5.23V
(Topic ID: 208958)
That's good.
Can you measure the controlled lamp power on the rectifier board? Red meter lead goes on on TP1 of the rectifier board. It should be in the vicinity of 5.4V DC
Yeah that's the rectifier board.
If you only measure 2.8V at TP1 it means the bridge rectifier "BR1" is likely to be faulty. Did your old controlled lamps appear dim?
Can you measure TP5 on the rectifier board? It should measure around 43V DC.
The old lamps did appear dim, yes.
TP5 measures 43.6V
Does it appear that the rectifiers have been replaced at some point based on the solder?
Quoted from FatPanda:TP5 measures 43.6V
Good, just wanted to confirm your multi-meter was measuring ok.
Quoted from FatPanda:The old lamps did appear dim, yes.
Very dim?
Yeah, looks to me like bridge rectifier BR1 is faulty and you're only getting half rectified voltage out of it for the controlled lamps. You can test it in diode mode using your multimeter with the machine OFF if you want to confirm. BR1 sits behind the rectifier board and is soldered at the 4 joints inside the yellow box highlighted below.
I can see many wires have been cut from the connectors and soldered directly to the rectifier board - bit of hack work going on.
You have to decide if you want to replace BR1 (you will need access to a desoldering gun), or to replace the rectifier board with an aftermarket board and re-crimp the connectors.
BTW the rectifier board has wall line power on it - be careful not to fiddle around with it while the machine is plugged in.
Some bulbs were pretty dim, others seemed normalish. I think a replacement will do just fine. They're not incredibly expensive, I think around $55-65 and im not about zap myself or fry any other boards to repair. Its an old tired board.
Or do you think putting the resistors on the affected lamps would be an easier, (still ok?) method? The LEDs are plenty bright still.
Here are the connectors. The smaller one appears unmolested. For the larger one, I would have to tdesolder the wires that have been soldered directly to the board and reconnect them to the connector? This would be if I were to replace the board.
Remember that if you replace the rectifier board you gotta put your soldering shoes on for the wires coming from the transformer that attach to the back of the board.
I say don’t do anything until you get resistors on those lamps.
What Chuck said ^^^
.
Quoted from FatPanda:Or do you think putting the resistors on the affected lamps would be an easier, (still ok?) method? The LEDs are plenty bright still.
Give it a try with one or three flickering lamps. You might get lucky that it's good enough. Change the associated SCRs too if the resistors don't help.
Quoted from FatPanda:Here are the connectors. The smaller one appears unmolested. For the larger one, I would have to tdesolder the wires that have been soldered directly to the board and reconnect them to the connector? This would be if I were to replace the board.
You're actually missing another smaller connector.
Yes, if you replace the rectifier board, you'll have to put those soldered wires back into the connectors.
Ok. I'll try the resistors first. Dumb previous owners 
I'll replace the SCRs for the affected lamps that are still out.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Remember that if you replace the rectifier board you gotta put your soldering shoes on for the wires coming from the transformer that attach to the back of the board.
Sounds like a figure of speech but I'm kind of an idiot...so, can you say it in idiot terms for me?
Quoted from FatPanda:Sounds like a figure of speech but I'm kind of an idiot...so, can you say it in idiot terms for me?
It’s the board you posted pictures of just before. The one with wires soldered directly to the header pins.
That board is connected to the transformer. It receives the power from the transformer and distributes it to the rest of the game. All the wires that come from the transformer are not connected to that board via a connector. They are directly soldered to the back of the board. If you replace the board you will have to redo all that work. There’s at least 15-20 wires that need done.
Quoted from chuckwurt:It’s the board you posted pictures of just before. The one with wires soldered directly to the header pins.
That board is comnected to the transformer. It receives the power from the transformer and distributes it to the rest of the game. All the wires that come from the transformer are not connected to that board via a connector. They are directly soldered to the back of the board. If you replace the board you will have to redo all that work. There’s at least 15-20 wires that need done.
Gotcha. That's not a problem if I have to replace the board. I should be able to handle that. Soldering is kinda fun.
Still annoyed that it's in this kind of shape. Hopefully the resistors are sufficient.
Quoted from Whysnow:so happy you have found Bally so quickly on your pinball journey
It's been a GREAT learning experience! And I love the game!
Just hate it when people take shortcuts, but I guess this is common for this era. vid1900 guides are invaluable!
Would all the controlled lamps flickering at the same time be indicative of the rectifier board acting up?
Quoted from FatPanda:Would all the controlled lamps flickering at the same time be indicative of the rectifier board acting up?
To be honest, I'm surprised your LEDs are actually coming on, let alone half of them not flickering since they're only getting 2.8V supply.
The original flickering issue is that when SCRs are switched on via the gate, they need a certain amount of current to stay on. This is a parameter of SCRs called the "holding current". Incandescent lamps as a load easily meet this requirement, plus these old lamps are very slow in lighting up/down so you would never be able to see them flicker.
LEDs on the other hand draw a small amount of current and due to the fact they're powered by unregulated (rippling) DC in these machines, the amount of time the SCR sees enough "holding current" is much shorter than incandescent lamps. Plus LEDs switch on/off instantly making the flicker more obvious.
Because your LEDs are only seeing half (2.8V) voltage, it's making them draw even less current than expected causing some/most of the SCRs to switch off prematurely or sometimes not switch on in the DC phase.
This is the reason for putting a resistor load across LEDs; to increase the current draw through SCRs and help them stay on so their behavior better meets our requirement.
This is a new, intermittent problem, where every insert during a game would all come flicker off and on in unison. Hans from Siegecraft also stated that low voltage would cause the issue of a handful of LEDs flickering while the others stay lit.
Was wondering if this new issue was another symptom of a bridge rectifier going bad and if I should get a new rectifier board just to eliminate any further issues?
Wharton, NJ
Bridge rectifiers don't slowly go bad. The work perfectly until the moment they fail.
I would weigh in to say don't be intimidated with replacing the bridges on that board. Usually, replacements are bigger, and mounted to the front of the board, but is not that difficult, in comparison to fixing your connectors.
I personally would do the rectifier board. They are old and past their life imo.
Keep in mind you can pull the board and transformer to do the job on the bench instead in the game.
One way or another you need to sort out the rectifier board so the controlled lamps have correct voltage allowing the SCRs to get exercised properly.
It's up to you if you want to replace the bridge itself, or the whole rectifier board.
barakandl sells aftermarket rectifier boards - you can even buy it in kit form if you're feeling adventurous. Scroll half way down on this link:
http://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
Keeping an eye on this one, but won’t intervene as the folks posting here already are much better at bally troubleshooting than myself. They’re giving good advice and I think you’re on the right track with the controlled lamp voltage.
Quoted from Whysnow:I personally would do the rectifier board. They are old and past their life imo.
Keep in mind you can pull the board and transformer to do the job on the bench instead in the game.
Quoted from Quench:One way or another you need to sort out the rectifier board so the controlled lamps have correct voltage allowing the SCRs to get exercised properly.
It's up to you if you want to replace the bridge itself, or the whole rectifier board.
barakandl sells aftermarket rectifier boards - you can even buy it in kit form if you're feeling adventurous. Scroll half way down on this link:
http://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
Not feeling incredibly adventurous at this point. 
I prefer plug'n'play if possible and will probably end up getting a new rectifier board sooner or later. It'll clean up and update that whole area in the back box and this way I'll know things are connected properly. I hate shortcuts!
Quoted from HHaase:Keeping an eye on this one, but won’t intervene as the folks posting here already are much better at bally troubleshooting than myself. They’re giving good advice and I think you’re on the right track with the controlled lamp voltage.
Appreciate it Hans! The jumper wire connecters are a bit loose on the power pins, so I'm thinking if I order parts to re-crimp the wiring for the new rectifier board that I'll see if there's a bit larger crimp for the jumper wires as well, to snug it up a bit and ensure a solid connection.
Quoted from FatPanda:I prefer plug'n'play if possible and will probably end up getting a new rectifier board sooner or later. It'll clean up and update that whole area in the back box and this way I'll know things are connected properly. I hate shortcuts!
If you're replacing the connectors that plug onto the rectifier board, make sure you get "trifurcon" terminals and housings. Trifurcon connectors grab the pins from 3 sides and provide much more contact and better reliability.
You need an 8, 10 and 20 pin housings for the trifurcon pins. Oh, get the strip of 20 key plugs (the little thing that goes into the connector housing to block one of the holes so it makes the housing only plug on one way).
Quoted from Quench:If you're replacing the connectors that plug onto the rectifier board, make sure you get "trifurcon" terminals and housings. Trifurcon connectors grab the pins from 3 sides and provide much more contact and better reliability.
You need an 8, 10 and 20 pin housings for the trifurcon pins. Oh, get the strip of 20 key plugs (the little thing that goes into the connector housing to block one of the holes so it makes the housing only plug on one way).
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=86
Thank you for confirming this! I'm brand new to doing this myself, even though I've seen Hilton do it a couple times, but knowing these things takes some of the guesswork out of ordering parts that I can't see in front of me. Going to place an order today, and get a new board ordered as well. I still have resistors on the way, but I won't solder any of them on unless I need to.
Quoted from Quench:Have you got or ordered a crimping tool too?
I have a basic stripper/crimper, but will probably look in-store or from Amazon for a proper one. Any suggestions?
Quoted from FatPanda:Board, connectors, crimps all ordered! I want to be rid of this issue already!
Looks like one or more of your original standoffs is busted on the rectifier assembly (super common on all the boards). Since the replacement boards with rectifiers on the top side don't screw mount through the rectifier and into to the transformer assembly you may have trouble sitting the new board in place. If you do use four old playfield posts to make a good replacement stand offs for the rectifier board. 6-32 machine screw 1.5" length with a nut to fasten it in place. Just be mindful of any large screw heads that might bight into a power trace on the rectifier PCB (bottom left would be closest but a typical 6-32 round screw head has clearance).
I've been meaning to purchase nylon columns and machine screws with nut to add to my kits since the originals stand offs are busted often enough. Just reminded me to do so....
Quoted from FatPanda:I have a basic stripper/crimper, but will probably look in-store or from Amazon for a proper one. Any suggestions?
I love this crimper: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4L8QMW
Make sure and specify the SN-48B
Quoted from barakandl:Looks like one or more of your original standoffs is busted on the rectifier assembly (super common on all the boards). Since the replacement boards with rectifiers on the top side don't screw mount through the rectifier and into to the transformer assembly you may have trouble sitting the new board in place. If you do use four old playfield posts to make a good replacement stand offs for the rectifier board. 6-32 machine screw 1.5" length with a nut to fasten it in place. Just be mindful of any large screw heads that might bight into a power trace on the rectifier PCB (bottom left would be closest but a typical 6-32 round screw head has clearance).
I've been meaning to purchase nylon columns and machine screws with nut to add to my kits since the originals stand offs are busted often enough. Just reminded me to do so....
I can wait for the board until you get this in if possible! I don't have any spare nylon posts I could use.
Quoted from FatPanda:I can wait for the board until you get this in if possible! I don't have any spare nylon posts I could use.
i will cut open your box and slip in some playfield old posts and 1.5" machine screws you can use. It will ship today.
I just bought some 1" nylon columns and will start including them with all rectifier boards once I get them.
For my reference for when i have to redo this mutha
http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/as-2518-18-wiring.htm
Ok Quench the affected SCRs have been replaced but the lamps still don't work. Touching the lamp socket to ground lights the lamp. Touching the bottom right leg of the SCR, and TP2 does NOT light the lamp. Touching the top leg of the SCR and TP3 does NOT light the lamp.
I have the replacement rectifier board but not the plugs or crimps. So cant install quite yet.
Remind me which lamps still aren't working?
The bottom right leg of the small SCRs connect directly to the lamp sockets. If grounding that bottom right leg doesn't switch on the lamp, but grounding the colored wire at the lamp does work, you have a connection issue.
With the affected lamps, do the same check as you did here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/paragon-controlled-lamps-only-some-dont-work#post-4210198
My problem lamps are
6k Bonus Q18
10k Bonus Q28
Spinner 4 Top Q43
Spinner 2 Q18
I'm trying to figure out which pin connects to which SCR but I'm lost 
I did it the ild fashioned way and physically traced all of the problem lamps' SCRs bottom right leg to their respective pins on the back of the board and they all have continuity.
I'm assuming next is to check the connectors and wiring?
Continuity from the lamp base to the connector is there. From what I can tell, all the connections are there. Do you think there are issues with the chips that are on the board?
About to ready to order a lamp board if we've exhausted all the possibilities.
Quoted from FatPanda:Continuity from the lamp base to the connector is there.
So you have continuity from the bottom right leg of the respective SCR all the way to the lamp sockets?
Grounding the wire on the lamp socket works, but grounding the bottom right leg of the SCR doesn't?
Quoted from Quench:So you have continuity from the bottom right leg of the respective SCR all the way to the lamp sockets?
Grounding the wire on the lamp socket works, but grounding the bottom right leg of the SCR doesn't?
I just tested both things again.
I have continuity from the bottom right leg of the SCRs to their respective sockets.
I can light all bulbs by grounding the SCR to TP2, but cannot turn it on by connecting the top leg to TP3 of all problem lamps.
I'm not sure why things are changing the way they are!
Quoted from FatPanda:I can light all bulbs by grounding the SCR to TP2, but cannot turn it on by connecting the top leg to TP3 of all problem lamps.
Try connecting TP3 to the top leg of Q12 - does the 5K bonus lamp light up? (just to check that your TP3 jumper method is working).
Please post a clear picture of the SCRs you bought showing their markings. Someone had an issue a little while ago with fake ones that had the outer legs crossed over.
Quoted from Quench:Try connecting TP3 to the top leg of Q12 - does the 5K bonus lamp light up? (just to check that your TP3 jumper method is working).
Please post a clear picture of the SCRs you bought showing their markings. Someone had an issue a little while ago with fake ones that had the outer legs crossed over.
Yes, 5K bonus lights up.
I bought the SCRs from Pinball Life. Let me know if you need a clearer picture. The markings read: 2N 5060 703
They are half circle shaped.
Quoted from FatPanda:The markings read: 2N 5060 703
Have a look at the two posts #24 and #25 here...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/light-and-scr-question-special-force#post-4103923
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