That's exactly what I mean. The "others."

Unfortunately this seems too simple. Too many people wanting to protect this guy, its one of the oddest things ive ever seen.

I read a book about Stockholm Syndrome once.
At first it was terrible, but by the end I really enjoyed it.

protect this guy? 1/3 of the posters in thread version 1, wanted to hunt him down, but wouldn't survive a night in northwest miami-dade.

i don't want to protect jonathan. the other thread got nuts. robin didn't shut it down. bill did. and that's his choice.

someone driving a white F150 is probably getting eggs thrown at him down in miami. but hey....miami. could just be the morning drive.

one little thing nags me: if ASOA was out to steal money, why didn't he declare bankruptcy in March, and write all of those people off?

he's not j-pop pulling a "magic girl". who people have given a pass. i was a stamp away from getting magic girl...until the deal changed...by the hour.

i read that he got a lot of slack about selling pre-orders for Aliens. which is being made: https://www.pinballbrothers.com/alien/

seriously, i'd like to know the ASOA advantage of paying back vs. bankrupt and done. you now, like some florida coin-op vendors who are on "Business Name", version 9.

jonathan / ASOA definitely got over his/their head.

but it's weird to have 100s of successful transactions, for the sole goal of going full Ponzi, as he knew in 2017, that 2020 was the year of the pandemic.

and i know someone will throw up a wiki link that explains the mental psychoticness of a ponzi scheme pyramid minded sole.

i still suggest that he needs to post to explain some of this. silence is deadly. and $5.00 is $5.00.

No way this Jonathan is not a scammer. See my previous post. He has no warehouse, is not a distributer, and had 3rd party deliver games. He lied numerous times about trivial details. No company would do this. Remember this appears to be a one man shop he is the business. Any and all of these are red flags.

He paid off one person 2750whatever as it was cheap to do so and he was barking the loudest. The thing that got him caught was Pinside. He got away with it for so long as every buyer was isolated and did not know of others or how to sound the alarm as Jonathan dragged them along.

I bet he pays a few to buy time, a trickle payment for a few. Guys like this have no assets. House double, triple mortgaged. Money taken out of the business as soon as possible every month. No reinvestment in materials or other assets to seize.

maybe he took PPE loan or has other scams going he doesn't want exposed like someone else said.

I have no idea what Iceman is getting at. This sounds like SkitB and Dutch all over again with support from random pinsiders who are delusional.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. The people he owes money to want to see him do well so he can pay them back all or a portion of what he owes them. If he goes to jail he can’t pay anyone back, if he goes into bankruptcy his motivation to pay people back may be significantly reduced. Not sure where his source of funds to pay people back come from at this juncture, not from selling pins it would seem.

So get the money out of him THEN contact the DOJ. That sounds pretty simple to me and is what should happen.

Thanks, I appreciate that. To be honest, the aggravation/humiliation/bickering with JD was worse than the coin (for me).

Stress is unhealthy, and this transaction was stress filled. When I corresponded with Spooky/Kingpin (in May 2020), and they couldn't "find" my game, it was really shocking. As far as R&M goes, if you don't have a game #, you don't have a game. I had no game #. I felt like a sucker.

As I said 3 days ago (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804):

"Jonathan Demare (aka ASOA on Pinside) had 20 glowing Pinside reviews from 1/17/18-5/16/19. I was an ASOA customer and purchased 4 Stern machines (IMDN Premium, Beatles Gold, Munsters Pro, & JP Premium). All fairly smooth transactions. He was loved and trusted on the local Florida Pinball site "The Village"."

I'm thankful for the AIQ Pro delivered on 10/13 and for the remaining cash delivered today, 2/16. Thank you, JD/ASOA. I respect you are making progress on making your customers whole. While it doesn't erase the aggravation/humiliation/bickering, it's progress and I'm hopeful you will have better days ahead.

Another relevant financial impact related to my failed Rick & Morty transaction: When I finally landed a Rick and Morty locally (on 11/20/20), I had to "pay up" ~$2,000! Fortunately, I LOVE the game and like supporting Spooky (good people).

Look team internet...this was a hard situation.

I am not saying I did everything right but I challenge anyone who says those of us who have been burned did anything wrong. What you don't see are the months of scheming, planning, talking to lawyers, researching DOJ complaints, talking to FL collection attorney's, etc. that we all did.

Once you are inside of a big money possible con you kind of become a deer in the headlights. You don't know what is true or false. You worry about the impact to others and you even wonder if the things you perceive as lies are sometimes founded in truth. It is super easy to sit behind those keys and imagine what you would do...but you don't really know what you would do until it happens.

At the end of the day I was just issued a partial payment from ASOA because of these threads. I spoke with Jonathan on the phone and made it very clear that the portion of what he owes me is not enough. I expect to continue to receive the scheduled payments as promised and furthermore expect that EVERYONE else receives their payments as well. I told him that if I did not see progress in that direction I would be splitting this money amongst the other outstanding liabilities as I see fit and attacking him with every resource I can muster. Again, now that this is public I have less concern of protecting the anonymity of the innocent.

Lastly I will say, although complete opinion, it is possible that a small business man got in too deep too fast and was hugely impacted by the pandemic. I waffle back and forth as to my own belief here, but if you look at some of the facts he actually could have been running a reputable business which was crippled by an uncontrollable situation. If he makes everyone whole and repairs the damage caused, this would actually be one of the more impressive stories of pinball corruption that I've read about.

I've heard of people who are still waiting for their JPoP machines or whatever other scam out there. At least Jonathan seems to be attempting to recover.

You’re most likely correct, like you I’m just curious where the new money comes from to pay folks back.

Feels like the dude just kicks the can down the road.

My run in with this dickhead was something like two years ago and he had his dancing shoes on then... I dont recall any pandemic then.

People ignored all the signs and warnings because they were getting things on the cheap.

End of day this about greed... both him and the buyers undercutting the official dealers to save a few bucks.

Sorry people had issues but you know when things are too good to be true (like games at dealer cost to end users) they probably are. blah blah.

(cue the down votes for being honest)

How do you know any of this?

Factual history shows MANY situations where small companies boldly lied to better their stance and ultimately became Atari, Apple or Microsoft. The world is business is ultra nuanced and you can't just say there is one clear way to grow.

As I've said in other posts, I intend to help everyone else get back to even. I'm not defending anything he has done. The data I have does not indicate parking lot deals, million dollar homes or Ponzi schemes. I have speculated all of those things over the past 15 months but my data has never shown it. As of today, the data indicates a rapid attempt to right his wrongs.

We will see how this plays out. I hold true to my word that I am in this for the group and not myself. I will help everyone who has an outstanding liability get their money back.

Can money obtained through theft be discharged via bankruptcy?

It amazes me how many people on this site just keep reading the same stuff over and over again and it's not penetrating.

Bankruptcy does not help a person when they have committed fraud. If anything, it might actually help those harmed to collect money. If he files for bankruptcy, regular creditors can no longer go after him so he doesn't have to pay anything to anybody until his case is done. This means he doesn't have to pay his bills. This would mean that he would now have extra money to pay the important people... namely the people who are going after him for fraud.

Forget about lawyers, when faced with either paying back those they defrauded or going to jail, most break down and cry like a baby. People like him would sell their mothers if necessary to avoid jail.

Yeah, my original dealings were pre-pandemic. I believe the pandemic is an easy cover but chances are things had hopped off the rails before hand.

At the end of the day, if he can square everyone up and get back to running a reputable business I see it as kind of a success story. Either that or this becomes the next Tiger King on Netflix. Either way we all benefit right?

You have to prove fraud though right? My concern was always that my claims of fraud were "strawman" since I've never done anything more than talk to him on the phone. Yes, I believe I've been fed lies or "untruths" but I could never actually pin down fraud.

At some point you don't want to be one of those people that calls the police because Popeye's ran out of chicken sandwiches.

http://www.myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/18A7753257FE439085256CC9004EC4F7

File complaints with the Florida Attorney Generals office.

Yes of course fraud would have to be proven. However, most people when faced with fraud charges would choose to pay rather than let a fraud case play out against them. 99 percent of the people who have the money to pay would rather pay than go to jail. In his case, he might have to sell his cars and house to pay. Still, the most likely scenario is that he would willingly do so rather than go to jail.

Yeah, the advice I've received from multiple attorney's was to continue pressing and not destroy the business. I guess I could have talked to a fifth attorney or studied law myself but I didn't have time.

The power of the internet is amazing. The guy is currently trying to repair damage and refund people. I say let him do that. If he falters the collective internet can go ape on him and the business. In the meantime it doesn't seem productive to defame a person (not saying you were doing that) who seems to be making an attempt to recover. Time will tell. If he is going to pay people back month by month, the first month that doesn't happen is the first month of absolute never ending hell for him.

Mark my words, I'll spend another 17k to absolutely destroy him if he truly is a scam artist.

Keep in mind... there is no business to destroy... who is distributing games to him?

Defame him??? The guy stole money from people and lied, I think he did it to himself.

Yep, why anymore would make excuses for this guy is beyond my understanding. The criminal/con behavior is clearly documented WAY before covid. Either you are a good human being and wouldn't cheat/steal from others or you're a POS and have no problem lying, deceiving, and stealing from others. Pretty clear this guy is exactly who everyone says he is.

UZI
youdontknowme

Pinside member
US H3ll, FL
8y 36,050 161 5 7
jonathan, you better fix this sh!t...i'll let the whole cat out of this bag about your main source of machines, at least back in 2018.
seriously, i've spoken with you in person. and on the phone. but there's way too much going on here to ignore.
make a fake account for pinside. speak up. be heard.

When do we get the details since this isn’t a fraud situation like you claim?

Sounds like crickets so far on that front...

ASOA Lies... and he was a crap Pinsider too (resized).jpg

2020 was definitely a year filled with con artist shenanigans.

He wasn't a victim of the pandemic, he was one of many people who used it as a excuse and/or as a way to take advantage of others for a buck.

As someone completly on the outside looking in, this whole thing just smells so fishy. Like people getting "too good to be true" deals on new games, and then no one wants the source out of the bag, even the people owed money. Just sounds very off. Maybe I have it all wrong, but that is what it looks like.

As the OP of the original thread, here is an update.

As far as I can verify, each of those to whom Jonathan owes money has gotten an official agreement from Jonathan / ASOA detailing a payment plan that will commence on the 19th of the month and recur until their respective debts are paid in full. Jonathan has made initial payments to some of us already, based on the agreements negotiated during conversations with each of us. Some folks like snaroff have been settled completely.

There is one person whose pin arrived broken and was returned and the situation is a little convoluted. Jonathan has promised to negotiate a mutually agreeable settlement with this person tomorrow.

I’ve gotten confirmation from some, others would like to stay uninvolved with this series of posts and me, and I respect their privacy.

If you are one of the people to whom he owes money and feel that he has not done what I have outlined above, please reach out to me. I will make sure that Jonathan clears his debt with each of us.

I will update as necessary.

Thank you
Bill Clement

Yeah, that is what I want to know.

I actually got a letter today and some of my refund to my PayPal account. I have my doubts but thanks to crwjumper this is a step in the right direction.

I honestly didn't think posting on Pinside would do anything but it seems to have done A LOT. I honestly appreciate the good people in this hobby who try to keep things on the up-and-up. It is really nice that a lot of people who don't have skin in this game are standing up for the ones that do. All I have been saying is that we have evidence things are moving...we can douse the torches and wait for the next payment, then the next payment, etc. I am not defending him at all...just using facts I have behind my money to recommend a direction which might benefit all of his outstanding liabilities.

Awesome, you rock Bill! TY for stepping out and trying to help all of us. You have all my contact info in Pinside and email if you need anything.

Organized fraud is definitely there. How? It's the lies and misrepresentations in order to obtain money that were taken for a said purchase and used/directed somewhere else. Anytime fake claims or representations (you are buying something that doesn't exist, fake tracking numbers, fake purchase orders to show product that doesn't exist, etc.) are made to illicit money or put off someone that should be getting their item/money back, that's an overt act. Two or more transactions like this and the charge goes up to the "organized" Fraud level.

I'm incredibly happy to hear things seem to be working in your favor. I sincerely hope everyone in a similar boat is getting the same treatment as well.

What irks the ever-loving-hell of me was this ass-hat's incessant cheerleading about any minor pin news, making up news (MBr = 2 great games in one), acting as Pinside's town crier, dismissing any people who called him out "I just want to focus on the positive people in the hobby...etc.", shilling (GOTG - "your wallets are safe!"... and then 2 months later is selling an LE because he claimed the code sucked).

He was just the worst of what this site (normally way more good than bad) can offer. And now we all know his BS cheerleading was simply a ruse to draw people in to his psuedo-business/scheme. That's the part that pisses me off the most. He and I went at it in many threads and he always tried to play the nice guy... but it apparently all was a sales tactic to ultimately rip more and more people off.

And what rubs many wrong is that people let this guy continue to operate unflagged.

As you even noted yourself, once things were public things radically changed. Letting these guys continue to operate under the guise of secrecy is people selfishly trying to make themselves whole before letting others in on the gig. I mean, where is the guy going to get money to make you right from if not from other people?

Doesn't change that he was making shadey deals long before the pandemic... even if he started out with legit ones. The pandemic can only be attributed to maybe taking the wind out of the sails and causing the house of cards to fall. Clearly he was doing dubious deals before COVID, and COVID just helped bust the bubble when revenue streams dry up.

Yeah, I didn't know any of that. Honestly I didn't even know he was on Pinside. I will absolutely be researching it.

I’m sure the entire story hasn’t been revealed.

I think at this time we can all agree to stay as far away as possible from this THIEF! Let's call him what he is, period! Do your part and warn everyone you can in the hobby about him. I'm glad everyone is at least starting to see some form of reimbursement. Let's face it, the reason that's happening is because he has 2 options. Start paying people back or fast track to jail. Continued good luck to all!!!

Is there any chance that if we go hard starting right now we end up f'ing over others who he is working to pay back? My original concern still stands unresolved. Maybe I am completely naive to the process, but I did check with multiple attorney's on this.

Attorneys don't give a rat's ass about anyone else - they are advising you on what makes most sense to YOU (and them).

That's why their advice doesn't jive with community interest.

If you contact the DOJ you won’t need to hire an attorney. They are the Attorney General. But hey, don’t listen to me. Keep hoping a con artist will pay you back and everyone else.

Shady shit was going on for 2 years.

But people were getting games on the cheap so.....

Is Demare the only one in this LLC business?

I posted this in the thread that was closed but here is Jonathan Demare being sued under another company name he used called game rooms unlimited. It appears to be for a debt and this case was from 2009.

https://trellis.law/doc/32370048/ORDER-TO-SHOW-CAUSE-SET-FOR-8-15-09-E-GARRISON

The filings in Florida appear that he has relinquished his role as president on or around 9/30/20. Someone else did the same as Vice President around the same time.

Also if I’m remembering correct Jonathan would previously use his name after text or other correspondence on let’s call it a signature line but now just puts Amusment Services of America LLC. I wonder why the change???

Sure seems to me that these threads have shown the 5 elements needed to be proved for a Florida fraud conviction. As well as some payments back to victims. Hope it works out.

An experience that I had that was miserable, and then we watched the news years later and laughed...

A school I co founded was embezzled from. One of the first signs before we unpeeled the onion was a bill for an unauthorized cell phone by a partner's daughter. So mom had screwed us over, we taught out students in conjunction with the state and walked across the parking lot and opened a new state approved school after a civil suit.

A few years later the daughter was arrested for fraud. She is known as the SoCal Boob Bandit. She used a stolen cc to get a new boob job. She didn't realize that her old ones had serial numbers that she had left behind. You can't make this shit up. Like mother like daughter. She appeared in a few reality shows after that. I'm confident we havn't heard/seen the last of her.

The judge, jury and executioner.

Wow.

I’ll leave to all of you legal scholars to figure all this out for us

Send me a pm when you do. Done wasting my time here

If they are judgment proof fraud doesn’t help anybody receive a dime! Does that penetrate yet?

And then you have to actually prove fraud. How many thousands of dollars in legal fees are you willing to pony up for us.

As an attorney, I know it’s shocking to many, but I have a lot of experience of dealing with small business owners over the past 27 years.

Sometimes good people get into a bind and do regrettable things. Sometimes bad people get away with doing terrible things because there is simply no recourse against them.

For the man to survive and thrive benefits everybody despite the fact that some here relish a good lynching without all the FACTS

Now, as an attorney, and once again, when the attorney’s get involved in this sort of matter we ALL lose.

I believe I gave that same advice here years ago with Jpop?

Was Jpop committing fraud in a Ponzi kind of way? Did anyone ever prove it or recover damages?

How much money was spent on legal fees? If it makes you feel better to extract a pound of flesh in the moment of rage I promise you it doesn’t feel so great years later and thousands of dollars of legal fees later.

Well this is likely correct... someone in my biz got sued for a ridiculous sum of money and lost (rightly so).

They basically said, well that sucks, shrugged and closed the company and started a new one.

Nobody can collect because he had it set up so he could skate.

This shit does happen.

Amusement Scam of America would be the only pinball vendor who didn't profit during the Pandemic. Even if part of his business was selling to ops, there's MORE than enough slack to be made up by the enthusiastic herd of new pinball buyers entering the market daily.

Can someone name another pinball "distributor" who has even hinted at trouble in the past year, much less stopped delivering games that were paid for or pulling bait and switches like this? Pretty sure they are all taking nightly baths in cash and Dom Pergnion 1952, yet somehow this guy is destroyed by a pandemic that has all the other distributors printing money.

This bad excuse stinks worse than a Florida swamp and everybody knows it - just like all the other excuses people have written about.