(Topic ID: 69394)
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Mulvane, KS
3 months later
One of my Paragons I've been working on was working great with an alltek MPU in it. I took it out to use it in another game and decided to drop the Original untested MPU in. This MPU looks pretty clean and the battery has been removed.
When I power on, everything boots as it should and the game goes into attract mode, credit switches are adding credits, self test button works as it should, but the credit button does nothing.
Cannot start a game... ideas?
Quoted from JethroP:Credit switch is connected to MPU at A4J3 pin 2 and pin 14. There is also a diode in series with the switch. Check those connections on the old board, and check the diode. Believe there is an open circuit there. Please report back.
Bingo. Found cracked solder on the header pin for that switch. Now to hunt down my other gremlins.
I am randomly getting TILT during game for no reason.
Removed tilt bob.
Playfield tilt is wide open.
Coin door tilt is wide open.
Ball roll tilt is resting where it should be.
Also sometimes my (2x 3x 4x 5x) drop targets are not resetting. Should reset every ball I believe. I repinned the connector on the SDB and checked that the header pins were not old/ cracked. Still happening. Do transistors start to get intermittent when they are failing or are they more like all or nothing type of behavior?
Thanks for the help guys.
Pic just to show off my new clear Titan Rubber kit.
received_863713654431672 (resized).jpegQuoted from JethroP:You may have a bad capacitor at one of the tilt switches.
Thanks for the tip on the Tilt capacitors. I think that fixed it.
As for the in line drops. Sometimes they reset at beginning of game and sometimes they stay down. I recrimped the wire on the SDB J1 pin 2 per the manual. Made sure the header pins were all good too. The mechanism moves freely and the wires for the coil are soldered on nicely.
Still hunting...
1 month later
So I noticed something strange about my game, after I clipped the tilt bob capacitor I cant tilt the game at all.
As im in there trying to make it tilt by touching the bob to the ring, I notice that if im touching the bob with one hand and the lockbar with my other hand the right pop bumper fires.
It does the same thing in switch test, but no switches appear in the window.
How would you guys go about diagnosing this issue? Id like to have a working tilt again.
16115163155372888768242442936580 (resized).jpgQuoted from RoyGBev:The inside of the ring, and the hanger bracket and rod, need to be clean. I polished mine to a shine with Novus 2. You also need the cap in there to catch very short contacts. Get a new cap and install it.
Bingo! The ring, bob and rod were incredibly dirty. After cleaning them up it works just fine!
Thanks for the suggestion!
1 week later
I have my Paragon set up to 3 balls, all settings conservative except for SW 24 because I dont like the Paragon saucer to scan. One extra ball can be earned per ball in play, then 25k or 50k points added afterwards for 2nd earned extra ball or special.
Tough game, but I love the challenge. I may eventually buy the weebly board so I can add the Million digit.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Chosen_S:Does someone make great looking instruction cards??
Plenty in this group to choose from.
2 weeks later
Connector day... its never fun, but it always needs to be done. I repinned all 3 of the connectors on the new Bigdaddy power supply board.
I have a known working Power Supply, MPU and SDB in this machine. On my first power up it seems like everything is working except for playfield solenoids. They dont fire after the game boots and they dont fire in gameplay either...
Where would you look first?
20210322_131943 (resized).jpg20210322_131948 (resized).jpg20210322_132756 (resized).jpgBally Rectifier board day. These are kind of a PITA to remove and reinstall. But I love the BigDaddy replacement as it has the voltage LEDs and also numbers on the back of the board for easy reinstalling.
This 3rd Paragon is going to be the worst of the bunch. Despite having to do all of the normal stuff to get a game working... a mouse took up residence inside it and chewed and frayed several wires inside the backbox. Mostly on the inside of the door it seems like. Not looking forward to that.
Wish me luck.
#projectPARAGON #StevensRestoration
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Screenshot_20210323-140700_Chrome (resized).jpg 3 weeks later
Quoted from somenerd:Congrats on the acquisition! That's a really nice-looking machine; that playfield especially. Since I've got mine I've played it damn near close to every day, and I'm still so happy to have one I can call my own. Hoping you enjoy yours just as much.
Sharing an update to my previous posts:
After one of my pop bumper plastics completely broke apart a month or two ago, I ended up calling a local tech who really fixed things up for me quite a bit (Ken at Northeast Pinball; such a great guy).
Added 4 brand new pop bumpers, upgraded the lighting to LEDs (with a couple *tasteful* color accents) and added an Alltek board, replaced the malfunctioning credits/match display with a PinScore, and got a fresh wax and new posts & rubbers. He also added a lock to the door and replaced the old and overly-sensitive flipper buttons. It's playing like a brand new machine and was definitely worth the investment. I also bought some replacement plastics on eBay and swapped out the mangled piece featuring the spear-dude on the upper-left corner.
While the playfield is still worn in spots and the backglass has unfortunately flaked a little more at the bottom, those are (relatively) minor cosmetics in the grand scheme of things. Would love to go with a CPR playfield eventually, but after dropping the coin on these upgrades that's probably a ways away. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Forget the CPR. Your playfield looks really nice. As long as it plays well Id forget about the cosmetics and just enjoy it. I know a guy with a Frontier that has a 6 or 7 inch worn circle of bare wood right in the center. He has a CPR ready to put in but cant bring himself to start because other than missing some of the artwork the game plays fantastic.
Its pinball, enjoy it.
3 weeks later
Always best practice to use the manual when you can. Never know when a previous Operator did something fishy.
Here's a picture of J3 from the manual and the wire color code.
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_orca-image--936717120 (resized).jpeg
*note* pin 25 and pin 13 is the same wire and jumps from one to the other.
3 months later
Quoted from vec-tor:The picture is excellent... FLASHBALL
The top gate is intact ++ Bally #ASE-2250-11
The other two gates is where the problem lies...
Top middle gate is for Paragon only #ASE-2250-59
Bottom middle gate #ASE-2250-25 is only used on two games that I could find...
I am scouring Bally 1960's games to see if it is used again...
#ASE-2250-25 is used on pinball games Four Million BC & Playboy.
Thanks for taking the time from you schedule to post a very clean picture...
very much appreciated.
Do you need a gate? Or just doing research?
1 week later
Quoted from PinballHelp:Can anybody post/pm me some pictures of the wiring for the lower right flipper coil wiring/EOS assembly?
Gladly.
20210910_215755 (resized).jpgIt appears to me the very first switch leaf is broken off after the contact.
With the game off, when you manually turn the flipper pawl. Do the first two contacts open up? Then the second two close?
Take a photo with the flipper manually fully extended.
USER_SCOPED_TEMP_DATA_orca-image-1625326531 (resized).jpeg 3 weeks later
Pulled and leveled a bunch of loose inserts today. They can be really tricky getting them nice and flush when they want to sink low. But I'm happy with how they turned out.
Now the hard part, waiting 24 hours for the glue to completely dry.
20211003_105605 (resized).jpgreceived_300868318070391 (resized).jpeg 4 weeks later
Quoted from Nokoro:My Paragon came with this spinner which I assume is not stock. I found decals on Marco to put on the spinner with the original artwork. Question: for the decal that goes on the backside of the spinner, should it be put on upside down so that when the spinner turns the face is upright?
[quoted image]
My spinner has a bird face on the front and is solid yellow on the back.
2 months later
Quoted from MyParagon1979:I want to replace my post caps.
One is missing.
And many are loose.
Any suggestion on color, style, or brand for a Paragon?
I use the plastic white acorn nuts.
20211123_122336 (resized).jpgQuoted from guitarded:Maybe try cleaning the Volume pot on the door? Those things get filthy.
Sorry, I guess I wasnt very clear. My volume works just fine. It's the pitch of the sounds that isn't quite right. When I listen to paragon videos i hear almost a ringing sound. Mine is very much just tones. Ive been trying to adjust the sound board pots but im not having much luck.
Quoted from zombywoof:There are a few different sound options depending on some dip-switch settings on the MPU. That may explain the difference you are hearing.
Thanks!!!! I bet this is the difference im hearing.
Posting this for future reference for others.
SmartSelect_20220131-230257_Samsung Notes (resized).jpg 1 month later
Probably not the best pictures. But it's the best I could mange for tonight. My lockbar doesn't lock. I pulled off the reveiving piece and painted it white a while back, the handle is there... but the strap underneath that locks the lockbar in place is gone.
20220219_151313 (resized).jpg
20220219_151400 (resized).jpg
Can anyone identify what is missing? Is this a piece I can buy or possibly make if buying isn't an easy route?
Thanks for your help. I'd like to take this Paragon to TPF but need to be able to lock the bar in place.
Quoted from guitarded:Why LED Displays?
Better performance, better look (plus color options) and less load on the machine. Any excuse I have to throw them in my Bally machines, I take.
In that case, Any chance you have a bunch of old plasma displays laying around? I'll buy them all from you. PM me
Quoted from slochar:Ideally there should be zero difference between plasmas and the LED's. Unless you mean something else by performance?
The only reason I have the XPIN displays in my Paragon, is for the addition of the 7th digit. I roll over a million points on mine occasionally and I wanted to retain that score. But I have other Bally games I'd gladly put plasmas in.
I like to use 2smd frosted sunlight for just about anything I do with GI. You can't go wrong with sunlight. It's the perfect middle point between warm and bright. In fact I don't bother ordering anything else. Some people color match inserts, I agree it looks better than just throwing white under them but to simplify things I just order sunlight for everything.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Da-Shaker:Looks like your coil is upside down, at least compared to mine.
It's just an electromagnet as long as the diode is installed correctly and the lugs don't interfere with anything, it will function the same.
Always good to check though. Shorted lugs are a quick way to burn up fuses.
1 week later
Went down the Paragon rabbit hole tonight and realized something new. All the games shipped to France had only 3 flippers. That would change the way I play this game drastically.
Side note, is there a mythical creature that actually depicts the beast Paul Faris created in Paragon? The Griffin, and Manticore are close, but I cant seem to find one that is a Lion, eagle, lizard mix.
SmartSelect_20220419-022643_Chrome (resized).jpghttps://www.siegecraft.us/presta/index.php?id_product=44&controller=product&id_lang=1
Here's the adapters. I bought a set for my Paragon. No more flickering.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Biju:Thanks--I'll definitely look those videos up! I'm all for repairing everything I can but this has been a crazy learning process so far as the oldest machine I had up until two weeks ago was 2003. I just had my first "mess with a couple connectors and suddenly a few things don't work" moment yesterday. Fortunately I was able to fix the issue after a couple minutes of panic.
No need to panic. More than likely a machine as old as Paragon likely needs at least a few connectors rebuilt. When I rebuilt the connectors in mine, I recall about 20% of the connector pins being broken off inside then connector. It's a grueling mundane process. But very necessary on these older titles.
2 months later
Question for the Bally gurus. I never noticed before and I know it's not standard but my Paragon flippers work as soon as the game boots as its in attract mode. Is this bad? Do I need to fix something? Is it a precursor for something going out? I don't see any other notable issues.
What do you guys think?
Quoted from Ryguy25:I was troubleshooting my game today and found this burned out connector on the rectifier.
Do you think it will be good enough to re-pin the connector? Or should I replace the board with a brand new one?[quoted image][quoted image]
If you don't want to replace the whole board yet, just rebuild the connector and replace the header pins.
But if it were me, Id just install a new rectifier board from xpin or big daddy.
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/XPINPowerSupplyBoards.html
Quoted from zombywoof:Agreed. I installed a capacitor as a battery replacement on my Paragon years ago, back when NVRAM solutions were less readily available and more expensive. It has worked flawlessly for years. The only real issue to be mindful of is that if you leave your game off for a period of months, you will likely loose your settings. That's never been an issue for me, as I play this beast regularly.
Same here. I use them on most of my older games. Great alternative.
3 weeks later
I have an odd problem with my Paragon. I dont mind starting a help thread but figured I would toss it out to owners to see if it sounds farmiliar first.
My right pop bumper is firing randomly during game. Ive checked the switch and even opened it a little more to make sure its not just vibrations closing the switch. I also went ahead and changed out transistor Q10 for a tip 102, and replaced the associated diode with a 1n4007 as well.
The problem is still happening. Not sure what to do next. Any ideas?
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:I'd suspect the .05uf capacitor might be on it's way out, as my next step. Replace with .047uf. You can clip one leg to test the theory.
You guys ROCK! It was the capacitor. Clipping the leg stopped the problem completely. I have the .047uf caps on have so I'll install a new one next time I have my iron hot.
Thank you!
1 month later
Check with Mayfair. That's where I've bought them before. You'll probably have to call or email him, but I know he has them.
http://www.mayfairamusement.com/
SmartSelect_20220929_050657_Chrome (resized).jpg 2 weeks later
I second checking continuity to ground and voltage at the socket.
Also, check your harness where it bends around the coin door. On my Paragon the credit button wire broke right where the bend is. Took me a while to figure it out because the wire actually broke inside of the insulation!
I eventually found it by holding the button down and moving the harness and I heard the credit chime sound. Makes sense that it would break there considering the flexing of the wires at the bend, it just wasn't an obvious break.
1 month later
1 month later
1 month later
Quoted from sullivcd40:I swapped the 2 and 4 player displays and it took care of the issue.
Wouldn't be shocked if your top left connector needs repinned. Old crimps can cause intermittent display issues. If it returns, start there.
1 month later
Selling my Paragon if anyone is interested.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/784450659955570/?mibextid=dXMIcH
2 weeks later
Quoted from Electronmagic:Still looking for that plastic by the way.
Might have one. PM me and I'll check tomorrow.
2 weeks later
Quoted from ROMM:Did you guys see this from Outside Edge? This is the hint at the next hardtop they are releasing. Lol pair of gongs = Paragon???
[quoted image]
I'm sure that's probably right. They reached out a while back looking for a good NOS playfield to create the image file with.
Quoted from bayoubilly70:Should have never sold my first one. I played it on route around 1980. Really nice guy I got it from.
I'm ready to part ways with mine. Happy to ship if needed. PM for details.
1 month later
Quoted from mrgregb123:Hey Paragon tech-gurus -
I just restored my Paragon and have a few issues (which existed before the restore) that I'd love to get fixed but my diagnosis and attempts have been fruitless:
1) The 4k bonus light in the 1k-9k tree does not work. All of the lamp holders in this game are in excellent condition. Game was in a well-cared for home for most of its life. Nonetheless, I replaced the lamp holder and still no dice. I also located the wire for this light in the backbox (I believe pin 1 - solid red wire) and took it out, looks clean. Cleaned it anyway, no dice. Male pin it connects to looks nice too. Wiggling the connector doesn't make it flicker or anything. I've changed the bulb to be sure it's not a defective LED bulb. Out of ideas.
2) Two rollover switches, the one above Golden Cliffs and the one to the right of the Paragon hole, do not work. Checked the switches themselves. Solder looks good. Switch contacts are good. Pins in backbox appear clean. Tried wiggling the connector while pressing the rollovers and no intermittent action.
Is there a way to test for sure where the malfunctions are? I have a multimeter but not familiar with how to narrow down whether its the switch/lamp or the connector in the backbox.
Also - my tilt was stuck on due to a failed resistor (the green one) so I cut it. But now tilt barely works so I'd like to replace it. Does anyone know what part this is and where you typically get it?
Thanks so much for your help!
1) You might check the associated transistor and resistor for this lamp on the lamp driver board. Check Q57 and R57. You said the pins on the headers look nice. But did you check the back side for a cracked solder joint?
2) First see if a little 95% alcohol between the contacts makes any difference. Ive had tons of switches appear clean but alcohol took off the little bit I didnt see. Check for cracked solder on the back of the board on this one as well.
99% sure the green component you clipped off was a .1 uf capacitor. It's there to help detect slight closures. You can also take a little scotchbrite and clean the inside of the ring and the top where it hangs.
I prefer to buy them from my local friend Todd at Bigdaddy. But you're welcome to buy wherever you like.
This kit has a nice bundle with both type of SCRs found on your lamp board.
https://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/Bally-SternRepair.html
SmartSelect_20230721_032852_Chrome (resized).jpgQuoted from Trainmonger:I only suggested Jameco if you only need a variety of parts and are not looking for kits
I'll always try and support local first. Especially when they're my friends.
I will say, I won't buy any transistors off amazon. A local friend bought a large pack of tip102 from there and most wouldn't hold up through more than one cycle. Garbage.
3 weeks later
Quoted from mrgregb123:I'd liked to thank those who helped me fix a non-functioning "4" bonus light a few weeks ago. I replaced Q57 and it now works.
But I'm still baffled on the upper left (Cliffs) and right rollover (right 'orbit') switches that are stuck on. They both use the same exact two wires. I've replaced the green capacitor on the one that has one, no dice. I've completely removed the two switches from the game and examined them. No shorts, no oddities. Switch test shows 34 stuck on, which corresponds to these. I've cleaned the pins in the backbox for these wires. My game has an Alltek aftermarket MPU that looks pretty new so I'm doubtful the board is to blame. I'm a a loss as to what to do here to find why these two switches are stuck on. Anyone think of anything I missed? Thanks for the help.
I looked at the switch chart on page 18 of the manual and it looks like the switch behind the 3 bank on the right is also labeled as switch 34. Take a look at it and see if you see anything ununsual.
orca-image-55885629 (resized).jpeg 2 months later
Quoted from MR-808:* If you want to make the game even more challenging, remove the gate to the Beast’s Lair, to make it harder to trap on the Left flipper!
I should have tried this before I sold mine.
Quoted from MR-808:* Mastering the Valley Of Demons shots is key. Each target seems to have a different probability of leading to disaster based on which flipper you use.
I found that raising the UL flipper immediately
after making the Valley Of Demons shot would allow for the ball to roll off the UL flipper to a pretty safe bounce pass from the LR flipper safely onto the LL flipper. This made progress on Paragon much easier IMO.
4 months later
Quoted from bluespin:Try replacing the capacitors with a big daddy kit. https://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/Bally-SternRepair.html
Just did this on my Elektra squawk and talk board, worked like a charm.
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