POLL: PAPA Women's Division?

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4

#1 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

Inactive member

11y 36,150 535 23

(Post copied from facebook)

The other night on PAPA tv the argument came up on whether or not PAPA should have a women's division. What do you guys think about this? I say "why not?". Some people were arguing that it wouldn't be a good idea for one reason or another, none of which I fully understood. What do y'all think? Arguments FOR this included ideas such as, "women will have a better chance at winning"...or the one I agree with most, "It might get more women involved in a male dominated sport."
And next, my project for the morning since I have the day off, I compiled a list of the top 50 female pinball players in the country. Now I KNOW I must've missed a few people because I just skimmed the rankings and wrote these all down. There are probably some players with gender neutral names that I missed. This is also why I chose to keep it in the United States because it's more names that I KNOW the gender of
The numbers after the names are their overall U.S. rankings
1. Jennifer Peavler 64
2. Louise Wagensonner 180
3. Julie Gray 196
4. Emma Eichhorn 232
5. Amanda Kunzi 257
6. Echa Schneider 266
7. Priyanka Kochhar 272
8. Julie Schober 339
9. Michelle McCleester 354
10. Phoebe Smith 367
11. Rebecca Schleider 368
12. Karyn Kiser 384
13. Nycole Hyatt 424
14. Penni Epstein 454
15. Molly Atkinson 457
16. Jeannie Rodriguez 460
17. Rosie Mondragon 461
18. Tina Curtis 477
19. Nicole Anne Reik 484
20. Katie Rosier 486
21. Kayla Greet 489
22. Erica Cheramy 492
23. Sarah Schudel 514
24. Amanda Kotchon 521
25. Cristin Gasson 526
26. Leslie Friley 537
27. Theresa Nessel 542
28. Jessie Carduner 544
29. Virginia Hendricks 553
30. Masha Dare 557
31. Erin Ray 565
32. Cathy Cartoon 599
33. Leslie Kozloski 601
34. Paige Atkinson 617
35. Maya Nigrosh 619
36. Debra Rymer 620
37. Heather Willott 627
38. Carol Walker 633
39. AJ Replogle 641
40. Carole Carrol 642
41. Angela Drobka 669
42. Sunshine Bon 676
43. Laura McCarthy 691
44. Laura Stoddard 700
45. Ahna Rosa 703
46. Therese Edwards 717
47. Amy Covell 730
48. Erin Harting 732
49. Christina Jorge 747
50. Lena Hendricks 748

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#9 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

Quoted from Wizcat:
Doesn't it come across a little sexist?
There is no reason men and women can't compete equally in pinball. And to me, segregating the women out is a cop out. It's like, 'here, you go and play in that minority league while us real players do the serious thing'
Social meets for women is fine, and I can see that bringing more women into the hobby. But competing separately? Seems like a bad idea to me.

They can compete equally. This is just another optional division for them to join if they choose.

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#26 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

The poll is 20 for and 19 against. I'm surprised at how even it's split as of now, and would be shocked if it gets to an extremely high number of votes and still stays somewhat even.

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#41 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

Quoted from bkerins:
The list only included US players. Helena is a world-class pinballer!

At Pinburgh this year, out of every player I played against in the B division, she was easily the best...both genders included. Kicked our asses and got either a 10 or 11 in the group.

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1

#43 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

At a certain skill level, I think pinball can be more a skill of focus, patience, memory, and improvisation.

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#58 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

Quoted from mhs:
I've been seeking feedback on this issue for about ten months now, and considering the e-mails I've received that have ranged from heavily in favor to frothing-at-the-mouth, I can't say I'm all that surprised to see the poll near dead even.
Out of all of the feedback I've received, however, one aspect that I've never seen properly vetted is the idea of the division as a form of promotion to broaden the base. The discussion always falls into the same back-and-forth about skill and sexism, which are fine topics to discuss on their own terms, but very few people ever touch on the promotional aspect and a how a division like this would fall in line with countless other types of promotional outreach that already happens, a great deal of which (by the very nature of promotion) is directed at specific groups of people with no complaints from anyone.
The "capable" question will always be decided by the A / B / C / D skill divisions, because that is the complete and absolute purpose of those divisions. Whether women are as "capable", in this specific framing of the question, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a womens division would serve a range of secondary purposes similar to juniors, seniors, and the "team" formats that ran up until a few years ago. It would be solely additive in nature, much the same as if we were to bring back the "couples" side division which was also promotionally directed at a particular demographic.
Framed in these terms, I ask, what is the downside to leveraging a womens division as a way to promote the game and broaden the playerbase? Women are the largest demographic group in the world, and according to the information drawn from millions of PAPA's video hits, they couldn't currently care any less about pinball.
The benefits to including more women are the same as the benefits to including more of any type of person, but it just so happens the demographic of women is by far the largest, most obvious, most easily reached subgroup with the largest immediate potential gains when it comes to attracting new players.
So, specifically to the dissenters, viewed through a realm of promotion, how would you rebut? And, theoretically, suppose your job was to promote pinball however possible, what would you do to compensate for ignoring this massive, unrealized playerbase? What would be your plan-B to attract new players?

I don't really have a reply to this, just was playing the numbers game and hoped if it was on the page twice then a poster is more likely to read it. Couples tournament though? I might be into that!

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#81 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

My wife is all for it, but she thinks pinside is lame so she's not going to vote on this thread

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#86 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-111-layover-seattle-style-or-do-girls-wanna-have-their-own-fun_28005

start about 15 minutes in to hear Nate's opinion

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#89 9 years ago

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EvanBingham

Inactive member

11y 36,150 535 23

Updated U.S. women's overall standings:
1. Jennifer Peavler 68
2. Zoë Vrabel151 +? (left her out of last rankings by mistake)
3. Louise wagensonner 190 -1
4. Julie Gray 224 -1
5. Echa Schneider 249 +1
6. Emma Eichhorn 254 -2
7. Amanda Kunzi 269 -2
8. Priyanka Kochhar 294 -1
9. Michelle McCleester 352
10. Julie Schober 370 -2
11. Rebecca Schleider 390
12. Phoebe James Smith 413 -2
13. Sarah Schudel 427 +10
14. Karyn Kiser 428 -2
15. Nycole Hyatt 442 -2
16. Rosie Pinball Sorceress Mondragon 464 +1
17. Kayla Greet 474 +4
18. Theresa Nessel 495 +9
19. Jeannie Rodriguez 506 -3
20. Erin Harting 508 +28
21. Penni Epstein 512 -7
22. Amanda Kotchon 516 +2
23. Chris Gershtein 519
24. Katie Rosier 526 -3
25. Molly Atkinson 528 -9
26. Leslie Kozloski 538 +8
27. Heather Willott 547 +11
28. Tina Curtis 573 -9
29. Ahna Rosa 574 +17
30. Leslie Friley 575 -3
31. Erica N Matty Cheramy 585 -8
32. Cristin O'Conner Gasson 586
33. Nicole Anne Reik 590 -13
34. Masha Dare 591 -3
35. Jessie Carduner 593 -6
36. Cathy Cartoon 594 -3
37. Allison O'Neill 616 +?
38. Virginia McWilliams Hendricks 618 -8
39. Maya Nigrosh 650 -3
40. Christina Jorge 677 +10
41. Therese Edwards 685 +6
42. Paige Atkinson 701 -7
43. Sunshine Bon 708
44. Debra Rymer 709 -7
45. Jen St Hilaire 718 +?
46. Deanna Gerard 719 +?
47. Angela Drobka 720 -5
48. Mandy AJ Replogle 729 -8
49. Laura Mccarthy 736 -5
50. Carole Carroll 747 -9

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#92 8 years ago

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EvanBingham

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11y 36,150 535 23

Updated US women's standings.

Name, followed by U.S. Ranking, followed by how much they moved since the last rankings.

1. Jennifer Peavler 93
2. Zoe Vrabel 174
3. Emma Eichhorn 196 +3
4. Sarah Schudel 207 +9
5. Louise Wagensonner 220 (UK?) -2
6. Echa Schneider 229 -1
7. Julie Gray 248 -3
8. Nycole Hyatt 291 +7
9. Amanda Kunzi 301 -2
10. Anna Wolk 302 +? (left out of previous rankings)
11. Priyanka Kochhar308 -3
12. Michelle McCleester 364 -3
13. Sunshine Bon 377 +30
14. Kayla Greet 402 +3
15. Rebecca Schleider 415 -4
16. Jessie Carduner 423 +19
17. Robin Lassonde 431 +?
18. Mindy Bert 440 +?
19. Ellen Frankel 442 +?
20. Amanda Kotchon 455 +2
21. Erin Ray 463 +?
22. Hannah Holmberg 468 +?
23. Karyn Kiser 469 -9
24. Erin Harting 496 -4
25. Julie Schober 506 -15
26. Phoebe Smith 517 -14
27. Maya Nigrosh 530 +12
28. Masha Dare 538 +6
29. Heather Loudon 547 +?
30. Katie Rosier 550 -6
31. AJ Replogle 561 +17
32. Chris Gershtein 573 -9
33. Heather Willott 593 -5
34. Allison Oneill 597 +3
35. Theresa Nessel 612 -17
36. Leslie Kozloski 615 -10
37. Christel Macabeo 617 +?
38. Jeannie Rodriguez 645 -19
39. Rosie Mondragon 647 -23
40. Debra Rymer 649 +4
41. Penni Epstein 651 -20
42. Jodine Hatfield 662 +?
43. Lindsey Rhoades 678 +?
44. Cathy Cartoon 680 -8
45. Cristin Gasson 690 -13
46. Leslie Friley 691 -16
47. Ahna Rosa 700 -18
48. Erica Cheramy 726 -17
49. Molly Atkinson 754 -24
50. Alysa Parks 755 +?

By EvanBingham

9 years ago

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