfba, CA

Quoted from SteveinTexas:
I used the same pins and drilled a hole in the new skirt

I used new 1-1/4" steel brads which are cheap to purchase,heated one(propane torch)till light red using vice-grips to hold it,then pierced a hole through the center of the skirt. <<Easy Then put another pin in the hole (didnt want any brittlement issues) I made and heated it enough to pull it in to the melted plastic till it cooled and was solid.

Quoted from SteveinTexas:
My input is I broke one 'graphite ring' and had to bend the copper wire ring a little tighter.

I broke one also but was able to super glue it back together.

Quoted from SteveinTexas:
My questions to all are;
1. Is there any source for the graphite rings?

Try >> http://www.thomasnet.com/products/carbon-brushes-8502809-1.html <started researching but did not follow through.

Quoted from SteveinTexas:
2. Also the copper connection wire from the pin needs to be not as stiff as modern day stranded wire. Only two of the six were salvageable. Is there a source for the original type wire, it almost looks to be braided?

I used 20 ga insulated copper wire ( i left the insulation on)soldered it to the pin and it flexed well enough.
No problems,did all eight skirts that way.

#8 10 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

Olympia, WA

12y 83,400 5,965

I posted under Vid's Guide to rebuilding pop bumpers that I completely converted the old style skirts over to modern ones and bought Gottlieb pop bumper spoon switch assemblies (only $6 each).

#9 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

12y 69,550 2,986 70

Yep, much easier and why I mentioned it to the Op a year ago. I have to give points to them for keeping the original look though.

Steve

#10 10 years ago

ARF

AlexF

Pinside member

Edgerton, WI

11y 116K 5,764 9 8

147629-i.jpg

I want one of those cool jewelry maker's tools. Looks pretty handy.

#11 10 years ago

WRD

way2wyrd

History Of Pinball

Fort Worth, TX

13y 116K 4,917 21 12

one of these? http://tinyurl.com/lmpvg5c

#12 10 years ago

ARF

AlexF

Pinside member

Edgerton, WI

11y 116K 5,764 9 8

Yeah, exactly. Thanks

#13 10 years ago

SteveinTexas

Pinside member

Thanks for the feedback. The bumpers are all now working better than before even the one without the graphite ring. The top plastic part are warped and need changing out for sure as they are causing the new skirt and metal part not to line up properly so not as 'good as new' for sure. But it is an acceptable bumper response to me for a very old game...for now.

I got the wire to work OK also after some trial and error.

Ken, I will search for the Vid guide as I am curious but will leave it for a while.

I will look for the graphite rings for reference purposes and post if i have any success.

Alex, since my wife won't hold things for me to solder any more, I needed to get extra help.

#14 10 years ago

INC

johninc

Pinside member

Las Vegas, NV

11y 51,650 934 5

I bought some graphite rings from Steve Young, but that was probably 15 years ago. Has anybody asked him if he still has them?

#15 10 years ago

SteveinTexas

Pinside member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-old-graphite-ring-bumper-system#post-5394279

I will email him thanks.

6 years later

#16 3 years ago

Dono

Pinside+ Frequent

Glenelg, MD

9y 86,050 1,791 12 25

I wanted to provide a bit of detail about a similar mod I had to do for a 1947 United pin - Mexico:

Basically cut off the skirt axle as shown. Through a few trial and error attempts on a beat skirt or two, determine proper hole width for the nail by drilling various bits that are very close but smaller than the nail pulled out of the original skirt; the hole needs to provide just enough tension to keep the nail in place permanently; it helps to have a drill press .here Make sure prior to reinserting the nail into the modified skirt that the pulled nail is straight and clean of solder. You can then re-insert. I pushed them through via the nail head centered on a board and pushing straight down by two sides of the skirt... don't force it too much or you'll bend the nail... Important.. you want pressure on the nail to hold it in its proper place, but too much and you'll bend the nail trying to get it through.

Took me a few attempts before choosing the bit that provided the proper tension.

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#17 3 years ago

DCR

DCRand

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 74,050 1,355 15

I was working on a 1952 Twenty Grand, called Steve Young looking for a new skirt, and he told me about the brad nail mod. I used a very small drill bit, just under sized of the nail. Worked great.

Don't think he has the graphite rings any longer. But someone, maybe Steve, suggested just tightening the copper circle that holds the rings. For home use, that should last for years. Then just get new copper wire when it needs replacing.

#18 3 years ago

Dono

Pinside+ Frequent

Glenelg, MD

9y 86,050 1,791 12 25

Quoted from DCRand:
I was working on a 1952 Twenty Grand, called Steve Young looking for a new skirt, and he told me about the brad nail mod. I used a very small drill bit, just under sized of the nail. Worked great.
Don't think he has the graphite rings any longer. But someone, maybe Steve, suggested just tightening the copper circle that holds the rings. For home use, that should last for years. Then just get new copper wire when it needs replacing.

Thanks for the update, yeah, he no longer carries them because he'd basically have to craft them out of bulk carbon since his sole supplier has permanently stopped manufacturing this component. He did say you can rotate the carbon ring on its holder if you need to. Mine are thankfully in decent shape so I haven't attempted this.

#19 3 years ago

DCR

DCRand

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 74,050 1,355 15

Quoted from Dono:
Thanks for the update, yeah, he no longer carries them because he'd basically have to craft them out of bulk carbon since his sole supplier has permanently stopped manufacturing this component. He did say you can rotate the carbon ring on its holder if you need to. Mine are thankfully in decent shape so I haven't attempted this.

If you do rotate them, be very careful. They are very brittle. I had two spares, and broke one installing it. Felt like I had broken the last dinosaur egg on earth. LOL

I also saw on another post in Pinside, someone who had made one out of a brass knurled hand turn nut. He drilled out the center threads and enlarged the hole.

#20 3 years ago

Dono

Pinside+ Frequent

Glenelg, MD

9y 86,050 1,791 12 25

Quoted from DCRand:
If you do rotate them, be very careful. They are very brittle. I had two spares, and broke one installing it. Felt like I had broken the last dinosaur egg on earth. LOL
I also saw on another post in Pinside, someone who had made one out of a brass knurled hand turn nut. He drilled out the center threads and enlarged the hole.

Thanks for the tip! The link to this post is below. One question though, isn't brass non-conductive; how does this even work?

#21 3 years ago

DCR

DCRand

Pinside+ Frequent

7y 74,050 1,355 15

Quoted from Dono:
Thanks for the tip! The link to this post is below. One question though, isn't brass non-conductive; how does this even work?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-old-graphite-ring-bumper-system#post-5394279

Brass is very conductive. Think it was the original metal for many old light bulbs.

#22 3 years ago

SteveinTexas

Pinside member