(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons

By schwarz

10 years ago


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  • 1,882 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 17 days ago by BigAl56
  • Topic is favorited by 113 Pinsiders

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12 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 1,882 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 38.
#401 6 years ago

Hi all! My Paragon is finally up and flipping, but I have one problem left that has me stumped. The displays all work fine and count up in test mode, but only the first 4 digits. Digits 5 and 6 (10 and 100 thousand) never come on. I've investigated, and I know that the problem is the digit enable lines from the MPU (J1 pins 5 and 6). Specifically, with the game in digit test:

With connector J1 off the MPU, the logic probe shows J1 header pins 1-6 oscillating between low and high, as expected. It's a known-good Alltek from Skateball.

With connector J1 on the MPU and at least one display connected, pins J1-5 and J1-6 are low (though I see very occasional high pulses).

With connector J1 on the MPU and no displays connected, pins pins J1-5 and J1-6 sound different from the other digit enables (on the logic probe). Confusing, as this is the opposite of the previous symptom. But it does tend to point to a harness issue.

I've inspected the light panel's wiring harness carefully, and I don't see any shorts. No change with a different Alltek.

I'll try to borrow my friend's O-scope to get a better view of the problem.

#402 6 years ago

For my fellow Paragon lovers, in case you missed it, giving the game some exposure with my Daughter.

#403 6 years ago

Did you replace the connector pins for those digits? If a digit is out on all displays, I've found this to be the typical fault.

Quoted from swampfire:

Hi all! My Paragon is finally up and flipping, but I have one problem left that has me stumped. The displays all work fine and count up in test mode, but only the first 4 digits. Digits 5 and 6 (10 and 100 thousand) never come on. I've investigated, and I know that the problem is the digit enable lines from the MPU (J1 pins 5 and 6). Specifically, with the game in digit test:
With connector J1 off the MPU, the logic probe shows J1 header pins 1-6 oscillating between low and high, as expected. It's a known-good Alltek from Skateball.
With connector J1 on the MPU and at least one display connected, pins J1-5 and J1-6 are low (though I see very occasional high pulses).
With connector J1 on the MPU and no displays connected, pins pins J1-5 and J1-6 sound different from the other digit enables (on the logic probe). Confusing, as this is the opposite of the previous symptom. But it does tend to point to a harness issue.
I've inspected the light panel's wiring harness carefully, and I don't see any shorts. No change with a different Alltek.
I'll try to borrow my friend's O-scope to get a better view of the problem.

#404 6 years ago
Quoted from jay:

Did you replace the connector pins for those digits? If a digit is out on all displays, I've found this to be the typical fault.

We have a winner! Re-pinning those 2 pins fixed it. I forgot the first rule of early SS repair: it's almost always the connectors! This is probably why my sounds are off too. I may as well repin all of the MPU connectors now, and save myself trouble down the road.

#405 6 years ago

Okay, my Paragon has been 100% for about an hour now, and I just have one question left:

Why does anyone ever sell this game?? I have a bunch of other early Ballys, and I can already tell this is going to be the one I take to my grave. The layout is so diabolical and brilliant. Tap pass is critical to winning. I can't stop playing, it reminds me of Iron Man that way.

#406 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Okay, my Paragon has been 100% for about an hour now, and I just have one question left:
Why does anyone ever sell this game?? I have a bunch of other early Ballys, and I can already tell this is going to be the one I take to my grave. The layout is so diabolical and brilliant. Tap pass is critical to winning. I can't stop playing, it reminds me of Iron Man that way.

Shit if I know... I love the game so much I bought two. One for myself and one for a location I operate at.

#407 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

We have a winner! Re-pinning those 2 pins fixed it. I forgot the first rule of early SS repair: it's almost always the connectors! This is probably why my sounds are off too. I may as well repin all of the MPU connectors now, and save myself trouble down the road.

remember who told you first

#408 6 years ago

Also, if your sounds are garbled, almost certainly the pins. I've repinned all the boards and connectors. Takes forever but I'll likely never have to do it again in my lifetime.

#409 6 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Also, if your sounds are garbled, almost certainly the pins.

Yes, the sound actually is fine after fixing those 2 pins. But I'm going to repin the rest of J1 now, before heading over to battle you on Centaur tonight

#410 6 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

remember who told you first

You said to repin the displays, not the MPU!
After all these years of fixing old Ballys I should have known better anyway.

#411 6 years ago

Anybody have an extra wire gate to the beasts lair? I picked up a project Paragon that is missing a few things.

#412 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Okay, my Paragon has been 100% for about an hour now, and I just have one question left:
Why does anyone ever sell this game?? I have a bunch of other early Ballys, and I can already tell this is going to be the one I take to my grave. The layout is so diabolical and brilliant. Tap pass is critical to winning. I can't stop playing, it reminds me of Iron Man that way.

Because of the love hate relationship you can have with the game. I played a handful of games over the weekend....very frustrating when the ball hits one switch at the top and then you don't get a chance to flip. I had a game where I wasn't able to get a flipper on the ball three times in a row!

Luckily I was able to have a good game after that (around 400K) so the love came back. It's definitely a game that keeps you hitting the start button for more punishment.

#FUBeastLair

#413 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

You said to repin the displays, not the MPU!
After all these years of fixing old Ballys I should have known better anyway.

actually I meant bothg the connectors and MPU, always best to do both sides!

#414 6 years ago

Got around to cleaning my paragon. Added some titans and comets and I'm happy with how it came out.

IMG_7941 (resized).JPGIMG_7941 (resized).JPG

#415 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Okay, my Paragon has been 100% for about an hour now, and I just have one question left:
Why does anyone ever sell this game?? I have a bunch of other early Ballys, and I can already tell this is going to be the one I take to my grave. The layout is so diabolical and brilliant. Tap pass is critical to winning. I can't stop playing, it reminds me of Iron Man that way.

Iron Man is a "HERE IS THE BALL. SHOOT THE SHOT NOW!!!" pin.
Paragon to me is a "HERE IS THE BALL. TAKE YOUR TIME AND DAMN YOU IF YOU MISS THE SHOT" pin.

I've upgraded through 5 other Paragons to get the one I own now. I told my wife even after i'm done with this silly hobby Paragon will still be in the garage or guest room

#416 6 years ago

QUESTION:
I've never seen one of these on a pin before. It was on my Paragon. I am aware what it does but can someone give me some background on it and who else has seen one?

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#417 6 years ago
Quoted from DK:

QUESTION:
I've never seen one of these on a pin before. It was on my Paragon. I am aware what it does but can someone give me some background on it and who else has seen one?

It keeps track of how much time your wife is putting on the game while you're getting the business going. LOL

#418 6 years ago

I agree 100% as I have both pins ! You nailed it !

#419 6 years ago

Always fun when explaining the inline drop targets on the left side....I usually get the question, "Why do I have to knock down 3 targets to get 2X Bonus?"

#420 6 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Always fun when explaining the inline drop targets on the left side....I usually get the question, "Why do I have to knock down 3 targets to get 2X Bonus?"

Because it's one of the baddest games ever made, and you have to be the paragon of pinball to get that measly bonus only to do it all over again on the next ball!

3 weeks later
#421 6 years ago

New unrolled high score last night. Had to tilt the machine before the bonus started...would have rolled the machine

HS Unrolled_6.19.17 (resized).JPGHS Unrolled_6.19.17 (resized).JPG

#422 6 years ago

Nabbed a HUO machine with an unfaded cab and beautiful playfield. Quite happy with her! The inserts were still sunk and cupped nonetheless which meant a touch a wear. Popped right out though and glued back in easy. Totally digging this game and glad to be in the club. Now I just gotta get my Fireball EM back together!

#423 6 years ago
Quoted from seshpilot:

Nabbed a HUO machine with an unfaded cab and beautiful playfield. Quite happy with her! The inserts were still sunk and cupped nonetheless which meant a touch a wear. Popped right out though and glued back in easy. Totally digging this game and glad to be in the club. Now I just gotta get my Fireball EM back together!

What a coincidence are we brothers?
Pic of my paragon and you guessed it fireball sitting next to it that needs a bit of work

IMG_2140 (resized).JPGIMG_2140 (resized).JPG

#424 6 years ago
Quoted from Toads:

Pic of my paragon and you guessed it fireball sitting next to it that needs a bit of work

Wow! Those are GREAT looking games.

1 month later
#425 6 years ago

This thread could use a little bump! I've been wanting a Paragon for awhile now and finally picked one up. I'm still trying to determine how much I want to put into it, but know I need new rubbers for sure! I'm thinking of going with Titan rubbers in either:

All stock colors (white everywhere except yellow flipper rubber and shooter rod tip)
or
Something completely different...get translucent red flippers - and translucent rubbers all around

Wondering if anyone has seen translucents on the game...I can't quite envision if the translucent would be a refreshing update or if it would be too far of a departure from the era.

#426 6 years ago
Quoted from AudioHaven:

Wondering if anyone has seen translucents on the game...I can't quite envision if the translucent would be a refreshing update or if it would be too far of a departure from the era.

Follow the color and opacity of the playfield inserts.

#427 6 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Follow the color and opacity of the playfield inserts.

I like the sound of that, but not sure I follow - would you be willing to elaborate?

#428 6 years ago

Paragon is an awesome early SS pin. I'm in!
~Steveo

im in (resized).jpgim in (resized).jpg

#429 6 years ago
Quoted from steve-o:

Paragon is an awesome early SS pin. I'm in!
~Steveo

Welcome to the club - couldn't agree more! Looks like you have a nice example, too - what lights are you using?

#430 6 years ago
Quoted from AudioHaven:

Welcome to the club - couldn't agree more! Looks like you have a nice example, too - what lights are you using?

Thanks! Using the cool white LEDs from Nifty.
~Steveo

#431 6 years ago

Paragon is awesome, I've been hunting for nearly 3 years to find one, still haven't got one. We had one when I was a kid, I played it everyday, parents sold it when they moved. It holds a lot of nostalgia for me.

#432 6 years ago
Quoted from steve-o:

Thanks! Using the cool white LEDs from Nifty.
~Steveo

Are you running the non-flicker LED board(s)? Or just popped LED's in like normal bulbs? Any flicker issues? Just curious - about to order bulbs for my Paragon, but wasn't sure if the LED board(s) are a "must" or not.

#433 6 years ago

The led boards are a must, if you don't have something that provides resistance, you will have flickering in your controlled lamps

Either buy the small led boards, or the alltec lamp board

#434 6 years ago

I'm just curious, has anyone heard from CPR when they may have Paragon playfields available?

#435 6 years ago
Quoted from AudioHaven:

Are you running the non-flicker LED board(s)? Or just popped LED's in like normal bulbs? Any flicker issues? Just curious - about to order bulbs for my Paragon, but wasn't sure if the LED board(s) are a "must" or not.

Just popped the LEDs into the sockets. I don't see any adverse performance. All of the boards, except the rectifier board are originals.
~Steveo

#436 6 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

I'm just curious, has anyone heard from CPR when they may have Paragon playfields available?

I thought about a year ago it was going to start, but then they moved it and said there was a delay because they didn't have the original films for the artwork. It's on the CPR preorder list. No updates from that original delay.

2 weeks later
#437 6 years ago

I can't bring myself to use LEDs on Paragon, except warm white under the pop bumper caps.

1 month later
#438 6 years ago

I'm happy to say I picked up a paragon on the weekend. It has been owned by the same family since the mid 80's so it had little time in the arcade. They didn't look after it very well though as the cabinet red is faded, the rectifier board is hacked to heck, the displays need work and the rubbers are beyond needing to be replaced. But overall it has very good bones. I'm super happy to be fixing it up and adding it to my collection.

Does anyone have a list of what rubbers are needed for this game? And I'm assuming the original flipper rubbers were yellow?

Thanks in advance.

IMG_1662 (resized).JPGIMG_1662 (resized).JPG

IMG_1665 (resized).JPGIMG_1665 (resized).JPG

IMG_1656 (resized).JPGIMG_1656 (resized).JPG

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#439 6 years ago

I got to shop out a Paragon that was HUO and was never shopped out.
The flipper rubbers where yellow and 3/8" wide, which surprised me.

#440 6 years ago
Quoted from Ballance:

Does anyone have a list of what rubbers are needed for this game? And I'm assuming the original flipper rubbers were yellow?
Thanks in advance.

Here is a link to a rubber kit from Titan Pinball's site. Why not experiment with colors you like? I think navy blue flipper rubbers would look good. Anyways, the link has the sizes and quantities

https://www.titanpinball.com/kits/index.php/browse/bygame/3490

1 week later
#441 6 years ago

New BG Resto Paragon backglass for sale if anyone is interested.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/55578

#442 6 years ago

Also ... I have a FREE, complete Paragon cabinet, stripped. Come and get it.

#443 6 years ago

It looks as though I will finally join this club officially now. My dream game.

I am picking up a home use Paragon that is sales documented from 1980 bought from a Bally distributor still owned by the original family this weekend after over 37 years. This seems to be a popular game for families back in the day. It is still sitting in same corner of their billiards room. My boyfriend found it for me. I had other local collectors verify information, get great photos, and they are even helping to haul it home. The amazing thing is it even has untouched manilla folders for the manuals and parts still in the cabinet from the factory.

Exciting times.
I may post similiar photos to an older home use post in this thread in the future.

#444 6 years ago

Joining Club... bought my Paragon a few weeks ago after posting on Kijiji for several months. Played it to death when I was a teenager, so finally decided to get one. Found a really nice one, that was actually close to home so I was able to go pick it up myself instead of shipping. Playfield is almost perfect with just some very minor wear around the top popouts, and some of the inserts are a bit cupped (home field advantage!). Needed to replace a display, and still having some minor problems with the sound card (separate post), but otherwise working perfectly. Looks like the the flipper solenoids have been replaced so very strong shots, which really makes the play fast. Very happy with my purchase. Backglass had some flaking that was repaired, but it's barely noticeable. I may look for a new backglass someday (although that one in New Jersey looks juicy!).

#445 6 years ago
Quoted from xRose_of_Aragonx:

It looks as though I will finally join this club officially now. My dream game.

Quoted from srcdube:

Joining Club... bought my Paragon a few weeks ago after posting on Kijiji for several months.

Welcome to the club....now keep the ball away from the Beast Lair

#446 6 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Welcome to the club....now keep the ball away from the Beast Lair

I played a Paragon machine once where they had put a bumper rubber across the opening between the two posts... can't do that to an out lane! bloody cheaters! I guess you could do that if you had your kids playing it though... that would be my excuse.

#447 6 years ago
Quoted from srcdube:

bloody cheaters!

Yep. This is what mine looked like the day I brought it home. The guy I bought it from had been boasting how his son used to roll the machine all of the time.

Screen Shot 2017-10-18 at 1.18.38 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2017-10-18 at 1.18.38 PM (resized).png

#448 6 years ago

I purchased the playfield protector from Bay Area Amusements and it doesn't line up perfectly on the drop targets on the top left of the playfield. The holes are just a little bit off so the targets get caught up for a second when they reset. There is no way to adjust the way it is sitting to fix the problem. Has anyone else had this issue?

The protector is made of .75mm Makrolon, I was thinking of trimming the protector with a dremel, any suggestions on the best bit to use to do this cleanly?

#449 6 years ago

Last call ... curb alert on an empty Paragon cabinet. FREE.

58BB4801-37E5-49FB-B1C2-3104AD226547 (resized).jpeg58BB4801-37E5-49FB-B1C2-3104AD226547 (resized).jpeg

#450 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Last call ... curb alert on an empty Paragon cabinet. FREE.

Why couldn't you be on the west coast? Darn.!

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