(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons

By schwarz

8 years ago


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  • 200 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by Zitt
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11 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 1,030 posts in this topic. You are on page 20 of 21.
#951 6 months ago
Quoted from scruffypinball:

Whaddaya reckon a nice restore paragon is going for these days with a clear coated PF?

My last one:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/112979

#952 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Is that your actual game? Playfield looks amazing!!

Yes - thanks.

#953 6 months ago

Is that an original playfield by the way?

#954 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Is that an original playfield by the way?

Yep - it was touched up and clear coated by a previous owner.

#955 6 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

it was touched up and clear coated by a previous owner.

Well, he sure did an excellent job of it!!

1 week later
#956 5 months ago

I could use some advice...

I've finished my PF swap on my Paragon and have one problem that continues to plague me ... The upper right flipper on the bottom is lame most of the time. Note that I did a complete flipper rebuild with a new coil about a year ago but with the PF swap I replaced the flippers to a nice shiny new set. I've checked the gaps a couple of times on the switches and they seem to be reasonable. Just when I think that it is always lame, it surprises me and gives a nice kick. The lower right flipper in the set is always strong. I have confirmed that the bats are tight (set screws are tight) and are gapped the right distance from the top of the field.

Any suggestions?

#957 5 months ago
Quoted from toebes:

Any suggestions?

Suggest looking for a poor connection. Also, did you replace the EOS switches? If not, suggest you do, or check the resistance of them, or clean them (again). Maybe the switches are just not making good contact.

#958 5 months ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Suggest looking for a poor connection. Also, did you replace the EOS switches? If not, suggest you do, or check the resistance of them, or clean them (again). Maybe the switches are just not making good contact.

Good suggestion. I didn't replace them, but that's certainly next on the list. I just cleaned them again for the 5th time... but I may just pull them off completely and give them a real once over to see if it has an impact. After robotics I'll pull out the meter to see what they are like.

#959 5 months ago
Quoted from toebes:

Good suggestion. I didn't replace them, but that's certainly next on the list. I just cleaned them again for the 5th time... but I may just pull them off completely and give them a real once over to see if it has an impact. After robotics I'll pull out the meter to see what they are like.

After more cleaning I'm getting different inconsistent behavior so I pulled the trigger and ordered EOS switches to replace them all.

#960 5 months ago

Has anyone ever encountered this?
While playing on the PF swapped machine, my wife managed to hit the ball and have it jump over the second drop down target. I don't recall ever doing that before and am curious if anyone else has seen it or knows of something I may have missed in the repopulation of the playfield.

PXL_20210612_205510648 (resized).jpg
#961 5 months ago
Quoted from toebes:

Has anyone ever encountered this?
While playing on the PF swapped machine, my wife managed to hit the ball and have it jump over the second drop down target. I don't recall ever doing that before and am curious if anyone else has seen it or knows of something I may have missed in the repopulation of the playfield.
[quoted image]

This has happened to me a couple times. I bet your flippers are good and strong

#962 5 months ago

Happens to us relatively frequently.

#963 5 months ago
Quoted from Eightball88:

This has happened to me a couple times. I bet your flippers are good and strong

*phew* one less thing to worry about. Now all I need to do is replace a few of the EOS switches and clean the door so I can claim victory!

#964 5 months ago
Quoted from toebes:

Has anyone ever encountered this?

I can't tell for sure from your photo, but is the first downed target cresting a little above the playfield?

1 week later
#965 5 months ago

I have wanted a Paragon for a long time but just did not have the skills to make it happen. Then about two years ago my awesome and very talented pin buddy Bill mentioned he would be willing to climb the mountain and restore a Paragon. We spent a year or so looking for a Paragon that would be suitable found it last Fall spent the last 7-8 months on it he did 99% of the work I tried to stay out of his way. I really enjoyed stenciling the cabinet as I had never done that before and a tip of the hat to pinball pimp for making an awesome product. Paragon is now ready for prime time and playing great here are a few pics from the climb up the mountain.

paragon10 (resized).jpgparagon11 (resized).jpgparagon11 (2) (resized).jpg
#966 5 months ago

And the process begins

Paragon7 (resized).jpgparagon5 (resized).jpgparagon6 (resized).jpgparagon8 (resized).jpgparagon9 (resized).jpg
#967 5 months ago

and the end product

paragon1 (resized).jpgparagon2 (resized).jpgparagon3 (resized).jpgparagon4 (resized).jpgparagon6 (2) (resized).jpg
10
#968 5 months ago

Final Pics

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#969 5 months ago

Looks bad ass bro! Glad you liked my stencils and enjoy the game

#970 5 months ago

That is spectacular!

#971 5 months ago

Dang! I need to get me a Paragon! Such a great looking pinball machine!

1 month later
#972 3 months ago

Has anyone tried to do that reprogramming thing to add multi-ball to Paragon? It would be cool if that Treasure Chamber Saucer could lock a ball and then kick it out for multi-ball later.

#973 3 months ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Has anyone tried to do that reprogramming thing to add multi-ball to Paragon? It would be cool if that Treasure Chamber Saucer could lock a ball and then kick it out for multi-ball later.

Not for Paragon but it's been done for other games that are similar. (Nitro groundshaker, Flash, Flash Gordon, Alien Poker, probably others...)

To decide if it's 'fun' in multiball toss a second ball onto the playfield and play it a little (of course, it won't 'work' properly, but at least you can see if it shoots right)

FWIW Flash was zero fun to me in this situation (that's the only one of the 3 I played). Some games just don't lend themselves to MB due to layout.

As a bonus you can learn the arduino add on coding and do it yourself (well, you could learn 6800 assembly, too, but that's a much steeper learning curve for a lot of people.... at least 2 people that are accomplished modern programmers looked at the 6800 assemblies for various classic stern games and they just glazed over....)

At some point someone will probably mash up one of the 'platforms' like MPF into the bally boardset and would make the framework REALLY easy.

Of course as well there's some hardware you'd have to deal with, adding a multiball trough, wiring, etc.

For an example of 'not fun multiball' that the manufacturers added, look no farther than Xenon. Really hard to attain the MB and there's really no point in it. Lights the spinner.

3 weeks later
#974 3 months ago

Finally getting around to Paragon #3. Deep cleaning the playfield. I have a few of the 1-10 bonus inserts that have sunk down and are very uneven.

What's the preferred method for getting these inserts flush again?

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#975 3 months ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

What's the preferred method for getting these inserts flush again?

I use small mixes of epoxy and do one insert at a time...
Move lamp socket out of the way...
1) Clean the insert from all soot...
2) Carefully push the insert from the bottom of the playfield.[ not all the away out ]
3) Add fresh epoxy to lip of insert and to underside wood sides...
4) Carefully push back insert into playfield. CLEAN Up the Epoxy ASAP.
4a) Adjust insert, in case it has turned... [ follow clear coat grain on playfield
--- I use an Exacto knife to fine tune the insert/to clear coat grain ]
4b) Keep checking the insert from floating down as the epoxy dries...
Note: Put some wax cleaner on the top playfield to make the cleanup
------- from the epoxy as easy as possible.

#976 3 months ago

Hello Paragon owners, I was hoping some one can post sharp clear pictures of the right playfield gate assemblies...
Many thanks in advance.

#977 3 months ago

Here's one I took from a few days ago. I had removed one of the wire gates in this picture. If you need a different angle I'd be happy to assist.

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#978 3 months ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Here's one I took from a few days ago. I had removed one of the wire gates in this picture. If you need a different angle I'd be happy to assist.
[quoted image]

The picture is excellent... FLASHBALL
The top gate is intact ++ Bally #ASE-2250-11
The other two gates is where the problem lies...
Top middle gate is for Paragon only #ASE-2250-59
Bottom middle gate #ASE-2250-25 is only used on two games that I could find...
I am scouring Bally 1960's games to see if it is used again...
#ASE-2250-25 is used on pinball games Four Million BC & Playboy.
Thanks for taking the time from you schedule to post a very clean picture...
very much appreciated.

#979 89 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The picture is excellent... FLASHBALL
The top gate is intact ++ Bally #ASE-2250-11
The other two gates is where the problem lies...
Top middle gate is for Paragon only #ASE-2250-59
Bottom middle gate #ASE-2250-25 is only used on two games that I could find...
I am scouring Bally 1960's games to see if it is used again...
#ASE-2250-25 is used on pinball games Four Million BC & Playboy.
Thanks for taking the time from you schedule to post a very clean picture...
very much appreciated.

Do you need a gate? Or just doing research?

#980 89 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Do you need a gate? Or just doing research?

I have a Paragon that I am fixing, but as times go by, everybody does there own thing to each of there own games and it gets harder to find the correct part /position for all the small little stuff...
So I try and research the parts, and find which games uses the same parts and hope to get a set of accurate pictures of the parts and assemblies.
I put all the pictures together as a visual reference for each assembly.
"Do you need a gate"
I have made the wire forms...
I just recently been able to ID a wire form that I have had for a long time.
The wire form goes to Paragon only #M-1272-35a
which is part of ASE-2250-59 Swing Gate & Wire assembly.
People keep switching the position of the plate brackets for each of the wire forms...
Bally Firecracker uses ASE-2250-25 so that is now three games outside of Paragon that have the
same Swing Gate assembly.

#981 89 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Do you need a gate? Or just doing research?

I think his answer was "no" do not need a gate...just doing research.

1 week later
#982 82 days ago

Can anybody post/pm me some pictures of the wiring for the lower right flipper coil wiring/EOS assembly? I think the game I have is mis-wired and I'd like some reference photos of proper working coil/EOS wiring. Much appreciated!

#983 82 days ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Can anybody post/pm me some pictures of the wiring for the lower right flipper coil wiring/EOS assembly?

Gladly.

20210910_215755 (resized).jpg
#984 82 days ago

Here's mine... it looks similarly wired.. but the high power portion of the coil never de-energizes.. I'm having trouble figuring it out and I replaced the coil with a new one with the same results.

I've been looking at this so long, I can't seem to figure it out - am I missing something? Maybe I need a new set of eyes?

If the flipper is held on, the coil heats up very hot - it doesn't switch to the low power loop.

paragon flip (resized).jpg

#985 82 days ago

It’s hard to see in your photo, but it looks like you are missing the plastic standoffs between the switch leaves that FLASHBALL’s photo shows.

#986 82 days ago
Quoted from zombywoof:

It’s hard to see in your photo, but it looks like you are missing the plastic standoffs between the switch leaves that FLASHBALL’s photo shows.

I have one plastic standoff, but not two like in Flashball's picture. I wonder if there's just an issue with the adjustment and travel? I'll play around with things and see.

#987 82 days ago

.

#988 82 days ago

It appears to me the very first switch leaf is broken off after the contact.

With the game off, when you manually turn the flipper pawl. Do the first two contacts open up? Then the second two close?

Take a photo with the flipper manually fully extended.

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#989 78 days ago

Thanks for the pictures - very helpful!

It turns out there were a combination of things. The wiring wasn't necessarily off but the EOS switch contacts were not properly adjusted. The NC switch would actually bounce a bit and re-fire. The contacts on the EOS were messed up and they arc'd to the point where sometimes the leaves would stick together, and then the heat made some of the switch contacts come loose. It was a combination of several things. I've ordered some new switch contacts from Pinball Life. I guess you can't get the entire assembly all at once.. you need to order the NC and NO sets separately.. so that's what I did.

2 weeks later
#990 60 days ago

Pulled and leveled a bunch of loose inserts today. They can be really tricky getting them nice and flush when they want to sink low. But I'm happy with how they turned out.

Now the hard part, waiting 24 hours for the glue to completely dry.

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#991 59 days ago

Joined the club yesterday.
I didn't grow up with pinball and just got a few years back into playing, but Paragon and Mata Hari showed me that older machines are fun and I wanted one ever since. Before I only ever played the new shiny modern machines and walked by older ones.
Super stoked, now i have to practice tap passes

#992 59 days ago
Quoted from T3quila:

Joined the club yesterday. Super stoked, now i have to practice tap passes

Living dangerously I see!

#993 57 days ago

Picked up a free Paragon today from a friend of a friend who just wanted it out of his basement. It turns on and starts a game but none of the coils seem to be working. I asked him if he checked the fuses. He said he didn’t think so. He did replace the solenoid board and MPU with brand new boards. The old solenoid board was fried. I’m pretty sure I can diagnose the electrical stuff and get it working.

The playfield is decent with only a bit of insert wear. Needs to be cleaned and shopped. What worries me is that the cabinet is splitting at the seams. The glass is coming out of the track (he never tried taking the glass off), and the back box has some wiggle. I’m worried that the cabinet repair is beyond my abilities.

I told him that if it becomes too much of a project for me, I would sell it and split the money with him. He was just happy someone would get it. He said he would feel bad just throwing it out.

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#994 57 days ago

Very fixable. The playfield looks decent. This will be an awesome project for someone.

#995 57 days ago
Quoted from Electronmagic:

Very fixable. The playfield looks decent. This will be an awesome project for someone.

Yeah, I hope it’s an awesome project for me. I just have no experience with wood working. But perhaps this will be a chance to learn. I don’t have space for it in my game room, though, so it’s sitting in a living room. I’m not sure how long I have before my wife’s patience runs out.

#996 57 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Yeah, I hope it’s an awesome project for me. I just have no experience with wood working. But perhaps this will be a chance to learn. I don’t have space for it in my game room, though, so it’s sitting in a living room. I’m not sure how long I have before my wife’s patience runs out.

Here are different articles on cabinet repair.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/search?s=1&what=topics&q=Cabinet+repair&topic-machine=&pinsider=&age_days=&subforum=0&sort_by=date&sort_order=DESC#results

2 weeks later
#997 41 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Picked up a free Paragon today from a friend of a friend who just wanted it out of his basement. It turns on and starts a game but none of the coils seem to be working. I asked him if he checked the fuses. He said he didn’t think so. He did replace the solenoid board and MPU with brand new boards. The old solenoid board was fried. I’m pretty sure I can diagnose the electrical stuff and get it working.
The playfield is decent with only a bit of insert wear. Needs to be cleaned and shopped. What worries me is that the cabinet is splitting at the seams. The glass is coming out of the track (he never tried taking the glass off), and the back box has some wiggle. I’m worried that the cabinet repair is beyond my abilities.
I told him that if it becomes too much of a project for me, I would sell it and split the money with him. He was just happy someone would get it. He said he would feel bad just throwing it out.

Paragon is working!

The main issue was one of the connectors to the rectifier board was off by one pin, so the 43 volts that was supposed to be going to the coils was going to the controlled lamps instead. All lamps were blown, and the coils weren't getting power. Got it all sorted out now and replaced the bulbs. Cleaned the game, put in new rubbers, and just played my first few games. Man, it's brutal. I need to get used to it.

I still have some work to do. Need to fix the cabinet. A few switches need adjustment. Drop targets likely need new springs. A coil needs to be replaced. And, a few sockets are having the typical Bally woes. If I get really motivated, I may try those Yoppsicle LEDs, but we'll see.

For now, I'm just glad I was able to breathe some life into it.

#998 37 days ago

Was Paragon traditionally a 5 or 3 ball game on location? Or did it just depend upon the operator? I have mine set to 3 ball which is what I play on other pins. My games seem to be pretty short on Paragon though.

#999 37 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Was Paragon traditionally a 5 or 3 ball game on location?

My city had all games on 5 balls per game til at least the mid 80's when I stopped playing on location. The price increased here before there was a change to 3 balls.

#1000 37 days ago

I set mine to 5. You need a chance to light paragon & get to your hold bonuses.

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