(Topic ID: 172487)

PAPA Going Pump n Dump


By CrazyLevi

3 years ago



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  • 112 posts
  • 47 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by GravitaR
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 years ago

    Turns out tiltforums is about more than just bitching about pinside!

    Pretty sweet shitstorm going down about the new PAPA 20 rules. No longer about a 5 game ticket, now it's best game pump n dump. A lot of the old schoolers are melting down over it.

    I thought it was cool before but I'm sure this new system will be fun too. Certainly less stressful. Seems "easier." In the end I bet it will have a bit of an effect on who gets in.

    #2 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Turns out tiltforums is about more than just bitching about pinside!
    Pretty sweet shitstorm going down about the new PAPA 20 rules. No longer about a 5 game ticket, now it's best game pump n dump. A lot of the old schoolers are melting down over it.
    I thought it was cool before but I'm sure this new system will be fun too. Certainly less stressful. Seems "easier." In the end I bet it will have a bit of an effect on who gets in.

    I've only been to PAPA once (this year) and the 5 game ticket system was very foreign to me. I soon got the hang of it though.

    Even though I had the flu bad, I'm not consistent enough to compete with those top guys. I got some good scores but not all on one ticket. That's what sorts out the men from the boys! Well, I did get 40th in classics between coughs so that wasn't totally hopeless.

    The pump and dump would give me some chance to make the playoffs. Well, more than the ticket system would anyway haha.

    I read the Tilt Forums thread and I can understand how some of the guys really like the current format. It is different to everything else out there, and really rewards the consistent players.

    rd

    #3 3 years ago

    Not a fan of this format at other shows and won't really be a fan at PAPA either. Not to say I was really a fan of their old format to begin with, as I'm not big into anything with expensive unlimited entries, however I understand that it's the best way to build up a prize pool, so I'll deal with it.

    I did find a great sense of intensity and satisfaction with the old PAPA style that I never really get in a "best game" pump and dump though.

    18
    #4 3 years ago

    Tournament play has always seemed over-complicated to me.

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Tournament play has always seemed over-complicated to me.

    I'm with ya. I'm a great proponent of using the KISS principles wherever possible.

    rd

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Tournament play has always seemed over-complicated to me.

    It doesn't have to be though! Local leagues and competitions may be "tournament play" at their core, however everyone's just there to have fun, and it becomes a great gathering place for the pinball community. I've made many great friends at local pinball tournaments, and I'm always happy to attend them when I get the chance, regardless of how I play.

    I find these major competitions to just take that idea and to expand it onto a much larger scale. There's many nice fellas I've met at PAPA, ReplayFX, and similar events that I only get to see when those events roll around.

    Overall I'd say don't worry about whatever may be intimidating or complicated, people will be happy to explain it to you and you'll have plenty of fun just being there, win or lose.

    #8 3 years ago

    I like it.
    It gives us Ham and Eggers a real chance.

    Cheers
    PCHOP

    BRAIN (resized).jpeg

    #9 3 years ago

    It's interesting that a couple of people have said they feel this new format will give them a better chance. You don't also think that the top players in the world also now have a better chance? (and therefore, unless you are legitimately one of the best in the world, you have less chance?)

    I've never been to PAPA, though have flown over for Pinburgh the last couple of years (queues being my main holdback from PAPA), but I would have been curious to see if I could get a lucky game streak that qualified. I can also only imagine the intensity of pressure upon yourself when you're having a good ticket. Certainly seemed an interesting format

    New format turns every game into a high score comp with unlimited entries. I think it's more likely that the 'best' (those capable of crushing games given a few attempts) will rise to the top, so in that regard arguably a better format. Will probably make qualifying less interesting, but finals more interesting.

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wizcat:

    It's interesting that a couple of people have said they feel this new format will give them a better chance. You don't also think that the top players in the world also now have a better chance?

    They are going to qualify anyway, no matter what the format. They are the best for a reason.

    rd

    #11 3 years ago

    Fuck the new format. It rewards big spending not good play, guess I'll switch from papa to pinburgh. Will really miss the classics.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from nikpinball:

    Fuck the new format. It rewards big spending not good play, guess I'll switch from papa to pinburgh. Will really miss the classics.

    The "high ups" told me that one guy spent over $1000 on $15 entries for A division in 2015 ... and still didn't qualify.

    So don't think people aren't spending huge money as it is now ... it's pretty expensive, especially as the entries were $20 each this year.

    I think I did two entries in A a day lol. Probably why I came 100th. Plus I was sick as hell. 10,000 miles to play at PAPA and I get sick. What a bummer. Lol.

    rd

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    They are going to qualify anyway, no matter what the format. They are the best for a reason.

    Yepp - you will see some pretty stunning scores on the machines.

    I participated in PAPA 18 and 19 with little succes and tons of frustration, but I loved this unique format. Competing - first of all - against yourself getting in a four/five games per ticket way, was very exciting. A lot of this excitement will be lost. But why not give it a try...

    #14 3 years ago

    Wow, possibly the only format worse than the one they already had...

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    I'm not consistent enough to compete with those top guys. I got some good scores but not all on one ticket. That's what sorts out the men from the boys!

    I agree with you there. Having a high score comp for qualifying allows less consistent players in. It's easier to blow up a game once out of a 100 rather than once out of five.

    I like how the main tourneys have specific rules to each. It makes them all unique to play. I wonder why they changed this. Maybe hoping for more money to come in? Oh well. They'll try it for a time and if it's not successful they'll change it to something else.

    Edit: After reading the tiltforum thread, PAPA's Doug brought up a valid point that a lot of players were able to have qualifying tickets with multiple 0s. That's the antithesis of consistency so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

    If you give the top players multiple tries with no penalty at getting a top score on a machine they will do it. This may prove a better barometer for how skilled the players are who qualify.

    I think I'll leave it to the capable people at PAPA. They'll work it out.

    #16 3 years ago

    PAPA is well versed in competition formats. They didn't make this change lightly and I imagine something had to really make them go back to the drawing board and think this over. I don't think its going to be easier to qualify at all you might get luckier if you have more money but as someone already stated. The A division players will still be right at the top. They'll be qualifying just as they did before but not as hard.

    I'm going next year because I love the facility and the competition. I don't care if they do pingolf I'll be there

    #17 3 years ago

    The best players are much more consistent, so this definitely gives more average players a better chance, IF they dump a ton of money in it!

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    The best players are much more consistent, so this definitely gives more average players a better chance, IF they dump a ton of money in it!

    Can you explain why you think this? The best players are not ONLY more consistent, they also have more monster games. So I think there is little difference in who gets into finals between the two formats. Remember that you still have to put up good scores on multiple machines. One or two monster games still won't get you in.

    -2
    #19 3 years ago

    well, this makes the conflict with MGC mean little/nothing now.

    I think this is a really bad change but the reason for it is obvious. PAPA is 100% about trying to figure out how to get lessor players to help seed a larger pot for the good ole boys club of top players. Guessing this new format will also get some of the A players to pump a bit more?

    HERB style play is largely gone to the wayside in the modern era of pinball competition. Players vote with participation and in general most seem to like limited entry formats. Pump and dump is cool for a side event or something to occupy time for those that get bumped for a main.

    Making PAPA pump and dump removes lots of the novelty of the 5 game ticket. The 5 game ticket was a very fun format and obviously geared towards consistent play.

    For those that are now out on PAPA, I suggest checking out MGC which is one of the best social, collector, hobbyist shows in the whole nation. No pump and dump at MGC and the tourney continues to bring in more players and more IFPA points.

    #20 3 years ago

    I loved the (Now Gone) Papa ticket format as it better sorted out the players and made Papa unique. That charm is now gone thus making Papa just another run of the mill event.

    Classics only taking 4 games of 16 has me scratching my head. Why increase the number of games and require 1/4th of them to qualify? Should be 1/2 like all the other divisions of play. Also with the change to Pump N Dump just have 1 Classics Event with qualifying Thursday-Friday and hold playoff / finals on Saturday Afternoon. Gives players more time to qualify, can enlarge the required games to play to 8 of 16, allow people to qualify in the main divisions instead of spending all day qualifying in a Daily Classics event due to the lines of the past. A "B" Classics division could be added since you have more machines in the division to use.

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    For those that are now out on PAPA, I suggest checking out MGC which is one of the best social, collector, hobbyist shows in the whole nation. No pump and dump at MGC and the tourney continues to bring in more players and more IFPA points.

    I'll add that MGC also offers tournament variety, especially if you participate in the Friday night events. In one weekend you can do PinGolf, Clock Chaos (similar to PAPA - do well on multiple games on one ticket), plus the main MGC tournament. It's definitely a fun weekend.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from GravitaR:

    Classics only taking 4 games of 16 has me scratching my head. Why increase the number of games and require 1/4th of them to qualify? .

    I'm guessing because of the already insane lines at Classic, coupled with the pump n dump format, adding more games was prudent.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from mkecasey:

    I'll add that MGC also offers tournament variety, especially if you participate in the Friday night events. In one weekend you can do PinGolf, Clock Chaos (similar to PAPA - do well on multiple games on one ticket), plus the main MGC tournament. It's definitely a fun weekend.

    MGC doesn't have almost all of the best players in the world vying for the world championships, and it doesn't have near the prize or WPPR pool.

    I'm sure it's a nice event but folks shouldn't pretend there's a chance people will defect from PAPA to attend it.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    MGC doesn't have almost all of the best players in the world vying for the world championships, and it doesn't have near the prize or WPPR pool.
    I'm sure it's a nice event but stop pretending there's a chance people will defect from PAPA to attend it.

    Levi, people will opt to go to MGC over PAPA. That is reality, they have in the past and this change will likely make some thing about not doing PAPA this year. Sure the top 100 in the world wont, but those people tend to be more motivated at cash payouts and points.

    Still lots of points to be had at MGC with mutliple events all with 80 to 200 players.
    MGC also offers a great social setting, amazing collection of proudly displayed hobbyist games, cosplay, board games, arcades, etc... the list goes on and on. There is a reason other shows have begun to model themselves on the way MGC does things.

    I really did not mean to make it a PaPa or MGC thing with my comment. I was just pointing out that with the conflicting dates last year and this year is was always a tough choice. Now with the change to Papa it is a much easier choice to do MGC.

    I personally would liekt o see the return of the 5 game ticket to Papa and to also have it not conflict with MGC dates, then I would go to both events!

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from mkecasey:

    I'll add that MGC also offers tournament variety, especially if you participate in the Friday night events. In one weekend you can do PinGolf, Clock Chaos (similar to PAPA - do well on multiple games on one ticket), plus the main MGC tournament. It's definitely a fun weekend.

    You coming home for MGC this year?

    If so, I could use some scorekeeper help on Friday for CC. It comes with perks.

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    MGC doesn't have almost all of the best players in the world vying for the world championships, and it doesn't have near the prize or WPPR pool.
    I'm sure it's a nice event but folks shouldn't pretend there's a chance people will defect from PAPA to attend it.

    I wasn't suggesting it was. I was just adding to Whysnow's point about MGC being a great event.

    12
    #27 3 years ago

    I'm not going to spend a thousand dollars to pay for hotel room and airfare to play in a pump-and-dump. Ever. The move to push away from consistency in favor of bigger pots from people that don't know when to stop and give up is just a fail in my eyes.

    *Edit* Also, this is the exact problem with removing too much pressure from competition. It's one thing to say "This tournament is play all weekend through qualifying for one price." versus "This tournament is unlimited ATTEMPTS on single games." People need to learn when to stop, as well as when to play. If you're trying to compete leagues above your actual skill level, you're NOT going to have fun, and I don't know about everyone else, but the only thing worse than getting my ass kicked is getting my ass kicked and losing a ton of money in the process. Herb feeds off the same emotional responses that say, a slot machine does.... "Oh, if I can play just one more game, I might have that monster game and sneak in!" No....statistically...you WON'T. But that's what every tournament director that runs pump-and-dump wants you to think. And that irritates the hell out of me. If you want an inclusive, friendly tournament, don't put yourself in the position of trying to compete in a world-class high stakes thing like PAPA. Go play something like Pinburgh, where you are guaranteed X amount of play for your money, and if you lose? You still probably had a LOT of value and fun in it, versus just being pissed off that some other player walked out with all your money after you tanked 35 games on Creech.

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    You coming home for MGC this year?
    If so, I could use some scorekeeper help on Friday for CC. It comes with perks.

    I'm going to try! I am going to take a look at the calendar once the new year rolls around and try to find a way to pull it off.

    #29 3 years ago

    MGC is way to crowded and I'm very surprised the Fire Marshall hasn't shut it down to excessive crowds and narrow walk paths. Can't even play a game of pinball without a passer by rubbing you or pushing you against the machine to get by. Vendor tents outside, if rains is a total mess for all.

    Would love to attend MGC of old since the tourney play on Friday was fun. Also like to visit Tom's place one of these years as I love to play the older games.

    A MGC Memory:

    mgc1 (resized).jpg

    mgc2 (resized).jpg

    #30 3 years ago

    Veering a bit OT, I don't know anything about playing pinball competitively, but it looks fun. It would be cool if it were for big bucks!

    I had occasion to be at Staples Center in downtown LA Saturday. I couldn't believe the thousands of people lining up to get in there for a video game tournament. That's right, they were paying to go in and watch a video game tournament for a game called League of Legends. This was the 2016 World Championship, and the winning team took home $2 million. Let me say that again. First place was TWO MILLION DOLLARS!

    I'm guessing the prize money for the pinball is lagging that.....

    #31 3 years ago

    Not understanding Doug's comment about the 5 game ticket not showing consistency. Pump n dump requires 0 consistency. It boils down to time and how big is your wallet. Me for example, I'm a so so player, but I can blow up a machine now and again. Given a deep enough wallet I could in theory qualify for A, but I sure do not belong in it. On a 5 game ticket I have to do well across multiple games. Sure, I can zero out one or two, but I at least have to do well across a few on the same ticket.

    Really not seeing the skill in this. Just seems like a way for them to get more coin drops. Sure, the best of the best will still get in, but I have a feeling the earlier rounds will see some so so players who paid to get in get eliminated in spectacularly poor fashion.

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from dung:

    Not understanding Doug's comment about the 5 game ticket not showing consistency. Pump n dump requires 0 consistency. It boils down to time and how big is your wallet. Me for example, I'm a so so player, but I can blow up a machine now and again. Given a deep enough wallet I could in theory qualify for A, but I sure do not belong in it. On a 5 game ticket I have to do well across multiple games. Sure, I can zero out one or two, but I at least have to do well across a few on the same ticket.
    Really not seeing the skill in this. Just seems like a way for them to get more coin drops. Sure, the best of the best will still get in, but I have a feeling the earlier rounds will see some so so players who paid to get in get eliminated in spectacularly poor fashion.

    You wouldn't have qualified before, you won't qualify now.

    The real question is, why do you care, and why do you think this is some kind of paradigm shift when in your case, you admit it won't likely change the results?

    In the end, not much will change. The same players with deep pockets will STILL have deep pockets and spend as much as they can to try to get in (just like PAPA 19), and many will still fail in finals in "spectacular fashion" (just like every tournament).

    #33 3 years ago

    Can't wait to listen to every podcast discuss this change....

    Only thing more boring than playing in a tournament is listening to people talk about tournament rules.

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from dung:

    Not understanding Doug's comment about the 5 game ticket not showing consistency.

    He was saying the 5 game didn't require as much consistency as people thought. It was assumed one needed 5 scoring games to qualify; he is stating that several people have qualified with one or two zeros so 'perfect' tickets weren't exactly necessary under the 'old' system.

    #35 3 years ago

    I agree with dung on his comment that with a deeper wallet, comes the potential to qualify in a much better position. however, that doesn't mean that you're going to do well in the finals (especially if you're a "hit or miss" player)

    MPE used the pump and dump format this year and to be honest, I think it was a much better value for the players. pay one flat fee to enter the tournament, and then you, yourself set the limit on what you want to dump into the games. the only thing that happens with a pump and dump format is the potential that a single machine has a huge line. with the current ticket format, all games are played an equal number of times, which leads me to...

    the tourney @ expo used the ticket format this year, but a comment was made that I think also holds merit. if need to qualify 6 games and you have 12 tickets, it would be nice if the player could decide where they wanted to use those additional 6 tickets (all on one game or spread them around). the software would just need to be changed to ensure that each play is captured (regardless of score) so that after 12 games total are played, the player is locked out. similar in nature to pump and dump, but with a set number of total plays.

    ticket format = a potentially larger pool of players because everyone has the same number of chances to have a [good] game and you can funnel more players through the lines given that each player has a set number of tries [per machine]

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Veering a bit OT, I don't know anything about playing pinball competitively, but it looks fun. It would be cool if it were for big bucks!
    I had occasion to be at Staples Center in downtown LA Saturday. I couldn't believe the thousands of people lining up to get in there for a video game tournament. That's right, they were paying to go in and watch a video game tournament for a game called League of Legends. This was the 2016 World Championship, and the winning team took home $2 million. Let me say that again. First place was TWO MILLION DOLLARS!
    I'm guessing the prize money for the pinball is lagging that.....

    Pinball also doesn't have hundreds of millions of players in a multi-billion dollar industry.

    The $100k+ in the prize pool for ReplayFX is pretty impressive, and probably the highest we'll see in pinball for quite a while. Nothing wrong with that, no one's trying to make a job out of playing in pinball tournaments.

    #37 3 years ago

    The whole "deep wallets" thing....between A entries at $25 a pop, and classics at $15 a pop (unless that goes up?) I was prepared to spend $300-400 on qualifying this PAPA. I don't see how that is going to change, at all.

    The only people who are likely gonna end up spending more money are the very top echelon of players, guys who used to get in and high seed on one ticket. And I think they can probably spare the cabbage, what with their sack full of pinball winnings!

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    the tourney @ expo used the ticket format this year, but a comment was made that I think also holds merit. if need to qualify 6 games and you have 12 tickets, it would be nice if the player could decide where they wanted to use those additional 6 tickets (all on one game or spread them around). the software would just need to be changed to ensure that each play is captured (regardless of score) so that after 12 games total are played, the player is locked out. similar in nature to pump and dump, but with a set number of total plays.

    I loved the set 12 qualifying attempts on 6 games at the Chicago Expo this year for the main Flip Out Tournament. No waiting in line all weekend, but most importantly an even playing field for everyone during qualifying...the way it should be. Trent said it was almost universally praised and that he planned on using it again next year.

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    Can't wait to listen to every podcast discuss this change....
    Only thing more boring than playing in a tournament is listening to people talk about tournament rules.

    So basically, you only opened the thread to make this comment and waste everyone else's time? Fantastic.

    #40 3 years ago

    Can someone explain "pump and dump?" (I know about the breastfeeding one already)

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    Can someone explain "pump and dump?" (I know about the breastfeeding one already)

    Unlimited attempts at qualifying. The more you want to pay, the more you can try to improve your score as time allows.

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The whole "deep wallets" thing....between A entries at $25 a pop, and classics at $15 a pop (unless that goes up?) I was prepared to spend $300-400 on qualifying this PAPA. I don't see how that is going to change, at all.
    The only people who are likely gonna end up spending more money are the very top echelon of players, guys who used to get in and high seed on one ticket. And I think they can probably spare the cabbage, what with their sack full of pinball winnings!

    It matters because for the legitimate players they now either have to pay more, or not get in. All because others will be willing to keep throwing money at it until they get a lucky game. You think in a hobby that has become about who can spend the most with 12.5 and 15k machines will bat an eye at dropping 1k to make a division? Not because they are good, but because they want to just be able to say that they are A division material. It will happen, and its not a good thing.

    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    the only thing that happens with a pump and dump format is the potential that a single machine has a huge line.

    I was going to mention this but figured it was just overkill. I know that I have manipulated this to my own great benefit in many many tournaments. Like at TPF the last time I attended, the EM bank was just ridiculously difficult, so I only used one or two entries... the classics bank had two Stargazers in it....you bet I found the one that played easier and did all my entries on that one. The one DMD bank I focused on had easier games (No Medieval Madness where balls jump off the wireform right down the left outlane every time you make the left ramp... F___K THAT S___T...) and I ignored the one or two games that were tough or tilty until I absolutely HAD to...why would you do anything else in Herb, other than out of sheer desparation? At least with the 5 game ticket, you're FORCED to not hog machines you know you're already great at.

    Unless you're Elwin, then you're great at everything, play one game on each, and quit for the day.

    #44 3 years ago
    Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

    Pinball also doesn't have hundreds of millions of players in a multi-billion dollar industry.
    The $100k+ in the prize pool for ReplayFX is pretty impressive, and probably the highest we'll see in pinball for quite a while. Nothing wrong with that, no one's trying to make a job out of playing in pinball tournaments.

    100k is pretty good for pinball. I'd rather play than watch someone play, but if I had to watch, I'd rather watch someone playing pinball than a video game. There is something actually going on there physically. Sitting there watching other people play video games? I don't get it. I like playing video games, but watching them be played? No.

    #45 3 years ago

    A lack of variety is what concerns me. INDISC is pump and dump. I didn't see a few guys on the second day because they were already sitting pretty for finals on day 3. I don't want to travel to INDISC and then to other areas to play the same format. I did INDISC, Zapcon, TPF, and Pinburgh this year. Each had a different format aside from INDISC and Zapcon, but Zapcon get's about half the players INDISC does. That was fun, and I know what I can do to be more competitive next year. I plan on doing the same 4 next year and would like to find a late-year event to do as well. I run a ton of events, I know it's hard to keep things super-fresh, but for large, once a year events, I'd like to see as much variety of formats as possible.

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    So basically, you only opened the thread to make this comment and waste everyone else's time? Fantastic.

    Yup, had to open to find out what exactly it was about.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from GravitaR:

    MGC is way to crowded and I'm very surprised the Fire Marshall hasn't shut it down to excessive crowds and narrow walk paths. Can't even play a game of pinball without a passer by rubbing you or pushing you against the machine to get by. Vendor tents outside, if rains is a total mess for all.
    Would love to attend MGC of old since the tourney play on Friday was fun. Also like to visit Tom's place one of these years as I love to play the older games.
    A MGC Memory:

    You should come back and BRING a game.

    MGC being crowded is the reality of being a good show. However, the tourney lines are not crowded on Friday as the VIP event is limited space. The main tourney is easy to play through as limited entries on a handfull of games.

    If you bring a game then you get full acess to the after party which is more room than you could ever need and you can play to your hearts content till the wee hours.

    Vendor tent was just fine. They have improved that vastly over the first year.

    Things get better every year with MGC! Come back over to check it out.

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from dung:

    It matters because for the legitimate players they now either have to pay more, or not get in.

    The top guys got in on just a handful of tickets last year.

    You really think they'll suddenly have to dump $500 just to scrape by the same people they beat every year?

    Maybe they'll have to spend a little more to assure their high seeding. And you know what, that's absolutely fine. The "deep pocket" borderline players you keep talking about have ALWAYS subsidized the prize pool for the guys who get in on one ticket. I don't see why it's a bad thing that even the top players will have incentive to contribute more into the pool of money they are going to be favored to win anyway.

    And if you really think that some of the top guys can't afford to spend $100-200 instead of $25-50....well, let's face it, if money is that tight they should probably reorder their priorities beyond competitive pinball.

    #49 3 years ago

    I much prefer the tickets that award consistent play. With the high scores only, it focuses all of your attention on just getting blowout scores and anything else ends up being useless. If you don't have a grandmaster-worthy score, it's basically a loss.
    With the 3-5 game tickets, you can feel satisfied getting good scores on every game.
    YMMV

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    Unlimited attempts at qualifying. The more you want to pay, the more you can try to improve your score as time allows.

    PAPA already had unlimited attempts, and people already poured lots of money in trying to qualify. So by that definition, PAPA was already "PND". My strategy was to put together a solid ticket and then play the opposite 5 games "PND" style to bring down other's point totals.

    The change is that they are in effect giving those with deep pockets and the ability to spend 3 days qualifying a more significant advantage versus the traditional ticket system. Most average players can put up a huge game eventually if they try enough. Far fewer could put up three or four huge ones on the same ticket, even with dozens of entries.

    This is a bummer IMO as I could come on Saturday morning and compete without feeling at a big disadvantage vs those who are able to take several days off. It also means less strategy, although I'm unclear if multiple scores on the same machine still count toward point totals in terms of affecting other's scores. This could mean non-"blowout" scores still mattering.

    I hope it changes back.

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    Whitewater pinball mods
    $ 35.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Filament Printing
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 54.99
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 99.99
    $ 209.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    $ 249.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 79.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 5.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    $ 14.95
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 24.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 149.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    From: $ 25.00
    Various Other Swag
    Shoot Again Pinball
    From: $ 99.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    RGP Models
    $ 11.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 30.00
    Electronics
    Third Coast Pinball
    From: $ 19.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinBoss Mods
    $ 22.00
    Hardware
    The MOD Couple
    $ 9.00
    Cabinet Parts
    Third Coast Pinball
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