(Topic ID: 288096)

Part 2 - Beware of Jonathan Demare / ASOA

By Mr68

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Ericpinballfan
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    There are 682 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 14.
    #301 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Well that’s good. I’m glad he believed that aliens were right around the corner even though everyone else on earth knew they weren’t. That makes thinks all better. Come on man. You think pinball brothers were cool with some no name, non-distributor was taking deposits for a game they didn’t even announce yet? Doubtful.

    You better get your facts straight on who was involved.

    Kim is on the case though. You guys get together and figure it out

    Since it affects neither one of you I’m at a loss?

    All survivors are getting taken care of

    Why that isn’t good enough for some of you is beyond me

    I’m an open book. Call me or pm me

    #302 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    You better get your facts straight on who was involved.

    The OP was involved from the other thread right? I quoted him. He paid in full for an alien and never got it according to him. Is that not true?

    -6
    #303 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    The OP was involved from the other thread right? I quoted him. He paid in full for an alien and never got it according to him. Is that not true?

    And he got paid back fully. Shit happens. I know the MOB hates redemption

    Have Jpop people received refunds? F no. I’m one of them.

    Heighway. F no. I’m one of them

    36
    #304 3 years ago

    Well I guess I’m not into getting screwed over. And I don’t think anyone else should be either. And I think that the people that are screwing good people over in this hobby should be blacklisted it should be shouted form the mountain tops so these people cannot take advantage of anyone again.

    We’ve seen way too much of this. It sucks.

    #305 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Well I guess I’m not into getting screwed over. And I don’t think anyone else should be either. And I think that the people that are screwing good people over in this hobby should be blacklisted it should be shouted form the mountain tops so these people cannot take advantage of anyone again.
    We’ve seen way too much of this. It sucks.

    Asked and answered counselor

    #306 3 years ago

    Goodnight Pinsiders.

    -15
    #307 3 years ago

    Omg

    Here is what we know so far.

    Beware of the Boogeyman Jonathan!

    It’s been over a year now.

    But he is gonna get you.

    Go back to crapping on Stern for $1k toppers and JJP for raising prices on the LE of GNR

    Oh the horror of it all. LMAO

    You can’t wear me down.

    34
    #308 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Omg
    Here is what we know so far.
    Beware of the Boogeyman Jonathan!
    It’s been over a year now.
    But he is gonna get you.
    Go back to crapping on Stern for $1k toppers and JJP for raising prices on the LE of GNR
    Oh the horror of it all. LMAO
    You can’t wear me down.

    Go to bed.

    #309 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Omg
    Here is what we know so far.
    Beware of the Boogeyman Jonathan!
    It’s been over a year now.
    But he is gonna get you.
    Go back to crapping on Stern for $1k toppers and JJP for raising prices on the LE of GNR
    Oh the horror of it all. LMAO
    You can’t wear me down.

    Did you fall and hit your head? I am worried about you!

    41
    #310 3 years ago
    F8C05AA8-2ACF-4A02-927B-3DE329E7BF82.gifF8C05AA8-2ACF-4A02-927B-3DE329E7BF82.gif
    14
    #311 3 years ago

    Or you could all smarten up and keep your money until a game is physically there.

    Maybe I'm just just a cheap x#nt but reading this thread makes me think vanity of owning a rare/expensive game made some of you stupid.....

    #312 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Kim is on the case though. You guys get together and figure it out

    You're beginning to obsess over me, again. Please check yourself.
    We got along best when you had me on your ignore list.

    #313 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    All survivors are getting taken care of
    Why that isn’t good enough for some of you is beyond me

    You don’t know that all the victims “are getting taken care of”. How about the people on BBB? They are still listed as unresolved.

    https://www.bbb.org/us/fl/plantation/profile/wholesale-video-games/amusement-services-of-america-0633-90429527/complaints#0

    There’s others threads on other forums as well plus some people who got scammed probably have no idea what Pinside is.

    Maybe we should make a list of the known victims and invite others from the other forums & BBB to validate they’ve been paid instead of your assumptions?

    -1
    #314 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Total equates to about $45k roughly. I’m thinking no one else is close?
    I’m confident Jonathan will make good and you can judge me as a stupid idiot I don’t care . I’ve been around long enough
    I was down $194k in my trading account today. I only say that to put in perspective on how I look at it

    So, did you go get drunk or something when you found out you lost $239,000?

    Quoted from iceman44:

    Omg
    Here is what we know so far.
    Beware of the Boogeyman Jonathan!
    It’s been over a year now.
    But he is gonna get you.
    Go back to crapping on Stern for $1k toppers and JJP for raising prices on the LE of GNR
    Oh the horror of it all. LMAO
    You can’t wear me down.

    #315 3 years ago

    It is clear to me that some of these exceptional posts should be on Facebook helping to invent the news and cripple all human society.

    I don’t disagree with the constructive posts. The guidance to view this as a criminal matter seems logical. I do however feel compelled to call out people who are just lobbing shit into the air and hoping for the worst possible situation.

    Do any of you with the attacking and accusatory comments think you are helping any of us? If someone can produce material evidence of a “Jonathan scam” that happened in the last six month’s I am all in for immediate jail time. If not, it is possible there was embellishment and massive personal “fuck up”.

    Again, there is no defense or support coming from me. I am trying to use the facts I have to make my decisions. Posting about someone having a multi-million dollar house and lavish cars sounds good but I haven’t been able to find evidence of it. Someone please PM me all the data you have and I’ll take it right to the police.

    #316 3 years ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    It is clear to me that some of these exceptional posts should be on Facebook helping to invent the news and cripple all human society.
    I don’t disagree with the constructive posts. The guidance to view this as a criminal matter seems logical. I do however feel compelled to call out people who are just lobbing shit into the air and hoping for the worst possible situation.
    Do any of you with the attacking and accusatory comments think you are helping any of us? If someone can produce material evidence of a “Jonathan scam” that happened in the last six month’s I am all in for immediate jail time. If not, it is possible there was embellishment and massive personal “fuck up”.
    Again, there is no defense or support coming from me. I am trying to use the facts I have to make my decisions. Posting about someone having a multi-million dollar house and lavish cars sounds good but I haven’t been able to find evidence of it. Someone please PM me all the data you have and I’ll take it right to the police.

    You’re a good person and I’m sorry you’re having to go through this.

    It’s a public forum, so a thread like this is going to be full of all kinds of wild crap postings.
    Don’t let them get to you though.
    At the end of the day you gotta do what’s right for you and that’s what matters.

    #317 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Hmmm, here's a thought, he was an "authorized distributor" for JJP.
    Maybe i should include JJP in on any lawsuit for POTC and WOZ?
    Once again, just rampant nonsense but thanks for the advice. I've bought MANY games over the past decade and I always come out on the plus side. One way or the other, this time will be no different.
    But you can root for my failure, it's ok. lol
    Either way, it won't affect my enjoyment of pinball!

    You are barking up the wrong tree with Hemispheres. He is one of the best and an AUTHORIZED dealer that does not sell futures on pinballs that do not exist.

    #318 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    You are barking up the wrong tree with Hemispheres. He is one of the best and an AUTHORIZED dealer that does not sell futures on pinballs that do not exist.

    They treated me right last fall. Smooth and professional the whole way

    21
    #319 3 years ago

    iceman44

    I have few questions maybe you would be willing to shed light on. Why does ASOA use a P.O. Box as an address? Why can no one seem to find or ever seen this physical warehouse or all these games he has on locations? Why does he need to meet a delivery guy in a parking lot to deliver his games?

    These do not equate to the guy you seem to be describing? Are we ALL missing something?

    #320 3 years ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    OP here.
    So far I haven’t gotten any negative emails from anybody affected. All are happy so far.

    I got a response from jd a few days ago but no plan for repayment or anything since. Just FYI. Not everyone being made whole.

    #321 3 years ago

    Ok let’s start with all you (including me) who bought a Stern game from ASOA in the last 3 years & received it.

    Go get your serial number off your machine(s).

    Next call Stern and ASK them who the distributor was that sold the machine.

    Then please report back here to this thread who the distributor was. We will find out which big distributor was enabling / participating in this scheme.

    People say there were a few - but when we look at the % I believe a majority was sold through 1 distributor.

    By the way I hope I am wrong cuz this would not look good.

    #322 3 years ago
    Quoted from cpr9999:

    Ok let’s start with all you (including me) who bought a Stern game from ASOA in the last 3 years & received it.
    Go get your serial number off your machine(s).
    Next call Stern and ASK them who the distributor was that sold the machine.
    Then please report back here to this thread who the distributor was. We will find out which big distributor was enabling / participating in this scheme.
    People say there were a few - but when we look at the % I believe a majority was sold through 1 distributor.
    By the way I hope I am wrong cuz this would not look good.

    OP here:

    So lets see:
    You are a pinball enthusiast. You weren’t involved in the scam. But you want to now go after pinball distributors that may have sold Jonathan pinball machines, and speculate that they may have known what Jonathan was doing.

    Great idea! Let’s see if we can get licenses pulled from distributors. To what end?

    How does that help anyone?

    Do us pinball enthusiasts a favor. Don’t fuck up our world any more than what we have dealt with here. Leave the distributors alone. As I said, the machines that I did get from Jonathan came from different sources. And iceman44 says that his did too. And so did @bmegar.

    We have taken down the perpetrator, who has payed or is paying all of those involved. I’m all for taking care of a situation and helping those who have been taken advantage of. But if we go after distributors from whom Jonathan got the pins he sold, we are assuming that they knew what he was doing and are guilty.

    I don’t want to possibly hurt innocent parties. Jonathan is a very charismatic person and was able to charm many of us into believing that he was doing no wrong. He could have been equally deceptive with those who sold him his pins. Should we now punish others that he charmed after we have helped all of those to whom he owes money? Do you want to hurt possibly innocent people? I surely don’t.

    Let’s not do any more damage than has already been done.

    Bill Clement

    12
    #323 3 years ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    OP here:
    So lets see:
    You are a pinball enthusiast. You weren’t involved in the scam. But you want to now go after pinball distributors that may have sold Jonathan pinball machines, and speculate that they may have known what Jonathan was doing.
    Great idea! Let’s see if we can get licenses pulled from (most likely) uninvolved distributors. Because you think it would be fun?
    How does that help anyone?
    Do us pinball enthusiasts a favor. Don’t fuck up our world any more than what we have dealt with here. Leave the distributors alone. As I said, the machines that I did get from Jonathan came from different sources. And iceman44 says that his did too. And so did bmegar.
    A witch hunt is a witch hunt. We have taken down the perpetrator, who has payed or is paying all of those involved.
    Go get your jollies somewhere else.
    Bill Clement

    But it appears he hasn't "taken care of all those involved" though. Saying one thing and doing another is again playing people (by him).. . Good for you and Snaroff, but is he REALLY contacting everyone?

    Good for you for calling him out... but until everyone says he's following through I wouldn't start defending him yet.

    #324 3 years ago
    Quoted from paynemic:

    I got a response from jd a few days ago but no plan for repayment or anything since. Just FYI. Not everyone being made whole.

    I have been making sure that everybody involved is getting taken care of by Jonathan. I called him about your situation just now to make sure that he takes care of you. Apparently he had just sent you the money via PayPal. He also texted me the PayPal transaction screenshot. Can you please confirm?

    10
    #325 3 years ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    I have been making sure that everybody involved is getting taken care of by Jonathan. I called him about your situation just now to make sure that he takes care of you. Apparently he had just sent you the money via PayPal. He also texted me the PayPal transaction screenshot. Can you please confirm?

    I did get it via PayPal just now after I reminded him.

    10
    #326 3 years ago

    It's hard to keep track of who you ripped off when there's so many. Lots of reminders are expected.

    #327 3 years ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    OP here:
    So lets see:
    You are a pinball enthusiast. You weren’t involved in the scam. But you want to now go after pinball distributors that may have sold Jonathan pinball machines, and speculate that they may have known what Jonathan was doing.
    Great idea! Let’s see if we can get licenses pulled from distributors. To what end?
    How does that help anyone?
    Do us pinball enthusiasts a favor. Don’t fuck up our world any more than what we have dealt with here. Leave the distributors alone. As I said, the machines that I did get from Jonathan came from different sources. And iceman44 says that his did too. And so did bmegar.
    We have taken down the perpetrator, who has payed or is paying all of those involved. I’m all for taking care of a situation and helping those who have been taken advantage of. But if we go after distributors from whom Jonathan got the pins he sold, we are assuming that they knew what he was doing and are guilty.
    I don’t want to possibly hurt innocent parties. Jonathan is a very charismatic person and was able to charm many of us into believing that he was doing no wrong. He could have been equally deceptive with those who sold him his pins. Should we now punish others that he charmed after we have helped all of those to whom he owes money? Do you want to hurt possibly innocent people? I surely don’t.
    Let’s not do any more damage than has already been done.
    Bill Clement

    I keep reading there is more to the story that only the people involved know so let’s hear it. As for the distributor let them tell their side of the story. Stern obviously told them to knock it off and the games Jonathan was selling dried up. If stern didn’t pull their distributorship back in August why would they do it now?

    #328 3 years ago
    Quoted from cpr9999:

    Ok let’s start with all you (including me) who bought a Stern game from ASOA in the last 3 years & received it.
    Go get your serial number off your machine(s).
    Next call Stern and ASK them who the distributor was that sold the machine.
    Then please report back here to this thread who the distributor was. We will find out which big distributor was enabling / participating in this scheme.
    People say there were a few - but when we look at the % I believe a majority was sold through 1 distributor.
    By the way I hope I am wrong cuz this would not look good.

    I'd take that bet and wager some good coin on it.

    15
    #329 3 years ago
    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
    11
    #330 3 years ago
    Quoted from turbo20lbs:

    It's hard to keep track of who you ripped off when there's so many. Lots of reminders are expected.

    I had 9 years of the justice dept due to my actions. (Marijuana load) Pre trial, prison, supervised release. Pre trial was hardest. Unless your a rat, your not sure of your outcome or how much time you will get. Then supervised release because it's a theoretical life sentence. They can keep sending you back and restart the beginning of your 3 to 5 years of supervised release. Prison was easiest. I just despised rats and white collar guys whose victims were people instead of banks or Institutions.

    The whole point is deterrence. Which is why prosecutors slap people on the wrist, but get in on paper. Next time, problem is much bigger. And with these types of scammers, there is usually an escalation of money. My deterrence was achieved. I purchase marijuana from legal delivery services. I pay way more than I would if I made a few calls to old buddies, or even returned a few calls. I miss old friends, but wouldn't walk in anyone's house that does anything illegal. That's deterrence. Not that a prosecutor would pick this (case) up (a few would still with one complainant), but I don't see any deterrence from this guy doing it again, and on a much bigger level. Bravo to the man for making restitution if that's the case. Sometimes things end up as they should, but the multitude of effects this has on victims can be understated.

    #331 3 years ago
    Quoted from jamesmc:

    I had 9 years of the justice dept due to my actions. (Marijuana load) Pre trial, prison, supervised release. Pre trial was hardest. Unless your a rat, your not sure of your outcome or how much time you will get. Then supervised release because it's a theoretical life sentence. They can keep sending you back and restart the beginning of your 3 to 5 years of supervised release. Prison was easiest. I just despised rats and white collar guys whose victims were people instead of banks or Institutions.
    The whole point is deterrence. Which is why prosecutors slap people on the wrist, but get in on paper. Next time, problem is much bigger. And with these types of scammers, there is usually an escalation of money. My deterrence was achieved. I purchase marijuana from legal delivery services. I pay way more than I would if I made a few calls to old buddies, or even returned a few calls. I miss old friends, but wouldn't walk in anyone's house that does anything illegal. That's deterrence. Not that a prosecutor would pick this (case) up (a few would still with one complainant), but I don't see any deterrence from this guy doing it again, and on a much bigger level. Bravo to the man for making restitution if that's the case. Sometimes things end up as they should, but the multitude of effects this has on victims can be understated.

    8FDEF4C8-1D4F-4486-8522-49A50E981C21 (resized).jpeg8FDEF4C8-1D4F-4486-8522-49A50E981C21 (resized).jpeg
    #332 3 years ago
    Quoted from estrader:

    I keep reading there is more to the story that only the people involved know so let’s hear it. As for the distributor let them tell their side of the story. Stern obviously told them to knock it off and the games Jonathan was selling dried up. If stern didn’t pull their distributorship back in August why would they do it now?

    I don't believe the distributors were "responsible" for my awful Rick & Morty transaction.

    The responsible parties were myself and JD/ASOA. Period.

    If you read my story (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804), I guess you could argue the 4 successful Stern transactions "primed" me for the awful Rick & Morty transaction. If so, why punish distributors that helped with my successful transactions? Just doesn't make sense. I don't believe this was a conspiracy!

    The distributor that never produced my Rick & Morty can't be tracked since I never received a game or game #. JD/ASOA is the only person that knows the R&M distributor. If a distributor never existed, then invoice #631005 (12/16/19) was fraudulent. If a distributor did exist for this invoice, then the situation is more complex, for sure.

    Nevertheless, my R&M fiasco was resolved in 2 phases: 10/13/20 (AIQ Pro delivered) and 2/16/21 ($1,750 balance paid as a result of the Pinside "arbitration").

    I/we are "big boys", responsible for our actions!

    The idea that I/we were dealing with a known shyster just to save a few bucks is ludicrous. I did business with JD/ASOA willingly, for many reasons. He had exceptional Pinside reviews at the time (which we all value when making transactions), he was passionate about pinball (we had many long conversations on gameplay, rules, designers, etc.), and he was giving me timely support on the Stern games I purchased. JD/ASOA also seemed plugged into events/people in the pinball industry. Lastly, on a couple occasions JD offered support/advice on selling games purchased through other distributors.

    Again, I don't see the wisdom of going on a witch-hunt for distributors. The distributors and their agreements with pinball manufacturers is opaque from where I sit. If someone impacted by JD/ASOA sees value/virtue in going after the distributors, they are free to do so!

    P.S.: Despite being made whole recently, this failed R&M transaction still "cost me" (to the tune of a ~$2,000 premium on the local/open collector market), since I really wanted this title for my son (who was 9 when we embarked on this hobby together). Now 25. Even though I never heard of R&M, I'm now a huge fan of the show, game, and Spooky. If this weren't the case, this transaction would suck even more! Sometimes pain is worth the gain?

    #333 3 years ago

    Read it wrong . Thought it was the loss on selling not buying

    #334 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    I don't believe the distributors were "responsible" for my awful Rick & Morty transaction.
    The responsible parties were myself and JD/ASOA. Period.
    If you read my story (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804), I guess you could argue the 4 successful Stern transactions "primed" me for the awful Rick & Morty transaction. If so, why punish distributors that helped with my successful transactions? Just doesn't make sense. I don't believe this was a conspiracy!
    The distributor that never produced my Rick & Morty can't be tracked since I never received a game or game #. JD/ASOA is the only person that knows the R&M distributor. If a distributor never existed, then invoice #631005 (12/16/19) was fraudulent. If a distributor did exist for this invoice, then the situation is more complex, for sure.
    Nevertheless, my R&M fiasco was resolved in 2 phases: 10/13/20 (AIQ Pro delivered) and 2/16/21 ($1,750 balance paid as a result of the Pinside "arbitration").
    I/we are "big boys", responsible for our actions!
    The idea that I/we were dealing with a known shyster just to save a few bucks is ludicrous. I did business with JD/ASOA willingly, for many reasons. He had exceptional Pinside reviews at the time (which we all value when making transactions), he was passionate about pinball (we had many long conversations on gameplay, rules, designers, etc.), and he was giving me timely support on the Stern games I purchased. JD/ASOA also seemed plugged into events/people in the pinball industry. Lastly, on a couple occasions JD offered support/advice on selling games purchased through other distributors.
    Again, I don't see the wisdom of going on a witch-hunt for distributors. The distributors and their agreements with pinball manufacturers is opaque from where I sit. If someone impacted by JD/ASOA sees value/virtue in going after the distributors, they are free to do so!
    P.S.: Despite being made whole recently, this failed R&M transaction still "cost me" (to the tune of a ~$2,000 premium on the local/open collector market), since I really wanted this title for my son (who was 9 when we embarked on this hobby together). Now 25. Even though I never heard of R&M, I'm now a huge fan of the show, game, and Spooky. If this weren't the case, this transaction would suck even more! Sometimes pain is worth the gain?

    Completely agree on Rick and Morty. There was no distributor involved it sounds like even.

    My issue, which is my opinion, the distributor selling the sterns not only aided Jonathan Demare but it also cost other pinball consumers money.

    I had to overpay for my maiden because they sold out but I read Jonathan sold at least one LE to someone, what other games did this happen with? Who else overpaid for a game they wanted because this distributor and Jonathan were busy selling games below msrp?

    While the people directly involved with Jonathan lost more this crap effects everyone. What about the guy trying to get started being a distributor how much more difficult will it be for them because of Jonathan? Bottom line is that this situation makes it more difficult for everyone.

    #335 3 years ago
    Quoted from Happy81724:

    That’s assuming you sold or flipped it quick. Hard to quantify it if you intended to keep and play it then possible selling it down the road. Spooky pins usually start very high and as they are all released it’s drops.
    Still sucks you didn’t get It to enjoy but if you’re patient Id bet down the road you’ll get one reasonable

    Understood, but you still sound a little confused. I purchased a NIB R&M from a local collector in November, 2020 (one month after acquiring the AIQ Pro). I paid a tad less than 2k over what the local collector paid for the game (he gave me the receipt). At the time, the collector could have likely gotten closer to 3k over!

    I'm pretty convinced R&M will hold it's value. The license is amazing, modern, & unique. Theme integration is the best ever. And the gameplay is brutal and fun. The game has everything. I also have the "butter cabinet" which is the nicest cabinet I've ever seen (and I've had HEP restored games, Big Time cabinets, etc.). The number of loaded Rick and Morty's in the US with the "butter cabinet" will be about 200 or so? I think I'm safe, but really have no plans to ever sell it.

    #336 3 years ago
    Quoted from estrader:

    Completely agree on Rick and Morty. There was no distributor involved it sounds like even.
    My issue, which is my opinion, the distributor selling the sterns not only aided Jonathan Demare but it also cost other pinball consumers money.
    I had to overpay for my maiden because they sold out but I read Jonathan sold at least one LE to someone, what other games did this happen with? Who else overpaid for a game they wanted because this distributor and Jonathan were busy selling games below msrp?
    While the people directly involved with Jonathan lost more this crap effects everyone. What about the guy trying to get started being a distributor how much more difficult will it be for them because of Jonathan? Bottom line is that this situation makes it more difficult for everyone.

    I don't see the connection between JD selling an IMDNLE (at whatever price) and you having to "overpay" for one. If JD didn't sell the IMDNLE, someone else would have (most likely the distributor that sold it through JD). The LE's sell out *independent of price*. In today's world, even Premiums have become really hard to get!

    #337 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    I don't see the connection between JD selling an IMDNLE (at whatever price) and you having to "overpay" for one. If JD didn't sell the IMDNLE, someone else would have (most likely the distributor that sold it through JD). The LE's sell out *independent of price*. The margins are minuscule! In today's world, even Premiums have become really hard to get!

    Not saying me necessarily but this is just one example someone had to overpay because that game should not have gone to Jonathan to sell. Exactly my point with games being harder to get is how many other people had to overpay because of Jonathan and this distributor?

    14
    #338 3 years ago

    I have no horse in this race, just to be clear.

    What do believe is I smell a rat, a big juicy rat that does not want to be sent down the legal drainpipe. Why? I have to believe J.D. is involved with "other" businesses that may not be quite on level surfaces either. Where else is this cash coming from? He goes down through the legal system and it ALL comes crashing down. If this were true and legit business failures, he would have been in court filing his B.K. for the LLC. Pay off the loudest, problem goes away, turn the attention to the other businesses. This is why MANY of you will see your refunds.

    It doesn't matter how or why or what B.S. excuse is next, J.D. was selling Alien, R & M, & LE machines he never had from the get go. This is a fact that cannot be continuously glossed over.

    Now where did all these discount machines that he did have to sell come from?
    I can give a little bit of a secret that distributors or operators can do to pocket cash. Lets say an OP buys 25 machines from a distributor and puts them all out on route. Oops, one is vandalized, Oops, one is stolen, Oops, one spontaneously combusted, Oops, one fell of the truck and they are now written off as losses. In reality, they are sold for cash, at a discount, and the Op just pocketed $16K in cash, tax free. You don't think that happens? So, J.D. gets himself a few Op's that wish to play ball and there are his sources. STERN can't do shit about that. I might have some enemies after posting this.

    #339 3 years ago

    The ones who need to have a chat with the manufacturers are the authorized dealers who had biz taken off their plate by "unfair competition" and market manipulation.

    IMO there is no way the manufactures were clueless this volume of games was being sold outside of their proper channels and chose to do nothing about it.

    This goes back to parallel trading I brought up earlier.... this happens in a ton of consumer businesses

    It is up to the manufacturer and brand holders to hold those they sell to accountable to their agreements and to call them out on selling outside of them.

    If they chose to not do that in this case (which is likely) this shit is on them as much as anyone as they allowed this low pricing to fly and did not protect their authorized dealers.

    Likely a big distrib was doing this and noone had the balls to tell them to stop (dont want to piss off the big buyers) and didnt care because end of day they still got paid.

    #340 3 years ago
    Quoted from estrader:

    Not saying me necessarily but this is just one example someone had to overpay because that game should not have gone to Jonathan to sell. Exactly my point with games being harder to get is how many other people had to overpay because of Jonathan and this distributor?

    You're gonna strain your back stretching that much.

    I agree that the scheme should be exposed - but your stretch to lay out others are overpaying because of it is bs and not needed.

    It's more about other dealers being undercut by schemed deals... not buyers facing artificial price inflation.

    #341 3 years ago

    I’m still leaning toward theft / insurance fraud / some other bush league grift than this convoluted “undercutting the dealers” or “arbitrage” schemes you guys keep bandying around, which don’t make any fuggin sense when you consider the tiny profit margins distributors make on pinball machines.

    Either way it really doesn’t matter. Well probably never know as it’s unlikely this ever goes to court. Amusement Scam of America has been called out and exposed and that should be the end of it. Hopefully he pays everybody back and moves on to some other grift far away from our beloved hobby.

    #342 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I’m still leaning toward theft / insurance fraud / some other bush league grift than this convicted “undercutting the dealers” scheme you guys keep bandying around, which don’t make any fuggin sense when you consider the tiny profit margins distributors make on pinball machines.
    Either way it really doesn’t matter. amusement Scam of America has been called out and exposed and that should be the end of it. Hopefully he pays everybody back and moves on to some other grift far away from our beloved hobby.

    Its some mix of all the above.... (again its important to note that a distributor and a dealer are not the same thing)

    End of day it shows the level of arrogance the manufacturers have with their dealers that sell to consumer.

    Sales are great and they know if a dealer complains they can just tell them to shut up or you can leave and we will replace you in 30 seconds.

    Manufacturers in this position where they know what they make will sell no matter what tend to treat their sales channel like shit... srry to say.

    #343 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    I have no horse in this race, just to be clear.
    What do believe is I smell a rat, a big juicy rat that does not want to be sent down the legal drainpipe. Why? I have to believe J.D. is involved with "other" businesses that may not be quite on level surfaces either. Where else is this cash coming from? He goes down through the legal system and it ALL comes crashing down. If this were true and legit business failures, he would have been in court filing his B.K. for the LLC. Pay off the loudest, problem goes away, turn the attention to the other businesses. This is why MANY of you will see your refunds.
    It doesn't matter how or why or what B.S. excuse is next, J.D. was selling Alien, R & M, & LE machines he never had from the get go. This is a fact that cannot be continuously glossed over.
    Now where did all these discount machines that he did have to sell come from?
    I can give a little bit of a secret that distributors or operators can do to pocket cash. Lets say an OP buys 25 machines from a distributor and puts them all out on route. Oops, one is vandalized, Oops, one is stolen, Oops, one spontaneously combusted, Oops, one fell of the truck and they are now written off as losses. In reality, they are sold for cash, at a discount, and the Op just pocketed $16K in cash, tax free. You don't think that happens? So, J.D. gets himself a few Op's that wish to play ball and there are his sources. STERN can't do shit about that. I might have some enemies after posting this.

    No horse in this race either, just observations as well.

    Regarding where the money is coming from, you have very valid points and I agree with your suspicions as well. Unfortunately (and I can't blame them), there are several of the victims in this fiasco that already said they don't care where the money is coming from. Again, until they are paid back, I can't blame them for this. If I was out 10k or whatever, I would want my money back first and foremost as well and worry about the where after the fact. While he is paying the victims back, getting made whole is their only concern right now and that is to be expected. But yeah, this guy is scandalous as he has already proven with past actions, and I am sure the paybacks are funded from a shady source,

    As for the previously sold discounted machines, if that theory of them being Op "lost" machines (from whatever fashion they claim), the serial numbers would need to be used to recover those losses which means that those that purchased said machines would have either a reported stolen, or reported whatever machine. While these might not be listed in a DOJ database as a stolen serialized item (depending on how it was reported), they most likely would be listed with whatever insurance company paid out the initial loss. But then, most insurance companies would require a police report or fire report in order to complete the claim. So again, there should be some trace of the serial numbers if that was the actual scenario. Easy enough to check I suppose, but I think that might be a stretch of a scenario. The machine sources are speculative at this point due to the purchasers not wanting (at least publicly) to go down that rabbit hole. I suppose I can't blame them there either. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. If I paid 8k for a pin, I might want to live in the world where I think everything is fine with it as well. If I was to find out that I had a stolen game, I would do the right thing, but I would be extremely upset over it. Not knowing may be better for some.

    #344 3 years ago
    Quoted from Calfdemon:

    If I was to find out that I had a stolen game, I would do the right thing, but I would be extremely upset over it.

    And what would that be, exactly? I'm curious.

    This premise that these games were stolen is ludicrous. The last game I purchased from JD/ASOA (JP2 Premium) on 12/3/19 was sent directly from Stern!

    I understand that you and everyone else with "no horse in this race" would love to solve this puzzle, but I'm afraid none of us are close enough to the action to know what happened.

    No matter what the price, if I suspected something was stolen, I would have NOTHING to do with the transaction. Even if the game were "free"!

    IMG_0589 (resized).jpegIMG_0589 (resized).jpeg
    #345 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    And what would that be, exactly? I'm curious.
    This premise that these games were stolen is ludicrous. The last game I purchased from JD/ASOA (JP2 Premium) on 12/3/19 was sent directly from Stern!

    As I said.... if I was an authorized dealer I would be very curious to ask how this is allowed to happen? (Of course doing that will probably get them on the shit list so they wont.)

    You can buy games direct at dealer cost or less if you arent authorized to??

    Thats good news... I will call them and buy a few for myself so i can flip them.

    Maybe everyone on pinside should call and ask how exactly they can buy games super cheap direct since it seems so easy to do.

    20
    #346 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Hopefully he pays everybody back and moves on to some other grift far away from our beloved hobby.

    Yes, I'm hopeful for that too. But I'm pessimistic about complete restitution.

    When a scammer gets caught like this there is always a flurry of initial activity. Humble apologies gushingly out, some money is paid and heart felt promises are given. Excuses like Covid are given in between contrition and tears.

    It's at this point that the squeaky wheels get the oil so you better wise up and not act cavalier.

    But a month or two later short payments usually begin to trickle in with a new round of excuses and more promises. And after that the ghosting begins.

    I agree with the OP. As much as the curiosity is killing me, lets leave the distributors and witch hunts out of this. The focus needs to be on Jonathan Demare.

    #347 3 years ago
    Quoted from mrclean:

    [quoted image]

    Kinda funny to me because my AKA is Slimbo. They'd have to have a grey haired version for me and it would be pretty close.

    #348 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    And what would that be, exactly? I'm curious.

    You need to check your moral compass if you even have to ask that question. If I was to find out that a game I had was stolen, I would make sure it was returned to the rightful owner. I would then do what I could to recover my losses. Obviously, if I had any suspicion the game was stolen in the first place, I would take no part in the purchase.

    Why did you feel the need to ask that question? Do you have a different answer?

    -1
    #349 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    No matter what the price, if I suspected something was stolen, I would have NOTHING to do with the transaction. Even if the game were "free"![quoted image]

    Quoted from Calfdemon:

    You need to check your moral compass if you even have to ask that question. If I was to find out that a game I had was stolen, I would make sure it was returned to the rightful owner. I would then do what I could to recover my losses. Obviously, if I had any suspicion the game was stolen in the first place, I would take no part in the purchase.
    Why did you feel the need to ask that question? Do you have a different answer?

    You evidently have limited reading capacity OR are trying to create drama where none exists. I stated my position very clearly. Stop trolling.

    #350 3 years ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    As I said.... if I was an authorized dealer I would be very curious to ask how this is allowed to happen? (Of course doing that will probably get them on the shit list so they wont.)
    You can buy games direct at dealer cost or less if you arent authorized to??
    Thats good news... I will call them and buy a few for myself so i can flip them.
    Maybe everyone on pinside should call and ask how exactly they can buy games super cheap direct since it seems so easy to do.

    I don't see why people seem obsessed with the idea that he "can buy these games super cheap direct". If he could do that why would he bother with selling games that he never delivered or selling an LE and delivering a different game type non-sense? There are a ton of people on this site who put a deposit with a distributor then sell the game to someone else when it is delivered or take delivery and sell it NIB or trade a NIB game for another game. This doesn't mean that the original authorized distributor has done anything nefarious.

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