(Topic ID: 105145)

POLL: PAPA Women's Division?


By EvanBingham

5 years ago



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  • 92 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by EvanBingham
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    Topic poll

    “Should PAPA add a women's division?”

    • Yes 73 votes
      52%
    • No 67 votes
      48%

    (140 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    #1 5 years ago

    (Post copied from facebook)

    The other night on PAPA tv the argument came up on whether or not PAPA should have a women's division. What do you guys think about this? I say "why not?". Some people were arguing that it wouldn't be a good idea for one reason or another, none of which I fully understood. What do y'all think? Arguments FOR this included ideas such as, "women will have a better chance at winning"...or the one I agree with most, "It might get more women involved in a male dominated sport."
    And next, my project for the morning since I have the day off, I compiled a list of the top 50 female pinball players in the country. Now I KNOW I must've missed a few people because I just skimmed the rankings and wrote these all down. There are probably some players with gender neutral names that I missed. This is also why I chose to keep it in the United States because it's more names that I KNOW the gender of
    The numbers after the names are their overall U.S. rankings
    1. Jennifer Peavler 64
    2. Louise Wagensonner 180
    3. Julie Gray 196
    4. Emma Eichhorn 232
    5. Amanda Kunzi 257
    6. Echa Schneider 266
    7. Priyanka Kochhar 272
    8. Julie Schober 339
    9. Michelle McCleester 354
    10. Phoebe Smith 367
    11. Rebecca Schleider 368
    12. Karyn Kiser 384
    13. Nycole Hyatt 424
    14. Penni Epstein 454
    15. Molly Atkinson 457
    16. Jeannie Rodriguez 460
    17. Rosie Mondragon 461
    18. Tina Curtis 477
    19. Nicole Anne Reik 484
    20. Katie Rosier 486
    21. Kayla Greet 489
    22. Erica Cheramy 492
    23. Sarah Schudel 514
    24. Amanda Kotchon 521
    25. Cristin Gasson 526
    26. Leslie Friley 537
    27. Theresa Nessel 542
    28. Jessie Carduner 544
    29. Virginia Hendricks 553
    30. Masha Dare 557
    31. Erin Ray 565
    32. Cathy Cartoon 599
    33. Leslie Kozloski 601
    34. Paige Atkinson 617
    35. Maya Nigrosh 619
    36. Debra Rymer 620
    37. Heather Willott 627
    38. Carol Walker 633
    39. AJ Replogle 641
    40. Carole Carrol 642
    41. Angela Drobka 669
    42. Sunshine Bon 676
    43. Laura McCarthy 691
    44. Laura Stoddard 700
    45. Ahna Rosa 703
    46. Therese Edwards 717
    47. Amy Covell 730
    48. Erin Harting 732
    49. Christina Jorge 747
    50. Lena Hendricks 748

    #2 5 years ago

    Some great comments on the kidforce pinball fb thread. Interested to see what the pinside group has to say. Im all for it. Anything that makes women feel more comfortable and included is ok with me!

    16
    #3 5 years ago

    I don't see why a woman can't compete with a man in pinball. There isn't much physical strength needed to play and they can be as smart, if not smarter, than men.

    #4 5 years ago

    Why is pinball a male-dominated game/sport though? If we can find the answer to that question, then we have the answer as to what a women's division will accomplish, if anything.

    #5 5 years ago

    Lets not use the term sport. I mean, really. But its not that women cant compete with the men. I know a lot of women that can kick my ass all over the place. As long as it doesnt exclude the top women from competing with the top men, its all good. If some want to compete against only other women, whats the big deal? Pinball promotion is what its all about

    #6 5 years ago

    Who's asking, men or women, that's what will determine my vote.

    11
    #7 5 years ago

    My wife started a monthly women's league because women were more comfortable hanging out with each other than joining a league with 30 dudes hanging out in a basement, often with no women there at all.

    At their inaugural night last month, they had 6 women, which is far more than our local league ever had.

    The lop sided nature of pinball is probably preventing more women from getting involved. There is nothing inherent about playing pinball that needs to be separated by gender, but anything that promotes more pinball players is fine in my book.

    #8 5 years ago

    Doesn't it come across a little sexist?

    There is no reason men and women can't compete equally in pinball. And to me, segregating the women out is a cop out. It's like, 'here, you go and play in that minority league while us real players do the serious thing'

    Social meets for women is fine, and I can see that bringing more women into the hobby. But competing separately? Seems like a bad idea to me.

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wizcat:

    Doesn't it come across a little sexist?
    There is no reason men and women can't compete equally in pinball. And to me, segregating the women out is a cop out. It's like, 'here, you go and play in that minority league while us real players do the serious thing'
    Social meets for women is fine, and I can see that bringing more women into the hobby. But competing separately? Seems like a bad idea to me.

    They can compete equally. This is just another optional division for them to join if they choose.

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from skquinn:

    Why is pinball a male-dominated game/sport though? If we can find the answer to that question, then we have the answer as to what a women's division will accomplish, if anything.

    Because men refuse to grow up. Sorry, but it's true. And yes, I am a man and act like a child. I play xbox 360, pinball, and still collect action figures.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from EvanBingham:

    They can compete equally. This is just another optional division for them to join if they choose.

    So will there be a men's league that the women can't compete in? Why is it divided by sex? Why not divide it by sexual preference? Split leagues are good when there is a clear advantage between the physical attributes based on sex. In pinball, this is not there.

    #12 5 years ago

    I have some experience with this: I (a male) run pinball tournaments in tandem with a female friend. The original idea for the events was hers and I hopped on board with my knowledge of tournament running and technical-ness.

    She perceived a need for a women's league in Milwaukee, and it has been running for a few months now. I have attended a couple times to help run the scorekeeping, and have helped with a little bit of promotion. I think its pretty cool. It has a different dynamic than the co-ed tournaments or predominantly male tournaments I've been to.

    But let's be honest about this: the men (including myself) posting on this thread are unqualified to speak authoritatively on this subject, and from the looks of it I don't think any women have yet. I'm hoping that pinball women can chime in on this thread. I have always appreciated listening to and pondering my co-director's opinions on the value of a women's pinball community, but I can't articulate it anywhere near as well as she can.

    #13 5 years ago

    I think anything that promotes more pinball among pinheads or potential pinheads is great.

    You can think it sexist but there are in fact genetic and evolutionarily selected differences that are predisposed advantages provided to men over women when it comes to reaction time/hand-eye coordination.

    This not saying that there are not some amazing women players in pinball (like all sports/games), but that when you overlay the spectrum of player capabilities even when adjusting for other social variables (i.e. current male/female ratios, experience, number of competitions) these scatterings will be disparate, with men being higher on the ability spectrum.

    Some of these abilities are likely conferred from social societal differences as boys tend to focus on many hand-eye coordination activities as they grow up.

    Regardless of what actually causes these differences in abilities they are apparent.

    I say it is a great idea to offer a women's only PAPA division. It is no different than offering a juniors/seniors and if anything I would say their is more data and reason for a women's than a jr/sr given that many of the jr/sr players are already competing at the A div and there is no data to support/ justify these extra placements.

    It is my understanding that Jr/Sr divisions were/are intended to promote pinball to groups that are thought to not have the skill yet/ beyond their peak (whether due to age or experience in these divisions). if that is the case then they should have some IFPA and past papa performance restrictions also. I would say if you previously finish top 24 in A/B/C or are top 400 IFPA then you probably should not be playing in the separate divisions of Jr/Sr/Women as you have already proven you are not in need of a seperate division based on genetic/age/ experience differences.

    All the above said, I am not a women so I can't tell you how a women would feel about it other than the fact that my wife is a pretty active competitive player and wants more women based events.

    #14 5 years ago

    I posted this on FB thread...and one of the first comments I read when I look at this thread is

    Quoted from judremy:I don't see why a woman can't compete with a man in pinball.

    Which is exactly what I heard from some at PAPA when it was first mentioned several years ago...that is not the issue...Here is my comment from FB...
    I have been lobbying PAPA for several years to have a "women's" division, (ask Trent or Mark) and not because I think we should be separated or that we are not as "good" as the guys...I have played against the "guys" as long as I have been playing, I play in 2 pinball leagues, in 1 (OPL) I was the only girl out of 24 players (there were others that had participated in the past seasons), and in the other (Cincy Pinball) first 2 seasons there were 5 of us girls out of 30 players, (I won the first season against some really good "guy" players) 1 of the girls had to drop out this year because she is away in college so there are 4 of us now. I think PAPA should have a "women's" division simply to give women the choice to compete, if they are new and not comfortable competing with the guys, then they have their own division although I'm sure that the really good women players would still dominate (just like men do in Jrs. and Srs), but if they want they can still compete with the guys as well...They have a Seniors division, and a Juniors division, one argument was that a women's division would segregate women and the feeling was that to play pinball women were no different than men...well yeah that's true, but neither are seniors or juniors hell the winner of junior and senior division either competed in finals in A division or won B division, so why should they have their own division?? if PAPA chose to have a women's division, it could be played in the junior senior bank of games the games would not be set differently than for any other division that plays on them. It would bring in more $$ for PAPA because chances are most of us girls would compete just for the competition. It would also bring more girls into pinball, if they go with their boyfriend or a group of friends, and they see a women's division they might be drawn in to the "fold" so to speak and join the rest of us pinheads! I see it as a win win for everyone, and have never understood why they haven't yet!

    Phoebe

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wizcat:

    Doesn't it come across a little sexist?

    A bunch of men making decisions about women competing? sure.

    #16 5 years ago

    I know a lot of women that really enjoy pinball that would definitely prefer to have a women's division at PAPA. I'm also sure if you put it into the context of "Can't a woman play pinball as well as a man?" question, most women would say yes and feel defensive about the question. This many times becomes the sole focus of the question "should there be a women's division?". The whole discussion turns into "Sexism" instead of what would the most people like/enjoy - actually kind of sad

    Regardless of this question/answer a couple things are obvious/facts - the ratio of women to men at tournaments and in leagues is very small. A very small percentage of top players are women.

    I vote for a women's division in PAPA (or elsewhere) as I'm confident there will be a lot of women that would appreciate it and be more likely to come because it exists. In no way would this prohibit a woman from playing in A, B or C instead.

    In smaller tournaments there might not be enough of a turn out for a women's division - which is a separate issue.

    BTW - it absolutely takes a bunch of men making decisions about women competing -> when it's a bunch of men putting on the tournaments, who must make all the decisions on how they run their tournaments. This is already what's currently happening, and the result is currently (mostly) no women's division (at least at PAPA).

    #17 5 years ago

    Just as an aside, the poker world went through this kind of revolution a few years back. They had some difficulty because you can't legally have a women's only competition. (Lets be honest, it is sexist - for exactly the same reason having a men's only tournament would be sexist). So a lot of men would join the women's competition (sometimes even in drag) just to make their disagreement with the format clear

    The only solution to this issue was to 'discount' the entry price for ladies (ie radically overcharge for men)

    -4
    #18 5 years ago

    Asians are vastly underrepresented in competitive pinball, I think PAPA should add an Asian division to improve involvement.

    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wizcat:

    The only solution to this issue was to 'discount' the entry price for ladies (ie radically overcharge for men)

    Now that seems obviously sexist - SAME competition, one price for men and a different price for women!

    Post edited by T7: typo

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from T7:

    Now that seems obviously sexist - SAME competition, one price for men and a different price for women!
    Post edited by T7: typo

    Well, many bars have "Ladies' Nights" with free admission, drink specials, etc. That's also sexist, but it exists....

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wizcat:

    Doesn't it come across a little sexist?

    It's absolutely sexist. And the juniors and seniors divisions are ageist, so we should ditch those divisions too. No room for discrimination for pinball!

    Quoted from EvanBingham:

    They can compete equally. This is just another optional division for them to join if they choose.

    Bingo. If I go to Papa, I have lots of choices. I can play in A, B or C division, Seniors, Classics or any of mini tourneys. I can't compete in Juniors. Why not another division just for the ladies?

    Like many sports, pinball is mostly guys. I looked through that list above and saw a bunch of awesome ladies I know. They are a huge addition to the hobby. Hell, Molly and Echa alone probably contribute more to this hobby than 99% of the guys here on pinside. Those ladies are out there getting it done on a daily basis. Considering their significant contributions to the hobby, both on the playfield and off, I'd like to see more women in the hobby. Because prize money isn't big yet, it shouldn't be a problem. No good reason not to IMO. The ladies of this hobby are the best. Let's recruit more.

    #22 5 years ago

    So you better start thinking about where transgender players fit too....

    #23 5 years ago

    I'm all for a Women's Division at PAPA using the same bank of games that JR/SR uses. More people that can experience the pinball tourney participating experience the better.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from judremy:

    I don't see why a woman can't compete with a man in pinball. There isn't much physical strength needed to play and they can be as smart, if not smarter, than men.

    they have a seniors division and youth division. Same rule would apply there. I just think it's nice to have different division areas to attract a broader range of people. Yes everyone is capable to compete. But some are not as hardcore as the main divisions. So side groups like this, give an opportunity to those that arn't as hardcore to, do well and win something. I think the more different divisions the better for attracting more people.

    #25 5 years ago

    I think it's fine to open a division for women as long as it is an additional division to play ALONG with A,B,C and not exclusive and in that way increase interest in competing and chance to win a trophy. There is nothing in playing pinball (except maybe naturally evolved lack of competivness compared to male homo sapiens) that would require skill that men have and women don't or which would make women worse players than men, in fact they might even be better if female talent for multitasking is not a myth. Make women competition run before the main A,B,C competition or afterwards and allow women to compete in A,B,C as well.

    #26 5 years ago

    The poll is 20 for and 19 against. I'm surprised at how even it's split as of now, and would be shocked if it gets to an extremely high number of votes and still stays somewhat even.

    #27 5 years ago

    I really prefer including male and female together. Especially since pinball is already male dominated. It's quite satisfying seeing women (my wife among them) qualifying for more skilled divisions and beating the guys in tournaments. I'd like to see more diversity, in general, in tournaments. Which is why I enjoy match-play so much. Everyone is competing against everyone else.

    However, if enough women want an all female division and the PAPA crew wants to oblige, then I think they should do it. If we see more division categories, such as an all women's division, I just hope they encourage and motivate more participation by more people.

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from Ika:

    There is nothing in playing pinball (except maybe naturally evolved lack of competivness compared to male homo sapiens) that would require skill that men have and women don't or which would make women worse players than men, in fact they might even be better if female talent for multitasking is not a myth.

    Just want to point out that there are many scholarly studies demonstrating gender differences in spatial relation, movement, and motor skill.

    In all likelyhood these differences are evolved over millions of years and it is completely PC and acceptable to acknowledge our differences in order to make even our pinball world more inclusive of all people and their abilities. I see nothing wrong with catering to any group that we would like to foster more participation from.

    The real question is, should competitive pinball be trying to bring in more females? If the answer is yes, then what does it hurt to provide the opportunity for more accessability to that gender? If some women do not want to play in the females only division then that is their choice, no different than the jr/sr. divisions.

    #29 5 years ago

    Silly IMO. Maybe we need different weight divisions too? I don't see pinball as a game that favors physical size/attributes which is the only reason I know that traditional sports segregate the two genders.

    #30 5 years ago

    Helena Walter is not on the list and she won PAPA B some years ago.

    #31 5 years ago
    Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

    Silly IMO. I don't see pinball as a game that favors physical size/attributes which is the only reason I know that traditional sports segregate the two genders.

    Pinball most certainly does favor size/attributes, but it's more size based than gender. A smaller player cannot move a machine around as easy or as accurately as a larger player.

    Nobody is talking about segregating players, only ADDING an additional division restricted to gender just as youth and seniors are restricted to age. I don't think there are any men in pinball who feel that a woman can't play at the same competitive level. From my understanding, this division wouldn't be for current competitive females (unless they chose to compete in it), it's for women who are new to pinball.

    I think it's an interesting conversation, but ultimately, it's up to the female player base to decide.

    #32 5 years ago

    I'm female. I enjoy playing pinball, but the only machines that I ever see are in my house or my mom's house as there are no local players or publically available machines within a 2 hour drive in any direction.

    Last year my mom and I went to Game Galaxy in Nashville on a day they were having a little local tournament. It actually did get points towards what I assume are the PAPA numbers above, and there were only 6 guys there, so we participated. We didn't know how to play the games, but we'd watch the guys ahead of us and sometimes they'd give us pointers. We came in I believe 5th and 8th, but when they put the points on the official PAPA website it showed me as #1 ranked in TN and my mom as #2 ranked in TN. She came in dead last in the tournament, but she proudly told everyone about it and how she is now the #2 rated female played in the state. Her coworkers like to give her a hard time about having 3 pinball machines in her bedroom, but suddenly the girls were interested and thought it sounded cool, and a few have even gone to her house to play. (It helps that she has TAF since that's the one machine everyone seems to know from when we did have an arcade here 15 years ago.)

    Also last year we went to the Atlanta Pin Swap. There was a tournament there, and we had all intentions of signing up. My mom, my dad, and me. We got there early to put our names in and practice, then quickly realized that the tournament was a roped-off area of the garage/hanger the event was being held in, and about 40 guys were crammed into a space smaller than 20'x30'. They were yelling, they were cheering, and they were drinking. And they had every right to be, because it was a fun event and they were having fun, but there was no way in heck that the three of us were about to throw ourselves into the middle of that, especially since we didn't know how to play the tournament machines and wouldn't have a chance. So we played the games in the free play area for awhile until we got hungry, went to eat lunch, and drove the 2+ hours back home.

    This year the Atlanta Pin Swap grew up into Southern Fried Expo, and again my mom, my husband, and I made the 2+ hour trip down. We got there early for the swap fest, which was pretty non-existant unless people came later and we missed them, and in case we wanted to play in the tournament. Once again, it's a moshpit of guys in a little roped off area, and we have no interest in particpating. It was a nicer area and they did a great job of organizing it, but the average female who has never played the tournament machines isn't going to stand around for hours and pay a fee just to play the game and ultimately be beaten out by the guys who regularly have access to a multitude of pins from their local friends and public places.

    So we had a blast playing in a small tournament, but got scared off from playing in the other larger tournaments because of skillset and for the sheer fact of being a female squished into a literal large group of men in a tight area. I've never had a problem with guys being rude or disrespectful in person at a pinball event, but then again I don't purposely place myself in the middle of a large group of them. Most men don't understand the inherant flight/flight aspect of being a female sometimes. I'm not petite by any means at 5'10", of Viking decent, and probably weigh as much as some of you. I'm not a timid person, but surround me with 20-40 guys in a small area, and my natural "get out of here" instincts kick in.

    I absolutely think women can play along the guys and know that there's no difference as far as skill as related to gender. If I was actally any good at playing (like Phoebe up there) then I'd probably take you on head to head and kick your ass. But I'm not good enough to warrant jumping in the middle of a sausage fest and paying money just to have myself disqualified. If there was a separate women's event, even just for fun and no points, I'd be all over it and play every event I went to. The smaller number of entries means I might have a chance (even though I'd mostly be playing for fun) and honestly I'd just feel more comfortable with a smaller group of women around than tons of guys with testosterone pumping from competing.

    #33 5 years ago
    Quoted from blondetall:

    honestly I'd just feel more comfortable with a smaller group of women around than tons of guys with testosterone pumping from competing.

    This is why exactly. Nothing to do with if women could compete fairly, just has to do with creating environments that attract more women players. More people playing pinball = we all win.

    #34 5 years ago

    I think a large part of @blondetall's post there I can relate to ... as a man! I'm also not very good at pinball, certainly not to the level I can compete with the best. But I still enjoy trying, and would rather be able to compare my ability (or lack of) against those players, rather than play in a subset of weaker players.

    Of course I can't fairly comment on the feelings of being intimidated by a large group of hairy men. That has definitely never happened to me, no sir.

    It's interesting you raised the IFPA points though. Could a women's only event fairly award IFPA points? Either way, it would arguably lead to *less* prominence for the best female players as they slip down the ranks.

    I also don't hold much weight to this idea that women will play in both events. I think that would prove difficult due to time constraints, personal financial constraints or even just preference.. I think logically the majority that *would* find a women's only event appealing would surely play only in that subset for exactly the same reasons that they would prefer *not* to play the main event? Or are we really thinking that they'll play both (and therefore we don't need a womens only division?)

    #35 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wizcat:

    I think a large part of @blondetall's post there I can relate to ... as a man! I'm also not very good at pinball, certainly not to the level I can compete with the best. But I still enjoy trying, and would rather be able to compare my ability (or lack of) against those players, rather than play in a subset of weaker players.
    Of course I can't fairly comment on the feelings of being intimidated by a large group of hairy men. That has definitely never happened to me, no sir.
    It's interesting you raised the IFPA points though. Could a women's only event fairly award IFPA points? Either way, it would arguably lead to *less* prominence for the best female players as they slip down the ranks.
    I also don't hold much weight to this idea that women will play in both events. I think that would prove difficult due to time constraints, personal financial constraints or even just preference.. I think logically the majority that *would* find a women's only event appealing would surely play only in that subset for exactly the same reasons that they would prefer *not* to play the main event? Or are we really thinking that they'll play both (and therefore we don't need a womens only division?)

    IFPA points cannot be awarded to any restricted division. Same goes for Seniors, Juniors, Div C and Div B at PAPA. Classics and Div A are the only PAPA divisions that award IFPA points, from what I understand.

    #36 5 years ago

    And I'm all for girl power and all, but honestly I'm not exposed to enough pinball events to know how prevelant women playing in the tournaments actually is. Phoebe is a much better representative and she's for it, so that's great. I guess my worry would be that even if there was a separate division, would there even be enough women competing on a regular basis to warrant it.

    While theoretically it would be fun to compete for points, I'd just still be losing out to the great female players with tons more exposure and skill. Maybe what I actually need would be a less of a female-only event and more of a "beginners" smaller fun event, where the girlfriends, boyfriends, and children of the actual tournament players could pay $5 or so and compete for prizes like I have in my home tournaments for friends: candy bars and cheap little trophies. Of course I'd probably then get my butt kicked by a 6 year old. lol Heck, make it for charity (Project Pinball comes to mind) with no prizes except bragging rights, and that would give us less experienced people something to do and maybe raise money for a good cause.

    #37 5 years ago
    Quoted from Da_Topper:

    Helena Walter is not on the list and she won PAPA B some years ago.

    The list only included US players. Helena is a world-class pinballer!

    #38 5 years ago

    Pinball is not that physical. Nudging is easier if you are bigger. Female - Male should not make that much difference. Can a person in a wheel chair play pinball, you bet. The ability to see the playfield action is important, and to know some rules of the game you are playing.

    Now take it a different way. Women can be intimidated by playing a game with 20 guys behind her watching her, possibly. Surely there are some men that could feel that way too.

    #39 5 years ago

    NorCal represent!

    So I know Echa and was there for the first women's league night that she organized and am friends with a lot of the women in that league. Having their own league is important more for the pinball scene they have amongst each other, but also for the way women are vs. how guys are when competing and playing in general. The environment seems to be more nurturing and supportive even though we've got some really tough women competitors.

    Looking at the list of women I think I've been beaten by like 20% of them - most all in tournament play!

    #40 5 years ago

    When my wife had the women's league night, I kept out of the basement, but I could hear the cheers and laughter through the vents. It was a definitely different vibe than normal, or had they been part of larger mixed group.

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    The list only included US players. Helena is a world-class pinballer!

    At Pinburgh this year, out of every player I played against in the B division, she was easily the best...both genders included. Kicked our asses and got either a 10 or 11 in the group.

    #42 5 years ago

    I don't see from a competitive stand point why there should be a division. Pinball is a skill of dexterity, rapid eye movement, reflex and control....

    #43 5 years ago

    At a certain skill level, I think pinball can be more a skill of focus, patience, memory, and improvisation.

    #44 5 years ago

    This has nothing to do with ability! Not worried about another division because I don't think women can compete with men in pinball. Basically it is just a way to get more women involved in pinball. That I know of there are no women that play at PAPA now that wouldn't play in both a women's division as well as A, B or C and classics to boot. I feel that it would allow women who have not had much tournament experience the opportunity to compete in a division where they feel comfortable and have a chance to qualify. I have gone to PAPA several times and tried to qualify in C division and classics. I have never made it, I was close but never qualified for finals. I would still compete in other divisions at PAPA, but I would compete in a women's division also, just for the tournament experience.

    PAPA is a different tournament experience than other show/tournaments. There are ALOT of people there trying to qualify from all over the world! I think it would help some with less experience the chance to qualify for a tournament. Then they might gain the confidence/experience to try to qualify for A,B, or C division.

    The only other tournament that I can think of that has a women's division is The Flipout tourney at Pinball Expo. I don't expect every show to have a women's division but PAPA has the facility and it could be done, they do have Jrs. and Srs. division, so why not women's?

    Hey Mel (Blondetall) I totally understand what you mean about playing in tournaments. Me and hubby didn't start playing in any till 2010, because we would look at the lines and see all the people in line, and the tier of players in the lines, and always thought why bother...then we tried at some smaller tournaments, joined a pinball league and started going to PAPA. Once you have done it, it is fun! You get to meet new people and make new friends. The competition is fun, and you learn how to play some of the games you don't own...I still don't know rules for most games...not even the ones I have at home!

    Phoebe

    #45 5 years ago

    Pinball is a personal challenge against gravity, it has nothing to do with sex. This subject needs to just die.

    -1
    #46 5 years ago

    WNBA all over again..!!!

    -1
    #47 5 years ago
    Quoted from Butterflygirl24:

    That I know of there are no women that play at PAPA now that wouldn't play in both a women's division as well as A, B or C and classics to boot.

    After I posted my reply above, I had to think twice about Molly. She doesn't particularly care to be identified as a female player. She's just a player. She'd probably compete if the division was added, but she'd have to think about it. And if she didn't, she'd still root on the other ladies. She's not the type to impose her beliefs on others. Again, she's just a player.

    Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

    Pinball is a personal challenge against gravity, it has nothing to do with sex.

    image.jpg

    #48 5 years ago

    The questionn could probably be reframed to something like:

    What can be done to encourage more women to play competitive pinball?

    I know the odd woman is comfortable to deal with being surrounded by men, but personally I'd be happier if pinball wasn't such a sausage fest.

    #49 5 years ago

    Why a different division? When it comes to pinball men don't have one damn advantage over women that would even warrant having two divisions.

    #50 5 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    The list only included US players. Helena is a world-class pinballer!

    And a really super nice lady!

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