(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons

By schwarz

10 years ago


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  • 1,901 posts
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  • Latest reply 8 hours ago by Deadlander
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Topic index (key posts)

12 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #103 Sound Board Pins/Wires - Photos Posted by BC_Gambit (10 years ago)

Post #183 Rectifier Board - J1, J2 & J3 wire photos Posted by Cheddar (8 years ago)

Post #269 Mini Flipper - Stock Black Lettering Posted by Captive_Ball (7 years ago)

Post #274 Cabinet Stencils - Pinball Pimp Posted by Captive_Ball (7 years ago)

Post #287 Bally Flipper Bat - Pinball Life Posted by Captive_Ball (7 years ago)

Post #301 Bally AS-2518-18 Rectifier Board - Wiring Key Photos Posted by zombywoof (7 years ago)

Post #384 Removing Metal Spacers from Plastics Posted by Captive_Ball (7 years ago)

Post #515 MPU J3 Connector Photos Posted by Captive_Ball (6 years ago)

Post #608 Mini Flipper - Buy it at PBR Posted by meSz (5 years ago)

Post #622 Saucer coil stop = A-61330 Posted by Captive_Ball (5 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#513 6 years ago

need a little help. I was repinning connections testing the game after every finished connector.
I turned the game on to hear a pop..... ahhhh shit....

it's the J3 connector on the solenoid driver board, I started tracing down wires back to their source and checking via the manual. Think I already found one issue (not sure how I could of messed it up that bad). I was hoping someone could snap a pic of that connecter with the wire colors.
I had been taking pics of connectors not sure why I didn't with this one. sucks...

thanks

DSCN0448 (resized).JPGDSCN0448 (resized).JPG

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#514 6 years ago

side note: there was some janky wires on the back that looked like they were put on after the factory. (not sure of there purpose yet)

as for the j3 connector
the only one I moved so far was #4 to #3 since that is what the manual said. then I stopped and was like well let me post on the forum just so I have a second way to verify.

I popped the headers back out because they were to short, plus it seemed a little weird that so many were soldered together.
on the solder side of the board for the J3 connector
1- 10 by them selfs (good based on manual)
11-12 connected (good based on manual)
13-17 connected (good based on manual)
18-24 connected (18-22 connected via manual) 23-24 are just ground pins so I guess thats fine
25 by itself (good based on manual)

something tells me this isn't right and the manual is only raising more questions.

#516 6 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Here are a couple pics...hope this helps

that's awesome! thank you very much.
I knew I put that white wire in the wrong place (makes me feel better knowing the manual was telling me the truth). was on auto pilot repining all those connectors.
looking forward to seeing what other damage I incurred from this mistake.

#517 6 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Here are a couple pics...hope this helps

thought I'd let you know that everything is back to normal, spending hours upon hours repining these connections is a lot of fun.
I even rewired the transformer, since I had all the matching wire colors.
having some issues getting this 7 digit display to work, I emailed xpin they said that its probably the connectors so or the driver board.

Thinking it's the 24 pin .62 connector that connects to the displays that are the issue. Since this is paragon I opted to go with gold plated pins .
they are like 20 cents per pin compared to like 3-7 cents for a tin pin, but hey it's paragon. love games that make me curse the world I was born, they get special treatment.

1 week later
#529 6 years ago

any reason the higher pitched sounds don't stop on my paragon?
guessing there is an IC chip that needs to be replaced

#533 6 years ago
Quoted from srcdube:

I had a similar symptom when I accidentally blew Q2 on the soundboard, however I didn't have a higher pitched sound playing continuously which sounds like what you describe ("doesn't stop"). My symptom was that the last note of a tone sequence continued to play for some responses. If a longer series of notes ended with a "null" or no sound, then the sound wouldn't continue; but if I hit something like a bumper that was a single note, it would continue playing the last sound until I hit something else that triggered a new sound. If that is more what you are experiencing, then it could be Q2 or U7. Q2 controls U7 which provides a short decaying pulse into the analog circuit that only lasts the duration of one note.
If it's just a single sound playing all the time, then it's probably something in the analog circuitry (across the bottom of schematic), like a cap as Chosen_S suggests; or possibly adjustments to the sustain rheostat RT2, etc...

that's actually almost identical to what I'm hearing, If I read your post right. say the ball goes in the paragon scoop the last sound will continue to play until something like a pop bumper is hit, then it'll stop. awesome, I think I might even have that part if it's Q2... maybe. Thank you

Quoted from Chosen_S:

In general it’s a good idea to recap any soundboard over 20 years old, those capacitors only have a mfg lifespan of 12 years anyway. Replacing them will help the sound to be healthy and crisp. Of course other issues could be at hand

done and done, I only have two factory boards right now in it (since that's the way I bought it). recapped (at least the electrolytic), new headers, new regs, new pins, new displays etc. I even cleaned out some mud dobber nest while I was at it. hope to someday re-stencil the cabinet, but my garage is being taken up by a car that needs to be fixed. my bumper and multiple car parts are all over the place . hoping someday I'll make some time for it.

#537 6 years ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

Probably everyone knows this already, but if the sustain adjustment on the sound board is turned up too high, the last note played will keep playing until another note is played. If you hear a continuous note, turn the sustain pot counterclockwise and see it that stops it.

Never even crossed my mind to check what those were for . I just tried adjusting them, and still the same. The game has gotten progressively worse as time went on, so I'm guessing it's probably one of the board components srcdube mentioned. definitely good to know though

Quoted from srcdube:

The solenoid select line goes two places... U2 (the address of the note to be played), and into the analog circuit through Q2 to have U7 generate a pulse that determines how long a note is played (and the sustain circuit and rheostat control how long the decay is after the pulse from U7 ends). See the sample signals in the schematics. Depending on how Q2 is toasted, U7 may never fire at all (ie. no sound generated), or be generating a constant voltage level into the analog circuit, instead of decaying like it should (ie. last note continues to play). U7, or the other components around it could also be bad too... but Q2 transistor is an easy fix to try out first. R21, C15 and C16 will control how wide the original pulse out of U7 is, and C6 and the sustain circuitry controls how fast/slow the decay of the signal is after U7 turns off. If it's not turning off, it would more likely be U7 or the stuff controlling it (Q2/C15/C16)

it's getting easier to see what the issues could be when you understand how the system works. gonna check on it tomorrow, hoping it's q2.
hoping I got a q2.

#540 6 years ago

Yeah been messing around with tax stuff and TNA, been meaning to check out the issue. I tried adjusting those two potentiometers like he mentioned and no matter how they were adjusted it didn't seem to help. After looking at the transistor, I don't think I have that specific one but something close. Gonna check the specs to make sure it's gonna work. can't seem to find any info on f2n3904, I have a 2n3904. assuming it'd be fine but....

2 weeks later
#546 6 years ago

question, there seems to be a slight delay between my two right flippers. I know there is going to be a delay to some degree, but it shouldn't be that noticeable.

My two left flipper are almost instantaneous as soon as the button is pressed. I checked a video to make sure, and yeah there is something off.

All the flippers were rebuilt with all new parts, except the brackets.
I tried adjusting the EOS to see if that would make a difference... didn't see much of any. Probably will revisit it though.
was thinking it might be the flipper leaf switches (pitted really really bad)? it looks like the flipper switches go direct to the coils (via schematic), so if they aren't getting enough current then I would assume there would be some issues.

Still waiting on the leaf switches and a gate to come in from PBresource, but until then if anyone else has an idea I'm open.

#565 6 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

Power to the top flipper comes from the EOS switch on the lower flipper so make sure it's adjusted correctly.
Yes it could be the flipper button leaf switch as you say a well.

yeah went back through replaced the flipper leaf switches, not much difference. (still happy I changed it out though.)

Guess it was all in the EOS, I have it to where the second switch makes contact first, a split second before the first switch opens. Then I had to bend it down another 1/4" past where I had it before, before the plunger hit the coil stop. Helped out a lot, still a slight delay, but a world better then it was.

It's hard to perceive the difference in video's, you have to be there in order to see what the deal is.
my only grip is the previous owner installed a playfield protector due to the cupped inserts, that isn't the bad part. There is no way to really raise the drop targets to level them out for the 5x shot. This causes the ball to hit 4 big speed bumps on the way, which makes the shot that much more difficult to make. (cupped inserts or 4 speed bumps hmmmm...) Guess I'm gonna have to make something to raise it a bit.
I'd love to raise the inserts and clear, maybe some day....

#571 6 years ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I play with cupped inserts, it affects ball travel maybe...10% of the time? And usually on slow, lazy balls (that's what she said). Personally, i don't like playing on pf protectors.
As far as raising the drops, even with the plate on the bottom of the mech, you can't raise the targets enough?

Should be able to, I think. Problem is finding something that is the exact height... or maybe taping a few machine screws into the bottom of the mech to hit the plate for a finer adjustment. Similar to what recent games have.

Think it depends on how bad the inserts are, I know on a lot of EM's they drive me nuts. Might not be as bad in this game.

#596 6 years ago

looks really good, wish I had the motivation to go that far with mine.
did you use the newer style flippers? they look narrow near the tip, maybe that's just my eyes.

#599 6 years ago

all this early SS stuff is still relatively new to me.
one other thing that seemed odd to me was when the ball comes down on the flipper with any force and your holding the flipper up it has a tendency to push the flipper down and flip the ball back up after the magnet force re-engages with the plunger. as if the coil didn't have enough strength to keep the flipper in the hold position. Is this normal behavior for this style of game? all three main flippers do this so I'm thinking its normal maybe? I've played early SS's enough but don't remember this really being a thing.

I know the castle shot on game of thrones can do this to the right flipper (at least push it down). That's coming at it with a lot of force, and near the end of the flipper so I'd expect that to happen.

#601 6 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

I can almost guarantee you that it's the coil stops.

think u might be right

k, well I swapped out the new ones I had in there with the old ones and yes it seems to hold a lot better.
the new ones I got were from pb resource they came in a rebuild kit from that year but look slightly different (everything else was the same ). think I need different coil stops.
maybe A-613-127? marco has these
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-613-127

pic of kit I got, kit had pretty much everything except the additional stacked switch on the EOS. Think I'm gonna start buying individual parts instead of the kit, seems a lot of times especially on newer sterns, that one piece breaks long before its time for the full kit.

kt-bflip-03 (resized).jpgkt-bflip-03 (resized).jpg

#603 6 years ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

When you rebuild flippers, it's typically a good idea to do all flippers at the same time unless it's an individual component that you a replacing. In that case, you should do both, so that you have consistent flipper feel across all flippers. I would check the gap and contact of your EOS switches. If you have partial contact between the switches, you'll have weaker hold, and your flippers will bounce when a ball hits it. you'll want solid contact.

Awesome, will do. I have to say I've rebuilt several later model stern and Williams, but even though a lot was the same, there were still a lot of nuances that remained unclear with this era of pinball.

I rebuilt all four at the same time. Probably didn't need to, but I replaced all the coils on them as well, resistance tested out with that model coil.

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