(Topic ID: 288096)

Part 2 - Beware of Jonathan Demare / ASOA

By Mr68

11 months ago


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    #51 11 months ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    This is why the thread should not have been locked.
    This guy knew he owed you $ and would have never contacted you if this thread didnt exist

    I haven't even finished the original thread, but if what crwjumper says is true we can't go around posting details about him and his family. Legal action is the only technical way to handle this. The group of people I have been emailing with are all plotting the most logical progression. I am confident we'll find a way to highlight the crime and use the system to extract some sort of revenge.

    I agree this is good to talk about openly...it just makes sense for us to stay above the belt right now. I've lost a lot of money but I still consider myself fortunate based on how much I could have lost.

    #52 11 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    That's why, ultimately, the manufacturers need to take some ownership for the "system" that enabled JD/ASOA.

    Y

    I dont follow you here...are you saying the Spooky is responsible for ensuring that once a game is shipped to its distributor, it has to make sure it ends up in the end users hands? What if the grey market seller opened it, played it, then resold it.

    #53 11 months ago
    Quoted from Palmer:

    That's where you lost me dude. If you can't figure out who is lying then I don't think you will get a refund. Why do manufacturers now have to chase down each scammer? Spooky did you a favor by doing your own due diligence.

    At this point, it's fairly clear JD/ASOA is lying. That said, the distributors JD/ASOA gets his games from NEVER want to be associated with him. Why? The manufacturers (Stern, JJP, Spooky) have agreements with the distributors that are apparently being violated by these transactions.

    I'm not asking manufacturers to "chase down each scammer". What Spooky did has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "my due diligence". You don't know what you are talking about. Only Spooky knows what relationship/agreement they have with their distributors. I have 0 knowledge of this (or should I). All I know is JD/ASOA said he was getting the game from Kingpin and they denied this. At this point, it's clear who is lying, but it wasn't clear back in May! To me, at least.

    #54 11 months ago

    I don't mean to be negative but if this guy has a LLC and business license how can you expect to get anything back using the legal system? Think about predator. Kevin did not even have a business license or LLC. There were miles of documents and statements that self implicated himself and in the end all of the legal fees amounted to nothing! How is Kevin not in jail? Stealing IP and defrauding people out of $500k or whatever it was? All without a business or LCC license. ASOA might be found liable and a lean put on them that no one can ever collect as the business has no assets. I think these clowns know this. I see it all the time with contractors. Clawback is rare from what I know to the real owner (Jonathan). Can a Pinside lawyer give us their take on this?

    #55 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    I didn't even see the original post

    Here's a link to the original post if you or anyone else needs it. A lot of people are coming forward now.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa

    75
    #56 11 months ago

    I’m all for calling out scammers and warning fellow Pinsiders about them. Ergo, I have no intention of locking this thread - on one condition: no posting of personal info, home address, street view screenshots etc.

    Under no circumstance do I want Pinside to be a part in inciting violence or (death)threats against anyone. Not even scammers. Thanks for your understanding.

    #57 11 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    The challenge I've had with this fiasco is determining who is lying...JD/ASOA or the distributors! That's why, ultimately, the manufacturers need to take some ownership for the "system" that enabled JD/ASOA.

    Hate to break it to you but in the world of "grey market" trading there is often a blind eye turned to what happens after the initial from factory sale.

    For a manufacturer once they get paid for the goods and its "in the channel" they dont really have much control over what happens with it.... or generally care for that matter.

    Grey market trading isnt illegal at all but it can and does violate distribution agreements...

    #58 11 months ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Hate to break it to you but in the world of "grey market" trading there is often a blind eye turned to what happens after the initial from factory sale.
    For a manufacturer once they get paid for the goods and its "in the channel" they dont really have much control over what happens with it.... or generally care for that matter.
    Grey market trading isnt illegal at all but it can and does violate distribution agreements...

    This is completely incorrect for a whole lot of products, particularly anything generally sold to enterprise / businesses as opposed to consumers. I've worked for manufacturers in various tech industries for most of my life and they absolutely care about what happens once the product enters distribution. This has implications for service (manufacturer will not offer service / repair of grey market items), ability to get software upgrades, add licenses for functionality, etc. You may be correct about how the Pinball industry works but to broadly apply to that to all manufacturing is inaccurate.

    #59 11 months ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    This is completely incorrect for a whole lot of products, particularly anything generally sold to enterprise / businesses as opposed to consumers. I've worked for manufacturers in various tech industries for most of my life and they absolutely care about what happens once the product enters distribution. This has implications for service (manufacturer will not offer service / repair of grey market items), ability to get software upgrades, add licenses for functionality, etc. You may be correct about how the Pinball industry works but to broadly apply to that to all manufacturing is inaccurate.

    Thats fair and it will vary from industry to industry.

    I did say "often" and wasnt implying thats the way it is for every company. Some brands very much care where the goods go.

    For consumer goods it is often the case that the manufacturer simply does not care as long as they get paid and their sales go up.

    They arent about to go after a huge distributor they make a ton of money off and shut them down over it.

    Send them a polite letter to stop?? maybe.

    #60 11 months ago
    Quoted from nate1981s:

    don't mean to be negative but if this guy has a LLC and business license how can you expect to get anything back using the legal system? Think about predator. Kevin did not even have a business license or LLC. There were miles of documents and statements that self implicated himself and in the end all of the legal fees amounted to nothing! How is Kevin not in jail? Stealing IP and defrauding people out of $500k or whatever it was? All without a business or LCC license. ASOA might be found liable and a lean put on them that no one can ever collect as the business has no assets. I think these clowns know this. I see it all the time with contractors. Clawback is rare from what I know to the real owner (Jonathan). Can a Pinside

    This is a very valid point. You should be very concerned. The corporate vail will provide protection but not if there is criminal intent. He is innocent til proven guilty in the court of law. (Not advocating here) If he is posting restitution by making payments then that could be looked upon by the court as making amends.

    #61 11 months ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    This is why the thread should not have been locked.
    This guy knew he owed you $ and would have never contacted you if this thread didnt exist

    agree, probably just needed some more moderation
    there is no tolerance for personal threats and violence

    #62 11 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    On 5/8/20, I insisted Jonathan provide the game # ASAP after speaking with Kayte Emery, CFO Spooky. Considering 6 months had past since taking my money, getting my game # was pretty basic information. He never provided it, claiming it would damage his distributor relationship.
    On 5/10/20, Kayte Emery personally contacted all Spooky Distributors and they all said no transaction was done with JD/ASOA.
    The challenge I've had with this fiasco is determining who is lying...JD/ASOA or the distributors! That's why, ultimately, the manufacturers need to take some ownership for the "system" that enabled JD/ASOA.

    Yep, and worst yet, JD/ASOA still claims he is my "buddy"! Crazy shit.

    My opinion, you have to put this on Jonathan. I can’t name any distributor that would put themselves in this position for a customer like that by withholding information to the manufacturer as to where their equipment went. Sure, he could have multiple lines of credit across several distributors, but if a manufacturer was doing some kind of audit as to where some equipment went, you’d better believe that the distributor would fess up otherwise their tit would be in a ringer and they would probably lose the line that they represent.

    #63 11 months ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    I’m the OP for the original thread. The reason that I requested that it be closed is because several people were posting addresses, a picture of a home, a truck etc. along with suggestions that people take a gang of friends to pay Jonathan a “visit”, suggesting violence.
    My original thread was created for the purpose of making us all aware of what Jonathan had done and as a warning to others to beware. I also wanted to pressure Jonathan to finally pay each of us back. He and I have been communicating since the original thread was open. He is fully aware that if he doesn’t follow through with getting each and every one of us repaid all of the monies owed us in a timely fashion, I will work with all parties involved, his local police, the department of justice and possibly the FBI and he will be arrested.
    This has prompted him to first, pay me a significant amount of the money that he owes me and to provide me with documentation outlining a payment plan for the remainder. He is also contacting all others involved and doing the same. I have been in contact with some of the affected parties and am working as a go-between if they are dissatisfied with what Jonathan is doing for them.
    Another reason I wanted the thread closed is that some were attempting to point fingers at pinball distributors, speculating that they may have been involved with his scheme. To put that speculation to rest, I can tell you that the pins that Jonathan sold me did not all come from one source. Let’s not screw over legitimate distributors by starting a witch hunt that may cause them problems. We don't need to screw up any pinball distributor’s businesses because of one bad actor’s actions.
    I have to say that I was disappointed by some of the attacks that were posted within a thread that I created in an attempt to expose a problem in our community and to help those involved.
    Believe it or not, Jonathan never asked me to delete the post. And I wouldn’t do that even if he paid me twice what he owed me. I am an honorable person attempting to resolve my issue with him and help the others who he has hurt.
    Let’s stop piling on and get this problem resolved. Please be patient and not throw gasoline on a fire.
    I won’t be posting anything else in this thread except for confirmed resolutions when the affected parties are made whole, or conversely, actions taken against Jonathan if he fails to do so.
    Thank you.
    Bill Clement

    Quoted from crwjumper:

    I’m the OP for the original thread. The reason that I requested that it be closed is because several people were posting addresses, a picture of a home, a truck etc. along with suggestions that people take a gang of friends to pay Jonathan a “visit”, suggesting violence.
    My original thread was created for the purpose of making us all aware of what Jonathan had done and as a warning to others to beware. I also wanted to pressure Jonathan to finally pay each of us back. He and I have been communicating since the original thread was open. He is fully aware that if he doesn’t follow through with getting each and every one of us repaid all of the monies owed us in a timely fashion, I will work with all parties involved, his local police, the department of justice and possibly the FBI and he will be arrested.
    This has prompted him to first, pay me a significant amount of the money that he owes me and to provide me with documentation outlining a payment plan for the remainder. He is also contacting all others involved and doing the same. I have been in contact with some of the affected parties and am working as a go-between if they are dissatisfied with what Jonathan is doing for them.
    Another reason I wanted the thread closed is that some were attempting to point fingers at pinball distributors, speculating that they may have been involved with his scheme. To put that speculation to rest, I can tell you that the pins that Jonathan sold me did not all come from one source. Let’s not screw over legitimate distributors by starting a witch hunt that may cause them problems. We don't need to screw up any pinball distributor’s businesses because of one bad actor’s actions.
    I have to say that I was disappointed by some of the attacks that were posted within a thread that I created in an attempt to expose a problem in our community and to help those involved.
    Believe it or not, Jonathan never asked me to delete the post. And I wouldn’t do that even if he paid me twice what he owed me. I am an honorable person attempting to resolve my issue with him and help the others who he has hurt.
    Let’s stop piling on and get this problem resolved. Please be patient and not throw gasoline on a fire.
    I won’t be posting anything else in this thread except for confirmed resolutions when the affected parties are made whole, or conversely, actions taken against Jonathan if he fails to do so.
    Thank you.
    Bill Clement

    Great post Bill and thx for posting it.

    The people that are affected by this realize the only way it gets resolved in OUR favor is if there is NO bankruptcy filing. If it ultimately comes to that then so be it but you and some others have already recouped significant sums of money and i'd like the rest of folks to be made whole as well.

    I am personally patiently waiting in hopes that others that need it more can get repaid. I take some responsibility for my own actions.

    Do we have the ability to file suit and force him into bankruptcy today? Absolutely. Who does that help get repaid while the guy is actively making payments. That would be stupid and foolish!

    I get why the mob would like to see nothing more than a full blown take down and have the guy thrown in jail. It makes for great drama and sport.

    Just so we ALL know, and yes it will be repeated over and over again by the mob, don't EVER buy pinball machines from Jonathan and ASOA!

    For the record, the many pinball machines i received from Jonathan came from no ONE particular distributor and it's totally irrelevant for that matter.

    Put a sticky on the front page as a PSA if you like.

    #64 11 months ago

    Has anyone validated his business listing. Is he INC or LLC?

    #65 11 months ago

    If he has a business protection, LLC or INC ect... and he does everything through the business, once the money is gone, then he files bankruptcy for the business. Once that happens, It’s game over.

    16
    #66 11 months ago

    It's not game over. If you commit fraud, bankruptcy does not protect you.

    #67 11 months ago

    This is why everyone should press charges 'yesterday'. Every minute that passes, you give him more time to hide his money.

    91
    #68 11 months ago

    Good news/progress.

    JD/ASOA has finally paid me the $1,750 balance owed The difference between the Rick and Morty never delivered (Invoice dated/paid 12/16/19) and the Avengers Infinity Quest Pro delivered on 10/13 (which I sold recently for $5,500). I am now WHOLE!

    Thanks to crwjumper and Mr68 for helping get this balance paid!

    #69 11 months ago

    Nevermind...

    #70 11 months ago
    Quoted from jcg9998:

    It's not game over. If you commit fraud, bankruptcy does not protect you.

    It does if you have no personal assets to attach too, asset protected, and your business is the only income generator with assets that are leased.

    While someone is currently making payments and has a plan to do so you don't want to squash that redemption effort.

    Speculate all you want, the facts are the facts here. And you know what they say about "opinions".

    A lawsuit is always an option and if it happens it will come from me and i'll be sure to update all of you with the gory drama details. Lol.

    As someone that represents MANY small businesses, when you have to get to that point you have already lost and the lawyers win.

    Anyone want to start a GoFundme page for litigation expenses to go after Jonathan? I didn't think so.

    #71 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Great post Bill and thx for posting it.
    The people that are affected by this realize the only way it gets resolved in OUR favor is if there is NO bankruptcy filing. If it ultimately comes to that then so be it but you and some others have already recouped significant sums of money and i'd like the rest of folks to be made whole as well.
    I am personally patiently waiting in hopes that others that need it more can get repaid. I take some responsibility for my own actions.
    Do we have the ability to file suit and force him into bankruptcy today? Absolutely. Who does that help get repaid while the guy is actively making payments. That would be stupid and foolish!
    I get why the mob would like to see nothing more than a full blown take down and have the guy thrown in jail. It makes for great drama and sport.
    Just so we ALL know, and yes it will be repeated over and over again by the mob, don't EVER buy pinball machines from Jonathan and ASOA!
    For the record, the many pinball machines i received from Jonathan came from no ONE particular distributor and it's totally irrelevant for that matter.
    Put a sticky on the front page as a PSA if you like.

    Care to fill us in on where the many pinball machines you bought from him did come from? I think we're all dying to know if it was shady gray market deals, under the table distributor agreements, or a simple case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I'm not saying you're wrong here, but this has a lot of similarities to the whole TBL fiasco where it was "please don't press any charges because then nobody gets anything". I want everyone to get what is owed to them, but I also want to see scammers removed from the scene completely.

    #73 11 months ago

    I thank the pinball gods daily that my wife over the years has put the kibosh on buying several pinball machines that would have scammed me out of some big $$$. I feel for all those who have lost money to pinball scammers. Why is it that in pinball, people seem to see a way out of impending doom with a couple of nice words and a pat on the back? Probably the same gene that makes us think that even when down by a billion points we will whisper to ourselves- “with this last ball in play, I am going to crush this motherf--ker and there is nothing that’s going to stop...” <ball drains SDTM> “Oh, Shit!... OK, best two out of three?”

    #74 11 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Good news/progress.
    JD/ASOA has finally paid me the $1,750 balance owed The difference between the Rick and Morty never delivered (Invoice dated/paid 12/16/19) and the Avengers Infinity Quest Pro delivered on 10/13 (which I sold recently for $5,500). I am now WHOLE!
    Thanks to crwjumper and mr68 for helping get this balance paid!

    I hope this is the start of a turn around for this Johnathan guy. Coins are very precious to all of us and you cannot treat people and their coins like the many stories we have read. Normally these stories do not turn out well - but man would this be cool if everyone was made whole and Johnathan turned out to be a great and trusted person to work with down the road.

    Congrats snaroff and here's hoping to similar fortunes to the rest of you affected!

    31
    #75 11 months ago

    hmmmm.... Here's a thought. Buy your games from a AUTHORIZED dealer..... end of story.

    #76 11 months ago

    Welcome to America 2021

    #77 11 months ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Care to fill us in on where the many pinball machines you bought from him did come from? I think we're all dying to know if it was shady gray market deals, under the table distributor agreements, or a simple case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I'm not saying you're wrong here, but this has a lot of similarities to the whole TBL fiasco where it was "please don't press any charges because then nobody gets anything". I want everyone to get what is owed to them, but I also want to see scammers removed from the scene completely.

    So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.

    Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.

    Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan. I wish i had a dollar for all of the times we discussed litigation, collection attorney's, etc. etc. And now here we are.

    I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years, that came from various distributors, and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.

    He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.

    A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.

    As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.

    Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.

    I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?

    Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?

    Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.

    So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.

    As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.

    Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.

    You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!

    Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

    36
    #78 11 months ago
    Quoted from hockeymag8:

    would this be cool if everyone was made whole and Johnathan turned out to be a great and trusted person to work with down the road.

    Not a chance in hell I would ever buy something from this guy even if he did make everyone whole...

    #79 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Hello everyone...I am yet another person in the "Jonathan took my money" group. I didn't even see the original post but I did just receive the first phone call from Jonathan in over a year. He seems to be shitting his pants over the posts. He told me that I am one of 12 remaining customers not compensated for what we purchased.
    The "promise" was that I would receive an email today detailing a payment plan which will repay me for my original purchase amount. Based on verbal details of his plan it would take him roughly 13 months to complete.
    I can't say that I trust any of this, but if he sends it over I will gladly start accepting money right away. I would love to get back some of my lost dollars.

    Take your money and still call the police and file a law suit. This guy needs to go to jail and understand his consequences.

    #80 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.
    Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.
    Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan.
    I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.
    He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.
    A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.
    As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.
    Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.
    I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?
    Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?
    Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.
    So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.
    As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.
    Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.
    You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!
    Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. So there you go.

    I'll agree with most of what you say here except that anyone who has essentially defrauded people of $$ should get "cancelled" or suffer much worse legal repercussions. They should also be publically exposed to prevent others from ever falling into the same trap so kudos to those willing to do so.

    #81 11 months ago
    Quoted from Hemispheres:

    hmmmm.... Here's a thought. Buy your games from a AUTHORIZED dealer..... end of story.

    Hmmm, here's a thought, he was an "authorized distributor" for JJP.

    Maybe i should include JJP in on any lawsuit for POTC and WOZ?

    Once again, just rampant nonsense but thanks for the advice. I've bought MANY games over the past decade and I always come out on the plus side. One way or the other, this time will be no different.

    But you can root for my failure, it's ok. lol

    Either way, it won't affect my enjoyment of pinball!

    27
    #82 11 months ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    I'll agree with most of what you say here except that anyone who has essentially defrauded people of $$ should get "cancelled" or suffer much worse legal repercussions. They should also be publically exposed to prevent others from ever falling into the same trap so kudos to those willing to do so.

    SMDH at invoking the tired "cancel culture" trope here. Give me an Fn break. Might as well say locking up bank robbers is "cancel culture." Fairly reasonable (if wildly inaccurate) post until that bullshit came along.

    12
    #83 11 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    SMDH at invoking the tired "cancel culture" trope here. Give me an Fn break. Might as well say locking up bank robbers is "cancel culture." Fairly reasonable post until that bullshit came along.

    4yacns (resized).jpg
    #84 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    It does if you have no personal assets to attach too, asset protected, and your business is the only income generator with assets that are leased.
    While someone is currently making payments and has a plan to do so you don't want to squash that redemption effort.
    Speculate all you want, the facts are the facts here. And you know what they say about "opinions".
    A lawsuit is always an option and if it happens it will come from me and i'll be sure to update all of you with the gory drama details. Lol.
    As someone that represents MANY small businesses, when you have to get to that point you have already lost and the lawyers win.
    Anyone want to start a GoFundme page for litigation expenses to go after Jonathan? I didn't think so.

    You are absolutely 1000 percent wrong. If Jonathan owns a house, it certainly has gone up in value in the past few years. He will have equity right there. In order to collect, you must put pressure on him to pay. When it comes time to face fraud charges and jail time, you won't need a lawyer to collect. He will be begging to pay at that point.

    12
    #85 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.
    Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.
    Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan. I wish i had a dollar for all of the times we discussed litigation, collection attorney's, etc. etc. And now here we are.
    I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years, that came from various distributors, and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.
    He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.
    A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.
    As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.
    Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.
    I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?
    Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?
    Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.
    So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.
    As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.
    Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.
    You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!
    Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

    I'm with you on almost all of this, especially the threatening violence part. Just don't do that. What I don't get is how some people want to paint a picture of a guy who fell on hard times, which that might be true, but it doesn't explain the blatant lies he told about alien and R&M to several people. It also doesn't explain why stern LE's and premiums were ordered but only pro's of other titles were able to be delivered (best case scenario). I'm not a fan of cancel culture either, but I think theres a bit of a difference here. I'm sorry, I just have little to no sympathy for a guy who lied about games and took peoples money on top of what are seemingly shady deals that were actually completed. I do appreciate you shedding a little more light on the situation however. I hope things get straightened out, it does seem like we're on a better path now than in months (and years!) past.

    16
    #86 11 months ago

    There is no explanation that excuses selling and accepting money for "they'll be ready in 30 days" Aliens in 2019. The only possible explanation is that it was a scam.

    11
    #87 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.
    Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.
    Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan. I wish i had a dollar for all of the times we discussed litigation, collection attorney's, etc. etc. And now here we are.
    I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years, that came from various distributors, and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.
    He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.
    A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.
    As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.
    Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.
    I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?
    Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?
    Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.
    So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.
    As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.
    Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.
    You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!
    Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

    Maybe instead of sitting on this and waiting for over a year some good could have been done by exposing this guy sooner?

    10
    #88 11 months ago

    I think I caught up to the other thread...it seems to confirm what I've suspected for a while. There is a bigger scam going on here. Somehow Jonathan was getting these games as he sold me 3 new in box LEs without any issue. About eight months ago I called Stern to inquire about ASOA's status as a distributor. They told me that there was no affiliation and that he was not a distributor. If that was the case, it seems unlikely I could have gotten these games shipped directly from Chicago.

    Because of these Pinside threads I now have a letter from ASOA stating that I will receive payments starting this month. I don't believe it as I believe nothing around this whole situation.

    I have tried to keep quiet out of respect for others who have lost money in this situation. My research has lead me to a similar believe as iceman44...if we push the business into bankruptcy everyone may suffer. I also agree with iceman44 in that there is something to be said for Jonathan's attempt to contact me and start making his debt whole rather than just scurry into the dark like a roach.

    That said, I speculate that if he is in fact an effective con man, it makes much more sense for him to cap this like an oil fire. He may have multiple other big dollar cons going on and he would need to shut this down ASAP.

    At this point I'll wait and see if this first payment comes through, then the second, then the third, etc. If there is any sign of stopping or negotiating I'll just create a FL police report and hit up atty general's office. I like the IRS route and 1099 approach someone else suggested as well. Maybe I'll do that on top of the other two.

    Frankly I would consider it good money spent if I could be responsible for taking a scammer off the street and putting them in jail. After 15 months I consider that money lost and I've just been looking at effective ways to bring him to justice without damaging everyone else's position. Thanks to crwjumper I am pretty confident that I can go full bore now.

    #89 11 months ago
    Quoted from estrader:

    Maybe instead of sitting on this and waiting for over a year some good could have been done by exposing this guy sooner?

    Not trying to snipe at the comment, but if you found out many other people were out huge money and just making waves could cause them to lose it forever, what would you do?

    It is easy to sit back and speculate but the conversations we've all had in private email to this point helped me to stay my hand as I wouldn't want anyone to lose money due to my rogue sense of justice.

    It has been a REALLY hard call for me over the last 15 months or so.

    #90 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    Not trying to snipe at the comment, but if you found out many other people were out huge money and just making waves could cause them to lose it forever, what would you do?
    It is easy to sit back and speculate but the conversations we've all had in private email to this point helped me to stay my hand as I wouldn't want anyone to lose money due to my rogue sense of justice.
    It has been a REALLY hard call for me over the last 15 months or so.

    Wonder how many other people he stole money from in the last year or two once people first realized it was a con and didn’t speak up. I know I was offered games through a friend and just lucky I have good authorized distributors so I didn’t get involved.

    What would change to cause those people to lose huge money now or later? The guy is a con artist!!!

    #91 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    It does if you have no personal assets to attach too, asset protected, and your business is the only income generator with assets that are leased.
    While someone is currently making payments and has a plan to do so you don't want to squash that redemption effort.
    Speculate all you want, the facts are the facts here. And you know what they say about "opinions".
    A lawsuit is always an option and if it happens it will come from me and i'll be sure to update all of you with the gory drama details. Lol.
    As someone that represents MANY small businesses, when you have to get to that point you have already lost and the lawyers win.
    Anyone want to start a GoFundme page for litigation expenses to go after Jonathan? I didn't think so.

    No but I will happily contribute to a fighting fund just for the sport of seeing a prick get his just deserved for taking food and money off the table of people who have worked hard to enjoy their hobby. Would you represent that fund?

    50
    #92 11 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

    What an f'in crock of... One there is no such thing as "cancel culture", it's a made up phrase by intellectually devoid people as a whataboutism for the word we all used to know as "consequences". Two, when you con and defraud people you deserve everything that comes your way. If you don't want that, then I don't know... Maybe... Perhaps... DON'T DEFRAUD AND SCAM PEOPLE...???

    Jeff

    #93 11 months ago
    Quoted from Aniraf:

    I haven't even finished the original thread, but if what crwjumper says is true we can't go around posting details about him and his family. Legal action is the only technical way to handle this. The group of people I have been emailing with are all plotting the most logical progression. I am confident we'll find a way to highlight the crime and use the system to extract some sort of revenge.
    I agree this is good to talk about openly...it just makes sense for us to stay above the belt right now. I've lost a lot of money but I still consider myself fortunate based on how much I could have lost.

    Regardless of what the OP thinks, is there a reason you haven’t contacted the Florida DOJ?

    15
    #94 11 months ago
    Quoted from crwjumper:

    I’m the OP for the original thread. The reason that I requested that it be closed is because several people were posting addresses, a picture of a home, a truck etc. along with suggestions that people take a gang of friends to pay Jonathan a “visit”, suggesting violence.
    My original thread was created for the purpose of making us all aware of what Jonathan had done and as a warning to others to beware. I also wanted to pressure Jonathan to finally pay each of us back. He and I have been communicating since the original thread was open. He is fully aware that if he doesn’t follow through with getting each and every one of us repaid all of the monies owed us in a timely fashion, I will work with all parties involved, his local police, the department of justice and possibly the FBI and he will be arrested.
    This has prompted him to first, pay me a significant amount of the money that he owes me and to provide me with documentation outlining a payment plan for the remainder. He is also contacting all others involved and doing the same. I have been in contact with some of the affected parties and am working as a go-between if they are dissatisfied with what Jonathan is doing for them.
    Another reason I wanted the thread closed is that some were attempting to point fingers at pinball distributors, speculating that they may have been involved with his scheme. To put that speculation to rest, I can tell you that the pins that Jonathan sold me did not all come from one source. Let’s not screw over legitimate distributors by starting a witch hunt that may cause them problems. We don't need to screw up any pinball distributor’s businesses because of one bad actor’s actions.
    I have to say that I was disappointed by some of the attacks that were posted within a thread that I created in an attempt to expose a problem in our community and to help those involved.
    Believe it or not, Jonathan never asked me to delete the post. And I wouldn’t do that even if he paid me twice what he owed me. I am an honorable person attempting to resolve my issue with him and help the others who he has hurt.
    Let’s stop piling on and get this problem resolved. Please be patient and not throw gasoline on a fire.
    I won’t be posting anything else in this thread except for confirmed resolutions when the affected parties are made whole, or conversely, actions taken against Jonathan if he fails to do so.
    Thank you.
    Bill Clement

    Forgive me for saying this but this isn't about your transaction anymore. The reason he was able to do this for so long is because the victims took a partial loss or just gave up and not wanting to start something for a grand or two. When someone scams one, two or twenty people he/she has to also think about the risk....yes, the risk of being outed.

    #95 11 months ago

    The bottom line: take what he is giving you keep up the pressure but take it! This is the only way out that pays out. Everything else is a lost cause financially. Steve, I am glad you got paid man! Good things come to those that are vigilantly patient!

    #96 11 months ago

    To me, the whole "we didn't do anything because we didn't want others to lose money" comes off as 100 percent pure bullshit. It actually makes me curious just how many people were involved with this guy, in a bad way.

    #97 11 months ago
    Quoted from thechakapakuni:

    Regardless of what the OP thinks, is there a reason you haven’t contacted the Florida DOJ?

    Frankly I was scared it would take money from others pockets.

    I have a fear that ASOA bankruptcy would effectively "steal" money from others. Also, I was under the impression that ASOA had stopped selling pins post this issue with myself and a few others. If I had good data, or any of the data laid out in that other post I may have acted differently. You have to understand, I'm thousands of miles away from ASOA...I was trusting what others were telling me and it wasn't just Jonathan.

    On top of that I did confide in three other distributors and two pin manufacturers. I thought we had stopped the burn for lack of better knowledge.

    I haven't seen anyone come forward who was burned post February 2020. Acting on the data I have today, we did actually stop the scam and limit it to a smallish group.

    #98 11 months ago

    Calling the DOJ actually means you have a better chance of getting paid. They’ll trace all his accounts and lock them up. You guys messing around with him is going to get you nothing. I think you’re making a big mistake not contacting them. Based on the BBB, other sites, I think this is going to be much bigger.

    11
    #99 11 months ago
    Quoted from jandrea95:

    To me, the whole "we didn't do anything because we didn't want others to lose money" comes off as 100 percent pure bullshit. It actually makes me curious just how many people were involved with this guy, in a bad way.

    Well he seems to have some cheerleaders, that's for sure. In both threads.

    Oh what a nice guy! Nothing but good deals from him! I hope he can pull through this!

    What a load of shit.

    #100 11 months ago
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