(Topic ID: 288096)

Part 2 - Beware of Jonathan Demare / ASOA

By Mr68

11 months ago


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    There are 661 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 14.
    #101 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    I was trusting what others were telling me and it wasn't just Jonathan.

    That's exactly what I mean. The "others."

    #102 11 months ago

    Unfortunately this seems too simple. Too many people wanting to protect this guy, its one of the oddest things ive ever seen.

    37
    #103 11 months ago

    I read a book about Stockholm Syndrome once.
    At first it was terrible, but by the end I really enjoyed it.

    -1
    #104 11 months ago

    protect this guy? 1/3 of the posters in thread version 1, wanted to hunt him down, but wouldn't survive a night in northwest miami-dade.

    i don't want to protect jonathan. the other thread got nuts. robin didn't shut it down. bill did. and that's his choice.

    someone driving a white F150 is probably getting eggs thrown at him down in miami. but hey....miami. could just be the morning drive.

    one little thing nags me: if ASOA was out to steal money, why didn't he declare bankruptcy in March, and write all of those people off?

    he's not j-pop pulling a "magic girl". who people have given a pass. i was a stamp away from getting magic girl...until the deal changed...by the hour.

    i read that he got a lot of slack about selling pre-orders for Aliens. which is being made: https://www.pinballbrothers.com/alien/

    seriously, i'd like to know the ASOA advantage of paying back vs. bankrupt and done. you now, like some florida coin-op vendors who are on "Business Name", version 9.

    jonathan / ASOA definitely got over his/their head.

    but it's weird to have 100s of successful transactions, for the sole goal of going full Ponzi, as he knew in 2017, that 2020 was the year of the pandemic.

    and i know someone will throw up a wiki link that explains the mental psychoticness of a ponzi scheme pyramid minded sole.

    i still suggest that he needs to post to explain some of this. silence is deadly. and $5.00 is $5.00.

    19
    #105 11 months ago

    No way this Jonathan is not a scammer. See my previous post. He has no warehouse, is not a distributer, and had 3rd party deliver games. He lied numerous times about trivial details. No company would do this. Remember this appears to be a one man shop he is the business. Any and all of these are red flags.

    He paid off one person 2750whatever as it was cheap to do so and he was barking the loudest. The thing that got him caught was Pinside. He got away with it for so long as every buyer was isolated and did not know of others or how to sound the alarm as Jonathan dragged them along.

    I bet he pays a few to buy time, a trickle payment for a few. Guys like this have no assets. House double, triple mortgaged. Money taken out of the business as soon as possible every month. No reinvestment in materials or other assets to seize.

    maybe he took PPE loan or has other scams going he doesn't want exposed like someone else said.

    I have no idea what Iceman is getting at. This sounds like SkitB and Dutch all over again with support from random pinsiders who are delusional.

    #106 11 months ago
    Quoted from youdontknowme:

    one little thing nags me: if ASOA was out to steal money, why didn't he declare bankruptcy in March, and write all of those people off?

    Quoted from youdontknowme:

    but it's weird to have 100s of successful transactions, for the sole goal of going full Ponzi, as he knew in 2017, that 2020 was the year of the pandemic.

    More often than not, these people begin with honorable intentions. But instead of asking for help or facing the hard truth when things go to shit, they begin to cheat. It usually begins in small ways that they believe they can quickly recover from and it snowballs from there.
    One of the reasons they are so convincing to others is because they have fooled themselves into believing their own lies.

    10
    #107 11 months ago
    Quoted from jandrea95:

    Unfortunately this seems too simple. Too many people wanting to protect this guy, its one of the oddest things ive ever seen.

    Seems pretty straight forward to me. The people he owes money to want to see him do well so he can pay them back all or a portion of what he owes them. If he goes to jail he can’t pay anyone back, if he goes into bankruptcy his motivation to pay people back may be significantly reduced. Not sure where his source of funds to pay people back come from at this juncture, not from selling pins it would seem.

    #108 11 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Seems pretty straight forward to me. The people he owes money to want to see him do well so he can pay them back all or a portion of what he owes them. If he goes to jail he can’t pay anyone back, if he goes into bankruptcy his motivation to pay people back may be significantly reduced.

    So get the money out of him THEN contact the DOJ. That sounds pretty simple to me and is what should happen.

    #109 11 months ago
    Quoted from hockeymag8:

    I hope this is the start of a turn around for this Johnathan guy. Coins are very precious to all of us and you cannot treat people and their coins like the many stories we have read. Normally these stories do not turn out well - but man would this be cool if everyone was made whole and Johnathan turned out to be a great and trusted person to work with down the road.
    Congrats snaroff and here's hoping to similar fortunes to the rest of you affected!

    Thanks, I appreciate that. To be honest, the aggravation/humiliation/bickering with JD was worse than the coin (for me).

    Stress is unhealthy, and this transaction was stress filled. When I corresponded with Spooky/Kingpin (in May 2020), and they couldn't "find" my game, it was really shocking. As far as R&M goes, if you don't have a game #, you don't have a game. I had no game #. I felt like a sucker.

    As I said 3 days ago (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804):

    "Jonathan Demare (aka ASOA on Pinside) had 20 glowing Pinside reviews from 1/17/18-5/16/19. I was an ASOA customer and purchased 4 Stern machines (IMDN Premium, Beatles Gold, Munsters Pro, & JP Premium). All fairly smooth transactions. He was loved and trusted on the local Florida Pinball site "The Village"."

    I'm thankful for the AIQ Pro delivered on 10/13 and for the remaining cash delivered today, 2/16. Thank you, JD/ASOA. I respect you are making progress on making your customers whole. While it doesn't erase the aggravation/humiliation/bickering, it's progress and I'm hopeful you will have better days ahead.

    Another relevant financial impact related to my failed Rick & Morty transaction: When I finally landed a Rick and Morty locally (on 11/20/20), I had to "pay up" ~$2,000! Fortunately, I LOVE the game and like supporting Spooky (good people).

    #110 11 months ago

    Look team internet...this was a hard situation.

    I am not saying I did everything right but I challenge anyone who says those of us who have been burned did anything wrong. What you don't see are the months of scheming, planning, talking to lawyers, researching DOJ complaints, talking to FL collection attorney's, etc. that we all did.

    Once you are inside of a big money possible con you kind of become a deer in the headlights. You don't know what is true or false. You worry about the impact to others and you even wonder if the things you perceive as lies are sometimes founded in truth. It is super easy to sit behind those keys and imagine what you would do...but you don't really know what you would do until it happens.

    At the end of the day I was just issued a partial payment from ASOA because of these threads. I spoke with Jonathan on the phone and made it very clear that the portion of what he owes me is not enough. I expect to continue to receive the scheduled payments as promised and furthermore expect that EVERYONE else receives their payments as well. I told him that if I did not see progress in that direction I would be splitting this money amongst the other outstanding liabilities as I see fit and attacking him with every resource I can muster. Again, now that this is public I have less concern of protecting the anonymity of the innocent.

    Lastly I will say, although complete opinion, it is possible that a small business man got in too deep too fast and was hugely impacted by the pandemic. I waffle back and forth as to my own belief here, but if you look at some of the facts he actually could have been running a reputable business which was crippled by an uncontrollable situation. If he makes everyone whole and repairs the damage caused, this would actually be one of the more impressive stories of pinball corruption that I've read about.

    I've heard of people who are still waiting for their JPoP machines or whatever other scam out there. At least Jonathan seems to be attempting to recover.

    #111 11 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Seems pretty straight forward to me. The people he owes money to want to see him do well so he can pay them back all or a portion of what he owes them. If he goes to jail he can’t pay anyone back, if he goes into bankruptcy his motivation to pay people back may be significantly reduced. Not sure where his source of funds to pay people back come from at this juncture, not from selling pins it would seem.

    You’re most likely correct, like you I’m just curious where the new money comes from to pay folks back.

    Feels like the dude just kicks the can down the road.

    18
    #112 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Lastly I will say, although complete opinion, it is possible that a small business man got in too deep too fast and was hugely impacted by the pandemic. I waffle back and forth as to my own belief here, but if you look at some of the facts he actually could have been running a reputable business which was crippled by an uncontrollable situation.

    My run in with this dickhead was something like two years ago and he had his dancing shoes on then... I dont recall any pandemic then.

    People ignored all the signs and warnings because they were getting things on the cheap.

    End of day this about greed... both him and the buyers undercutting the official dealers to save a few bucks.

    Sorry people had issues but you know when things are too good to be true (like games at dealer cost to end users) they probably are. blah blah.

    (cue the down votes for being honest)

    #113 11 months ago
    Quoted from nate1981s:

    He has no warehouse, is not a distributer, and had 3rd party deliver games.

    How do you know any of this?

    Quoted from nate1981s:

    He lied numerous times about trivial details. No company would do this.

    Factual history shows MANY situations where small companies boldly lied to better their stance and ultimately became Atari, Apple or Microsoft. The world is business is ultra nuanced and you can't just say there is one clear way to grow.

    As I've said in other posts, I intend to help everyone else get back to even. I'm not defending anything he has done. The data I have does not indicate parking lot deals, million dollar homes or Ponzi schemes. I have speculated all of those things over the past 15 months but my data has never shown it. As of today, the data indicates a rapid attempt to right his wrongs.

    We will see how this plays out. I hold true to my word that I am in this for the group and not myself. I will help everyone who has an outstanding liability get their money back.

    #114 11 months ago

    Can money obtained through theft be discharged via bankruptcy?

    #115 11 months ago

    It amazes me how many people on this site just keep reading the same stuff over and over again and it's not penetrating.

    Bankruptcy does not help a person when they have committed fraud. If anything, it might actually help those harmed to collect money. If he files for bankruptcy, regular creditors can no longer go after him so he doesn't have to pay anything to anybody until his case is done. This means he doesn't have to pay his bills. This would mean that he would now have extra money to pay the important people... namely the people who are going after him for fraud.

    Forget about lawyers, when faced with either paying back those they defrauded or going to jail, most break down and cry like a baby. People like him would sell their mothers if necessary to avoid jail.

    #116 11 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    My run in with this dickhead was something like two years ago and he had his dancing shoes on then... I dont recall any pandemic then.
    People ignored all the signs and warnings because they were getting things on the cheap.
    End of day this about greed... both him and the buyers undercutting the official dealers to save a few bucks.
    Sorry people had issues but you know when things are too good to be true (like games at dealer cost to end users) they probably are. blah blah.
    (cue the down votes for being honest)

    Yeah, my original dealings were pre-pandemic. I believe the pandemic is an easy cover but chances are things had hopped off the rails before hand.

    At the end of the day, if he can square everyone up and get back to running a reputable business I see it as kind of a success story. Either that or this becomes the next Tiger King on Netflix. Either way we all benefit right?

    #117 11 months ago
    Quoted from jcg9998:

    Bankruptcy does not help a person when they have committed fraud.

    You have to prove fraud though right? My concern was always that my claims of fraud were "strawman" since I've never done anything more than talk to him on the phone. Yes, I believe I've been fed lies or "untruths" but I could never actually pin down fraud.

    At some point you don't want to be one of those people that calls the police because Popeye's ran out of chicken sandwiches.

    #118 11 months ago

    http://www.myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/18A7753257FE439085256CC9004EC4F7

    File complaints with the Florida Attorney Generals office.

    #119 11 months ago

    Yes of course fraud would have to be proven. However, most people when faced with fraud charges would choose to pay rather than let a fraud case play out against them. 99 percent of the people who have the money to pay would rather pay than go to jail. In his case, he might have to sell his cars and house to pay. Still, the most likely scenario is that he would willingly do so rather than go to jail.

    #120 11 months ago
    Quoted from jcg9998:

    Yes of course fraud would have to be proven. However, most people when faced with fraud charges would choose to pay rather than let a fraud case play out against them. 99 percent of the people who have the money to pay would rather pay than go to jail. In his case, he might have to sell his cars and house to pay. Still, the most likely scenario is that he would willingly do so rather than go to jail.

    Yeah, the advice I've received from multiple attorney's was to continue pressing and not destroy the business. I guess I could have talked to a fifth attorney or studied law myself but I didn't have time.

    The power of the internet is amazing. The guy is currently trying to repair damage and refund people. I say let him do that. If he falters the collective internet can go ape on him and the business. In the meantime it doesn't seem productive to defame a person (not saying you were doing that) who seems to be making an attempt to recover. Time will tell. If he is going to pay people back month by month, the first month that doesn't happen is the first month of absolute never ending hell for him.

    Mark my words, I'll spend another 17k to absolutely destroy him if he truly is a scam artist.

    #121 11 months ago

    Keep in mind... there is no business to destroy... who is distributing games to him?

    #122 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Yeah, the advice I've received from multiple attorney's was to continue pressing and not destroy the business. I guess I could have talked to a fifth attorney or studied law myself but I didn't have time.
    The power of the internet is amazing. The guy is currently trying to repair damage and refund people. I say let him do that. If he falters the collective internet can go ape on him and the business. In the meantime it doesn't seem productive to defame a person (not saying you were doing that) who seems to be making an attempt to recover. Time will tell. If he is going to pay people back month by month, the first month that doesn't happen is the first month of absolute never ending hell for him.
    Mark my words, I'll spend another 17k to absolutely destroy him if he truly is a scam artist.

    Defame him??? The guy stole money from people and lied, I think he did it to himself.

    36
    #123 11 months ago

    Please stop using Covid as an excuse for this guy. There are multiple thousands of business and people that have gone broke because of Covid. Is that an excuse to steal or con people? Based on testimony in these Pinside threads, his actions have been egregious and intentional. He's using Covid as a distration.

    #124 11 months ago

    Yep, why anymore would make excuses for this guy is beyond my understanding. The criminal/con behavior is clearly documented WAY before covid. Either you are a good human being and wouldn't cheat/steal from others or you're a POS and have no problem lying, deceiving, and stealing from others. Pretty clear this guy is exactly who everyone says he is.

    #125 11 months ago
    Quoted from youdontknowme:

    protect this guy? 1/3 of the posters in thread version 1, wanted to hunt him down, but wouldn't survive a night in northwest miami-dade.
    i don't want to protect jonathan. the other thread got nuts. robin didn't shut it down. bill did. and that's his choice.
    someone driving a white F150 is probably getting eggs thrown at him down in miami. but hey....miami. could just be the morning drive.
    one little thing nags me: if ASOA was out to steal money, why didn't he declare bankruptcy in March, and write all of those people off?
    he's not j-pop pulling a "magic girl". who people have given a pass. i was a stamp away from getting magic girl...until the deal changed...by the hour.
    i read that he got a lot of slack about selling pre-orders for Aliens. which is being made: https://www.pinballbrothers.com/alien/
    seriously, i'd like to know the ASOA advantage of paying back vs. bankrupt and done. you now, like some florida coin-op vendors who are on "Business Name", version 9.
    jonathan / ASOA definitely got over his/their head.
    but it's weird to have 100s of successful transactions, for the sole goal of going full Ponzi, as he knew in 2017, that 2020 was the year of the pandemic.
    and i know someone will throw up a wiki link that explains the mental psychoticness of a ponzi scheme pyramid minded sole.
    i still suggest that he needs to post to explain some of this. silence is deadly. and $5.00 is $5.00.

    UZI
    youdontknowme

    Pinside member
    US H3ll, FL
    8y 36,050 161 5 7
    jonathan, you better fix this sh!t...i'll let the whole cat out of this bag about your main source of machines, at least back in 2018.
    seriously, i've spoken with you in person. and on the phone. but there's way too much going on here to ignore.
    make a fake account for pinside. speak up. be heard.

    When do we get the details since this isn’t a fraud situation like you claim?

    #126 11 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Isn’t today the day the big “How I’m gonna pay you all back” email is supposed to drop? Hope someone posts it.

    Sounds like crickets so far on that front...

    ASOA Lies... and he was a crap Pinsider too (resized).jpg

    #127 11 months ago

    2020 was definitely a year filled with con artist shenanigans.

    He wasn't a victim of the pandemic, he was one of many people who used it as a excuse and/or as a way to take advantage of others for a buck.

    18
    #128 11 months ago

    As someone completly on the outside looking in, this whole thing just smells so fishy. Like people getting "too good to be true" deals on new games, and then no one wants the source out of the bag, even the people owed money. Just sounds very off. Maybe I have it all wrong, but that is what it looks like.

    19
    #129 11 months ago

    As the OP of the original thread, here is an update.

    As far as I can verify, each of those to whom Jonathan owes money has gotten an official agreement from Jonathan / ASOA detailing a payment plan that will commence on the 19th of the month and recur until their respective debts are paid in full. Jonathan has made initial payments to some of us already, based on the agreements negotiated during conversations with each of us. Some folks like snaroff have been settled completely.

    There is one person whose pin arrived broken and was returned and the situation is a little convoluted. Jonathan has promised to negotiate a mutually agreeable settlement with this person tomorrow.

    I’ve gotten confirmation from some, others would like to stay uninvolved with this series of posts and me, and I respect their privacy.

    If you are one of the people to whom he owes money and feel that he has not done what I have outlined above, please reach out to me. I will make sure that Jonathan clears his debt with each of us.

    I will update as necessary.

    Thank you
    Bill Clement

    10
    #130 11 months ago
    Quoted from jcg9998:

    Keep in mind... there is no business to destroy... who is distributing games to him?

    Yeah, that is what I want to know.

    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Sounds like crickets so far on that front...
    [quoted image]

    I actually got a letter today and some of my refund to my PayPal account. I have my doubts but thanks to crwjumper this is a step in the right direction.

    I honestly didn't think posting on Pinside would do anything but it seems to have done A LOT. I honestly appreciate the good people in this hobby who try to keep things on the up-and-up. It is really nice that a lot of people who don't have skin in this game are standing up for the ones that do. All I have been saying is that we have evidence things are moving...we can douse the torches and wait for the next payment, then the next payment, etc. I am not defending him at all...just using facts I have behind my money to recommend a direction which might benefit all of his outstanding liabilities.

    10
    #131 11 months ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    As the OP of the original thread, here is an update.
    As far as I can verify, each of those to whom Jonathan owes money has gotten an official agreement from Jonathan / ASOA detailing a payment plan that will commence on the 19th of the month and recur until their respective debts are paid in full. Jonathan has made initial payments to some of us already, based on the agreements negotiated during conversations with each of us. Some folks like snaroff have been settled completely.
    There is one person whose pin arrived broken and was returned and the situation is a little convoluted. Jonathan has promised to negotiate a mutually agreeable settlement with this person tomorrow.
    I’ve gotten confirmation from some, others would like to stay uninvolved with this series of posts and me, and I respect their privacy.
    If you are one of the people to whom he owes money and feel that he has not done what I have outlined above, please reach out to me. I will make sure that Jonathan clears his debt with each of us.
    I will update as necessary.
    Thank you
    Bill Clement

    Awesome, you rock Bill! TY for stepping out and trying to help all of us. You have all my contact info in Pinside and email if you need anything.

    #132 11 months ago

    Organized fraud is definitely there. How? It's the lies and misrepresentations in order to obtain money that were taken for a said purchase and used/directed somewhere else. Anytime fake claims or representations (you are buying something that doesn't exist, fake tracking numbers, fake purchase orders to show product that doesn't exist, etc.) are made to illicit money or put off someone that should be getting their item/money back, that's an overt act. Two or more transactions like this and the charge goes up to the "organized" Fraud level.

    #133 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Yeah, that is what I want to know.

    I actually got a letter today and some of my refund to my PayPal account. I have my doubts but thanks to crwjumper this is a step in the right direction.
    I honestly didn't think posting on Pinside would do anything but it seems to have done A LOT. I honestly appreciate the good people in this hobby who try to keep things on the up-and-up. It is really nice that a lot of people who don't have skin in this game are standing up for the ones that do. All I have been saying is that we have evidence things are moving...we can douse the torches and wait for the next payment, then the next payment, etc. I am not defending him at all...just using facts I have behind my money to recommend a direction which might benefit all of his outstanding liabilities.

    I'm incredibly happy to hear things seem to be working in your favor. I sincerely hope everyone in a similar boat is getting the same treatment as well.

    What irks the ever-loving-hell of me was this ass-hat's incessant cheerleading about any minor pin news, making up news (MBr = 2 great games in one), acting as Pinside's town crier, dismissing any people who called him out "I just want to focus on the positive people in the hobby...etc.", shilling (GOTG - "your wallets are safe!"... and then 2 months later is selling an LE because he claimed the code sucked).

    He was just the worst of what this site (normally way more good than bad) can offer. And now we all know his BS cheerleading was simply a ruse to draw people in to his psuedo-business/scheme. That's the part that pisses me off the most. He and I went at it in many threads and he always tried to play the nice guy... but it apparently all was a sales tactic to ultimately rip more and more people off.

    12
    #134 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:Look team internet...this was a hard situation.
    I am not saying I did everything right but I challenge anyone who says those of us who have been burned did anything wrong. What you don't see are the months of scheming, planning, talking to lawyers, researching DOJ complaints, talking to FL collection attorney's, etc. that we all did.

    And what rubs many wrong is that people let this guy continue to operate unflagged.

    As you even noted yourself, once things were public things radically changed. Letting these guys continue to operate under the guise of secrecy is people selfishly trying to make themselves whole before letting others in on the gig. I mean, where is the guy going to get money to make you right from if not from other people?

    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Lastly I will say, although complete opinion, it is possible that a small business man got in too deep too fast and was hugely impacted by the pandemic. I waffle back and forth as to my own belief here, but if you look at some of the facts he actually could have been running a reputable business which was crippled by an uncontrollable situation. If he makes everyone whole and repairs the damage caused, this would actually be one of the more impressive stories of pinball corruption that I've read about.

    Doesn't change that he was making shadey deals long before the pandemic... even if he started out with legit ones. The pandemic can only be attributed to maybe taking the wind out of the sails and causing the house of cards to fall. Clearly he was doing dubious deals before COVID, and COVID just helped bust the bubble when revenue streams dry up.

    #135 11 months ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    I'm incredibly happy to hear things seem to be working in your favor. I sincerely hope everyone in a similar boat is getting the same treatment as well.
    What irks the ever-loving-hell of me was this ass-hat's incessant cheerleading about any minor pin news, making up news (MBr = 2 great games in one), acting as Pinside's town crier, dismissing any people who called him out "I just want to focus on the positive people in the hobby...etc.", shilling (GOTG - "your wallets are safe!"... and then 2 months later is selling an LE because he claimed the code sucked).
    He was just the worst of what this site (normally way more good than bad) can offer. And now we all know his BS cheerleading was simply a ruse to draw people in to his psuedo-business/scheme. That's the part that pisses me off the most. He and I went at it in many threads and he always tried to play the nice guy... but it apparently all was a sales tactic to ultimately rip more and more people off.

    Yeah, I didn't know any of that. Honestly I didn't even know he was on Pinside. I will absolutely be researching it.

    #136 11 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    As someone completly on the outside looking in, this whole thing just smells so fishy. Like people getting "too good to be true" deals on new games, and then no one wants the source out of the bag, even the people owed money. Just sounds very off. Maybe I have it all wrong, but that is what it looks like.

    I’m sure the entire story hasn’t been revealed.

    #137 11 months ago

    I think at this time we can all agree to stay as far away as possible from this THIEF! Let's call him what he is, period! Do your part and warn everyone you can in the hobby about him. I'm glad everyone is at least starting to see some form of reimbursement. Let's face it, the reason that's happening is because he has 2 options. Start paying people back or fast track to jail. Continued good luck to all!!!

    #138 11 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    And what rubs many wrong is that people let this guy continue to operate unflagged.
    As you even noted yourself, once things were public things radically changed. Letting these guys continue to operate under the guise of secrecy is people selfishly trying to make themselves whole before letting others in on the gig. I mean, where is the guy going to get money to make you right from if not from other people?

    Doesn't change that he was making shadey deals long before the pandemic... even if he started out with legit ones. The pandemic can only be attributed to maybe taking the wind out of the sails and causing the house of cards to fall. Clearly he was doing dubious deals before COVID, and COVID just helped bust the bubble when revenue streams dry up.

    Is there any chance that if we go hard starting right now we end up f'ing over others who he is working to pay back? My original concern still stands unresolved. Maybe I am completely naive to the process, but I did check with multiple attorney's on this.

    #139 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Is there any chance that if we go hard starting right now we end up f'ing over others who he is working to pay back? My original concern still stands unresolved. Maybe I am completely naive to the process, but I did check with multiple attorney's on this.

    Attorneys don't give a rat's ass about anyone else - they are advising you on what makes most sense to YOU (and them).

    That's why their advice doesn't jive with community interest.

    #140 11 months ago

    If you contact the DOJ you won’t need to hire an attorney. They are the Attorney General. But hey, don’t listen to me. Keep hoping a con artist will pay you back and everyone else.

    #141 11 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    And what rubs many wrong is that people let this guy continue to operate unflagged.
    As you even noted yourself, once things were public things radically changed. Letting these guys continue to operate under the guise of secrecy is people selfishly trying to make themselves whole before letting others in on the gig. I mean, where is the guy going to get money to make you right from if not from other people?

    Doesn't change that he was making shadey deals long before the pandemic... even if he started out with legit ones. The pandemic can only be attributed to maybe taking the wind out of the sails and causing the house of cards to fall. Clearly he was doing dubious deals before COVID, and COVID just helped bust the bubble when revenue streams dry up.

    Shady shit was going on for 2 years.

    But people were getting games on the cheap so.....

    #142 11 months ago

    Is Demare the only one in this LLC business?

    #143 11 months ago

    I posted this in the thread that was closed but here is Jonathan Demare being sued under another company name he used called game rooms unlimited. It appears to be for a debt and this case was from 2009.

    https://trellis.law/doc/32370048/ORDER-TO-SHOW-CAUSE-SET-FOR-8-15-09-E-GARRISON

    #144 11 months ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Is Demare the only one in this LLC business?

    The filings in Florida appear that he has relinquished his role as president on or around 9/30/20. Someone else did the same as Vice President around the same time.

    Also if I’m remembering correct Jonathan would previously use his name after text or other correspondence on let’s call it a signature line but now just puts Amusment Services of America LLC. I wonder why the change???

    #145 11 months ago

    Sure seems to me that these threads have shown the 5 elements needed to be proved for a Florida fraud conviction. As well as some payments back to victims. Hope it works out.

    An experience that I had that was miserable, and then we watched the news years later and laughed...

    A school I co founded was embezzled from. One of the first signs before we unpeeled the onion was a bill for an unauthorized cell phone by a partner's daughter. So mom had screwed us over, we taught out students in conjunction with the state and walked across the parking lot and opened a new state approved school after a civil suit.

    A few years later the daughter was arrested for fraud. She is known as the SoCal Boob Bandit. She used a stolen cc to get a new boob job. She didn't realize that her old ones had serial numbers that she had left behind. You can't make this shit up. Like mother like daughter. She appeared in a few reality shows after that. I'm confident we havn't heard/seen the last of her.

    #146 11 months ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    I'll agree with most of what you say here except that anyone who has essentially defrauded people of $$ should get "cancelled" or suffer much worse legal repercussions. They should also be publically exposed to prevent others from ever falling into the same trap so kudos to those willing to do so.

    Quoted from Mr68:

    Please stop using Covid as an excuse for this guy. There are multiple thousands of business and people that have gone broke because of Covid. Is that an excuse to steal or con people? Based on testimony in these Pinside threads, his crimes have been egregious and intentional. He's using Covid as a distration.

    The judge, jury and executioner.

    #147 11 months ago
    Quoted from thechakapakuni:

    If you contact the DOJ you won’t need to hire an attorney. They are the Attorney General. But hey, don’t listen to me. Keep hoping a con artist will pay you back and everyone else.

    Wow.

    I’ll leave to all of you legal scholars to figure all this out for us

    Send me a pm when you do. Done wasting my time here

    #148 11 months ago
    Quoted from jcg9998:

    It amazes me how many people on this site just keep reading the same stuff over and over again and it's not penetrating.
    Bankruptcy does not help a person when they have committed fraud. If anything, it might actually help those harmed to collect money. If he files for bankruptcy, regular creditors can no longer go after him so he doesn't have to pay anything to anybody until his case is done. This means he doesn't have to pay his bills. This would mean that he would now have extra money to pay the important people... namely the people who are going after him for fraud.
    Forget about lawyers, when faced with either paying back those they defrauded or going to jail, most break down and cry like a baby. People like him would sell their mothers if necessary to avoid jail.

    If they are judgment proof fraud doesn’t help anybody receive a dime! Does that penetrate yet?

    And then you have to actually prove fraud. How many thousands of dollars in legal fees are you willing to pony up for us.

    As an attorney, I know it’s shocking to many, but I have a lot of experience of dealing with small business owners over the past 27 years.

    Sometimes good people get into a bind and do regrettable things. Sometimes bad people get away with doing terrible things because there is simply no recourse against them.

    For the man to survive and thrive benefits everybody despite the fact that some here relish a good lynching without all the FACTS

    Now, as an attorney, and once again, when the attorney’s get involved in this sort of matter we ALL lose.

    I believe I gave that same advice here years ago with Jpop?

    Was Jpop committing fraud in a Ponzi kind of way? Did anyone ever prove it or recover damages?

    How much money was spent on legal fees? If it makes you feel better to extract a pound of flesh in the moment of rage I promise you it doesn’t feel so great years later and thousands of dollars of legal fees later.

    #149 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    If they are judgment proof fraud doesn’t help anybody receive a dime! Does that penetrate yet?

    Well this is likely correct... someone in my biz got sued for a ridiculous sum of money and lost (rightly so).

    They basically said, well that sucks, shrugged and closed the company and started a new one.

    Nobody can collect because he had it set up so he could skate.

    This shit does happen.

    15
    #150 11 months ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    Please stop using Covid as an excuse for this guy. There are multiple thousands of business and people that have gone broke because of Covid. Is that an excuse to steal or con people? Based on testimony in these Pinside threads, his actions have been egregious and intentional. He's using Covid as a distration.

    Amusement Scam of America would be the only pinball vendor who didn't profit during the Pandemic. Even if part of his business was selling to ops, there's MORE than enough slack to be made up by the enthusiastic herd of new pinball buyers entering the market daily.

    Can someone name another pinball "distributor" who has even hinted at trouble in the past year, much less stopped delivering games that were paid for or pulling bait and switches like this? Pretty sure they are all taking nightly baths in cash and Dom Pergnion 1952, yet somehow this guy is destroyed by a pandemic that has all the other distributors printing money.

    This bad excuse stinks worse than a Florida swamp and everybody knows it - just like all the other excuses people have written about.

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