(Topic ID: 254383)

Paragon advances to next ball before drain

By zombywoof

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 11 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by srcdube
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

My Paragon has exhibited a strange behavior a couple of times this week. Wednesday I was playing a one player game. During ball two the machine just spontaneously switched to ball three with the ball still in play. There was no bonus collection. Subsequent games were normal. Last night, during a two player game with my wife, the game spontaneously switched from player one to player two while she still had a ball in play. Again, there was no bonus collection. It just started racking up points on the second player while she continued to play her original ball. I haven’t seen this behavior before and thought I would ask if someone here has come across this and how they addressed it. Many thanks for any suggestions!

#2 4 years ago

Check the trough switch where the ball drains. It might be vibrating closed making the game think the ball has drained and advanced.

#3 4 years ago

Try reseating all plugs associated with the trough.

#4 4 years ago

Wow, that's a weird one!
I know everyone is saying to check ball trough, and while i agree it's worth checking...i think the problem is elsewhere. Remember guys--he's *not* getting the bonus countdown, which leads me to think it's not a switch issue, but an mpu/display issue. Still, if the trough switch is really closely gapped, or if the solder lugs are mashed together, or tensioner leaf on switch is shorting switch closed, that could cause some weirdness too... Definitely check trough before tearing your hair out chasing gremlins.

After that, I'd probably start by reseating the connectors for the displays at the MPU (game off, of course--never plug/unplug display connectors with power on)... Not sure what else to recommend, but hopefully some of the resident gurus will come chime in.

Have you had this game for a while, or did you just acquire it recently?
Original or aftermarket mpu?
Any recent board or display problems or upgrades?

I'm interested to find out what the solution is here...

#5 4 years ago

My first thoughts went to the trough as well, but the no bonus thing is a head scratcher. I haven’t had a chance to open it up yet, but will check that switch and connectors first.

I’ve had the game for years. It’s an original MPU. I replaced the rectifier board with a new one from GPE, rebuilt the connectors, and re-pinned when I first got the game. I switched out the battery for a capacitor a few years ago. There is a daughter card in-line on the MPU that supports the X-Pin 7volution displays. But again, these have also been in service for several years, and no recent changes.

I’ll start at the trough and move back from there. I’ll post what I find.

Thanks!

#6 4 years ago

Any chance you're getting a phantom tilt? Does the game seem to go dead like it would in a tilt or is the transition to the next ball seamless?

#7 4 years ago

Paragon is not electromechanical, not like the player up unit is advancing. Some thoughts, are you sure the bonus is not being added? Maybe the bonus is so low at that point it's not noticeable. How about the drop targets? Do they reset?
I just cant't think of any scenario where the mpu would advance to another ball or player without thinking the outhole or tilt has been activated. In either case, while tilt will not add the bonus, the drop targets would be reset at the start of a new turn.

#8 4 years ago

I realize that it is not a mechanical unit advancing, I just wanted to convey the sense of what happened. I don’t think it tilted, the flippers stayed engaged, and it was pretty seamless. I can’t say for certain on the drops resetting. Something called my attention to the event, so maybe. I’m certain on the bonus not being applied. During the one player game where I first saw this behavior I was one shot shy of Super Bonus, and was pissed that I didn’t get the score and the bonus hold over.

#9 4 years ago

I took a quick pass at this. The trough switch looks like it is gapped correctly, and nothing seems out of the ordinary on visual inspection. I did clean the switch with a business card and alcohol. I played five games without the error recurring. I used a plastic spudger to trip each of the various tilt switches with a game in play and the ball in the shooter lane. They all behaved as expected.

Nevertheless, I think the suggestion of a phantom tilt is a likely culprit. I will pay attention for the drops resetting if and when this recurs. The cap on the tilt bob looks like the factory original, and we all know how flakey Bally caps can be. I may proactively replace it and the switch diodes on all of the tilt switches if the problem comes back. Does that seem like a reasonable next step?

Thanks again for all of the input.

#10 4 years ago

You can also clip one leg off the tilt bob capacitor and see if that corrects it. I always recommend replacing all the original switch caps when working on any classic Bally or Stern's. Paragon probably has at least a few under the pf. I know the standing targets each use one, and the rollover buttons might also. The switch chart in the manual shows which switches have caps. Sounds like you're on the right track here.

#11 4 years ago

I was having some wonky stuff happening with the whole system rebooting on me. Turned out the 5v power to the mpu was a little low (~4.2v) and random signals were dipping low enough to trigger stuff.

Check 5v level on mpu and source (which I think was actually on the driver board... not directly from the power supply).

I cleaned and reseated both ends of those connectors and power popped back up to 4.8v... problem went away.

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