(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons

By schwarz

10 years ago


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  • 1,882 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 17 days ago by BigAl56
  • Topic is favorited by 113 Pinsiders

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12 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 1,882 posts in this topic. You are on page 26 of 38.
#1251 1 year ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I actually think it’s a cool piece of history. It adds to the uniqueness and authenticity of your particular game.

You know what?
I’m gonna call that number and find out if they’re still around…..

#1252 1 year ago
Quoted from MyParagon1979:

You know what?
I’m gonna call that number and find out if they’re still around…..

Ha! There you go. That’s the spirit!

You should have called them long ago. They would have had your game up and running in no time.

#1253 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

3 bank of death drop targets. No one ever shoots for those on purpose.... risk not worth the reward.

I like hitting the drop targets and landing in the paragon saucer.

#1254 1 year ago
Quoted from Poida:

I like hitting the drop targets and landing in the paragon saucer.

I think he’s talking about the other bank of drop targets on the right.

#1255 1 year ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I think he’s talking about the other bank of drop targets on the right.

Yep.

#1256 1 year ago

For some unknown reason, a previous owner painted the back box trim black. I got tired of looking at it and decided to repaint it. After trying to color match the faded yellow and not liking how it turned out I decided to go with a bright yellow. Its definitely an improvement and I'm liking how it looks with the backglass. looks like I have to do the whole cabinet now!

20220604_222004 (resized).jpg20220604_222004 (resized).jpg20220604_222122 (resized).jpg20220604_222122 (resized).jpg

#1257 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

For some unknown reason, a previous owner painted the back box trim black. I got tired of looking at it and decided to repaint it. After trying to color match the faded yellow and not liking how it turned out I decided to go with a bright yellow. Its definitely an improvement and I'm liking how it looks with the backglass. looks like I have to do the whole cabinet now!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Looks soooooooo much better.
Maybe consider adding some speckling to the yellow for a bit of old school charm?

#1258 1 year ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Ha! There you go. That’s the spirit!
You should have called them long ago. They would have had your game up and running in no time.

Update….
I called the number and looked up online. The ACA pinball repair is no longer around.
So, now I’m thinking I agree that it’s a bit of old time charm, and most likely this was a servicing contract when it was routed.

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#1259 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

For some unknown reason, a previous owner painted the back box trim black. I got tired of looking at it and decided to repaint it. After trying to color match the faded yellow and not liking how it turned out I decided to go with a bright yellow. Its definitely an improvement and I'm liking how it looks with the backglass. looks like I have to do the whole cabinet now!

When I finally get around to the cabinet (lots of things to do on my project before that point) I'm definitely taking this route. I think this looks incredible with the backglass colors.

2 weeks later
#1260 1 year ago

Anyone working on Paragon rules updates with that Bally/Stern OS from Dick Hammil? Is there a way to make the game multiball? Would be cool since there are 3 saucers that could act as a lock.

#1261 1 year ago

I picked up a project Paragon a little while back that someone in the past had "lovingly" rethemed to a Looney Toones pin. Just started to tear it apart today to take it back to a Paragon. Wish me luck...

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#1262 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

I picked up a project Paragon a little while back that someone in the past had "lovingly" rethemed to a Looney Toones pin. Just started to tear it apart today to take it back to a Paragon. Wish me luck...
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Yikes! That needs to go in the pinball horrors thread.

#1263 1 year ago

Wishing you good luck.

Are you going to remove the toon art work or just replace the playfield with a new one?

#1264 1 year ago
Quoted from Biju:

1-11/16" x 1/2"

Bally OEM sleeve.

Quoted from Biju:

1-3/4" x 1/2

Williams OEM sleeve

Note:
Knocker coil AR-26-1200 coil sleeve.
-- Part # C-830 / Williams Part #03-7067-3.

#1265 1 year ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Anyone working on Paragon rules updates with that Bally/Stern OS from Dick Hammil? Is there a way to make the game multiball? Would be cool since there are 3 saucers that could act as a lock.

Need Multi-ball mechanisms / Outhole parts redesign.
Also playfield routing.

#1266 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikespinball:

Wishing you good luck.
Are you going to remove the toon art work or just replace the playfield with a new one?

New playfield and new backglass, I have repainted a few playfields but without any original art there is no way. Also the paint is really thick with some ugly yellow polyurethane on top. I am contemplating what I will do with the old playfield. I might sand it and get a cheap decal on ebay and use as a wall hanging but I am not sure. I will repaint the cabinet using stencils.

#1267 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

I picked up a project Paragon a little while back that someone in the past had "lovingly" rethemed to a Looney Toones pin. Just started to tear it apart today to take it back to a Paragon. Wish me luck...
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Wow! Good luck! Looks like someone went to an Insane amount of trouble to go looney toons

#1268 1 year ago

HAHA!! I saw that one a little while back on a different thread, I was wondering if the proud new owner would make an appearance here. Whoever did that totally went all in, It's hideous for sure, but they really committed. Keep us updated on the re-transformation process of bringing this monstrosity back to its' former glory!

#1269 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

HAHA!! I saw that one a little while back on a different thread, I was wondering if the proud new owner would make an appearance here. Whoever did that totally went all in, It's hideous for sure, but they really committed. Keep us updated on the re-transformation process of bringing this monstrosity back to its' former glory!

Yeah I was looking for a project pin and have always wanted a Paragon. So far it has pretty much just been an exercise in spending money for pretty much new everything. I am finding out it was a pretty tired Paragon even before it was rethemed.

#1270 1 year ago

Does anyone have a part number for the two red switch targets? I downloaded the manual but it doesn't have any part numbers.

Also are those white clamping posts at the back that hold the curved rod unobtainium? I can't seem to find any and saw some posts about 3D printing.

#1271 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

are those white clamping posts at the back that hold the curved rod unobtainium? I can't seem to find any and saw some posts about 3D printing.

Bally part #
1) C-907 Bottom Rail Post.
2) C-908 Rail Post Cap.
NLA
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjI66eLmMn4AhUsD0QIHfoXDy4QFnoECAUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpinside.com%2Fpinball%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2Fc-907-and-c-908-ball-guide-rail-post-bally-3d-print-file&usg=AOvVaw0amoaZcZ47MshgUf_trhsi

#1272 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Does anyone have a part number for the two red switch targets? I downloaded the manual but it doesn't have any part numbers.

Bally part #
1) ASE-2911-3
Complete Bracket/Diode/Switch Assembly, Round Red Target Face.
2) ASE-2911-19
Complete Bracket/Diode/Switch Assembly, Square Red Target Face.

#1273 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Bally part #
1) ASE-2911-3
Complete Bracket/Diode/Switch Assembly, Round Red Target Face.
2) ASE-2911-19
Complete Bracket/Diode/Switch Assembly, Square Red Target Face.

Perfect thanks.

#1274 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Yeah I was looking for a project pin and have always wanted a Paragon. So far it has pretty much just been an exercise in spending money for pretty much new everything. I am finding out it was a pretty tired Paragon even before it was rethemed.

I can relate to that. I bought my paragon about three months ago. I've been slowly going through and refurbishing the whole thing. She was in pretty rough shape. It's a fun game and relatively easy to work on.

#1276 1 year ago

CPR is showing Paragon in stock. Probably you are going to need the works, playfield, plastics, and backglass.
I'm guessing the game was in a family location like Chuck E Cheese or something like that. The original art is a bit erotic, so somebody spared no expense to tone it down.

#1277 1 year ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

CPR is showing Paragon in stock. Probably you are going to need the works, playfield, plastics, and backglass.
I'm guessing the game was in a family location like Chuck E Cheese or something like that. The original art is a bit erotic, so somebody spared no expense to tone it down.

I already have the playfield, new plastics, and a new backglass. I also just got my order from Marco to restore all the playfield mechs. Just finished depopulating the playfield and the cabinet. I am going to focus on the cabinet repainting while it is warm.

I do have one question for the group as I am not very experienced with this era of game. I got a full rebuild kit from Marco for the flippers as they are pretty tired. Everything seems okay except the EOS switch which doesn't match the original. Is this an upgrade or just the wrong part? If it is an upgrade how does the wiring work as the old one has four leads?

0629221012 (resized).jpg0629221012 (resized).jpg0629221012a (resized).jpg0629221012a (resized).jpg
#1278 1 year ago

Also, since I have to repopulate everything to the new playfield would it be ideal to replace the lamp sockets with Yoppsicle's? I have heard the sockets are problematic.

#1279 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Also, since I have to repopulate everything to the new playfield would it be ideal to replace the lamp sockets with Yoppsicle's? I have heard the sockets are problematic.

I would. The sockets usually need extensive cleaning and bulletproofing (which doesn't always work) and you have to replace them anyway.

Quoted from killerrobots:

Everything seems okay except the EOS switch which doesn't match the original. Is this an upgrade or just the wrong part? If it is an upgrade how does the wiring work as the old one has four leads?

I happen to use that EOS switch (I knew that it was a 03-7811 without looking at your marco bag) but you have to modify the way it works on multi flipper games, or get some extra parts. The modified way makes both flippers on a side flip at the same exact time; this puts some stress on the electric system in the game (i.e. could blow a fuse), BUT the flipper response time for both sets is the best. The original stacked design passes the voltage to the other flipper in a set once the primary flipper end of stroke is either all the way open, or starting to open, so there's a split second hesitation before that upper flipper reacts. I happen to NOT like that, so even on games that have that extra switch in there to pass the voltage, I tend to adjust it closed anyway.

If you want to do it that way, you just parallel the solenoid voltage wire from one flipper to the next, instead of it going through that secondary EOS (You can just take the wire off the jumper switch and put it on the coil on the lug with the power feed).

If not, you need to get the secondary switch.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ASW-A10-45 or
https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-secondary-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-open.html

#1280 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

I would. The sockets usually need extensive cleaning and bulletproofing (which doesn't always work) and you have to replace them anyway.

I happen to use that EOS switch (I knew that it was a 03-7811 without looking at your marco bag) but you have to modify the way it works on multi flipper games, or get some extra parts. The modified way makes both flippers on a side flip at the same exact time; this puts some stress on the electric system in the game (i.e. could blow a fuse), BUT the flipper response time for both sets is the best. The original stacked design passes the voltage to the other flipper in a set once the primary flipper end of stroke is either all the way open, or starting to open, so there's a split second hesitation before that upper flipper reacts. I happen to NOT like that, so even on games that have that extra switch in there to pass the voltage, I tend to adjust it closed anyway.
If you want to do it that way, you just parallel the solenoid voltage wire from one flipper to the next, instead of it going through that secondary EOS (You can just take the wire off the jumper switch and put it on the coil on the lug with the power feed).
If not, you need to get the secondary switch.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ASW-A10-45 or
https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-secondary-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-open.html

That is very helpful, thanks. I think I will try the simultaneous method with one switch. So just to be clear (I am sometimes a little dense with electrical stuff), in this setup:

0629221340 (resized).jpg0629221340 (resized).jpg

I add the single switch to the main flipper and then connect the white lead which was on the other switch and solder it to the orange lug on the coil. It seems I will has have a redundant orange jumper which I can remove.

0629221342 (resized).jpg0629221342 (resized).jpg

#1281 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

I add the single switch to the main flipper and then connect the white lead which was on the other switch and solder it to the orange lug on the coil. It seems I will has have a redundant orange jumper which I can remove.

Yes, or you can just connect the orange jumper and white wire together (easiest). This effectively makes the outer switch always closed (for simultaneous).

You can still do all the fancy flipper tricks (tap passing) with the wires like this. Williams games are different in that double flippers are usually controlled at the flipper button itself, which allows you to do staging (bottom flipper held up, upper flipper activates) during multiball. Same principle though, just in a different place (same reason - less stress on the fuse).

Other manuafacturers (classic stern) put a larger fuse in the solenoid circuit (on the rectifier board, not the under playfield one - the under PF isn't for the flippers anyway, it's all the other solenoids) instead of doing the double switch thing although they might do that on a couple games as well. They put a sticker on the rectifier board when this happens.

Since Bally/Stern are the essentially the same electrically you can up the fuse as well, IIRC the +43v fuse is 4a on 2 flippers, 5a on 3 flippers, and 6a on 4 flippers but I'd double check that in a couple stern manuals first.

#1282 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Yes, or you can just connect the orange jumper and white wire together (easiest). This effectively makes the outer switch always closed (for simultaneous).
You can still do all the fancy flipper tricks (tap passing) with the wires like this. Williams games are different in that double flippers are usually controlled at the flipper button itself, which allows you to do staging (bottom flipper held up, upper flipper activates) during multiball. Same principle though, just in a different place (same reason - less stress on the fuse).
Other manuafacturers (classic stern) put a larger fuse in the solenoid circuit (on the rectifier board, not the under playfield one - the under PF isn't for the flippers anyway, it's all the other solenoids) instead of doing the double switch thing although they might do that on a couple games as well. They put a sticker on the rectifier board when this happens.
Since Bally/Stern are the essentially the same electrically you can up the fuse as well, IIRC the +43v fuse is 4a on 2 flippers, 5a on 3 flippers, and 6a on 4 flippers but I'd double check that in a couple stern manuals first.

Thanks, that makes sense.

#1283 1 year ago

You should add the extra N/O switch to the lower flipper, otherwise the fuse will continuously blow. On a dual flipper assembly the inner and outer EOS switches should be adjusted break-make.

#1284 1 year ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

You should add the extra N/O switch to the lower flipper, otherwise the fuse will continuously blow. On a dual flipper assembly the inner and outer EOS switches should be adjusted break-make.

I have games that have been set up this way for years and no fuses blowing, but I don't chimp flip either (although I have to test this setup.... works just fine on big game, and eight ball deluxe, although of course EBD only has the double on one side so less of a strain). If I ever get to my project paragon I'm going to set them up without the extra switch there as well.

Nothing worse than crappy response time on the second flipper.

#1285 1 year ago

If anyone is selling a Paragon or knows someone who is, please PM me.
I would like to get one in fantastic cosmetic and working condition. A restored one would be ideal.

#1286 1 year ago

The double EOS comes into play when both flipper buttons are pressed at the same time over and over. Very common situation when kids or rookies are involved. If your game room is only visited by pros you can probably get away with not having a second EOS to activate the upper flippers. But I would only do this as a temporary wiring situation.

Quoted from slochar:

I have games that have been set up this way for years and no fuses blowing

#1287 1 year ago

Just finished stenciling the first side of my cabinet. It was a little stressful (my first one) but it came out beautiful. Kind of an amazing transformation.

Before:

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After:

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Now just four more sides to do....

#1289 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

Just finished stenciling the first side of my cabinet.

Great job! Looking pretty sweet! I'm planning on re-stenciling my machine as well later this summer, do you mind sharing what type of paint/colors you used?

#1290 1 year ago

Absolutely, but keep in mind that they are just my best guess. The blue was tough and it is hard to get clear old reference photos.

0707221403a (resized).jpg0707221403a (resized).jpg
#1291 1 year ago

It definitely is a bit hard to match the original colors when most cabinets are so faded; the red usually is a pale pink. I think the red and blue you picked out are perfect. I might go with a darker red but the bright red looks good too. The yellow is a tough one to match I think. The original is more of a pale yellow with an orangish hue to it. I painted the backbox trim on mine (you can see my post at the top of this page). I tried several yellows and decided to go with "Rustoleum Sun yellow". It's much brighter and more vibrant than the original color, and I like it a lot better.

#1292 1 year ago

I actually used the Pinball Pimp picture for reference:

storePARAGON (resized).jpgstorePARAGON (resized).jpg
#1293 1 year ago

As opposed to this one where the blue is almost black.

I still wish I had found a slightly darker blue but with spray paint there are only so many options.

image-41 (resized).jpgimage-41 (resized).jpg
#1294 1 year ago

Anyone have a restored paragon to sale, or working on one that will be sold? PM me

#1295 1 year ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

As opposed to this one where the blue is almost black.
I still wish I had found a slightly darker blue but with spray paint there are only so many options.[quoted image]

I think the blue looks good, but t regardless, it will look a million times better than what you started with!

#1296 1 year ago
Quoted from Foxxstone_80:

I think the blue looks good, but t regardless, it will look a million times better than what you started with!

For sure, props to Pinball Pimp because the stencils are amazing.

#1297 1 year ago

I am working on restoring a paragon presently, new playfield, cabinet repaint, etc. I saw on a you tube video the game with decals on the 2 stand up targets but have not found them in my search on the web. Anyone know of a target decal available for this pin?

Thank you,
Jason

#1298 1 year ago
Quoted from jetmechinnc:

I am working on restoring a paragon presently, new playfield, cabinet repaint, etc. I saw on a you tube video the game with decals on the 2 stand up targets but have not found them in my search on the web. Anyone know of a target decal available for this pin?
Thank you,
Jason

Bally OEM Drop Targets are hot stamped. The OEM square & round face targets are plain red.

#1299 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The OEM square & round face targets are plane red.

These are the ones I was looking for decals for. To add a little customization to the playfield.

1 week later
#1300 1 year ago

Is there an upgraded speaker for this pin? Or would any speaker work for the ohms needed? I know there isn’t any crazy amazing sounds, just want this cool pin to be the best it can be be once I’m done going through it.

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