I read the entire doc. One part I found a bit odd is the description of the pothole. It is said to be large and deep. These are not precise and objective measurements. Was it 8 feet wide and 3 feet deep? 3 feet wide and 2 feet deep? 1 foot wide and 8 inches deep? This is fairly relevant to the situation. Large and deep is a very sloppy definition for something of this nature.

Note that I am not a lawyer, I only play one on TV. And internet forums.

If it aint deep enough for some deep sea fishing, it aint that deep!

large-potholes (resized).jpg

Lawsuits are intentionally vague. If you state the pothole is 8" deep and in the course of the suit it comes out it was only 7" deep the defense atty can move for dismissal. The specifics will come out in discovery.

Gotta laugh at all the "personal responsibility" warriors on here. You have no idea what the circumstances of the lawsuit are and neither do I.
BUT when my dad recently had a fall and was injured at a restaurant. His health insurance company asked how the injury happened, as soon as they found out that he fell on another persons property they sued the restaurants insurance company for reimbursement of all hospital bills. My dad was named as the plaintiff and the restaurant was the defendant, that's just how it was written. It didn't mean that my dad was trying to screw over anyone or anything like that. It was one insurance company trying to recoup money from another insurance company.
Now as I said earlier I don't know anything about the details of this lawsuit, but wow, love seeing all these "experts" chime in here.

I had a full on ankle blowout that needed two surgeries to repair from an injury in a basketball game. The game happened at a church, and when the insurance company called me for details, I did not tell them it happened at a church, because I knew they would go after them, despite it being a sports injury that could have happened at any place. Insurance companies are shameless in their aggressiveness.

This seems totally plausible. The complaint does include "pain and suffering" language which would suggest damages beyond just medical bills, but the plaintiff's insurer may leave that in by default since they don't want to be said to have cut off their client's rights by failing to include claims.

I agree with your overall point that no one knows precisely what happened that night, or what's going on with the lawsuit, so getting out the soap boxes and railing that none of this would have happened in the good old days of Opie Cunningham is probably a bit premature.

That's one way to go about it. Of course if your insurer thinks you're lying they can probably cut off your coverage and demand reimbursement for services already covered (check your contract). And it wouldn't occur to many folks to do this, even if the end result is that "they" end up suing their church, best friend, or favorite pinball non-profit.

This doesn't make any sense. If you hit another car, I guess you'd take responsibility, write the other driver a check, and leave insurance out of it. Something tells me you'd call your insurance company. Or do you not have insurance because you're a responsible person? Having insurance IS taking responsibility. That's it's entire purpose. In his example, it was a homeowner's claim instead of auto....no difference.

I'd like some European perspective here. Tell us all how stupid this is.

I severely sprained my ankle while at work about 10 years ago. Walking across the patio, one of the pavers was a few inches lower than the rest of them, and my foot went right in the hole and sprained badly. Hurt like hell for a few days.

Fast forward 10 years, turns out I strained the peroneal tendon in my ankle and since it was stretched, it kept rubbing against the bone, fraying it over the next 10 years until it was so bad I was in a lot of pain and had to have surgery to prevent it from snapping (doctor's words).

Was I an idiot for not seeing the indentation? I'd say I wasn't, and in hindsight, I wish I had brought this up to HR and done the worker's comp thing because I had a lot of real expenses down the road from it, and Jill's issue sounds like it was MUCH worse.

Bro.... you never know just how stupid fate is going to be.

My kid tore his ACL by STEPPING ON A SOCCER BALL. I'm not even kidding. Stepped right on the top of it and had a partial detachment at the bone that required surgery to put a screw in it to reattach it. Pretty sure the final hospital bill was around 40k all said and done.. we paid the 2600 deductible plus made payments to the hospital for the rest.

I tore MY ACL by....hopping off a street curb. AGAIN, NOT EVEN KIDDING. Yes, I'm fat, but holy crap not like 500 lbs! And I delivered pizza for 5 years without more than stubbing my toe! Seriously, I was walking, had headphones in, was just jamming, and went to hop off the curb, landed a tiny bit wrong with the left foot first and that f'er just said "PEACE OUT BRO" tore right in half, and let my bones smack each other. I called some friends that were a few blocks down the street, because at that point I was lying IN the street, they came and dragged me to the bar, where I put ice on it for a few hours, hobbled to my car 2 blocks away, and then went and got an MRI a week later to the tune of over 1k out of my pocket. Opted for NOT SURGERY and rehabbed it myself at the gym. It's still janky, but functional 2 years later! Surgery would've been 4-6 months of intensive physical therapy and thousands of dollars more.

I hit my head coming out of a vehicle that was in my shop.

Who should I sue? The car owner, my boss, or the assholes that designed the car that way?

Yourself dumbass

You'd guarantee a win in court! (and a loss, but...)

Damn Explorer's got a slanted back side window frame that comes to a point that aint on my Toyota. I say it is the car owner that is the dumbass for buying the thing.

It's your employers fault because you aren't able to walk on slightly uneven ground? Why is it someone else's fault that you did not look down and avoid a 3" hole in the ground?

No, it's my employer's fault for having one paver (that happened to be almost exactly foot sized) sunken so that if you step just right, your foot goes in and then can't come back out without spraining an ankle.

Slumlords must love the crowd in this thread. "I don't need to fix anything, just deal with it yourself."

I wonder if that lady that broke her leg while stealing packages off someone's porch ever sued the property owner.

Ok, now let's say that when you hit your head you cut it and required stitches. You go to the hospital with your insurance card in hand to get your head stitched up. The doctor asks how it happens, you tell him, and he writes it in your chart. The doctor submits the claim to your insurance, insurance pays whatever crazy amount is charged for the er visit, 4 hours of hospital bed, the 20 doctors/nurses/staff stopped in and said hi to you. The insurance company sees that it happened at work and say they have to sue your boss's insurance company. What do you do? Do you just say, Oh I take personal responsibility for everything I do, just send me the $30,000 bill? I think not.

She would probably win. Only in America!

If you break your wrist ice skating at Rockefeller Center, do you get to cash in too?

Yeah, that is what workman's comp is for. Sky's the limit when you knick yourself on the job.

I like the part about being billed from each doctor that walks by the door and glances inside. So true!

Ice skating is an activity were the average person would assume there's a very good chance of falling over and injuring themselves.

Ice Skating is one of those things that will soon be outlawed in the good old US of A.

If Rockefeller Center was negligent in their maintenance of the ice rink, and you hurt yourself because of it, then it's very possible. Again, the slumlords in this thread would apparently disagree and blame the victim.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/ice-skating-accident-claim-liability.html

What happened to this Pinball community?
I never thought I would see as many hurtful and troll-ish remarks as I have reading this thread. People who know nothing of what happened are so quick to demonize one of their own so they can write some cheeky Pinside post and look cool amongst other Pinside fools.
What happened to edifying and encouraging another? All this thread is ,apart from a couple of posts, is just tearing Jill down.
I am really ashamed at the Pinball / PinSide community right now. Everyone is acting like they are the judges when they know nothing.
Yes, I am from Michigan and know Jill very well. She is a good person, and I’m not afraid of what any of you delinquents will say about me either.

Grow up Pinside.

Sincerely,
Aaron Grabowski

First, I do not know the lady, so no she is not one of my own.

Second, I look where I am walking and if I trip, it is my own damn fault.

Third, I do not own a cell phone, so chances of me tripping and falling because I wasn't paying attention are slim to none.

Why does everyone keep bringing up cell phones? Did it say somewhere she was on her phone?

Aaron it's because PAPA is so important to pinball. It's like a Trekkie suing Gene Roddenberry

As surely this is.

Not as likely, she'd have to try it herself, as I doubt her own insurance (if she had any) would cover her for injury during commission of a crime.

Sure sure...we're to believe you, someone dumb enough to bash his head getting out of a car, and you're a GODDAMN MECHANIC.

Yeah, but I was looking at where to put my feet, not my head.

Did somebody say she wasn't?

C'mon man! At her age they are on that thing more than not. Especially when walking thru a parking lot coming out of some event.

I think it'll soon be a summer sport in much of the US of A!

Because that is why we have insurance...to insure against accidents. Do you really not know how this works or (as I suspect) are you playing ignorant for trolling sake. Either way hopefully you understand how it works now. Also to those that say "I look where I am going.." I applaud you for never being distracted while also feeling bad for you that you need to stare at the ground as you walk. You are asking Jill to take responsibility while suggesting PAPA or whoever owned the lot should not need to be responsible to fix their property. The real truth here is there are 2 insurance companies hiding behind PAPA and Jill. Also to the hardcore keyboard boss that said they wanted to "punch him or her in the face" please assume it was me - Aaron Lucero- and take it out on me, any injuries will be handled by my insurance co. and they will be in contact with you.

The guy must have seen the Porsche, Bulldog, Flat screen TV that PAPA has... We should just pressure PAPA to sign over the headquarters right now

I am not going to guess how old Jill is but I think you are under the impression that she is a teenager or something.

I guess if a big old pothole suddenly formed and jumped up and bit me in the ass, I'd be looking to sue somebody too.

Got it, so it is people just making things up to suit their narrative.

Welcome to Pinside - We've scared everyone away... because we are a-holes and the mods/admins do nothing to discourage it or stop it.... /serious sarcasm - its funny cause its true

It would be kind of funny though. You crying in pain for an hour or 2 alone; so proud of not having a cell phone!

No, I have the impression that most people have cell phones now and are totally oblivious to everything else when they are using them. Especially younger women (younger than me that is).

But hey, if she can get somebody else to pay her medical bills and end up with extra on top of that, more power to her!

It's the American way.

That's why I pay attention when I'm walking.

its stupid - UK just put laws in place to stop this nonsense. everyones insurance has gone down a year later...

not saying that anyone is right or wrong or commenting on this case. before - in the UK filing this late would mean instantly being thrown out.

It is really funny (in that not really funny kind of way) just how fast this can catch you off guard. Yes I do agree that in general if you watch where you are going you shouldn't trip and fall. But heck it happened to me. Just walking down the sidewalk, walking the dog. Not distracted, not on the phone. What took me down was a sidewalk slab that was raised up no more than one inch. I had walked over 1000 times before. I hit it just right and that was it.

What was weird is what happened next. I was walking along and then in an instant what I saw was the concrete rushing up at my face, fast. Very fast. It was like a scary scene in a movie. I was just able instintively react to tuck before I hit, landing on my shoulder and escaping serious injury.

This happened not too long after two people I knew did the same thing, and had their faces rearranged when they face planted. I mean broken teeth, bloody cuts, the works requiring a hospital visit. I remember thinking to myself that sucks but they need to be more careful. Well it almost happened to me. If I didn't have lightning quick reflexes I would have done the same. The memory of that concrete rushing toward my face is embedded in my brain.

I remember reading aboot a case similar to the pic of open cellar doors. It occurred in NYC about 7 years ago. Person was texting and walking down sidewalk. They fell into open cellar doors abutting and directly over the sidewalk where vendors keep their store surplus. Case was awarded to the distracted walker stating the store should have had a person stand by the open doors and should have coned the area off too. In that case, I had sympathy for the walker, who wasn't totally blameless, but was put in harm's way by a negligent store owner. A parking lot with pot holes and uneven pavement shouldn't be cause to sue.

Yeah, those are everywhere.

Surprised we don't hear about more lawsuits stemming from those. Especially from those in the pinball hobby that we know are so honest.

Root (resized).jpg

You made a mistake regarding the intent of my question. I was hoping you would explain the rationale behind your thinking (and you did) to better illustrate the point that it may have been a reasonable, rational decision.

Insurance is a service. Their job is to assume risk. As a paying customer it's perfectly reasonable to use the service you're paying for.

I think most of us would argue if you are injured and don't suffer damages you shouldn't try and get a payday by faking an injury. But neither is it reasonable to be forced into bankruptcy and/or homelessness from complications of an injury no matter who's fault it is.

It seems unlikely Jill has ill intent. I look forward to seeing more information as it becomes available.

A friend of mine brings up a good point....

This is a lot of competitive pinball to be playing for someone who is seriously injured!

I know it’s a cheap shot but would likely come up in court if it ever got that far...

A59BB0CC-A17C-4E65-AB0B-F9B38B0B3D40 (resized).jpeg

Funny thing is we have those exact kinds of sidewalks all over around here. But heck you see those easy from a mile away and avoid them. It's those insidous one-inchers that get you.

WTF??? I just learned we are friends!!!!

Awesome!