(Topic ID: 69394)

Paragon Club... the Valley of Demons


By schwarz

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 10 days ago by Xtraball
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There are 810 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 17.
#601 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

I can almost guarantee you that it's the coil stops.

think u might be right

k, well I swapped out the new ones I had in there with the old ones and yes it seems to hold a lot better.
the new ones I got were from pb resource they came in a rebuild kit from that year but look slightly different (everything else was the same ). think I need different coil stops.
maybe A-613-127? marco has these
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-613-127

pic of kit I got, kit had pretty much everything except the additional stacked switch on the EOS. Think I'm gonna start buying individual parts instead of the kit, seems a lot of times especially on newer sterns, that one piece breaks long before its time for the full kit.

kt-bflip-03 (resized).jpg

#602 2 years ago

When you rebuild flippers, it's typically a good idea to do all flippers at the same time unless it's an individual component that you a replacing. In that case, you should do both, so that you have consistent flipper feel across all flippers. I would check the gap and contact of your EOS switches. If you have partial contact between the switches, you'll have weaker hold, and your flippers will bounce when a ball hits it. you'll want solid contact.

#603 2 years ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

When you rebuild flippers, it's typically a good idea to do all flippers at the same time unless it's an individual component that you a replacing. In that case, you should do both, so that you have consistent flipper feel across all flippers. I would check the gap and contact of your EOS switches. If you have partial contact between the switches, you'll have weaker hold, and your flippers will bounce when a ball hits it. you'll want solid contact.

Awesome, will do. I have to say I've rebuilt several later model stern and Williams, but even though a lot was the same, there were still a lot of nuances that remained unclear with this era of pinball.

I rebuilt all four at the same time. Probably didn't need to, but I replaced all the coils on them as well, resistance tested out with that model coil.

#604 2 years ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

When you rebuild flippers, it's typically a good idea to do all flippers at the same time unless it's an individual component that you a replacing. In that case, you should do both, so that you have consistent flipper feel across all flippers. I would check the gap and contact of your EOS switches. If you have partial contact between the switches, you'll have weaker hold, and your flippers will bounce when a ball hits it. you'll want solid contact.

I would rebuild the 4 and switch them over to flipteonics style mechs, Vid covers this in his guide for rebuilding. They feel so much better and last longer and are cheaper to rebuild next time

#605 2 years ago
Quoted from tdiddy:

I would rebuild the 4 and switch them over to flipteonics style mechs, Vid covers this in his guide for rebuilding. They feel so much better and last longer and are cheaper to rebuild next time

I'm part of the camp that likes to keep them original. There's "charm" in the fat flipper bats and the sloppiness. Plus you can't do tap passes with modern style flippers. It's all part of the game, in my book! My Flash Gordon was rebuilt with the linear style flippers too

#606 2 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

all this early SS stuff is still relatively new to me.
one other thing that seemed odd to me was when the ball comes down on the flipper with any force and your holding the flipper up it has a tendency to push the flipper down and flip the ball back up after the magnet force re-engages with the plunger. as if the coil didn't have enough strength to keep the flipper in the hold position. Is this normal behavior for this style of game? all three main flippers do this so I'm thinking its normal maybe? I've played early SS's enough but don't remember this really being a thing.
I know the castle shot on game of thrones can do this to the right flipper (at least push it down). That's coming at it with a lot of force, and near the end of the flipper so I'd expect that to happen.

Start with the simple stuff like check the gap in the switches to make sure they're gaped properly. Check the coil stops............ hell just go here and check out Vids guide https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers and you'll find the issue!

2 weeks later
#607 2 years ago

Anyone know where to find a replacement mini flipper? Tried all the usual suspects (PBL, Marco, etc.). Are these not available?

#608 2 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Anyone know where to find a replacement mini flipper? Tried all the usual suspects (PBL, Marco, etc.). Are these not available?

http://www.pbresource.com/flippers.html#2in

#610 2 years ago

Oh man- what a thread, paragon heaven. It is the game I played at University in 1980/81 when I was just 19 years old. Last year at the grand old age of 56 I finally bought one - from the USA and imported to the UK. it is my pride and joy. It was my 2nd pin having bought a Stern Star Trek Pro a month earlier. It has got me re-hooked into pinball and now at 11 machines and counting. I just need to build the house extension now to accommodate more. THANK YOU PARAGON and all who enjoy playing her.

#611 2 years ago

It's definitely a great game. And what's better yet??? A CPR Playfield slated for production. F*ck yeah!

#612 2 years ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

Oh man- what a thread, paragon heaven. It is the game I played at University in 1980/81 when I was just 19 years old. Last year at the grand old age of 56 I finally bought one

Same for me, but started in high school. Paragon was the first machine at the entrance to our arcade...dumped a lot of quarters into it. Bought mine last October and have gotten lots of help from pinside members! Welcome to the club!

1 week later
#613 2 years ago

Anyone know where I can get a coil stop for one of the saucer kickout mechs ? Just finished a playfield swap and noticed one of them was broken.

Thanks!

#614 2 years ago

I'm in the process of restoring 2 Paragon's, one's a keeper other for resale. I've looked at all of the posts on this thread of restored games and I've noticed that most when repainting the cabinet skip the black speckling of the gold color base coat. Wondering why, it's a pain to do correctly I realize, but originally means something to me. Prepping my keeper for the base coat now, I am planning on the speckle finish.

#615 2 years ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

I'm in the process of restoring 2 Paragon's, one's a keeper other for resale. I've looked at all of the posts on this thread of restored games and I've noticed that most when repainting the cabinet skip the black speckling of the gold color base coat. Wondering why, it's a pain to do correctly I realize, but originally means something to me. Prepping my keeper for the base coat now, I am planning on the speckle finish.

Please let us know how you accomplish this, I’d like to see and know

2 weeks later
#616 2 years ago

First one done! Four more to go...

20180606_165033 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#617 2 years ago

Does anyone know where I can get a coil stop for the upper right saucer coil mech?

I was shopping it out and noticed the stop has separated from the piece of metal.

Thanks in advance.

#618 2 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Does anyone know where I can get a coil stop for the upper right saucer coil mech?
I was shopping it out and noticed the stop has separated from the piece of metal.
Thanks in advance.

Friday bump...anyone know where to source this?

#619 2 years ago

If you have the part# email Jimmy at PBResource; pbr@pbresource.com. You can also try these Pinsiders; arcademojo, racingpin, ibuypinballs, too-many-pins

#620 2 years ago
Quoted from bluespin:

If you have the part# email Jimmy at PBResource; pbr@pbresource.com. You can also try these Pinsiders; arcademojo, racingpin, ibuypinballs, too-many-pins

I can’t seem to find that part number in the manual.

#621 2 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

I can’t seem to find that part number in the manual.

I have a parts catalog at home that covers Paragon and other games from that year. I’ll check for you tonight

#622 2 years ago

Paragon Saucer Assembly part number is ASE-428-41. The below is a breakdown of AS-428-44 found on page 60 of the 79-80 Bally parts manual. Not sure this helps what you are looking for.

FullSizeRender (resized).jpg
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#623 2 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Paragon Saucer Assembly part number is ASE-428-41. The below is a breakdown of AS-428-44 found on page 60 of the 79-80 Bally parts manual. Not sure this helps what you are looking for.

Yes I think this helps. Looks like core plug assembly? I think that’s the coil stop

1 month later
#624 1 year ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I'm part of the camp that likes to keep them original. There's "charm" in the fat flipper bats and the sloppiness. Plus you can't do tap passes with modern style flippers. It's all part of the game, in my book! My Flash Gordon was rebuilt with the linear style flippers too

Yes, the tap pass is essential! I kept the linears on my Centaur and plan to rebuild as original on my Paragon. On my HS2 and R&B it's just impossible to tap pass. Don't know if that's the solid state flipper board or inherent with the newer mechs, or both.

3 weeks later
#625 1 year ago

I just joined the club! I remember this title fondly as one you would line up to play by putting your quarter on the glass. Mine’s a good condition player with a 9 bg and I am very happy with it!

For my inaugural question to club members....is there a source for the wire gates (there are 5 of them on paragon)? Marco is out of the ones I’m looking for, which are 2 at the top of the waterfall.

Oh, and is there an accepted abbreviation for paragon ?

#626 1 year ago
Quoted from Eightball88:

I just joined the club! I remember this title fondly as one you would line up to play by putting your quarter on the glass. Mine’s a good condition player with a 9 bg and I am very happy with it!
For my inaugural question to club members....is there a source for the wire gates (there are 5 of them on paragon)? Marco is out of the ones I’m looking for, which are 2 at the top of the waterfall.
Oh, and is there an accepted abbreviation for paragon ?

Welcome to the club! Another Paragon in Ottawa... nice! Did you buy local or bring it in from out of town?

My playfield was in great shape so don’t really know where to source wire gates. Mike at pinball medics has ordered stuff for me from Steve Young’s in New York. If you can’t buy them could you make them? Just the wire gates themselves or the holding brackets too?

On mine I’ve needed to do the following since I got it.
Replace / repair one display.
Fixed sound board... wasn’t zactly sounding right.
Repin one power supply connector for a burned out GI pin.
Fill cupped inserts (probably most extensive work done)
Replaced plastics posts covers.
Clean light sockets and replace bulbs.
Clean and wax playfield.
Overall not a lot of repairs and looks and works great now.

Let me know if I can help out with anything since we’re local.

Later!

#627 1 year ago

I also have a Paragon in Ottawa.

#628 1 year ago
Quoted from tubbee:

I also have a Paragon in Ottawa.

Kewl... if you haven’t already you should add yourself to the Ottawa group thread I started... trying to keep tabs on Ottawa pinside peeps... even better if they have a paragon!

How’s your machine doing? Had it long?

#629 1 year ago

Ottawa loves it some Paragon I guess!

I bought mine from a local collector who brought it back from Washington DC (I think).

I only need the gates, the brackets are sound. PBR is out of stock so I might have to try fabricating my own. It still plays great though...except for a few dodgy lamp sockets everything works 100 percent. I’m still trying to find the sweet spot on the sustain adjustment to get the sound just right but I’ll get there.

I’m sure settings have been discussed on this thread before...but I’m waiting to roll it before considering switching it to 3 Ball. I have PARAGON letters scrolling and the inline dts scoring a letter just like my old Harlem globetrotters. I think of Paragon as a widebody mirror image version of Harlem globetrotters. It’s funny but I hardly ever lost the ball between the flippers on Hg but it happens all too often on paragon.

#630 1 year ago
Quoted from Eightball88:

It’s funny but I hardly ever lost the ball between the flippers on Hg but it happens all too often on paragon.

Interesting... probably with the wider body that extra distance is landing the ball between the flippers instead if on one or the other. I almost always only lose a ball between the flippers when it bounces off the left slingshot on the way down. Longer distance on Paragon than HG... Doctor it hurts when I do this... so stop doing that! Off the left slingshot I let it hit the flippers before I shoot... never try to “one timer” it anymore.

#631 1 year ago

Mine has the regular wear around the bonus numbers but it plays great and I have never had any problems.

#632 1 year ago

Hi tubbee, welcome. My pf has a bit of wear too, but it’s better than a lot of paragons I’ve seen. I’m getting a pf protector to make sure it stays as nice as possible.

Quoted from srcdube:

Interesting... probably with the wider body that extra distance is landing the ball between the flippers instead if on one or the other. I almost always only lose a ball between the flippers when it bounces off the left slingshot on the way down. Longer distance on Paragon than HG... Doctor it hurts when I do this... so stop doing that! Off the left slingshot I let it hit the flippers before I shoot... never try to “one timer” it anymore.

Yeah I’m getting better the more I play it. I’m using the drop catch a lot with the right flippers. Now when I scissor the ball its often off a slap save.

#633 1 year ago
Quoted from Eightball88:

is there a source for the wire gates (there are 5 of them on paragon)? Marco is out of the ones I’m looking for, which are 2 at the top of the waterfall.

Option One. I have a friend with lots of nos parts from this era. If you can get me the part number and a picture of the parts needed I can forward to him. If that doesn'twork try option two.

Option Two. Since you have the brackets, you can buy a wire kit from Marco's to form the wire. Buy this kit and take it to another Paragon owners house. Copy their wire, then insert your wire into their game to make sure that it works.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-WS-KIT

Quoted from Eightball88:

Oh, and is there an accepted abbreviation for paragon ?

DAMN! Not be overdone by the meanest early solid state pin Flash Gordon who's nickname is "Fuck!"

#634 1 year ago
Quoted from bluespin:

Option One. I have a friend with lots of nos parts from this era. If you can get me the part number and a picture of the parts needed I can forward to him. If that doesn'twork try option two.
Option Two. Since you have the brackets, you can buy a wire kit from Marco's to form the wire. Buy this kit and take it to another Paragon owners house. Copy their wire, then insert your wire into their game to make sure that it works.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-WS-KIT

DAMN! Not be overdone by the meanest early solid state pin Flash Gordon who's nickname is "Fuck!"

IMG_2849 (resized).PNG
#635 1 year ago

Thanks guys! The picture has one of the gates I need. You can see that a bit on the left is missing so I bent it with pliers to reestablish the hook. So far it is working flawlessly but I’d still like to replace it (ASE-2250-25). I am missing the top “in gate “ to the waterfall (9 on the parts list, ASE-2250-59). If I can’t find the -59 gate I might try that kit from Marco to make my own. I’m lucky to have a buddy with similar pinball tastes who also has a Paragon (with the number of Paragons in Ottawa we ought to be able to get parts in bulk

I know these early SS Ballys are known for bricking drop targets, but is there an easy way to mitigate this his on Paragon? Both the inlines and and the 3 waterfall drops brick too often for my liking, especially when it denies me my double or triple bonus!!

I have a pf protector on the way, I’d be interested in others’ views on installation, improved play, etc.

Keep on flipping!

4141B5A8-7323-4430-83B1-64498A262D3C (resized).jpeg8DA21B23-DBE3-465D-B95C-159F2418BAF4 (resized).jpeg
1 month later
#636 1 year ago

greetings all....

if we want a new cpr playfield please sign up and get the preorder commitment full. We are not too far away to making this a reality.

#637 1 year ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

greetings all....
if we want a new cpr playfield please sign up and get the preorder commitment full. We are not too far away to making this a reality.

I thought they already committed to making them.

#638 1 year ago

They committed to making them, when the preorder is full. As long as they keep getting more demand on other preorder titles Paragon will get bumped.

#639 1 year ago

"Bally
Paragon

Collecting Preorders
See Rules Top of This Section
Artwork now complete, wood for these huge widebodies are now on order and inserts are on hand."

This to me implies that they have met their minimum and will be making them, unless I'm completely misunderstanding it. I haven't been on a preorder for a pf ever, so I don't know. The previous message was that they completed the artwork and that they want this to be a 2018 run, so this (again, to me) means that they've moved forward another step.

#640 1 year ago

I haven’t checked CPRs site lately but was told that they 1) have a new process that permits them to do single backglasses without batching them and 2) they improved the colour of the Paragon backglasses.

Does anytime know if either of those are correct? If so has anyone purchased a Paragon backglass with the new process and how do you like the result?

2 months later
17
#641 1 year ago

What better way to enter the club with at Paragon story:

Last tuesday I went to check out this Paragon but the seller didn't want to agree on my offer because another buyer was on it's way at that time that would visit half an hour later and he would maybe receive a better offer.
I said the seller that wasn't a good thing to do, what if I bought the machine at the asking price... he had to call the others to abort their route as it would be sold..
So I left without buying the machine.
But I ran into the other buyer and I was one of my best friends. We both didn't know we where on the same machine. The buyer thought with two parties, I'll be sure of a good price. We talked outside the sellers house, had a laugh, and I told my friend what I offered the seller, for him to offer the same
He said I should join him back inside, I thought that was a silly thing to do and I didn't.
So I left back home and called my friend later.

He said he didn't buy the machine either as the seller had someone else offering even more money by mail and he would wait for that person later in the weekend.
My friend did offer him a little more than I did, but the seller wouldn't agree either. I thought that seller was stupid letting two people visiting him (actually inviting us to come watch) that clearly offered less -known in advance by mail- than his asking price and then still didn't agree when we showed up. A total waste of time for all of us.

I get home and receive a mail from the seller that the machine is sold, thank you for your interest.
I don't reply him but I'm like... okay... you liar...

So last saturday... another friend asks me to join him to fix his elektra which has been in his house for more than 1 year without booting.
I agree, he insists picking me up... I'm like, hey I can drive myself to your place... but he no no... I'm in your neighborhood. He drives a mustang so I agree as I then mostly drive it .
Later that day we have a booting elektra and I head back home (with my friend in the mustang) because we need to leave for dinner with friends.

I get back home open the door... and there is 40 people in my house for a birthday surprise party my wife organized.
With as a the big gift... the Paragon I went to see last tuesday...
My wife had also invited all my pinfriends... and they decided that the Paragon would make the perfect gift. So my friend did buy it (I don't know the price, I didn't ask) and the seller wasn't lying in his mail.

I have such good pinballfriends! I listed me fore a CPR repro playfield.. I owe it to the game and my friends

48388938_219330785655757_5419282858126606336_n (resized).jpg48403692_2582202765138059_3393961394423463936_n (resized).jpg

#642 1 year ago

-double post-

#643 1 year ago

Started a separate thread for an unstable Paragon system:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-paragon-system-unstable#post-4747454

Thanks!

1 month later
#644 1 year ago

Join the club a few days ago. Loving the game so far. Last night the mpu started resetting and I lost all of my insert lighting's. Now I can get the mpu to boot and start a game but no insert lights. I am not sure where to start. Check all of the fuses on the rec board. They are all good an not blown. I did check the voltages on the board. Tp1 is reading 0. And so is tp4. I am thinking the board went bad but not sure. Any help would be grateful.

#645 1 year ago
Quoted from Jon9508:

Join the club a few days ago. Loving the game so far. Last night the mpu started resetting and I lost all of my insert lighting's. Now I can get the mpu to boot and start a game but no insert lights. I am not sure where to start. Check all of the fuses on the rec board. They are all good an not blown. I did check the voltages on the board. Tp1 is reading 0. And so is tp4. I am thinking the board went bad but not sure. Any help would be grateful.

Probably a blown or bad bridge rectifier. If you are comfortable doing board work, you could replace them, or you could go to nvram.weebly and buy a new assembled board for 50 or unassembled for 35. That would be my thought.

#646 1 year ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Probably a blown or bad bridge rectifier. If you are comfortable doing board work, you could replace them, or you could go to nvram.weebly and buy a new assembled board for 50 or unassembled for 35. That would be my thought.

I went a head a bought a new board. Looks to be a better design then the old ones. Hoping for the best

#647 1 year ago

Yep got a new board and installed it. Still no luck. Looks like I am missing the 12v and the 6v. Everything else is there. I double checked the wiring and everything looks good on that end. Maybe the transformer went bad. Is there an easy way to test the transformer?

#648 1 year ago
Quoted from Jon9508:

Yep got a new board and installed it. Still no luck. Looks like I am missing the 12v and the 6v. Everything else is there. I double checked the wiring and everything looks good on that end. Maybe the transformer went bad. Is there an easy way to test the transformer?

Dumb thought, but have you tried reseating the connectors on the lamp board?

Next try grounding a lamp that is out to see if the lamp is getting power.

#649 1 year ago

Anybody that knows a source for these 2 gates?

ball gate & wire assembly ASE-2250-59
Ball gate & wire assembly ASE-2250-25

These are the middle 2 gates at the right of the waterfall.

paragongates (resized).jpg
#650 1 year ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

Anybody that knows a source for these 2 gates?
ball gate & wire assembly ASE-2250-59
Ball gate & wire assembly ASE-2250-25
These are the middle 2 gates at the right of the waterfall.[quoted image]

Are your gates missing, or just the wire form assembly?

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