(Topic ID: 288096)

Part 2 - Beware of Jonathan Demare / ASOA


By Mr68

9 days ago



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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by crwjumper
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    There are 504 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 11.
    #451 4 days ago
    Quoted from holminone:

    And for the record. Snaroff is arguably the smartest most accomplished individual on pinside. No question. I say it with all seriousness. I would carefully rethink your position if you found yourself on the opposite side of his position.

    Thanks, Don. I appreciate your support and hope you are loving Jurassic Park! Nothing better than having other players/collectors who know me and have done business with me vouch for me! The lack of empathy in social media is depressing sometimes. Helps to occasionally bump into someone that actually knows who you are and what you stand for.

    #452 4 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Unless you have been involved, contacted, directly spoke to, or made a purchase yourself, your suppositions
    are placed in front of those with actual experience over several years.

    I know people dont read everything on here but yes I have had personal experience and know many others that have and their stories as well.

    So if the assumption is I am just talking out of my ass we can drop that.

    #453 4 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    I know people dont read everything on here but yes I have had personal experience and know many others that have and their stories as well.
    So if the assumption is I am just talking out of my ass we can drop that.

    Did you not receive a game after sending money?
    What was your personal experience?

    I did read the threads, but I dont remember everyones personal involvement.

    #454 4 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Did you not receive a game after sending money?
    What was your personal experience?
    I did read the threads, but I dont remember everyones personal involvement.

    Nope never bought a game because he tried to bait and switch me....

    And unlike others I actually called manufacturer and asked if he was authorized to sell and was told no so I walked.

    This is like two years ago so maybe no one else made any calls or bothered to check the website or cared?

    #455 4 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Nope never bought a game because he tried to bait and switch me....
    And unlike others I actually called manufacturer and asked if he was authorized to sell and was told no so I walked.
    This is like two years ago so maybe no one else made any calls or bothered to check the website or cared?

    Fair enough.

    When I asked the manufacturer, we discussed in detail. This was 3 years ago. Things changed.
    But what Im confused about is what you feel is the way business should be handled from the manufacturer.

    Are you suggesting that the price is controlled 100%? Or should distributors have the ability to discount either directly off MSRP,
    or add ons, like delivery costs, extras, etc?

    Sure everyone is responsible for our own actions, I am just unsure what you are disagreeing with?

    I too, chose not to conduct business, but for different reasons.

    Someone losing money due to fraud? No one underselling? I just dont know......No one is a victim?

    #456 4 days ago

    There were more than 12 people owed money, but supposedly the small fish were satisfied before the number twelve was announced. It would be helpful if we had a list of the Dirty Dozen (initials or screen names) and the amounts owed. This might confirm whether that list was complete and included everybody owed money, as many have their doubts.

    We know of 2 that have exited the list that were owed under $2k each and paid, so there should only be ten names remaining. One of which is Ice, and he is owed about $45k iirc and that was supposedly one of the highest creditors. One was original Op and he was partial paid and maybe still owed $15k (???) One is owed a replacement pin for his busted machine and that may be about $8k. Assuming the remaining 7 are owed $10k each, picture emerges showing approx $150k is still owed.

    But as with all scams, the selling never stops. As of today, ASOA is open for business and you can call them or email for a price on your favorite pinball machine. It was reported in this thread that JD is not a distributor for any pinball manufacturer.

    9A74947E-EE94-460E-AA9C-08FF4FB46D4C.jpeg

    #457 4 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Fair enough.

    Someone losing money due to fraud? No one underselling? I just dont know......No one is a victim?

    It sucks people had issues...

    however the info has also been out there for two years and people kept buying because they were getting deals or things they wanted.

    Thats where I have issue with the victim mentality.

    Otherwise yah I am just trying to stick up for the little guy a bit since they cant say shit or do anything here...

    As I said earlier if you are selling something legit and someone comes in and games the system and takes your business its not a good feeling... its worse when you are told to basically shut up about it by those who are supposed to look out for your interests.

    #458 4 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Or...Stern could just stop the horizontal price fixing and have their distributors compete with one another like they did until relatively recently so the consumer can negotiate better deals for themselves...

    Race to the bottom is not the scenario you want when everyone is already complaining about the role the seller plays in setup and post sales.

    #459 4 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Are you suggesting that the price is controlled 100%? Or should distributors have the ability to discount either directly off MSRP,
    or add ons, like delivery costs, extras, etc?
    Sure everyone is responsible for our own actions, I am just unsure what you are disagreeing with?
    I too, chose not to conduct business, but for different reasons.
    Someone losing money due to fraud? No one underselling? I just dont know......No one is a victim?

    They will typically legally bind retail prices and also define retail vs wholesale. They do this largely to maintain consumer confidence. That said often the grey area exists between the definitions of retail and wholesale and I seriously doubt anyone in this conversation has the ability to provide objective facts about any pinball manufacturers' policies.

    #460 4 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    It sucks people had issues...
    however the info has also been out there for two years and people kept buying because they were getting deals or things they wanted.
    Thats where I have issue with the victim mentality.

    They are victims, the mentality is earned. And "getting deals" and things people wanted is kind of the whole thing on pinside marketplace.

    #461 4 days ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Thanks, Don. I appreciate your support and hope you are loving Jurassic Park! Nothing better than having other players/collectors who know me and have done business with me vouch for me! The lack of empathy in social media is depressing sometimes. Helps to occasionally bump into someone that actually knows who you are and what you stand for.

    Anytime. I got your back. And Jurassic Park is fabulous! Loving it- it’s even gotten my wife to play (she actively goes to the machine turns it on and plays for sometimes as much as 45 minutes...). Your boy’s perspective on Tron and your recent comments on r&m and selling your DI has got me thinking...

    #462 4 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Regarding unfair market situation, either a manufacturer has 100% control of the retail price, and Polices it.
    This would bring antitrust laws in possibly, see how this happened with Rolex.

    Several years ago, Ping Golf Company challenged a 70-80 year old court ruling about controlling retail prices. They won. They now tell their retailers what they can sell a new Ping product for. They even send out 'secret shoppers' to police their accounts. The accounts that wouldn't follow the policy were shut down.

    #463 4 days ago
    Quoted from dhard:

    What is a good price on a decent condition used golf cart set up for golf ( not looking for any kind of custom, lift kits ,back seat etc ) think I'll use my pin money towards a cart now after all that's going on in this thread

    I just sent you a PM.

    #464 4 days ago
    Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

    But as with all scams, the selling never stops. As of today, ASOA is open for business and you can call them or email for a price on your favorite pinball machine. It was reported in this thread that JD is not a distributor for any pinball manufacturer.
    [quoted image]

    Yikes. Hopefully people are smart enough to google ASOA before sending money!!

    #465 3 days ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    Yikes. Hopefully people are smart enough to google ASOA before sending money!!

    I sure hope so too.

    #466 3 days ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    Yikes. Hopefully people are smart enough to google ASOA before sending money!!

    The general rule is get scammed first, google later.

    At the very least, people who are owed money here should be happy he's still soliciting funds with which he may scam from new people so he can pay them back.

    #467 3 days ago

    What ever happened to Pezpunk?

    10
    #468 3 days ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    What ever happened to Pezpunk?

    he swore off the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is pinside.

    #469 3 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Victims? thats a bit much...
    People made the choice to buy from this source knowing they were not authorized to sell to them. Over and over again.
    They took that risk (even prepaying) for whatever reason... cheaper game, unavailable game on and on.
    Taking a risk and getting burned doesnt make you a victim.
    Victims in this case are the people playing by the rules in an unfair market situation.

    Dude you’re wrong. I bought a used game from him and got the bait and switch. I wasn’t trying to cheap out and screw the real distros or something. Just give up. In this (and likely other cases), you’re just wrong.

    #470 2 days ago
    Quoted from paynemic:

    Dude you’re wrong. I bought a used game from him and got the bait and switch. I wasn’t trying to cheap out and screw the real distros or something. Just give up. In this (and likely other cases), you’re just wrong.

    lol... guess I hit a nerve with the cheap comment.

    I am talking about NIB games specifically.... dude wants to sell used games have at it.

    The guy got a foothold in the marketplace by coming in and offering much lower prices than any authorized dealer could or would on NIB.

    He even advertised he had the best prices, free shipping, best warranty etc etc

    Even after the info came out that he wasnt authorized to sell NIB games people kept buying from him... why? because they saved money. period.

    #471 2 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    lol... guess I hit a nerve with the cheap comment.
    I am talking about NIB games specifically.... dude wants to sell used games have at it.
    The guy got a foothold in the marketplace by coming in and offering much lower prices than any authorized dealer could or would on NIB.
    He even advertised he had the best prices, free shipping, best warranty etc etc
    Even after the info came out that he wasnt authorized to sell NIB games people kept buying from him... why? because they saved money. period.

    "I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me.", - Rick

    #472 2 days ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    "I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me.", - Rick

    Im sorry that I dont much care.

    You guys want to side with the guy that ripped you off on stuff go ahead.

    15
    #473 2 days ago

    I liked it better when we were bashing Jonathan and not each other.

    #474 2 days ago
    Quoted from jamesmc:

    I liked it better when we were bashing Jonathan and not each other.

    me too... Im trying but every time I do people get offended.

    Its 2021 so I get it no one can admit they made a mistake or a bad decision anymore...

    Sorry i took you out of your safe space, I will stop.

    #475 2 days ago

    Adults using the term “safe space”. It is 2021 indeed.

    Good luck to all that got scammed. Hope you get back everything due.

    #476 2 days ago
    Quoted from jamesmc:

    I liked it better when we were bashing Jonathan and not each other.

    People who have done business with JD for years and were directly effected have all the information they need to "bash" JD/ASOA.

    Calling the victims "cheap" day-in, day-out is incredibly childish and doesn't add any value. Just pathetic.

    Quoted from PinballNewb:

    Adults using the term “safe space”. It is 2021 indeed.
    Good luck to all that got scammed. Hope you get back everything due.

    Amen.

    #477 2 days ago

    Snaroff I just want to say I think you're a good guy and I'm glad you're here.

    #478 2 days ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    but Elvishasleft has contributed little to this thread.

    Or any other he's posted in lol

    #479 2 days ago
    Quoted from dhard:

    Or any other he's posted in lol

    sure thing... Sorry, I am trying to stop this from ever happening again.

    Just not just that interested in looking out for the immediate needs of those who bought from someone who they knew was gaming the system.

    If he never defaulted anyone it would still be going on and the "victimized" would still be buying from him and not caring where the games come from.

    Way to support your authorized dealers...

    14
    #480 2 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    sure thing... Sorry, I am trying to stop this from ever happening again.
    Just not just that interested in looking out for the immediate needs of those who bought from someone who they knew was gaming the system.
    If he never defaulted anyone it would still be going on and the "victimized" would still be buying from him and not caring where the games come from.
    Way to support your authorized dealers...

    You’re a mystery, my friend. Your celebratory emoji speaks to the glee you seem to have in this thread. Is it glee for others suffering because they got screwed by not supporting certain authorized dealers? Is it glee because you scored a zinger on some people who got screwed over? Your whole tone has no place in a thread like this.

    I guess you’re keeping the topic alive, and that is helping keep light on this subject, so that’s something. But you just don’t seem to be able to be nice. If I were an “authorized dealer” like you seem to hero worship so much, I wouldn’t want you as my cheerleader.

    #481 2 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Way to support your authorized dealers...

    Authorized dealers sold JD/ASOA the machines in the first place...the NIB games I received were not stolen or noteworthy.

    Go read my Profile reviews...flawless. JD/ASOA's Profile reviews were even better in the timeframe I did business with him!

    I see you don't even have Profile reviews. No collection. Just joined Pinside less than 1 year ago. I'll quote Rick once again..."I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me."

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Sorry, I am trying to stop this from ever happening again.

    Hilarious! paynemic has your number...just read his post.

    #482 2 days ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Authorized dealers sold JD/ASOA the machines in the first place...the NIB games I received were not stolen or noteworthy.
    Go read my Profile reviews...flawless. JD/ASOA's Profile reviews were even better in the timeframe I did business with him!
    I see you don't even have Profile reviews. No collection. Just joined Pinside less than 1 year ago. I'll quote Rick once again..."I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me."

    Hilarious! paynemic has your number...just read his post.

    I have never used the Block Pinsiders function before this tread but have "Ignored user comment" for many now. Life is too short for such negativity.

    #483 2 days ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Authorized dealers sold JD/ASOA the machines in the first place...the NIB games I received were not stolen or noteworthy.
    Go read my Profile reviews...flawless. JD/ASOA's Profile reviews were even better in the timeframe I did business with him!
    I see you don't even have Profile reviews. No collection. Just joined Pinside less than 1 year ago. I'll quote Rick once again..."I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me."

    Hilarious! paynemic has your number...just read his post.

    I think his point is Jonathan got those games for less than street price and took sales away from other authorized distributors you would have used.

    #484 2 days ago
    Quoted from estrader:

    I think his point is Jonathan got those games for less than street price and took sales away from other authorized distributors you would have used.

    Highly doubtful

    #485 1 day ago
    Quoted from estrader:

    I think his point is Jonathan got those games for less than street price and took sales away from other authorized distributors you would have used.

    Trust me, I understand.

    My point is it boils down to *authorized Stern dealers* taking sales from other *authorized Stern dealers*. My 4 NIB Stern purchases were totally legit. The relationship between JD/ASOA and the *authorized Stern dealers* is none of my business. I've supported a lot of *authorized Stern dealers* over the years and JD/ASOA was delivering for me. Unfortunately, my Rick and Morty transaction was a train wreck...fully chronicled here, for those who think I'm in anyway defending/excusing JD/ASOA (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804).

    #486 1 day ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Authorized dealers sold JD/ASOA the machines in the first place...the NIB games I received were not stolen or noteworthy.
    Go read my Profile reviews...flawless. JD/ASOA's Profile reviews were even better in the timeframe I did business with him!
    I see you don't even have Profile reviews. No collection. Just joined Pinside less than 1 year ago. I'll quote Rick once again..."I'm sorry, but your opinion means very little to me."

    Hilarious! paynemic has your number...just read his post.

    Correct... but missing a main point here. I have never said they were stolen but not noteworthy?

    Authorized dealers who were not supposed to sell him machines sold him machines which he then used to undersell legit dealers.

    Anyone who bought from him either

    A. didnt bother to check that he was not an authorized dealer for what they were buying (pretty easy to do on the websites or by calling)

    B. did not care that he was not an authorized dealer for what they were buying because they got something they wanted or a better price.

    You bought from someone who was gaming the system and ultimately gamed you... and the info has been out there for two years.

    I am truly sorry people had issues but to me it would have been pretty easy to avoid if you bought from an authorized dealer.

    #487 1 day ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    Trust me, I understand.
    My point is it boils down to *authorized Stern dealers* taking sales from other *authorized Stern dealers*. The 4 NIB Stern purchases were totally legit. The relationship between JD/ASOA and the *authorized Stern dealers* is none of my business. I've supported a lot of *authorized Stern dealers* over the years and JD/ASOA was delivering for me. Unfortunately, my Rick and Morty transaction was a train wreck...fully chronicled here, for those who think I'm in anyway defending/excusing JD/ASOA (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804).

    This is my point.

    You think its " totally legit" that some big distribs and dealers were violating their agreements and selling someone games out side their agreements so they could manipulate the market

    I do not... I dont think in any business its OK for the big guys to do whatever they want and violate their agreements at the expense of everyone else in the system.

    Even the manufacturers had to disagree at some point because they stopped it from happening.

    #488 1 day ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    This is my point.
    You think its " totally legit" that some big distribs and dealers were violating their agreements and selling someone games out side their agreements so they could manipulate the market
    I do not... I dont think in any business its OK for the big guys to do whatever they want and violate their agreements at the expense of everyone else in the system.
    Even the manufacturers had to disagree at some point because they stopped it from happening.

    It's not my job to police who distributors sell to. I don't have access to their legal agreements (with Stern) and have no inside information on how the pinball distribution channels work. None. If the distributors weren't honoring their legal agreement, Stern is in the best position to slap them upside the head. Not my job!

    I'm glad you are such an empathetic person and want to help pinball distributors cleanup their acts and help people like me avoid bad transactions. Don't know what you do for a living...maybe you should go work for Ralph Nader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader).

    #489 1 day ago
    Quoted from Dexter:

    I have never used the Block Pinsiders function before this tread but have "Ignored user comment" for many now. Life is too short for such negativity.

    I got booted off the original thread for pointing out how nasty everyone was getting.

    #490 1 day ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    It's not my job to police who distributors sell to. I don't have access to their legal agreements (with Stern) and have no inside information on how the pinball distribution channels work. None. If the distributors weren't honoring their legal agreement, Stern is in the best position to slap them upside the head. Not my job!
    I'm glad you are such an empathetic person and want to help pinball distributors cleanup their acts and help people like me avoid bad transactions. Don't know what you do for a living...maybe you should go work for Ralph Nader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader).

    I dont think its your job either. I know people dont care where they buy games from as long as they get what they want.

    In this case your issues proved why people should be buying only from authorized dealers.

    Buy from someone gaming the system and they may game you also.

    32
    #491 1 day ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    The ones who need to have a chat with the manufacturers are the authorized dealers who had biz taken off their plate by "unfair competition" and market manipulation.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    As I said.... if I was an authorized dealer I would be very curious to ask how this is allowed to happen?

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Maybe everyone on pinside should call and ask how exactly they can buy games super cheap direct since it seems so easy to do.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    allowing an unauthorized person to buy through authorized channels and flip games as a broker.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    The ones who need to have a chat with the manufacturers are the authorized dealers who had biz taken off their plate by "unfair competition" and market manipulation.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    It is up to the manufacturer and brand holders to hold those they sell to accountable to their agreements and to call them out on selling outside of them.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    dont be a cheap fuck and support authorized dealers. Even if it costs a little more.
    they are all listed on the manufacturers websites
    If you cheap out to save a buck buying NIB from some random dude you get what you get.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Dude was selling NIB cheaper than any authorized dealer was willing or able to... why do you think people bought from him?

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    People made the choice to buy from this source knowing they were not authorized to sell to them. Over and over again.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    unlike others I actually called manufacturer and asked if he was authorized to sell and was told no so I walked.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Even after the info came out that he wasnt authorized to sell NIB games people kept buying from him... why? because they saved money. period.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Way to support your authorized dealers...

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Authorized dealers who were not supposed to sell him machines sold him machines which he then used to undersell legit dealers.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    I dont think in any business its OK for the big guys to do whatever they want and violate their agreements at the expense of everyone else in the system.

    Enough already

    #492 1 day ago
    Quoted from twenty84:

    Enough already

    lol.. I agree.

    13
    #493 1 day ago
    Quoted from twenty84:

    Enough already

    This is all see now

    Capture (resized).JPG
    #494 1 day ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    I dont think its your job either.

    Thank you.

    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Buy from someone gaming the system and they may game you also.

    Again, since my NIB Stern games were coming from legit distributors and I was getting great support (from BOTH JD/ASOA and the distributors), it was totally unclear how the system was being "gamed". I thought the minor price concessions were simply the result of higher sales throughput (i.e. buy more, pay less).

    Again, distributor agreements and culture surrounding this business is totally opaque to me. I've been buying NIB games since 2004 and don't deal with "shady" people. This idea that we all should have known the system was being gamed is ludicrous.

    I understand you have 20/20 hindsight, and admire your tenacity, but the sum of all your "help" doesn't add up to much.

    -3
    #495 1 day ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    I understand you have 20/20 hindsight, and admire your tenacity, but the sum of all your "help" doesn't add up to much.

    I am just saying things small dealers would like to and cant because they will be told to shut up as they were for two years.

    Hopefully that has changed a bit now or people know to at least check out where they are buying from.

    I am again sorry you had issues.

    #496 1 day ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    I am just saying things small dealers would like to and cant because they will be told to shut up as they were for two years.
    Hopefully that has changed a bit now or people know to at least check out where they are buying from.
    I am again sorry you had issues.

    What's the next step up after broken record? We need to nickname this dude.

    #497 1 day ago
    Quoted from Dooskie:

    Several years ago, Ping Golf Company challenged a 70-80 year old court ruling about controlling retail prices. They won. They now tell their retailers what they can sell a new Ping product for. They even send out 'secret shoppers' to police their accounts. The accounts that wouldn't follow the policy were shut down.

    Usually it control of advertised pricing, not actual selling price

    #498 1 day ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Sorry i took you out of your safe space, I will stop.

    Please stop I triple dog dare you

    #499 1 day ago

    So elvishasleft , can you tell us about “Authorized Dealers”?

    #500 1 day ago

    Like a WH press secretary, time to circle back to original topic...

    Did everyone who was owed monies get paid? Or are there still lingering balances? Payment plans in the process and being met?

    Just curious, because I got sucked into this soap opera on Day 1.

    Thanks,

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