Quoted from cosmokramer:

This is why the thread should not have been locked.
This guy knew he owed you $ and would have never contacted you if this thread didnt exist

Quoted from snaroff:

That's why, ultimately, the manufacturers need to take some ownership for the "system" that enabled JD/ASOA.

Y

Quoted from Palmer:

That's where you lost me dude. If you can't figure out who is lying then I don't think you will get a refund. Why do manufacturers now have to chase down each scammer? Spooky did you a favor by doing your own due diligence.

Quoted from snaroff:

The challenge I've had with this fiasco is determining who is lying...JD/ASOA or the distributors! That's why, ultimately, the manufacturers need to take some ownership for the "system" that enabled JD/ASOA.

Quoted from Elvishasleft:

Hate to break it to you but in the world of "grey market" trading there is often a blind eye turned to what happens after the initial from factory sale.
For a manufacturer once they get paid for the goods and its "in the channel" they dont really have much control over what happens with it.... or generally care for that matter.
Grey market trading isnt illegal at all but it can and does violate distribution agreements...

Quoted from bobukcat:

This is completely incorrect for a whole lot of products, particularly anything generally sold to enterprise / businesses as opposed to consumers. I've worked for manufacturers in various tech industries for most of my life and they absolutely care about what happens once the product enters distribution. This has implications for service (manufacturer will not offer service / repair of grey market items), ability to get software upgrades, add licenses for functionality, etc. You may be correct about how the Pinball industry works but to broadly apply to that to all manufacturing is inaccurate.

Quoted from nate1981s:

don't mean to be negative but if this guy has a LLC and business license how can you expect to get anything back using the legal system? Think about predator. Kevin did not even have a business license or LLC. There were miles of documents and statements that self implicated himself and in the end all of the legal fees amounted to nothing! How is Kevin not in jail? Stealing IP and defrauding people out of $500k or whatever it was? All without a business or LCC license. ASOA might be found liable and a lean put on them that no one can ever collect as the business has no assets. I think these clowns know this. I see it all the time with contractors. Clawback is rare from what I know to the real owner (Jonathan). Can a Pinside

Quoted from cosmokramer:

This is why the thread should not have been locked.
This guy knew he owed you $ and would have never contacted you if this thread didnt exist

Quoted from snaroff:

On 5/8/20, I insisted Jonathan provide the game # ASAP after speaking with Kayte Emery, CFO Spooky. Considering 6 months had past since taking my money, getting my game # was pretty basic information. He never provided it, claiming it would damage his distributor relationship.
On 5/10/20, Kayte Emery personally contacted all Spooky Distributors and they all said no transaction was done with JD/ASOA.
The challenge I've had with this fiasco is determining who is lying...JD/ASOA or the distributors! That's why, ultimately, the manufacturers need to take some ownership for the "system" that enabled JD/ASOA.

Yep, and worst yet, JD/ASOA still claims he is my "buddy"! Crazy shit.

Quoted from crwjumper:

I’m the OP for the original thread. The reason that I requested that it be closed is because several people were posting addresses, a picture of a home, a truck etc. along with suggestions that people take a gang of friends to pay Jonathan a “visit”, suggesting violence.
My original thread was created for the purpose of making us all aware of what Jonathan had done and as a warning to others to beware. I also wanted to pressure Jonathan to finally pay each of us back. He and I have been communicating since the original thread was open. He is fully aware that if he doesn’t follow through with getting each and every one of us repaid all of the monies owed us in a timely fashion, I will work with all parties involved, his local police, the department of justice and possibly the FBI and he will be arrested.
This has prompted him to first, pay me a significant amount of the money that he owes me and to provide me with documentation outlining a payment plan for the remainder. He is also contacting all others involved and doing the same. I have been in contact with some of the affected parties and am working as a go-between if they are dissatisfied with what Jonathan is doing for them.
Another reason I wanted the thread closed is that some were attempting to point fingers at pinball distributors, speculating that they may have been involved with his scheme. To put that speculation to rest, I can tell you that the pins that Jonathan sold me did not all come from one source. Let’s not screw over legitimate distributors by starting a witch hunt that may cause them problems. We don't need to screw up any pinball distributor’s businesses because of one bad actor’s actions.
I have to say that I was disappointed by some of the attacks that were posted within a thread that I created in an attempt to expose a problem in our community and to help those involved.
Believe it or not, Jonathan never asked me to delete the post. And I wouldn’t do that even if he paid me twice what he owed me. I am an honorable person attempting to resolve my issue with him and help the others who he has hurt.
Let’s stop piling on and get this problem resolved. Please be patient and not throw gasoline on a fire.
I won’t be posting anything else in this thread except for confirmed resolutions when the affected parties are made whole, or conversely, actions taken against Jonathan if he fails to do so.
Thank you.
Bill Clement

Quoted from crwjumper:

I’m the OP for the original thread. The reason that I requested that it be closed is because several people were posting addresses, a picture of a home, a truck etc. along with suggestions that people take a gang of friends to pay Jonathan a “visit”, suggesting violence.
My original thread was created for the purpose of making us all aware of what Jonathan had done and as a warning to others to beware. I also wanted to pressure Jonathan to finally pay each of us back. He and I have been communicating since the original thread was open. He is fully aware that if he doesn’t follow through with getting each and every one of us repaid all of the monies owed us in a timely fashion, I will work with all parties involved, his local police, the department of justice and possibly the FBI and he will be arrested.
This has prompted him to first, pay me a significant amount of the money that he owes me and to provide me with documentation outlining a payment plan for the remainder. He is also contacting all others involved and doing the same. I have been in contact with some of the affected parties and am working as a go-between if they are dissatisfied with what Jonathan is doing for them.
Another reason I wanted the thread closed is that some were attempting to point fingers at pinball distributors, speculating that they may have been involved with his scheme. To put that speculation to rest, I can tell you that the pins that Jonathan sold me did not all come from one source. Let’s not screw over legitimate distributors by starting a witch hunt that may cause them problems. We don't need to screw up any pinball distributor’s businesses because of one bad actor’s actions.
I have to say that I was disappointed by some of the attacks that were posted within a thread that I created in an attempt to expose a problem in our community and to help those involved.
Believe it or not, Jonathan never asked me to delete the post. And I wouldn’t do that even if he paid me twice what he owed me. I am an honorable person attempting to resolve my issue with him and help the others who he has hurt.
Let’s stop piling on and get this problem resolved. Please be patient and not throw gasoline on a fire.
I won’t be posting anything else in this thread except for confirmed resolutions when the affected parties are made whole, or conversely, actions taken against Jonathan if he fails to do so.
Thank you.
Bill Clement

Quoted from jcg9998:

It's not game over. If you commit fraud, bankruptcy does not protect you.

Quoted from iceman44:

Great post Bill and thx for posting it.
The people that are affected by this realize the only way it gets resolved in OUR favor is if there is NO bankruptcy filing. If it ultimately comes to that then so be it but you and some others have already recouped significant sums of money and i'd like the rest of folks to be made whole as well.
I am personally patiently waiting in hopes that others that need it more can get repaid. I take some responsibility for my own actions.
Do we have the ability to file suit and force him into bankruptcy today? Absolutely. Who does that help get repaid while the guy is actively making payments. That would be stupid and foolish!
I get why the mob would like to see nothing more than a full blown take down and have the guy thrown in jail. It makes for great drama and sport.
Just so we ALL know, and yes it will be repeated over and over again by the mob, don't EVER buy pinball machines from Jonathan and ASOA!
For the record, the many pinball machines i received from Jonathan came from no ONE particular distributor and it's totally irrelevant for that matter.
Put a sticky on the front page as a PSA if you like.

Quoted from snaroff:

Good news/progress.
JD/ASOA has finally paid me the $1,750 balance owed The difference between the Rick and Morty never delivered (Invoice dated/paid 12/16/19) and the Avengers Infinity Quest Pro delivered on 10/13 (which I sold recently for $5,500). I am now WHOLE!
Thanks to crwjumper and mr68 for helping get this balance paid!

Quoted from 0geist0:Deleted post

Quoted from Haymaker:

Care to fill us in on where the many pinball machines you bought from him did come from? I think we're all dying to know if it was shady gray market deals, under the table distributor agreements, or a simple case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I'm not saying you're wrong here, but this has a lot of similarities to the whole TBL fiasco where it was "please don't press any charges because then nobody gets anything". I want everyone to get what is owed to them, but I also want to see scammers removed from the scene completely.

Quoted from hockeymag8:

would this be cool if everyone was made whole and Johnathan turned out to be a great and trusted person to work with down the road.

Quoted from Aniraf:

Hello everyone...I am yet another person in the "Jonathan took my money" group. I didn't even see the original post but I did just receive the first phone call from Jonathan in over a year. He seems to be shitting his pants over the posts. He told me that I am one of 12 remaining customers not compensated for what we purchased.
The "promise" was that I would receive an email today detailing a payment plan which will repay me for my original purchase amount. Based on verbal details of his plan it would take him roughly 13 months to complete.
I can't say that I trust any of this, but if he sends it over I will gladly start accepting money right away. I would love to get back some of my lost dollars.

Quoted from iceman44:

So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.
Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.
Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan.
I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.
He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.
A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.
As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.
Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.
I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?
Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?
Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.
So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.
As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.
Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.
You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!
Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. So there you go.

Quoted from Hemispheres:

hmmmm.... Here's a thought. Buy your games from a AUTHORIZED dealer..... end of story.

Quoted from bobukcat:

I'll agree with most of what you say here except that anyone who has essentially defrauded people of $$ should get "cancelled" or suffer much worse legal repercussions. They should also be publically exposed to prevent others from ever falling into the same trap so kudos to those willing to do so.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

SMDH at invoking the tired "cancel culture" trope here. Give me an Fn break. Might as well say locking up bank robbers is "cancel culture." Fairly reasonable post until that bullshit came along.

Quoted from iceman44:

It does if you have no personal assets to attach too, asset protected, and your business is the only income generator with assets that are leased.
While someone is currently making payments and has a plan to do so you don't want to squash that redemption effort.
Speculate all you want, the facts are the facts here. And you know what they say about "opinions".
A lawsuit is always an option and if it happens it will come from me and i'll be sure to update all of you with the gory drama details. Lol.
As someone that represents MANY small businesses, when you have to get to that point you have already lost and the lawyers win.
Anyone want to start a GoFundme page for litigation expenses to go after Jonathan? I didn't think so.

Quoted from iceman44:

So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.
Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.
Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan. I wish i had a dollar for all of the times we discussed litigation, collection attorney's, etc. etc. And now here we are.
I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years, that came from various distributors, and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.
He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.
A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.
As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.
Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.
I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?
Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?
Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.
So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.
As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.
Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.
You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!
Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

Quoted from iceman44:So far removed from the "TBL fiasco". And last time i checked they are in the process of making everyone whole and building games when all was thought to be lost. So that would be a terrible analogy.
Yes i was in on that game too but got a refund when "Phil gate" happened. I'm just happy for everybody that is finally get taken care of YEARS LATER.
Bill, Brian, Jeb, myself and others know the VERY LONG and full blown story, where we have been and where we are today. Representations and promises made and then NOT kept by Jonathan. I wish i had a dollar for all of the times we discussed litigation, collection attorney's, etc. etc. And now here we are.
I had purchased at least 6 games from him over the last few years, that came from various distributors, and i know plenty of others that received games from him successfully for a long time. Then the wheels began to fall off in late 2019 and early 2020 and Covid provided a dagger to the amusement business amongst many other businesses worldwide. That's no secret.
He got himself in bind and the business went to shit.
A fraudulent POS like SkitB simply comes in and then disappears. A lawsuit is filed, time and money is wasted unless it just simply makes you feel better.
As for "wanting scammers removed from the scene" well he is already REMOVED permanently from the "pinball scene" and is trying to rebuild his amusement operations post Covid.
Will he come through and redeem himself? He has already done so with some people. That's a FACT.
I'm his biggest CREDITOR. Is it reasonable to believe, i know it's hard for some people, that i could possibly have considered ALL of my options over the past year?
Is it possible that i still retain ALL of my potential remedies?
Is it possible that a healthier business that is recovering post Covid has more to go get? Dutch and TBL.
So when all of you judge and criticize, NONE of you are sitting in my seat or the seat of anyone else that is owed money and how it happened or why.
As we have had DOZENS of conversations over the past year between creditors, each and every one has the right to choose his own path.
Threats to his personal well being, his family, his business etc. is simply NOT gonna get it done and nor should it be acceptable.
You think the people that are out money are just plain stupid? That's ok, like i said, i look in the mirror every day and take responsibility for my own actions and ultimately will respond accordingly on MY TERMS and what is best for MYSELF!
Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

Quoted from estrader:

Maybe instead of sitting on this and waiting for over a year some good could have been done by exposing this guy sooner?

Quoted from Aniraf:

Not trying to snipe at the comment, but if you found out many other people were out huge money and just making waves could cause them to lose it forever, what would you do?
It is easy to sit back and speculate but the conversations we've all had in private email to this point helped me to stay my hand as I wouldn't want anyone to lose money due to my rogue sense of justice.
It has been a REALLY hard call for me over the last 15 months or so.

Quoted from iceman44:

It does if you have no personal assets to attach too, asset protected, and your business is the only income generator with assets that are leased.
While someone is currently making payments and has a plan to do so you don't want to squash that redemption effort.
Speculate all you want, the facts are the facts here. And you know what they say about "opinions".
A lawsuit is always an option and if it happens it will come from me and i'll be sure to update all of you with the gory drama details. Lol.
As someone that represents MANY small businesses, when you have to get to that point you have already lost and the lawyers win.
Anyone want to start a GoFundme page for litigation expenses to go after Jonathan? I didn't think so.

Quoted from iceman44:

Thus, i choose also to NOT partake in this lynch mob cancel culture world that we live in today. Threads like these, once everyone has already said their peace does NOTHING but contribute to further anger, hate and division within the community. So there you go.

Quoted from Aniraf:

I haven't even finished the original thread, but if what crwjumper says is true we can't go around posting details about him and his family. Legal action is the only technical way to handle this. The group of people I have been emailing with are all plotting the most logical progression. I am confident we'll find a way to highlight the crime and use the system to extract some sort of revenge.
I agree this is good to talk about openly...it just makes sense for us to stay above the belt right now. I've lost a lot of money but I still consider myself fortunate based on how much I could have lost.

Quoted from crwjumper:

I’m the OP for the original thread. The reason that I requested that it be closed is because several people were posting addresses, a picture of a home, a truck etc. along with suggestions that people take a gang of friends to pay Jonathan a “visit”, suggesting violence.
My original thread was created for the purpose of making us all aware of what Jonathan had done and as a warning to others to beware. I also wanted to pressure Jonathan to finally pay each of us back. He and I have been communicating since the original thread was open. He is fully aware that if he doesn’t follow through with getting each and every one of us repaid all of the monies owed us in a timely fashion, I will work with all parties involved, his local police, the department of justice and possibly the FBI and he will be arrested.
This has prompted him to first, pay me a significant amount of the money that he owes me and to provide me with documentation outlining a payment plan for the remainder. He is also contacting all others involved and doing the same. I have been in contact with some of the affected parties and am working as a go-between if they are dissatisfied with what Jonathan is doing for them.
Another reason I wanted the thread closed is that some were attempting to point fingers at pinball distributors, speculating that they may have been involved with his scheme. To put that speculation to rest, I can tell you that the pins that Jonathan sold me did not all come from one source. Let’s not screw over legitimate distributors by starting a witch hunt that may cause them problems. We don't need to screw up any pinball distributor’s businesses because of one bad actor’s actions.
I have to say that I was disappointed by some of the attacks that were posted within a thread that I created in an attempt to expose a problem in our community and to help those involved.
Believe it or not, Jonathan never asked me to delete the post. And I wouldn’t do that even if he paid me twice what he owed me. I am an honorable person attempting to resolve my issue with him and help the others who he has hurt.
Let’s stop piling on and get this problem resolved. Please be patient and not throw gasoline on a fire.
I won’t be posting anything else in this thread except for confirmed resolutions when the affected parties are made whole, or conversely, actions taken against Jonathan if he fails to do so.
Thank you.
Bill Clement

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Regardless of what the OP thinks, is there a reason you haven’t contacted the Florida DOJ?

Quoted from jandrea95:

To me, the whole "we didn't do anything because we didn't want others to lose money" comes off as 100 percent pure bullshit. It actually makes me curious just how many people were involved with this guy, in a bad way.