(Topic ID: 166269)

Partially assembled TwoBits WPC MPU

By mac622

7 years ago


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  • 76 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by DocRotCod
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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    There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 7 years ago
    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    The choke can be bypassed. I jumper it on a lot of CPUs I do alkaline repair on. The choke is available from Australia but is very expensive.

    Surprisingly, marco has it. But it's almost 6 bucks.

    http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5551-09822-00

    Some googling just turned up modern SMD/SMT parts.

    #52 7 years ago

    The choke is listed in my standards parts spreadsheet in this thread, it's $3.22.

    #53 7 years ago

    Ok, I dug around on mouser a bit, and found a few possibilities.

    I'm not familiar with inductors, so I'm not sure if it's ok to go with one rated for a higher amperage. here are 3.4a and 4a variants available.

    http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Inductors/Fixed-Inductors/_/N-wpcz?P=1z0wrgfZ1z0z819Z1z0jl4i

    #54 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    The choke is listed in my standards parts spreadsheet in this thread, it's $3.22.

    Whoops, forgot about that: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/partially-assembled-twobits-wpc-mpu?tu=pin_guy#post-3292953

    #55 7 years ago
    Quoted from DocRotCod:

    Ed, would it be possible to order from you and say "I need a set of components for the partially assembled WPC89 boards" and then you ship exactly what is needed?
    If so, I'm in as I think this is a fun project to tackle.

    Doc - PM you email address and I'll send you the parts list from GPE.

    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Unless I'm mistaken, there are two components (aside from the CPU, ASIC, and EPROM) that aren't on the GPE site:
    FILTER CHOKE 4.7uH 1 L1
    CI-192-050-3 (Circuit Board Hardware - PCB Crystal Insultr Tabs 2-Lead Nylon White) for X2
    I think everything else is available.

    This is correct - Ed does not carry the choke but he can suggest an alternative. You can pick that one part elsewhere, or <hint, hint> go to site such as, say, "coilcraft.com" and order a free sample or two Also, as Pin_Guy mentioned, the crystal insulator isn't 100% necessarily necessary (wordy?) so your choice.

    It really was a fun, worthwhile project and would highly recommend it to anyone. Shot me a PM if you have any question at all.

    #56 7 years ago
    Quoted from mac622:

    This is correct - Ed does not carry the choke but he can suggest an alternative. You can pick that one part elsewhere, or <hint, hint> go to site such as, say, "coilcraft.com" and order a free sample or two

    I have the replacement choke picked out from the manufacturer but never had the time to pull the handle on this one.
    Samples... absolutely the best way to get onesy-twosy parts. Molex is real good at this for connectors but limits contacts to only ten or so.

    1 month later
    #58 7 years ago
    Quoted from mac622:

    Anyone considering this project should do it! It was a great / fun project that only took about 1.5-2 hours to finish and was great for further developing the soldering skills. Because Ed at GPE is a regular contributor here on Pinside and a good guy I bought the parts from him instead of Mouser. After I finish up my FH I'm going to tackle one of the blank boards next
    Here is the finished board at work. I left the game on for about 8 hours and then played a bunch of games and no issues.

    Mac622 and Pin_guy:

    Have either of you noticed that the RTC clock runs fast? Really fast...

    My build was also fun and something everyone, who is looking to improve their soldering skills, should do. Anyway, the board started without a hitch, I set the clock, and played many games. I then noticed that 90 seconds would pass for every minute. Ugh...

    I purchased a quality crystal/Xtal (Citizen, 32.768KHz w/ 12.5pF) and thought there might be lots of "noise" from the board. So I brought out the trusty oscilloscope. The trace at U9 pin 70 was pretty; no noise. So, I compared the clock/signal from the new "Two Bits" and the original WPC board. Sure enough, the Two Bits board runs fast. You can see in the pictures there's 1.5 waveforms to the original's singular/full waveform. There's no way my crystal could be that far off!!!

    OK, referring to our trusty WPC schematic, R91 is 22MΩ and R92 is 470KΩ. Looking at the original board, you can clearly see a <b>Red-Red-Blue</b> (gold tolerance) banded resistor (22M&Omega, and a Yellow-Violet-Yellow (gold tolerance) banded resistor (470K&Omega

    But, on my Two Bits board, R91 is <b>Red-Red-Green (2.2M&Omega</b> R92 is fine. Looking at the (amazing) initial photos from Pin_Guy, his photos match my board.

    As for C28, C29, and C30, I can clearly see the color coded radial capacitors on the original board; they match the schematic (100pF, 22pF, and 22pF). The Two Bits board, I can see "220" on two <i>chicklet</i> capacitors, 22pF at C29 & C30. As for C28, I can only see "1 ( ) 1K". The "( )" is an odd encoding, but I'll interpret that to be 10 multiplied by 10, 100pF with "K" tolerance. Anyway, I'm pretty confident that the capacitors are right in the timing circuit, Only that R91 is wrong.

    Thoughts...

    A12742_rtcSignal_U9-pin70 (resized).jpgA12742_rtcSignal_U9-pin70 (resized).jpg

    twoBits_rtcSignal_U9-pin70 (resized).jpgtwoBits_rtcSignal_U9-pin70 (resized).jpg

    #59 7 years ago

    Are there different versions of the ULN2803 chips? Amazon shows ULN2803's, ULN2803A's, ULN2803APG's. What's the difference? Will any of them work? I have an intermittent on my TZ that I'm tracking down that keeps killing them. I'm looking to buy the cheapest possible ones.

    thanks,
    Steve

    #60 7 years ago

    I don't see any issues with the clock frequency on my board.

    Here are my clock signals at U9-70:
    CH1 (yellow) is the TwoBits MPU running on my workbench
    CH2 (blue) is an original Williams WPC-89 MPU installed in STTNG.

    There was a very slight roll on channel 2 (non triggered) due to a minor mismatch in frequencies; I put the O'scope on STOP after letting channel 2 roll to the cursors.

    32KHz Clock Signal (resized).png32KHz Clock Signal (resized).png

    #61 7 years ago

    Correcting the value of R91 should fix your problem.

    I used my TwoBits board to recreate the substitution of having a 2.2M resistor instead of a 22M resistor at R91. First I captured the expected 32.768kHz clock frequency at U9-70 and saved this as a reference waveform R1 (green). I then placed a 2.44M resistance (R91B) in parallel with the 22M R91 resistor, this essentially dropped the R91 circuit resistance to 2.2M ohms as R91B = 22 x 2.2/22-2.2.

    This change caused the average frequency of the clock on CH1 (Yellow) to nearly double its rate to 62.851kHz as seen below.

    Bad Clocks (resized).pngBad Clocks (resized).png

    #62 7 years ago

    Just had a look at the ebay link to these boards quoted above, was all ready to purchase as I thought this would be a good project and having a spare mpu board would be a good idea in case my TAF develops an issue, then I saw the shipping to AU $25.26, to quote a popular aussie film, 'Tell him he's dream'n'.
    For those of you not familiar with the film..

    1 week later
    #63 7 years ago

    Hey All,
    I wanted to "close the case" of the "speedy real time clock". My board truly had an incorrect 2.2M ohm at R91. My clock now keeps time, but only after replacing R91 with a 22M ohm. From above, you see that Pin_Guy's board has an accurate clock, so maybe some boards have the right resistor and some don't. It may be cheaper to order one or two 1/4 Watt 22M ohm resistors while placing the full order. Then to find out afterwards, that you need one. Good Luck.

    #64 7 years ago

    I don't think this was isolated to just your board, I've seen a couple other pictures of these boards which also appeared to have a 2.2M resistor installed as well; of course anyone using NVRAM wouldn't notice anyways since the clock is always going to be off unless they never turn off their machine.

    I didn't actually start with a partially assembled board for this project, but opted to buy a completely blank board and and the parts, a link to the complete BOM is listed near the beginning of this topic.

    9 months later
    #65 6 years ago

    Thought I would breathe some life into this thread. Just did a partially assembled board. I used components from a thrashed original WMS board. At first the game would come up crazy, was the NVRAM I was using. Put in original RAM and game fires up and plays. Having a few issues but think it's the ribbon cables.

    Time does go double speed, so will be replacing R91 with a 22M.

    I ordered some full blanks to try next.

    #66 6 years ago

    Quick question, I noticed on my 'partially built' board, w6 is jumpered and w7 is not. This is the opposite of the factory wms board. My board is set for a 6264 FYI.

    Does anyone know what w6 w7 does?

    I noticed "Pin Guy" jumpered his just like the WMS board.

    #67 6 years ago
    Quoted from DocRotCod:

    Does anyone know what w6 w7 does?

    W6 / 7 selects power to RAM. (5.0 / Vcc)

    W6 = memory loss on power shut off
    W7 = memory remains

    #68 6 years ago

    Ok so if my board is jumpered w6 on w7 off, and has a standard RAM installed, it will lose it's settings (even with batteries installed) and w6 off w7 on it would retain?

    #69 6 years ago

    Yes, that's correct

    #70 6 years ago
    Quoted from zaza:

    Yes, that's correct

    Thank you so much for the info. I assume everyone that purchased the partially built boards will have an issue with settings being retained when using batteries and conventional RAM.

    I am using NVRAM on mine I only asked the question to understand the difference.

    Wonder why WMS had the option to not retain settings?

    #71 6 years ago

    I moved the jumper on my board and now power is supplied properly from the battery pack FYI.

    On another note, I swapped R91 with a 22M Ohm resistor and the board doesn't boot. Non of the LED's light and the 5v shuts down. I'm going to put the original resistor back in and see if it boots.

    #72 6 years ago
    Quoted from DocRotCod:

    On another note, I swapped R91 with a 22M Ohm resistor and the board doesn't boot.

    R91 is ONLY used to establish the RTC clock frequency.

    #73 6 years ago

    Yeah I don't get it. I'm double checking everything.

    #74 6 years ago

    Make sure you aren't shorting your 5V out with the mounting screws; the 5V bus on the topside of the boards runs way too close to these screws, I usually put nylon insulating washers on the top side.

    #75 6 years ago

    I bet that's it. This was the first time I tightened the screws. I will report back.

    #76 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Make sure you aren't shorting your 5V out with the mounting screws; the 5V bus on the topside of the boards runs way too close to these screws, I usually put nylon insulating washers on the top side.

    That was it! Ran board not secured to backbox and it comes up fine. Thanks for the tip.

    There are 76 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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