(Topic ID: 172396)

Paragon Feature lights not working

By Topcard

7 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by BigAl56
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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Early Bally Rect SW ILL2 (resized).png
Early Bally Rect SW ILL (resized).png
meter 20VDC (resized).png
#1 7 years ago

I swapped fully populated playfields on my Paragon and since I did, the feature lights don't work. They did on the playfield I swapped out. I really don't know if they did when the "new" playfield was in the other game, but I don't think so. I have a new bridge rectifier, bullet proofed MPU and the prior playfield worked fine, so I'm assuming the problem lies somewhere on the playfield I swapped in. I did repin the J1 connector which had some browning and one of the wires was spliced and taped. Now everything "looks" fine, so I'm not sure where to go from here. I do not still have the other playfield or game, so there's no experimenting there. Thoughts are appreciated.

#2 7 years ago

If ALL feature lights are out, check rectifier board fuses (out of circuit with continuity test; or in circuit with VoltMeter) and test points. Particularly TP1, ~5.5VDC.

#3 7 years ago

All fuses work fine and the rectifier board is brand new. I'm pretty certain the playfield feature lights didn't work in the old game either, which makes it a wire or connector issue. It would be helpful if someone could tell me which wires and connectors control the feature lights and I could try and backtrack it from there.

#4 7 years ago

Rectifier J1.7 (BLUE) feeds ~5.5VDC to playfield lamps.
Rectifier J3.6 (BLUE) feeds ~5.5VDC to backbox (player up, game over, HSTD)
Cabinet has no controlled lights.

Lamp Driver Board:
TP1 = +5VDC
TP2 = GROUND

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Rectifier J1.7 (BLUE) feeds ~5.5VDC to playfield lamps.
Rectifier J3.6 (BLUE) feeds ~5.5VDC to backbox (player up, game over, HSTD)
Cabinet has no controlled lights.
Lamp Driver Board:
TP1 = +5VDC
TP2 = GROUND

So if the J1.7 Blue feeds the playfield lamps and the GI works, do that imply it is more likely to be the connector on the lamp driver board?

#6 7 years ago

The GI is a completely different, totally unrelated circuit to Feature Lamps.

Have you taken any measurements with a meter yet?

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

The GI is a completely different, totally unrelated circuit to Feature Lamps.
Have you taken any measurements with a meter yet?

I have not. I have a multimeter but I really don't even know what or how to measure. That being said, every board, the MPU, the Lamp Driver Board, the Solenoid driver board and the Sound Board were all sent out and rebuilt. Plus I put in a brand new rectifier board. Plus, the feature lamps worked on the playfield I took out of the game. So doesn't all that point to the wiring or connectors on the playfield?

#8 7 years ago

Yeah, but it's all circumstantial evidence. Perry Mason would eat you alive . Let's give Mr. Berger some solid evidence.

OK, your game boots up good, right? 7 blinks, drop target banks reset and makes a cool sound. Then the score displays toggle from zeroes or last game score to HSTD (the HSTD lamps should lite up when high score is displayed)?

If this is all happening then the feature lites should begin attract.

Set your meter to 20VDC range. Red lead in V jack, Black lead in COM jack.

meter 20VDC (resized).pngmeter 20VDC (resized).png

Press the black lead into the silver braid stapled around the backbox. With the red probe Touch TP1 on the rectifier board:

Early Bally Rect SW ILL (resized).pngEarly Bally Rect SW ILL (resized).png

The meter should display 5.whatever VDC

Leave the black lead on braid. Now probe the red lead right down beside the blue wire into the connector. You should see the same voltage (and the lights just might come on while you have the meter lead pressuring the connector pin).

Early Bally Rect SW ILL2 (resized).pngEarly Bally Rect SW ILL2 (resized).png

You're all set. What are the results of these tests?

#9 7 years ago

Ah...this I can do. Electronics for dummies! Thanks for working with an EM guy! I will report back tomorrow night.

#10 7 years ago

Okay, so much for assuming, Perry Mason would be proud of you. Nothing happened when I touched the tp1 bit when i forced the probe in with the blue wire the lights started flashing. I'm thinking now that when I first put the playfield in I tried it before repinning the connectors and maybe that fried something? But then again I don't want to assume anything further. So what's the next logical step?

#11 7 years ago

Repin J1.7 with a .156 Trifurcon pin (I would likely repin all rectifier board connectors with trifurcons)

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=496

If you didn't send the rectifier board out for refurb, you need to pull it and reflow/melt the solder and add 1/8" new solder under those header pins. If the header pins are original or old, they should be replace as well.

Consider replacing the bridge rectifiers, power resistors, etc, unless that board has been serviced or replaced.

PS: Bally rectifier headers can be very ornery to remove...

#12 7 years ago

The rectifier board is brand new and I already repinned J1.7 with Trifurcon pins. However I did use the old housing as it looked fine. Could that make a difference? What does it mean that nothing registered on TP1.

Thanks

Peter

#13 7 years ago

Okay, so I figured what the heck, i took out a brand new housing and some Trifurcon pins from a brand new labeled envelope of trifurcon pins, and repinned it just in case I had done it with regular pins to begin with. (I did take them out of an unmarked envelope, but I thought I had only ordered trifurcon in the past. Perhaps I was wrong). How the heck do you tell the difference anyway?

At any rate, the good news is the features started working. The bad news is a everything started flashing, a bulb in the back box popped and fuse F2 blew. I replaced the fuse and while the feature lights now work, the GI lights don't. I can't win! Any thoughts?
Thanks

#14 7 years ago

F2 is the display high voltage fuse.

F5 is the GI fuse.

You may need to do the tedious, mind-numbing job of verifying wire colors in connectors using the PLUG CONNECTORS yellow sheet of the manual. It has a legend in the middle at the bottom that translates the two-digit color code for you. Since connector work has been done, it's always a good idea to go back and verify an earlier owner hasn't left you an easter egg to find.

#15 7 years ago

I have verified the connectors have the correct wires. Remember the GI worked fine on the old playfield and fine on this one until I re pinned the connector again, so the GI is somehow connected to that action, I think. For what it's worth, any bulb I put into the back box socket that blew, continues to blow, so there is a short in that socket. Can that somehow be playing a roll? Thanks

#16 7 years ago

Had that problem on my space shuttle playfield gi. Turned out to be 2 sockets shorted out

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from nightsearcher:

Had that problem on my space shuttle playfield gi. Turned out to be 2 sockets shorted out

So did you just replace them and then it was fine?

#18 7 years ago

Yes

#19 7 years ago

So I replaced the socket with another one and it turned the machine on and the bulb/socket started to smoke so I turned the machine off before the bulb blew again. So it would seem that there is too much power going to that bulb socket. It's one of the two game over bulbs if that helps. Since it started after I repinned the J1 connector, could someone tell me if one of those wires control the GI and if so which one and I will recheck the wiring.

Thanks

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from Topcard:

So I replaced the socket with another one and it turned the machine on and the bulb/socket started to smoke so I turned the machine off before the bulb blew again. So it would seem that there is too much power going to that bulb socket. It's one of the two game over bulbs if that helps. Since it started after I repinned the J1 connector, could someone tell me if one of those wires control the GI and if so which one and I will recheck the wiring.
Thanks

image (resized).pngimage (resized).png

Your issue sounds more like it's in a lamp socket somewhere.

1 month later
#21 7 years ago

Okay, I finally got back to working on this and I realized that my replacement bridge rectifier has nine pins and for J1 and Paragon only uses 8 of them. I forgot that when I repinned the connector and when I put it back on, I lined it up wrong. I moved it over and things were better but not perfect so I swapped out the bridge rectifier with another new one I had and then everything was fine. So I guess blew something on the first rectifier board when I lined up the pins wrong. Gotta wear my glasses next time!
Thanks to all those who helped!

1 year later
#22 6 years ago

i know its a old thread but I found this while working on my Elektra. my playfield lights dont come on. replaced the solenoid expander board, the aux light boards, traics and lamp driver board. to no avail. but I saw you check the tp1 on the rectifier board and when I check that to the braided ground, I get zero volts. so its safe to say that rectifier has gone bad? across the fuse I get 5v so thats my guess. this is the rectifer board that goes under the playfield in the cabinet. just want someone to verify that there should be voltage at tp1 if I am going to have playfield lights for Elektra.

#23 6 years ago

You should have 6.5v DC at TP1 on the power supply. Not sure why you would measure 5v across the fuse but odds are you have a bad rectifier. They are a common point of failure.

FYI, an easy test of the sw il bus is to simply take a test jumper and short the ground of the frame or braid to the tab on any lamp socket. If there is power on the switched il bus then grounding any lamp tab should make it light.

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