(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons

By schwarz

10 years ago


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  • 255 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by Deadlander
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12 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 1,901 posts in this topic. You are on page 34 of 39.
#1651 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

When i was having issues with mine, I replaced the recommended transistor per pinwiki and that didnt fix the issue. I searched other threads on here and found the asssociated resistor can be the issue....pinwiki doesnt really explain that. Here is my thread on it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/paragon-5th-digit-out-on-4th-player-display#post-7354985

$1.95 for twelve 100k ohm 1/2 watt resistors from the local electronics store and my displays are good as new. Amazing!

#1652 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

$1.95 for twelve 100k ohm 1/2 watt resistors from the local electronics store and my displays are good as new. Amazing!

Well I got all 4 displays working in test and in game play. However, display 2 drops the 100,000 digit intermittently when showing the high score to date in attract mode. I have a barakandl replacement mpu. Should I be looking there or is it still an issue with the display?

#1653 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Well I got all 4 displays working in test and in game play. However, display 2 drops the 100,000 digit intermittently when showing the high score to date in attract mode. I have a barakandl replacement mpu. Should I be looking there or is it still an issue with the display?

I swapped the 2 and 4 player displays and it took care of the issue.

#1654 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

I swapped the 2 and 4 player displays and it took care of the issue.

Wouldn't be shocked if your top left connector needs repinned. Old crimps can cause intermittent display issues. If it returns, start there.

#1655 1 year ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Wouldn't be shocked if your top left connector needs repinned. Old crimps can cause intermittent display issues. If it returns, start there.

There were a few cracked solder joints on the display with the intermittent issue. I thought I took care of them when I replaced the resistors but forgot. Which connector are you talking about? I've redone a handful but not all of them.

#1656 1 year ago

I just acquired a Paragon that seems to have an odd issue.

In test, all coils (including flippers) work properly. Some switches work (drop targets) and many do not (roll-overs, top saucer holes, start button, flippers).

In gameplay, neither switches nor coils/flippers work (including the start button, so it's not possible to add addtl players). The game does reset the drops at game start and appears to be ready to play (appropriate lights are on, etc.).

Rectifier board is brand new and connections are good (swapped it thinking that was the issue). MPU is the nvram.weebly.com Revision 13 from 2019. So I assume it's not any problematic male pins on the MPU as it's too new and they all look shiny. Checked all fuses with multimeter and all good.

I'm at a loss here...I'm not too well versed in these older Bally games. Any ideas?

#1657 1 year ago

Hi, did you make sure the ground wire from the bottom cabinet is attached to the ground wire on the back box, it runs through the same pass through as the other wiring and it just might be laying in the bottom cabinet and not connected, it will cause all kinds of problems if not secured

#1658 1 year ago

All the solenoids are supplied 43volts on the yellow wire in a daisy chain and the other wire is supplied ground from the solenoid driver board, which fires each coil when grounded, also the flipper enable relay is mounted on the solenoid driver board, check all the connectors and pins on j3 on the solenoid driver board, i have had bad connections causing solenoids and flippers not working

#1659 1 year ago
Quoted from Trainmonger:

Hi, did you make sure the ground wire from the bottom cabinet is attached to the ground wire on the back box, it runs through the same pass through as the other wiring and it just might be laying in the bottom cabinet and not connected, it will cause all kinds of problems if not secured

Yes, it's attached. Everything is attached as it should be including the alligator clip ground to the scoreboard grounds.

I should again note that all coils work in test so it's very unlikely to be a power issue. It probably is something related to the MPU but I have no idea what.

#1660 1 year ago

Okay, did the machine work before you purchased it or did you buy it as is, i have a weebly mpu and they are great, so it sounds like a wiring issue with possibly one of the connectors on the mpu, the wires on the connectors on that game usually are pinched between the ends of the terminals and sometimes they make a bad connection, i had that problem on one of my xenon's, the top saucer wasn't working, but it didn't even work in solenoid test mode, if nothing else, i would check the switch settings on the weebly board, you need a toothpick to move them, but again, i have to ask was the machine working at any time before you purchased it

#1661 1 year ago

It was not. Seller claimed it was the rectifier board so I replaced it and same issue. Seller admitted he actually didn't know what was wrong.

#1662 1 year ago

When you say rectifier board, i am assuming you mean the power supply board attached to the transformer with the fuses on it, that basically supplies power to the game, the board that is probably the one causing your issues could be the solenoid drive board, seeing how the mpu is new, if you had a spare, i would suggest you swap it out, but i have a feeling it sounds more like a wiring or connector issue, alltek makes a replacement solenoid driver board and their stuff is bulletproof, keep me posted on how you make out

#1663 1 year ago

One last thing, are the dip switches for the game set up correctly on the weebly mpu, for paragon, the dip switch configuration is on, on, off, on, on, off, off, on, that is assuming it is set up for six digit displays

#1664 1 year ago

On older Ballys and Sterns like this I always replace the rectifier board and the three connectors on the rectifier board. The mpu is new so your problem is probably the connectors between the mpu and day. I suggest reflowing the solder on the header pins on both boards and replacing the crimp pins on the wires. Replacing the plastic connectors is optional.

#1665 1 year ago
Quoted from bluespin:

On older Ballys and Sterns like this I always replace the rectifier board and the three connectors on the rectifier board. The mpu is new so your problem is probably the connectors between the mpu and day. I suggest reflowing the solder on the header pins on both boards and replacing the crimp pins on the wires. Replacing the plastic connectors is optional.

This /\ is the way

#1666 1 year ago

Is there a method for testing the pins with a multimeter? Re-pinning all of those connectors, which have a LOT of pins is going to be quite laborious so hoping maybe I could test the pins and just replace those coming up no good?

#1667 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Is there a method for testing the pins with a multimeter? Re-pinning all of those connectors, which have a LOT of pins is going to be quite laborious so hoping maybe I could test the pins and just replace those coming up no good?

If you plan on keeping the game, then repin all the connectors. It is laborious, but it needs it. It takes about 1 minute per pin.

#1668 1 year ago

Repinning is the way. It's tedious. But it's the way.

#1669 1 year ago

I got a reply in another thread that suggested it could be a tilt short which I guess can cause these issues. So I fired up a game and the tilt light does indeed come on. But as none of the tilts are physically activated how do you remove them from the equation? Can I just unsolder the wires to them temporarily?

#1670 1 year ago

That would be the hard way to do it, aside from the whole tilt mechanism on the left side, the ball, the plumb bob, you have a slam switch on the coin door and one under the playfield, i would unplug the connector for the coin door first and see if it goes away and if not, check the wiring to all the other tilt mechs, especially the wire to the plumb bob, it can easily short against the parts on the frame, it should be soldered to the top of the rod to the plumb and not dangling loose

#1671 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I got a reply in another thread that suggested it could be a tilt short which I guess can cause these issues. So I fired up a game and the tilt light does indeed come on. But as none of the tilts are physically activated how do you remove them from the equation? Can I just unsolder the wires to them temporarily?

Make sure the roll ball tilt isn't stuck forward. Happened to me.

#1672 1 year ago

Each wire needs a crimp and it takes two crimps to attach the crimp to the pin. Old school way is using a crimp tool that only makes one crimp at a time and you have to eyeball the crimp. Buying a ratcheting crimper allows you to make two crimps at the same time and makes it almost foolproof.

Here’s a YouTube video explaining how to crimp using a ratcheting crimper.

Pinsider rockwell runs www.wirebot.com and sells a lot of pinball related electrical parts; crimp pins, housings, header pins, ratcheting crimpers, ground braid, etc.

#1673 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:I got a reply in another thread that suggested it could be a tilt short which I guess can cause these issues. So I fired up a game and the tilt light does indeed come on. But as none of the tilts are physically activated how do you remove them from the equation? Can I just unsolder the wires to them temporarily?

Quoted from JethroP:

You may have a bad capacitor at one of the tilt switches. Try clipping one of the legs on each of the capacitors at the tilt switches and see it it solves that problem.

I’d clip the leg on the capacitor attached to the regular tilt on the left. That problem has been solved several times with just that fix.

#1674 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

No. Made my own. Yoppsicles cost about $1 each. Do the same with an SMD LED and resistor for about 5 cents each! Outcome is the same....no more crummy sockets to contend with, and LED's that last forever. Save some money!

Would you mind posting a picture of how you did this? I'm tired of battling these sockets.

#1675 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Would you mind posting a picture of how you did this? I'm tired of battling these sockets.

PM me your email and I'll send you a couple videos.

#1676 1 year ago

What would you guys do with this hack wiring? It works well but really annoys me. This game is quickly becoming my favorite of all time btw!

20230331_114017 (resized).jpg20230331_114017 (resized).jpg
#1677 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

What would you guys do with this hack wiring?

Get rid of it and put it back to factory.

#1678 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Get rid of it and put it back to factory.

What would the difficulty level be? I've never tackled something like this. It looks like he just clipped one of the cabinet switch wires and connected it straight to the coil lug. I don't understand why he would have done this.

20230403_104406 (resized).jpg20230403_104406 (resized).jpg
#1679 1 year ago

There's probably a problem with the flipper relay circuit on the solenoid driver board, so they hacked it the way they could. (i.e. wrong)

#1680 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

There's probably a problem with the flipper relay circuit on the solenoid driver board, so they hacked it the way they could. (i.e. wrong)

I'm sure you're right @slochar. Only one way to find out!

#1681 1 year ago

I'm guessing an open solder connection to or a bad flipper relay.

#1682 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Get rid of it and put it back to factory.

I repaired the original wiring and the flippers work perfectly. I have no idea why the PO's repair guy did the jumper hack. He also left a cigarette butt in the coin box area so he clearly wasn't the most meticulous. Thanks for the push @slochar.

#1683 1 year ago

This ramp! It keeps on coming off the poles that are supposed to hold it in place. I’m half venting, half looking for any suggestions/improvements to make this frigging ramp hold! I have the double screw ms underneath to apply pressure on these white poles, yet after a few games, it falls off its position.
I must not be the only one swearing at it?!?!

E0441BF0-2E6A-4D73-913C-A581D25B02EC (resized).jpegE0441BF0-2E6A-4D73-913C-A581D25B02EC (resized).jpeg

#1684 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

This ramp! It keeps on coming off the poles that are supposed to hold it in place. I’m half venting, half looking for any suggestions/improvements to make this frigging ramp hold! I have the double screw ms underneath to apply pressure on these white poles, yet after a few games, it falls off its position.
I must not be the only one swearing at it?!?!
[quoted image]

No ideas to help you with your problem, but i noticed it looks like this leaf switch blade is on the wrong side of the rubber ring.

Screenshot_20230405-201724_Firefox.jpgScreenshot_20230405-201724_Firefox.jpg

#1685 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

This ramp! It keeps on coming off the poles that are supposed to hold it in place. I’m half venting, half looking for any suggestions/improvements to make this frigging ramp hold! I have the double screw ms underneath to apply pressure on these white poles, yet after a few games, it falls off its position.
I must not be the only one swearing at it?!?!
[quoted image]

The steel rod needs to be bent to the exact curvature to rest in the groove of the posts (clamps). I'm guessing you have some "spring" in that rod that makes it want to pop out of the post clamps. Also, do you have the top and bottom post sections positioned to clamp the rod? They have a lip to hold the rod in place.

#1686 1 year ago

Thanks JethroP !

I'm pretty sure that the "posts" I was referring to are the one you mentioned. They have two parts and have the their lip section and, in my opinion, are absolutely supposed to clamp on that ramp but it doesn't seem to be enough to hold it in place. This steel rod was a problem before I did the pf swap and is still an issue now.

As for the curvature, do you recommend to just bend it by hand to force the "curve" back into position? Is this rod something that is easy to buy if this one would snap in my hand?

Quoted from JethroP:

The steel rod needs to be bent to the exact curvature to rest in the groove of the posts (clamps). I'm guessing you have some "spring" in that rod that makes it want to pop out of the post clamps. Also, do you have the top and bottom post sections positioned to clamp the rod? They have a lip to hold the rod in place.

#1687 1 year ago

Just back flex it little by litlle till there is enough tension to keep it against the post more. You don't want to put a kink in it.

#1688 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

This ramp! It keeps on coming off the poles that are supposed to hold it in place. I’m half venting, half looking for any suggestions/improvements to make this frigging ramp hold! I have the double screw ms underneath to apply pressure on these white poles, yet after a few games, it falls off its position.
I must not be the only one swearing at it?!?!
[quoted image]

The issue when mine was doing this was there was a lot of slack where the steel rod goes into the wooden rails, or more precisely, it didn't fit tight enough between the two wooden rails and the lockdown posts. I cut a 1/4" section dowel that would fit in the groove, painted it and stuck it under the plastic on the left side, so now the rod fits tight against the posts.

#1689 1 year ago

No worries. This photo was taken from the old playfield!

Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

No ideas to help you with your problem, but i noticed it looks like this leaf switch blade is on the wrong side of the rubber ring.
[quoted image]

#1690 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

do you recommend to just bend it by hand to force the "curve" back

yes. just work it (bend it) gently until it fits all the way around and fits into those post grooves. Avoid sharp bends. Make the bends gradual. Once it lines up with the posts you should be good to clamp it.

#1691 1 year ago

I need a Paragon in my life one day. I always have fun on that machine.

#1692 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

The steel rod needs to be bent to the exact curvature to rest in the groove of the posts (clamps). I'm guessing you have some "spring" in that rod that makes it want to pop out of the post clamps. Also, do you have the top and bottom post sections positioned to clamp the rod? They have a lip to hold the rod in place.

had same issue...had a friend pull the metal rod up into position and held it there, then install wood screw at the end(just one side)
of it to keep it tight.

wood rails also might be bowed outward?

#1693 1 year ago
Quoted from Randy_G:

had same issue...had a friend pull the metal rod up into position and held it there, then install wood screw at the end(just one side)
of it to keep it tight.
wood rails also might be bowed outward?

Yeah, I think your suggestion makes sense Randy_G ! I’ll try and set it up and then lick it in place with a wood screw somewhere.
Thanks!

#1694 1 year ago

The post where the plunger link attaches to the kicker snapped on my right sling. I have 2 incomplete assemblies, one without the nylon head and one without the mounting bracket. I can either try to remove the roll pin from the nylon head and try to attach to the one without the mounting bracket, or try to remove the mounting bracket from the one without the head and mount on the one with the head. Or maybe there is a replacement mounting bracket out there I can't find. Any suggestions?

20230408_121705 (resized).jpg20230408_121705 (resized).jpg

#1695 1 year ago

I went with option d, works fine.

20230408_135208 (resized).jpg20230408_135208 (resized).jpg
#1696 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

The post where the plunger link attaches to the kicker snapped on my right sling. I have 2 incomplete assemblies, one without the nylon head and one without the mounting bracket. I can either try to remove the roll pin from the nylon head and try to attach to the one without the mounting bracket, or try to remove the mounting bracket from the one without the head and mount on the one with the head. Or maybe there is a replacement mounting bracket out there I can't find. Any suggestions?
[quoted image]

You can buy the kicker heads and replace them.

https://alamogameshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=288

There may be a free 3D print file for them also, but not sure.

#1697 1 year ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

You can buy the kicker heads and replace them.
https://alamogameshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=288
There may be a free 3D print file for them also, but not sure.

They're sold out everywhere that I've seen them listed. Also, how hard are those roll pins to get in?

#1698 1 year ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

how hard are those roll pins to get in?

I have the same question. A google search gave me some results, but I'm not sure I understand the answers (as described):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-slingshot-kicker-head

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-paragon-slingshot-kicker-head-replacement-removing-roll-pin

I found that the Paragon I just picked up had no roll pins in the slingshot kicker heads at all, when I saw one fly off during gameplay. That idea that sullivcd40 used (above) seems like a decent solution. Other than aesthetics, is there a good reason not to use the tiny zipties to secure the nylon kicker head???

#1699 1 year ago
Quoted from Dakine747:

I have the same question. A google search gave me some results, but I'm not sure I understand the answers (as described):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-slingshot-kicker-head
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-paragon-slingshot-kicker-head-replacement-removing-roll-pin
I found that the Paragon I just picked up had no roll pins in the slingshot kicker heads at all, when I saw one fly off during gameplay. That idea that sullivcd40 used (above) seems like a decent solution. Other than aesthetics, is there a good reason not to use the tiny zipties to secure the nylon kicker head???

I'm sure it's not bulletproof, I'll post back if it breaks anytime soon. Steve Young gave me the idea, he said he used to use paperclip metal to bend together a fastener when making service calls.

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