Partial payment for partial code - Stern

(Topic ID: 194438)

Partial payment for partial code - Stern


By Barakawins1

1 year ago



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  • 42 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Mfsrc791
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    #1 1 year ago

    So, seems like thousands of us have been waiting for code. Kiss, WWE, Star Trek, etc... Since code is not being fully released with new Sterns, there should a partial payment plan. 50% code release, 50% payment. Code finished, remaining payment paid in full! No code, cuz ya moved on, no problem... No further payment. Anyone in?

    31
    #2 1 year ago

    Why don't you just hold off on buying the NIB pinball until you're satisfied that the code is where you want it? (Serious question. Not trying to be a jerk.)

    #3 1 year ago

    I agree. How bout no payment until the game is finished.

    #4 1 year ago

    That's never gonna go. Too many people with too much excitement and too much cash only to be met with too much disappointment, with too much short term memory loss to buy a too expensive table the next go around only to be too disappointed again with too little code.

    I think that about covers it

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from AlbanyTim:

    Why don't you just hold off on buying the NIB pinball until you're satisfied that the code is where you want it? (Serious question. Not trying to be a jerk.)

    Cuz I already have a Kiss and expected code to be finished within a few mos-year and it didn't happen with no updates?

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Too many people with too much excitement and too much cash only to be met with too much disappointment

    Works perfect for the bi-polar crowd.

    #7 1 year ago

    If stern waited for 100% payment based on 100% code, they would never get fully paid for their machines.

    #8 1 year ago

    Contractors do not get paid until the job is complete why should pinball be different. Do people buy cars 75% complete? Pinball people are crazy! Present company included.....

    #9 1 year ago

    barakawins1 - I would assume you now have learnt your lesson. Speak with your wallet. If Stern decides to not finish games then don't buy them. Once the bottom line starts hurting......they'll change..until then they'll keep pulling shit like they've just done on SW Le with no shaker. If you don;t make them accountable....they'll keep doing the exact same thing.

    #10 1 year ago

    Wimpy (resized).jpg

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Cuz I already have a Kiss and expected code to be finished within a few mos-year and it didn't happen with no updates?

    You are probably out of luck on that one. They don't have a great track record of finishing games that didn't sell well.

    I won't even consider a stern pin until it has been out a year, and the code is around the 1.6 level. That seems to be the point that it is pretty complete. If I am not ok with the code as it is, I won't buy it. AC/DC and Metallica (the only stern pins I have bought) were both around this level, and I was happy with the code in both. AC/DC got one small update after I bought it, and Met has had two.

    #12 1 year ago

    Yeah, I'd say the ship's already sailed on that one.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I agree. How bout no payment until the game is finished.

    There would be zero companies currently making games if this was the case.

    #14 1 year ago

    Peeps would never think of buying a car without complete code,

    or pretty much, everything else sold retail or commercial.

    What other half-baked-$5,000++ consumer products are sold unfinished??

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    There would be zero companies currently making games if this was the case.

    Then maybe they would start getting their shit together.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Then maybe they would start getting their shit together.

    Agreed. All the companies should. Not sure why Stern gets singled out.

    Oh wait, it's Pinside.

    #17 1 year ago

    I mean it's not like they have to rush these games out with bare bones code to hit the street to catch the hype while the themes are relevant and current.

    #18 1 year ago

    There isn't enough financial incentive to improve code over time as there is a point of diminishing returns as far as it driving sales of the machine. Fix that and you'll fix the incomplete code problem. Find a way for them to develop a competent base level of software that is sufficient to release and drive sales of the machines but charge for new significantly improved or varied versions and they will decide it might be worth having an developer spend payroll time on it.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    What other half-baked-$5,000++ consumer products are sold unfinished??

    I can't think of any.

    My pinball machines offer the worst overall quality when compared to other products I own in the 5K-10K range. However, they are also more fun than most of those other products.

    #20 1 year ago

    Stern would simply declare all of the incomplete code to be done, and expect payment.

    Quoted from smokedog:

    Agreed. All the companies should. Not sure why Stern gets singled out.
    Oh wait, it's Pinside.

    Who else releases code that is intentionally incomplete? Not bug fixes or improvements...

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    I can't think of any.
    My pinball machines offer the worst overall quality when compared to other products I own in the 5K-10K range. However, they are also more fun than most of those other products.

    Self-driving cars that download updates to their software.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Who else releases code that is intentionally incomplete? Not bug fixes or improvements...

    I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.

    #23 1 year ago

    It's a shame that Batman dying while waiting for his own game to get coded probably won't change anything, but kudos to Stern for at least getting it out there before he kicked the bucket.

    #24 1 year ago

    I bought Kiss early and sold it because the code was trash even after the most recent update. That's not Stern's fault, that's MY fault for buying an incomplete game.

    I got what I paid for, and I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. Was hoping for better code, it didn't come, so I cut my losses and moved on.

    Bought a Met Pro shortly after. Bolted to the floor. Live and learn.

    #25 1 year ago

    Isnt WOF still unfinished? Think about that one.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.

    It's pretty simple. I'm asking if any of the other companies are releasing incomplete code, rather than releasing new versions that fix some bug or add an unexpected improvement that they stumbled upon.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from hAbO:

    Is WOF still unfinished? Think about that one.

    This is an awesome example of... Well, we didn't make money, so run. Yes it's not complete from what I know. In addition, I don't think
    I've see one around in years.

    #28 1 year ago

    And who is going to determine when the code is 100%? If it's someone from this site then no game will ever be considered 100% done.

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    It's pretty simple. I'm asking if any of the other companies are releasing incomplete code, rather than releasing new versions that fix some bug or add an unexpected improvement that they stumbled upon.

    I thought the OP was talking about games being released with incomplete code. I responded that I believe that applies to all of the companies making pins.

    Isn't there a final wizard mode coming for Hobbit? Or is it finished besides bug fixes?

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Well, we didn't make money, so run.

    And there you have it. There is also the "we won't be making any more money on this one, so run"

    #31 1 year ago

    Yeah I have a problem with a game coming out with poorly done, basic code or incomplete code.

    It's not just Stern though, Spooky released RZ (which I have) with code that was very lacking and many promises of it getting better. The new v20 code is a vast improvement, but still full of bugs. Spooky says they will be releasing more and fixing those bugs and adding more stuff in. The great part is they have pretty much committed to doing more releases so I'm hanging onto my RZ.

    JJP released WOZ and TH early on with very incomplete code, but they made the commitment to do more and have done so.

    The problem I see is Stern is releasing games with early code, and not committing to what will ever be added/completed. TWD code got much better. GB got much better, but it could use another release.

    I'm guilt of getting on a list to buy SW Premium, but I do have to wonder if I want to pay for it and take delivery if the code isn't improved dramatically before then. I can't trust Stern to commit to future release.

    I did purposely decided not to buy BM66 because of cost and code state, but I'm in the 'hope' camp for SW since I have money down on one. Hindsight I think I should have just waited on SW.

    #32 1 year ago

    This idea is unnecessary. Just don't buy the game until you consider the code "done". Problem solved.

    Why can't some buyers accept blame for their own decisions? In nearly all cases they probably knew better but bought anyway.

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Cuz I already have a Kiss and expected code to be finished within a few mos-year and it didn't happen with no updates?

    Okay lesson learned then right? Don't buy again unless your satisfied with the current state of a game.

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    barakawins1 - I would assume you now have learnt your lesson. Speak with your wallet. If Stern decides to not finish games then don't buy them. Once the bottom line starts hurting......they'll change..until then they'll keep pulling shit like they've just done on SW Le with no shaker. If you don;t make them accountable....they'll keep doing the exact same thing.

    Would you stop that "making sense" shit? We need our "oooo ahhh" machines with incomplete code and more and more lacking of features NOW!

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from BudManPinFan:

    And who is going to determine when the code is 100%?

    Top men.

    capeotway6e (resized).jpg

    #36 1 year ago

    Isn't this like buying a video game, and the developers never build out the final level?

    #37 1 year ago

    Its funny to me. I enjoy my Kiss Premium, but Kiss has taken such a bashing due to lack of code.....with a code update, Kiss could really be a contender with current releases. Its got a helluva a light show a smooth shots.....one code update.....this game would get a lot more respect....and I bet Stern would move a few more...

    #38 1 year ago

    Be careful what you ask for. Much more likely is Stern decides to charge you full price up front and then make you pay extra for later code updates (a la DLC for video games).

    Seriously though, Stern has improved significantly here - GOT, Aerosmith, and Star Wars all have had pretty solid code right out of the gates. That's not much solace for Kiss owners, sure, but they deserve some credit for improvement, and hopefully this trend will continue moving forward. For my part, I won't buy a Stern game based on expectations of better code down the line. If the code isn't already pretty good, I'll wait.

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Radagast:

    Be careful what you ask for. Much more likely is Stern decides to charge you full price up front and then make you pay extra for later code updates (a la DLC for video games).

    They do that and they can pretty much say goodbye to all their revenue. I think people are paying way too much as it is. I just can't wait until they release their mods for Star Wars in their store. That will put gasoline on the fire for all the Prem and LE buyers. Mark my words...

    #40 1 year ago

    I find this thread ironic since just a few weeks ago, stern was shipping new star wars pinball machines WITH NO FUCKING CODE AT ALL. I'm talking inop machines that people paid in full.

    Funny how some are bending over and holding their ankles while Gary slips them a little sausage in the can.

    #41 1 year ago
    Quoted from Barakawins1:

    Cuz I already have a Kiss and expected code to be finished within a few mos-year and it didn't happen with no updates?

    Why did you expect that? At that time there was no indication that Stern was completing code unless it was a Lyman game, and those would take ages. There was no indication that that Lonnie and that crew would complete it.

    You got what you paid for. Any presumed promise after that was just you.

    #42 1 year ago

    Wait you mean these guys?

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