(Topic ID: 288096)

Part 2 - Beware of Jonathan Demare / ASOA

By Mr68

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Ericpinballfan
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    There are 682 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 14.
    -3
    #251 3 years ago
    Quoted from captainadam_21:

    Where in the world is all this money coming from he's paying people back with?!

    He hit the lotto? Got a loan from his parents?

    Who the F cares?

    People are getting paid back.

    To be clear, 95% of his business is in the ROUTE side, NOT sales

    So since Florida has been open he is getting back on his feet again.

    I’m sure that makes NO sense to people that live outside Florida and Texas but yes it’s real!!!!

    #252 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    I agree, always negotiate first and thoroughly. Collect what you can until the well runs dry. Filing a lawsuit should be a last resort only. But failing that, at what point do you stand up for yourself and say enough.
    I’m proud of my fellow plaintiffs and our legal judgment against Jpop. We were instrumental in forcing Deeproot's hand in the Goodwill agreements that others benefit from. Some people think I'm a dope for that.
    Will I ever collect a penny from Jpop? Highly unlikely. And I will add it to my file of other uncollected judgments and continue to purse him. I’m one of those guys that will throw good money after bad rather than have a reputation of all talk and no action.

    Good for you Kim. I hope you get him. Maybe one of these days John will face the music. I feel karma will be a bitch

    But I’m one of those guys that would rather keep his money and not keep throwing good money after bad

    GL

    #253 3 years ago

    Friends and family can be reversed by paypal if the source funds were bad. I.e stolen or fake accounts.

    38
    #254 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    To be clear, 95% of his business is in the ROUTE side, NOT sales
    So since Florida has been open he is getting back on his feet again.
    I’m sure that makes NO sense to people that live outside Florida and Texas but yes it’s real!!!!

    Florida has been "open" during almost the entire pandemic, cause, ya know, FLorida.

    Give the COVID excuse a rest. It's 100 percent bullshit. The scammy behavior predates COVID by at least two years, it's documented.

    #255 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I like JJ but had to quit using him when they jacked up the price on BM66 and couldn’t get one from them because of selling multiples to flippers like Kaneda

    Ouch.

    #256 3 years ago

    I love JJ and I know he’s cleaned out some of that crap now

    But I have two people now that with the amount of games I buy I know I can at least get one

    Highly recommend Melissa and Cointaker

    And Classic Game rooms out of Georgia is great too!!!

    #257 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I’m sure that makes NO sense to people that live outside Florida and Texas but yes it’s real!!!!

    And Alaska. We never went down the way the way the rest of the world seems to have. Very few mask up too.

    #258 3 years ago
    Quoted from thechakapakuni:

    This is like watching a bad 80’s horror movie.

    Is it?

    #259 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    And Alaska. We never went down the way the way the rest of the world seems to have. Very few mask up too.

    Somebody said Alaska was warmer than we had it the past two days

    Back to a balmy 45 degrees with more snow tonight!

    #260 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    PayPal friends & family

    It can be pulled back. PayPal is trying that with me right now. They attempt to charge any funding source the account has ever used.

    #261 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I love JJ and I know he’s cleaned out some of that crap now
    But I have two people now that with the amount of games I buy I know I can at least get one
    Highly recommend Melissa and Cointaker
    And Classic Game rooms out of Georgia is great too!!!

    I've bought from both of these. My first NIB pin came from Jason at Classic Game Rooms. Both are great, stand-up people. Jason is a great one to go to if you think that no distributor could possibly still have any of <insert game or topper name here> left in stock...

    #262 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Somebody said Alaska was warmer than we had it the past two days
    Back to a balmy 45 degrees with more snow tonight!

    It was in the twenties. When it warms up we get hammered with snow usually.

    #263 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    It can be pulled back. PayPal is trying that with me right now. They attempt to charge any funding source the account has ever used.

    ok. So how many days elapsed between you receiving the payment and PP trying to pull it back? Curious.

    #264 3 years ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    It can be pulled back. PayPal is trying that with me right now. They attempt to charge any funding source the account has ever used.

    Yes - if that guy funded the paypal payment with a credit card or shorted his bank with bad checks or deposits it will wind it's way back and the payee has the potential to be on the hook for any bad funds.

    And then again what happens next month - why would you believe this guy would continue to pay when he's bilked some people for 1-2 years and paid nothing back from what he took from them.

    #265 3 years ago

    The pedantic posts from the peanut gallery are adding very little value at this point.

    #266 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    ok. So how many days elapsed between you receiving the payment and PP trying to pull it back? Curious.

    About 3.

    Quoted from NoQuarters:

    if that guy funded the paypal payment with a credit card or shorted his bank with bad checks or deposits it will wind it's way back and the payee has the potential to be on the hook for any bad funds.

    I won’t derail further than this but I sent a legit F&F payment, payee received and withdrew the money, then PayPal put the money back in my PP account and is trying to charge the payee’s cc. Then they went back retroactively and changed their records to make it appear I used a funding source other than my PP balance.

    Getting a straight answer out of them isn’t worth my effort. Lucky for me they don’t have access to any funding source on my end.

    #267 3 years ago

    Can someone explain to me a bit more about PayPal chargebacks?

    Is this for both friends and family as well as goods and services?
    Also, how long of a statute of limitations on it as far as amount of time that lapses from the time you receive a payment and how long they have to reverse the funds?

    Asking for my own edification to better understand how it works.

    10
    #268 3 years ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    Can someone explain to me a bit more about PayPal chargebacks?

    Start a different thread. This one is for ASOA bashing.

    #269 3 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Start a different thread. This one is for ASOA bashing.

    Thanks for your useful and constructive insight.
    Since it’s relative to issues pertaining to this thread, I stand by asking the question here.

    #270 3 years ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    Thanks for your useful and constructive insight.
    Since it’s relative to issues pertaining to this thread, I stand by asking the question here.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide#post-1813448

    88
    #271 3 years ago

    Just to clear things up, since snaroff has mentioned me a couple time in the previous thread and this one, we have sold one machine total EVER to Jonathan. It was a hobbit I believe and it was sold to him personally.

    There has never been another sale to him or his company since. The entire rick and morty situation caught both spooky and myself off guard. When snaroff called me out of the blue and told he had a game on order with me through asoa i was frustrated at the least. First off, all of our rick and Morty machines were numbered and accounted for. There were no Jonathan's or Asoa games on my list. To think someone was out there using my GOOD name to steal money from people was (is) sickening.

    We know 95% of our customers on a first name basis and have a very good reputation.

    I truly hope that the mention of my company in this thread has not made anyone think there was any association with asoa, as I can assure you there is none.

    #272 3 years ago

    Thank you.
    From what I gathered from that, funds can be disputed and reversed 45 days later and in some cases up to six months.
    Think I’m done accepting PayPal unless it’s something cheap or from someone I know.

    #273 3 years ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    Just to clear things up, since snaroff has mentioned me a couple time in the previous thread and this one, we have sold one machine total EVER to Jonathan. It was a hobbit I believe and it was sold to him personally.
    There has never been another sale to him or his company since. The entire rick and morty situation caught both spooky and myself off guard. When snaroff called me out of the blue and told he had a game on order with me through asoa i was frustrated at the least. First off, all of our rick and Morty machines were numbered and accounted for. There were no Jonathan's or Asoa games on my list. To think someone was out there using my GOOD name to steal money from people was (is) sickening.
    We know 95% of our customers on a first name basis and have a very good reputation.
    I truly hope that the mention of my company in this thread has not made anyone think there was any association with asoa, as I can assure you there is none.

    Nah, you guys are good. I've never heard one bad thing about you guys and if anything these threads have made you look good imo. Hoping to buy my first NIB from you guys at some point this year!

    10
    #274 3 years ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Nah, you guys are good. I've never heard one bad thing about you guys and if anything these threads have made you look good imo. Hoping to buy my first NIB from you guys at some point this year!

    I've read this thread and the other out of morbid curiosity. I just placed my first NIB order through Kingpin and if anything, I feel better than ever.

    #275 3 years ago

    Kingpin is solid and a very good guy. I have purchased games through him and he is 1st rate.

    Enjoy your first NIB game. You picked a good distro.

    #276 3 years ago

    Maybe he is able to pay people back because he moved on to a new scam that’s bigger than pinball.

    Blaming COVID is bullshit. He clearly tried to “sell” a machine that he was never going to get. There is no explanation other than fraud.

    He is probably paying out to his pinball victims because any legal action would likely uncover other scams that are still active.

    #277 3 years ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    Just to clear things up, since snaroff has mentioned me a couple time in the previous thread and this one, we have sold one machine total EVER to Jonathan. It was a hobbit I believe and it was sold to him personally.
    There has never been another sale to him or his company since. The entire rick and morty situation caught both spooky and myself off guard. When snaroff called me out of the blue and told he had a game on order with me through asoa i was frustrated at the least. First off, all of our rick and Morty machines were numbered and accounted for. There were no Jonathan's or Asoa games on my list. To think someone was out there using my GOOD name to steal money from people was (is) sickening.
    We know 95% of our customers on a first name basis and have a very good reputation.
    I truly hope that the mention of my company in this thread has not made anyone think there was any association with asoa, as I can assure you there is none.

    Chris, you and Kayte @ Spooky were incredibly helpful and forthcoming.

    15
    #278 3 years ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    Just to clear things up, since snaroff has mentioned me a couple time in the previous thread and this one, we have sold one machine total EVER to Jonathan. It was a hobbit I believe and it was sold to him personally.
    There has never been another sale to him or his company since. The entire rick and morty situation caught both spooky and myself off guard. When snaroff called me out of the blue and told he had a game on order with me through asoa i was frustrated at the least. First off, all of our rick and Morty machines were numbered and accounted for. There were no Jonathan's or Asoa games on my list. To think someone was out there using my GOOD name to steal money from people was (is) sickening.
    We know 95% of our customers on a first name basis and have a very good reputation.
    I truly hope that the mention of my company in this thread has not made anyone think there was any association with asoa, as I can assure you there is none.

    This is just ONE example of Jonathan lying to customers to further his thefts and fraud. This is NOT bad business... this is making false statements in furtherance of committing criminal fraud.

    Anyone that thinks that this was just "bad business" isn't looking at the total picture and acts committed to continue to rip people off.

    #279 3 years ago

    Nevermind.

    #280 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Quite an about face here. You went from “I’m gonna let the cat out of the bag!!!” To “hey everybody back off this guy is cool!”
    Charles Ponzi paid back plenty of people, by the way, until the day his scam completely collapsed. Get back to us after the vaunted “13 month plan” is complete and everybody is paid back in full.

    I believe they call it Schrödinger's cat in the bag.

    #281 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I'm his biggest CREDITOR.

    iceman44 - You've mentioned several times you think you're his biggest creditor. To put the amount he needs to settle this in perspective, how many games does he owe you? A couple, a dozen, more? I could see a payment plan for a handful of games, but I recall Jpop screwed Cointaker on something like 25 machines alone so wondering if it's on the same scale of deception.

    #282 3 years ago
    Quoted from Strohz:

    iceman44 - You've mentioned several times you think you're his biggest creditor. To put the amount he needs to settle this in perspective, how many games does he owe you? A couple, a dozen, more? I could see a payment plan for a handful of games, but I recall Jpop screwed Cointaker on something like 25 machines alone so wondering if it's on the same scale of deception.

    Everything is bigger in Texas. If you are gonna get scammed, you gotta go all in!!!!

    14
    #283 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Highly recommend Melissa and Cointaker

    And Trent at Tilt. He'll sell you a game at a fair price AND kick your ass at any game for free.

    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    Just to clear things up, since snaroff has mentioned me a couple time in the previous thread and this one, we have sold one machine total EVER to Jonathan. It was a hobbit I believe and it was sold to him personally.
    There has never been another sale to him or his company since. The entire rick and morty situation caught both spooky and myself off guard. When snaroff called me out of the blue and told he had a game on order with me through asoa i was frustrated at the least. First off, all of our rick and Morty machines were numbered and accounted for. There were no Jonathan's or Asoa games on my list. To think someone was out there using my GOOD name to steal money from people was (is) sickening.
    We know 95% of our customers on a first name basis and have a very good reputation.
    I truly hope that the mention of my company in this thread has not made anyone think there was any association with asoa, as I can assure you there is none.

    Kingpin is also great, and I can't wait to get back to TPF to get some more of their awesome free full-color JJP rulesheets they hand out. So nice, you can actually frame them.

    #284 3 years ago
    Quoted from Strohz:

    iceman44 - You've mentioned several times you think you're his biggest creditor. To put the amount he needs to settle this in perspective, how many games does he owe you? A couple, a dozen, more? I could see a payment plan for a handful of games, but I recall Jpop screwed Cointaker on something like 25 machines alone so wondering if it's on the same scale of deception.

    This matters why?

    #285 3 years ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    Thank you.
    From what I gathered from that, funds can be disputed and reversed 45 days later and in some cases up to six months.
    Think I’m done accepting PayPal unless it’s something cheap or from someone I know.

    Yeah, that or PP just decides to freeze your funds for "review". I've moved to only accepting bank wire transfers for big pin sales and I don't see much downside if you're the seller. Buyer pays ~$20, the money is sent and received within the hour and it isn't going anywhere after that. Sold a TOM and TRON to Pinsiders for $6k+ each that way.

    #286 3 years ago
    Quoted from Strohz:

    iceman44 - You've mentioned several times you think you're his biggest creditor. To put the amount he needs to settle this in perspective, how many games does he owe you? A couple, a dozen, more? I could see a payment plan for a handful of games, but I recall Jpop screwed Cointaker on something like 25 machines alone so wondering if it's on the same scale of deception.

    Yeah Jpop did a number on Cointaker. So did Heighway.

    I received 6 pins I believe and 4 were paid for and undelivered.

    Two JJP games while a distributor and TBL and then a Stern STHLE in Jan of last year? So I bought it from Zach

    Total equates to about $45k roughly. I’m thinking no one else is close?

    I’m confident Jonathan will make good and you can judge me as a stupid idiot I don’t care . I’ve been around long enough

    I was down $194k in my trading account today. I only say that to put in perspective on how I look at it

    That said, I expect him to come through and happy that others are receiving payments

    My agreement with him is deferred and that’s how I wanted it

    #287 3 years ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Jonathan did seem to have some sort of insider information. How??

    Easy. He didn’t have any inside information. Just full of shit and good at convincing people. That’s how he got people to pay for nonexistent Aliens.

    #288 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Easy. He wasn’t. Just full of shit and good at convincing people. That’s how he got people to pay for nonexistent Aliens.

    That’s not true Erik. Just saying. I know for a fact but I realize the mob will never believe it

    Fwiw, I bought an Alien LE from Wayne in Australia last batch. Jonathan agreed I should do that and never solicited $$ from me for the “new game”

    #289 3 years ago

    From what I gathered from that, funds can be disputed and reversed 45 days later and in some cases up to six months.
    Think I’m done accepting PayPal unless it’s something cheap or from someone I know.

    Just my brief Pay Pal experience-for peoples perspective and different experiences:
    Had some charge back deal happen,my P Pal was tied to my US Bank account which they dipped there hands into IIRC.Got it squared-Closed all P Pal stuff I had going for this hobby-which was the only reason I ever got it in the first place.Everyone 10 yrs. ago was all touting P Pal - the most perfect transaction ever,ohh ahh bow to P Pal.........Ah Pffft I say now.
    I use Visa,Mastercard and have bank wired money direct once-and cash in person works great for me ever since.

    Glad to see Kim step in and moderate/keep this moving forward and civil- His intentions are pure and honest....Even for a nickname like Mr. 68 Great guy who has seen some BS in this hobby in the last...what 15-20 + yrs

    #290 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    That’s not true Erik. Just saying. I know for a fact but I realize the mob will never believe it

    The OP of the last thread paid Jonathan for Alien if I remember correctly back in what? 2019? Is that what started the rumors of CGC making it in 2019-2020?

    #291 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    The OP of the last thread paid Jonathan for Alien if I remember correctly back in what? 2019? Is that what started the rumors of CGC making it in 2019-2020?

    No. It was well before then. I do know he took some Alien deposits based based on what was believed at the time and not made up by him. I know this from others involved. The Alien pin was meant to come much sooner. They said it themselves

    And I had code changes and saw an iteration of today’s version a long while back.

    Don’t recall exactly, it all blurs together and seems like yesterday when we were all whining about the Wozecle delays.

    #292 3 years ago

    If you look at Sterns website they have distributors (to sell into locations) and dealers ( to sell to consumer)....

    People think they are the same thing but they arent.

    I would imagine he got into a big distributor and was likely buying games meant for location only.

    I would also assume they are priced cheaper than the discounts that dealers get which is why there was some margin to work with there.

    #293 3 years ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    If you look at Sterns website they have distributors (to sell into locations) and dealers ( to sell to consumer)....
    People think they are the same thing but they arent.
    I would imagine he got into a big distributor and was likely buying games meant for location only.
    I would also assume they are priced cheaper than the discounts that dealers get which is why there was some margin to work with there.

    His amusement centers and routes were growing and he added pinball to them. That’s how he got involved I believe. JJP wanted to put games in those locations he had. Common sense

    #294 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I think that’s part of it. And why and how he became a JJP distributor. They won’t chime in however.
    His amusement centers and routes were growing and he added pinball to them. That’s how he got involved I believe. JJP wanted to put games in those locations he had

    Well yah likely, and I mentioned them about 100 posts ago.

    JJP etc wont chime in because they likely knew it was happening and chose to do nothing about it.

    Its a bad look when your distribs are selling out of their lane and cuttting the heads off your dealers in the process.

    I feel as bad for them (the dealers) as anyone who lost money since all those sales and customers were taken off their books.

    #295 3 years ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Evaporate? My money was sent via PayPal friends & family, which unlike products/services ISN"T insured. The funds can't be pulled back. And if somehow I am wrong, which I doubt, I will deal with it when that unlikely event occurs.

    Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Funds can still be pulled back via a credit card dispute/chargeback regardless of how the payment was categorized in Paypal.

    #296 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Easy. He didn’t have any inside information. Just full of shit and good at convincing people. That’s how he got people to pay for nonexistent Aliens.

    Precisely.

    The ASOA "Alien Remake" that Ice was shilling almost two years ago and was literally betting would be out in a matter of months had NOTHING to do with the Italian Alien remake that may one day see the light of day. It was almost certainly a complete fabrication from the mind of ASOA.

    I don't see how anybody can read this testimony and think anything different:

    Bill said:

    "The reason I gave him so much money and trusted him was because he had sold me a couple of pinball machines at a good discount prior to his convincing me to pay him in full for an Alien Remake, for which I paid him on 4/17/2019"

    "In March [2019] he told me that he had a couple of Alien remakes in his “warehouse” and that he was involved with the testing and development phase of the pin. In April [2019] he told me that Alien would be shipped within 30 to 60 days so I sent him the money."

    Ice - or anybody else who was sold this imaginary 2019 Alien - could possibly help clear up some of these details. For starters, was ASOA telling everybody these were gonna built in Italy? Was he telling people CGC was going to produce them, as was the popular rumor at the time? Did he provide any photos or any other actual evidence that anything was doing on the Alien Remake front back in March, 2019?

    #297 3 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    No. It was well before then. I do know he took some Alien deposits based based on what was believed at the time and not made up by him.

    Well that’s good. I’m glad he believed that aliens were right around the corner even though everyone else on earth knew they weren’t. That makes thinks all better. Come on man. You think pinball brothers were cool with some no name, non-distributor was taking deposits for a game they didn’t even announce yet? Doubtful.

    #298 3 years ago

    Bill said:
    "The reason I gave him so much money and trusted him was because he had sold me a couple of pinball machines at a good discount prior to his convincing me to pay him in full for an Alien Remake, for which I paid him on 4/17/2019"
    "In March [2019] he told me that he had a couple of Alien remakes in his “warehouse” and that he was involved with the testing and development phase of the pin. In April [2019] he told me that Alien would be shipped within 30 to 60 days so I sent him the money.”

    It’s cool though. I’m sure Jonathan believed the game was coming soon. No worries.

    #299 3 years ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    Just to clear things up, since snaroff has mentioned me a couple time in the previous thread and this one, we have sold one machine total EVER to Jonathan. It was a hobbit I believe and it was sold to him personally.
    There has never been another sale to him or his company since. The entire rick and morty situation caught both spooky and myself off guard. When snaroff called me out of the blue and told he had a game on order with me through asoa i was frustrated at the least. First off, all of our rick and Morty machines were numbered and accounted for. There were no Jonathan's or Asoa games on my list. To think someone was out there using my GOOD name to steal money from people was (is) sickening.
    We know 95% of our customers on a first name basis and have a very good reputation.
    I truly hope that the mention of my company in this thread has not made anyone think there was any association with asoa, as I can assure you there is none.

    I bought my R&M BSE from Chris at King Pin Games and it was a flawless and easy transaction! King Pin Games ROCKS!

    It is good to buy a WISCONSIN game from a WISCONSIN dealer!

    #300 3 years ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Funds can still be pulled back via a credit card dispute/chargeback regardless of how the payment was categorized in Paypal.

    Got it. Well that's how I was paid. I only use PP for fairly small transactions. I spoke to JD today...I'm confident the funds won't be "pulled back". If I'm wrong, I'm back to where I was and will post accordingly.

    There are 682 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 14.

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