(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons

By schwarz

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 16 days ago by BigAl56
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#1301 1 year ago

That era games used a simple 8 ohm speaker for no other reason than it was cheap. Feel free to upgrade as you wish as long as its 8 ohms. (don't go too crazy, pay attention to the minimum wattage rating as that old sound board did not have much of a power output).
BTW, repositioning the speaker to the backbox facing down towards the vent will yield better sound than where it is in the cabinet.

#1302 1 year ago

Thank you! I will check Amazon etc for that ohms speaker. Just want to do this game justice since I really like this game and doing a full restoration on this. Tomorrow I plan on swapping all the parts from the old playfield to the new!

#1303 1 year ago

Don't waste your money on a high quality speaker. You're only playing dings and tones, basic sounds. In my opinion, unless your existing speaker is broken, you won't gain anything by replacing it.

#1304 1 year ago

Anyone know the if there is a story/history with the backglass art. I keep looking at it as I’m doing the restoration. First,
decades ago when I played it in the arcade, I thought the guy was rescuing the girl, but now, he just seems to be riding the chimera’s back and is going to sacrifice the lady. Thoughts?

#1305 1 year ago
Quoted from jetmechinnc:

Anyone know the if there is a story/history with the backglass art. I keep looking at it as I’m doing the restoration. First,
decades ago when I played it in the arcade, I thought the guy was rescuing the girl, but now, he just seems to be riding the chimera’s back and is going to sacrifice the lady. Thoughts?

He is going to kill the beast to save the girl.

#1306 1 year ago
Quoted from jetmechinnc:

anyone know the if there is a story/history with the backglass art.

Paul Faris has been interviewed many times over the years. I know the characters are drawn from him and his wife. I can't remember the story other than it was a fantasy setting. After Bally, Paul started his own art studio named for Paragon. He is a frequent guest at Expo in Chicago. Next time I run into him I'll ask.

#1307 1 year ago

As someone completed a Paragon playfield swap would be willing to comment if it was a very complicated job? It’s a fairly simple game and I only have mechanical experience. A bit daunted by the electrical work.
All comments welcomed!
Thanks!

#1308 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

As someone completed a Paragon playfield swap would be willing to comment if it was a very complicated job? It’s a fairly simple game and I only have mechanical experience. A bit daunted by the electrical work.
All comments welcomed!
Thanks!

No problem. Very little in terms of electrical. My recommendation would be to remove everything from the playfield while keeping all the wires still soldered to the mechs. Then slide a piece of plywood under everything to keep it all in the roughly the same place and remove the plywood. Then reverse it on the new playfield. Honestly the trickiest part for me was removing all the staples for the ground wires, it was just time consuming.

I would also recommend that you take a picture of everything you remove while pointing to what you removed. This way when you reassemble simple go through the pictures in reverse on a monitor and it will essentially be a reassembly guide.

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#1309 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Honestly the trickiest part for me was removing all the staples for the ground wires, it was just time consuming.

As killerrobots says, it's pretty straightforward. But be aware: There are three different bare wires stapled onto the playfield: Switched illumination power, GI power, and GI return. Of these three, only the GI return is actually ground. Be sure to keep track of which insulated wires from the backbox each bare wire is supposed to connect to, and be sure that two different bare wires don't touch, unless they were originally touching on the old playfield.

#1310 1 year ago

Like RoyGBev said as well as killerrobots, take lots of pictures, I use cardboard to slide out all the mechs/wires from the old to new play fields. The biggest bitch is removing the 40000000 staples the old solid states games had. Think there was 5 million staples on a Bally Kiss I did. I use an furniture staple gun with a long reach nose to staple the wires back as needed. You may need a small barrel sander for the pop bumpers base to go in and or a dremel for a few spots. Sharp drill bits as needed to pre drill holes, fine sand paper to sand the rollovers incase there was some clear coat in the gaps so the star can move freely,but pretty standard.

Also I use a sharpie as needed to mark light sockets or wire runs incase things get tangled, you have a quick reference.

At least the play field on these older solid state games are light and easy to maneuver compared to the WPC games Ive done.

#1311 1 year ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

As killerrobots says, it's pretty straightforward. But be aware: There are three different bare wires stapled onto the playfield: Switched illumination power, GI power, and GI return. Of these three, only the GI return is actually ground. Be sure to keep track of which insulated wires from the backbox each bare wire is supposed to connect to, and be sure that two different bare wires don't touch, unless they were originally touching on the old playfield.

I didn't know that about the ground/bare wires. Thanks for the head up.

#1312 1 year ago

Just got the repainted cabinet finished and put back together from my "Looney Toones" retheme and thought I would show it off with the new playfield.

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What the heck would you guys do with the old playfield, glass and plastics? I don't really want to throw them away but I can't think of a use for them.

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#1313 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Just got the repainted cabinet finished and put back together from my "Looney Toones" retheme and thought I would show it off with the new playfield.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
What the heck would you guys do with the old playfield, glass and plastics? I don't really want to throw them away but I can't think of a use for them.
[quoted image]
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You could try a bit of paint stripper on everything first, like citrus strip, and see if you can remove only the "looney toons" and get back to the original artwork....an extreme longshot but worth a try. If nothing else the playfeild could be sanded down to bare wood and hardtopped, everything else may be unsalvageable.

#1314 1 year ago

Spotted Paragon at the Rink-O-Mania , Stranger Things Season 4 , Ep 2, 22:58 mark

#1315 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

You could try a bit of paint stripper on everything first, like citrus strip, and see if you can remove only the "looney toons" and get back to the original artwork....an extreme longshot but worth a try. If nothing else the playfeild could be sanded down to bare wood and hardtopped, everything else may be unsalvageable.

When I first got the machine I was a little shocked someone would paint over a paragon but after disassembly of the playfield there were a couple of areas where the original artwork remains and it appears to be in rough shape. I am guessing it would have required a fully new playfield even if it wasn't painted. I might try stripping it to see what is there. I suppose it is possible a stripper might only effect the new paint but there would be no guarantee any original would remain. The paint is pretty thick and hard and some kind of varnish or urethane is on top as well. I think the backglass is pretty much a lost cause as there will be no original art to recover.

#1316 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

You could try a bit of paint stripper on everything first, like citrus strip, and see if you can remove only the "looney toons" and get back to the original artwork....an extreme longshot but worth a try. If nothing else the playfeild could be sanded down to bare wood and hardtopped, everything else may be unsalvageable.

To date, there is no Paragon Hardtop. Would be a day 1 order from me.

#1317 1 year ago
Quoted from Apex:

To date, there is no Paragon Hardtop. Would be a day 1 order from me.

My bad, I just assumed I guess. Bummer!

Another thought, could the playfeild be sanded down and sent into CPR for them to print/paint (whatever process they use) a new playfeild on? It could be worth checking out.

#1318 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

My bad, I just assumed I guess. Bummer!
Another thought, could the playfeild be sanded down and sent into CPR for them to print/paint (whatever process they use) a new playfeild on? It could be worth checking out.

There is a vinyl decal you can get on ebay which I could use for say a wall-art project but it is like $250 and that seems kind of a lot for something that just hangs on a wall.

#1319 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

There is a vinyl decal you can get on ebay which I could use for say a wall-art project but it is like $250 and that seems kind of a lot for something that just hangs on a wall.

I still wonder if CPR would redo the playfeild if you sent it to them. I would think it would be a reduced cost since you're supplying the playfield? May not be worth it to you but you could always sell your playfield as is. In this hobby I'm sure someone else may want to go that route to possibly save money on a "new" playfield.

#1320 1 year ago

Duplicate post

#1321 1 year ago

I have heard of people sending in their old playfield to have cpr rescreen it. That was when they would tool up for a run, not sure how it would work with the digital process they do now.

#1322 1 year ago

Question for the Bally gurus. I never noticed before and I know it's not standard but my Paragon flippers work as soon as the game boots as its in attract mode. Is this bad? Do I need to fix something? Is it a precursor for something going out? I don't see any other notable issues.

What do you guys think?

#1323 1 year ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Question for the Bally gurus. I never noticed before and I know it's not standard but my Paragon flippers work as soon as the game boots as its in attract mode. Is this bad? Do I need to fix something? Is it a precursor for something going out? I don't see any other notable issues.
What do you guys think?

That's not normal. I'd check Q15 on the driver board for starters. Could be a bad relay as well.

#1324 1 year ago

I was troubleshooting my game today and found this burned out connector on the rectifier.
Do you think it will be good enough to re-pin the connector? Or should I replace the board with a brand new one?

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#1325 1 year ago
Quoted from Ryguy25:

I was troubleshooting my game today and found this burned out connector on the rectifier.
Do you think it will be good enough to re-pin the connector? Or should I replace the board with a brand new one?[quoted image][quoted image]

If you don't want to replace the whole board yet, just rebuild the connector and replace the header pins.

But if it were me, Id just install a new rectifier board from xpin or big daddy.
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/XPINPowerSupplyBoards.html

#1326 1 year ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

If you don't want to replace the whole board yet, just rebuild the connector and replace the header pins.
But if it were me, Id just install a new rectifier board from xpin or big daddy.
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/XPINPowerSupplyBoards.html

Pinball Life also makes a good board. https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PBL-100-0070-00

#1327 1 year ago

Or if you have soldering skills and want to attempt rebuilding the complete board and/or just what's needed you can buy a rebuild power supply kit also from Big Daddy. http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/

#1328 1 year ago

If you can solder, you can buy the rectifier board kit for $35. It's good quality.
https://nvram.weebly.com

#1329 1 year ago

Replacing the entire board is a big project with potential for a major screwup. I would avoid it if possible. Burned connectors are normal wear and tear for Bally games of this era. Since the rest of the boards look good I would follow the advice above and order a connector kit from BD. While there, pick up a good solder sucker and crimp tool if you don't already have those.

#1330 1 year ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Replacing the entire board is a big project with potential for a major screwup. I would avoid it if …

Hey guys thanks for the advice. My initial thought was that replacing the board with a “solderless” board from BD would be the easiest.
If I replace the pins myself using a rebuild kit, the board would have to come out anyway because those pins must be soldered into the board, correct?
So it seems to me that either option involves cutting off the wires on the back side of the board. Am I misunderstanding?
I do have soldering skills, I just haven’t done this particular job before.

#1331 1 year ago
Quoted from Ryguy25:

So it seems to me that either option involves cutting off the wires on the back side of the board. Am I misunderstanding?

You can do it with the wires in place you just pull the board off the standoffs and flip it. Not too easy to do.

Personally, I'd replace it with the weebly kit form. You're soldering anyway.

The potential for screwup is not the soldering itself, it's putting the wires from the transformer in the wrong spot. You can do them one at a time.

#1332 1 year ago
Quoted from Ryguy25:

I was troubleshooting my game today and found this burned out connector on the rectifier.
Do you think it will be good enough to re-pin the connector? Or should I replace the board with a brand new one?[quoted image][quoted image]

I recently replaced my bridge rectifier board with one from pinball life. I had a bad bridge rectifier and burnt connectors like yours. If your going to rebuild your board you'll have to remove it from the game anyway so you might as well replace the whole thing.

It really wasn't that bad at all; fairly easy honestly. Take your time and label every wire before you cut them from the back of the old board; Double checking that they are labeled correctly. Then strip and tin each wire. Next solder each wire into the back of the new board. The board from pinball life has almost identical layout as the old board, and everything is clearly labeled, so it's not that difficult at all.

#1333 1 year ago

Jesus, you are so talented! Well done!

Just got the repainted cabinet finished and put back together from my "Looney Toones" retheme and thought I would show it off with the new playfield.
[quoted image]
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#1334 1 year ago

I have this round looking thing on the MPU board of my Paragon: is this a battery? Never seen anything like this...

And the "socket" where I would install a NVRAM seems to already have a chip there: how would that work?

Thanks for your input!

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#1335 1 year ago

Thanks for the reply @killerrobots. Ideally, I think I would like to have the braid cleaned and all the components tumbled, so I guess it would be a longer, more involved process... My cabinet looks like crap, so it would be quite the project, overall. Thanks for sharing your process! And yes to taking photos of everything in details!

Quoted from killerrobots:

No problem. Very little in terms of electrical. My recommendation would be to remove everything from the playfield while keeping all the wires still soldered to the mechs. Then slide a piece of plywood under everything to keep it all in the roughly the same place and remove the plywood. Then reverse it on the new playfield. Honestly the trickiest part for me was removing all the staples for the ground wires, it was just time consuming.
I would also recommend that you take a picture of everything you remove while pointing to what you removed. This way when you reassemble simple go through the pictures in reverse on a monitor and it will essentially be a reassembly guide.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

#1336 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

I have this round looking thing on the MPU board of my Paragon: is this a battery? Never seen anything like this...
And the "socket" where I would install a NVRAM seems to already have a chip there: how would that work?
Thanks for your input!
[quoted image]

The round thing is a capacitor/battery. If you want to install NVRAM, it will go where that chip is, and you can remove the capacitor/battery.

#1337 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

The round thing is a capacitor/battery. If you want to install NVRAM, it will go where that chip is, and you can remove the capacitor/battery.

Thanks JethroP , but that TP6 chip seems to already be taken. Does the NVRAM goes on top of it or do I need take that chip out?
Thanks.

#1338 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

Thanks JethroP , but that TP6 chip seems to already be taken. Does the NVRAM goes on top of it or do I need take that chip out?
Thanks.

That is not TP6 chip. TP6 is Test Point 6. The chip is U8. If you are installing NVRAM you would remove U8 chip and replace with the NVRAM. Be aware that the orientation of the chip/NVRAM is critical. There is a notch at one end of the chip. Needs to be plugged in same as the one you remove. The notch is also printed on the circuit board on the chip layout.

#1339 1 year ago

Just curious...why are you looking to replace what you have?

#1340 1 year ago

I just installed NVRAM on mine. Only took a few minutes. I order a special chip puller thingy when I ordered the NVRAM and it worked great.

The person I bought my Paragon from earlier this year had installed a remote battery holder. I never bothered checking the batteries because I assumed they were new, lesson learned. Expiration date on the leaking one is 2025.

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#1341 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

I never bothered checking the batteries because I assumed they were new, lesson learned. Expiration date on the leaking one is 2025.

I see the leaking battery was a different manufacturer than the other two. That's often a recipe for disaster (leaking). Always replace batteries as a set, same manufacturer and expiration date!

#1342 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I see the leaking battery was a different manufacturer than the other two. That's often a recipe for disaster (leaking). Always replace batteries as a set, same manufacturer and expiration date! Also one of the batteries was installed backwards!

They were installed correctly; I just pulled them all out to check each one and set them back in like that before I snapped a quick picture. I should've known someone would notice that, Good eye!

#1343 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

They were installed correctly; I just pulled them all out to check each one and set them back in like that before I snapped a quick picture. I should've known someone would notice that, Good eye!

Haha, I edited my post almost immediately thinking that's what you might have done. You replied quickly!

#1344 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Haha, I edited my post almost immediately thinking that's what you might have done. You replied quickly!

Ha! Sorry. I was actually thinking of editing my post to state that, then I saw your reply and responded to that instead. Someone else probably would've noticed it and said something if it wasn't already pointed out. Lots of eagle eyed people on here!

#1345 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Just got the repainted cabinet finished

Did you paint it with a spray cans or a gun? Looks like it is clear coated with all the light reflections. Once I finish sanding down my cabinet, was planning on spraying it and clear coating the cabinet , just need to talk with the guys at the paint shop to see how long I have between when I can put the stencils over existing paint and clear coating.

If this works. Will be my first game clear coating it. Have done a car before, but that was only one color with no masking needed since I had it completely disassembled. All I had to do was paint the one color, wait about 10-40 minutes and spray clear if I remember correctly.

#1346 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Just curious...why are you looking to replace what you have?

Agreed. I installed a capacitor as a battery replacement on my Paragon years ago, back when NVRAM solutions were less readily available and more expensive. It has worked flawlessly for years. The only real issue to be mindful of is that if you leave your game off for a period of months, you will likely loose your settings. That's never been an issue for me, as I play this beast regularly.

#1347 1 year ago
Quoted from jetmechinnc:

Did you paint it with a spray cans or a gun? Looks like it is clear coated with all the light reflections. Once I finish sanding down my cabinet, was planning on spraying it and clear coating the cabinet , just need to talk with the guys at the paint shop to see how long I have between when I can put the stencils over existing paint and clear coating.
If this works. Will be my first game clear coating it. Have done a car before, but that was only one color with no masking needed since I had it completely disassembled. All I had to do was paint the one color, wait about 10-40 minutes and spray clear if I remember correctly.

I followed the instructions from the stencil and it recommends spray cans. I would recommend the basic Rustoleum. The 2x simply dried too quickly and I got tearing when I removed the stencil. I would do the surface horizontally (if not obvious), fully sand and prep the cabinet with bondo and wood filler. Then primer and sand the primer. Then do all the yellow. Let it dry for 24 hours at least. Then apply the red stencil, wrap the rest of the cabinet to protect from overspray and spray. Wait maybe 2-3 minutes and start pulling off the masking around the cabinet and around 5 minutes start pulling off the stencil. Have a pair of scissors in your pocket so you can cut dangling pieces. If you let it dry too much it will tear. If it tears spray some of the paint in a container and touch up with a brush. If a big area is goofed up (I had a piece of plastic fall on a section) then apply frisket after it has dried. Cut around the area and respray the whole area.

There is no clear coat at all. It is glossy paint and it looks great.

I clear coat playfields all the time but I don't think it is necessary here personally.

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#1348 1 year ago

Hey two small technical question for you guys. I am reassembling my playfield and replacing the insert lights with Yoppsicles. However the GIs that protrude through the playfield can't really be replaced. Can I put LED bulbs in these or do I need some kind of adaptor for them to work?

The second question is on all of my pop bumper switches (spoons) there is a capacitor that has been cut? Do I need to replace them? Is there a good reason they are cut?

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#1349 1 year ago

LEDs in the GI sockets are fine as is.

And, yes, you should have caps on the pop bumper switches. Otherwise, you risk having fast switch hits not register. They likely shorted out and an operator cut them out of convenience long ago. Most people wouldn’t notice on location, but in a home setting, you want to maximize performance.

#1350 1 year ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

LEDs in the GI sockets are fine as is.
And, yes, you should have caps on the pop bumper switches. Otherwise, you risk having fast switch hits not register. They likely shorted out and an operator cut them out of convenience long ago. Most people wouldn’t notice on location, but in a home setting, you want maximize performance.

Perfect thanks. By chance do you know what kind of caps they are?

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