PAPA 21 - is it happening?

(Topic ID: 202295)

PAPA 21 - is it happening?


By westofrome

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 83 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by CrazyLevi
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    pasted_image (resized).png
    DSC00814 (resized).JPG
    pasted_image (resized).png

    There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 1 year ago

    No word on the PAPA website yet, and it's time to start clearing calendars and making plans. Not sure when previous Championships were announced, but I have to think it was by now. I know they were planning on selling the building and moving the event to a new venue, so this may be contributing to the timing. Any word or gossip, anyone? A basic save-the-date would be great.

    #3 1 year ago

    Whoa. So there we have it.

    Power: 1600 amps, 480v, 3-phase

    I wondered what it took to run all those machines.

    But all seriousness aside, great thread. Ever since I started playing pinball 3 years ago, I've taken off work for PAPA. I need to know the dates so I can get my request off submitted before some other idiot around here requests off.

    #5 1 year ago

    From This Week in Pinball (http://thisweekinpinball.com/)

    "Something big is brewing in New York City. Levi Nayman, Tim Sexton, and Paul Caras have teamed up to form Never Beef Productions and hope to restore pinball to its former glory in The Big Apple. Keep the dates May 18th-20th of next year open on your calendar, and stay tuned for an announcement today that will shake the pinball community to its core!"

    At first I thought this might be the new PAPA location, but the Never Beef FB page is promoting the NYC Pinball Championships 2018, so I guess this is an all-new event.
    https://www.facebook.com/NeverBeef/

    #6 1 year ago

    Sounds like a take off from the Swedish Championships held every year.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    . Any word or gossip, anyone?

    I heard it won't happen, strictly gossip.

    #8 1 year ago

    Perhaps an answer lies within.

    pasted_image (resized).png

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    At first I thought this might be the new PAPA location

    Would they leave the Pittsburgh area given that the ReplayFX dates for the next few years have already been announced?

    #10 1 year ago

    If there is an answer at this time then perhaps ninjadoug would be able to give a better response than the speculation.

    #11 1 year ago

    Doug's answer on tiltforums was: "There is currently no set date or venue."

    -5
    #12 1 year ago

    PAPA is an ok tournament but it's just become the same old pump and dump tournament that every other event around the county holds, without the vendors or a near-bye hotel.
    Pinburgh is a lot more fun. I have quietly hoped for years that the PAPA World Championship just goes away.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    PAPA is an ok tournament but it's just become the same old pump and dump tournament that every other event around the county holds, without the vendors or a near-bye hotel.
    .

    You've obviously never stayed at the luxurious Extended Stay Carnagie before!

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    PAPA is an ok tournament but it's just become the same old pump and dump tournament that every other event around the county holds, without the vendors or a near-bye hotel.
    Pinburgh is a lot more fun. I have quietly hoped for years that the PAPA World Championship just goes away.

    I do miss the old format, but to say it's like any other tournament is a little much. The vast selection of games, the concentration of talent, the location accessible from east coast and midwest, the history and banners hanging from the rafters, it all makes it a special time and I really hope it can be preserved. It also is a much smaller minimum time commitment than Pinburgh, which I think is important for lots of folks.

    #15 1 year ago

    They lost me as an attendee going pure pump n dump and changing classics to 4 of 16 machines counting to your total. Bring back the ticket system as that is what made PAPA a must attend and unique event. I can attend a pump-n-dump event anywhere/anytime if desired. Make PAPA special again.

    #16 1 year ago

    Well with both the customer sentiment and the financial results in hand... maybe now they can make a real conclusion on the format change.

    I don't think the silence is a good sign honestly :/

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from GravitaR:

    They lost me as an attendee going pure pump n dump and changing classics to 4 of 16 machines counting to your total. Bring back the ticket system as that is what made PAPA a must attend and unique event. I can attend a pump-n-dump event anywhere/anytime if desired. Make PAPA special again.

    Pump and dump pays the bills, simple as that. Before, the best guys could roll in, play one or two tickets, and then do the same in classics or just sit on their ass for three days. Now, they have to keep paying to defend their scores so they can get their byes. On the bubble players will pay more and play more too. Pump and dump means more playing and more paying from everybody.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Pump and dump pays the bills, simple as that. Before, the best guys could roll in, play one or two tickets, and then do the same in classics or just sit on their ass for three days. Now, they have to keep paying to defend their scores so they can get their byes. On the bubble players will pay more and play more too. Pump and dump means more playing and more paying from everybody.

    PAPA was already pump and dump, just with tickets instead of single entries. You still wanted to fight it out to the end to defend your ticket and bring down other's tickets, but there's a greater reward for consistency and more strategy.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    PAPA was already pump and dump, just with tickets instead of single entries. You still wanted to fight it out to the end to defend your ticket and bring down other's tickets, but there's a greater reward for consistency and more strategy.

    I agree in principle but you have to see that the very top players weren't putting much money in at all. Keith Elwin would play literally one ticket and call it a tournament. Others would play 2 or 3. Now, no matter how well you do you have to play more to defend your scores, especially if you are anywhere near a bye.

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I agree in principle but you have to see that the very top players weren't putting much money in at all. Keith Elwin would play literally one ticket and call it a tournament. Others would play 2 or 3. Now, no matter how well you do you have to play more to defend your scores, especially if you are anywhere near a bye.

    Yup.

    It is sad however that they threw out the baby with the bath water.

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You've obviously never stayed at the luxurious Extended Stay Carnagie before!

    Red Roof for life. Luxury is not high enough praise.

    #22 1 year ago

    Attended my first PAPA this year, and definitely felt I missed out by never playing the ticket format. It just felt like a larger pump & dump, albeit with a great collection on free play and basically every top player in attendance. Judging solely from my tournament experience, Expo this year was more fun and a more interesting format.

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from zaterminator:

    Red Roof for life. Luxury is not high enough praise.

    Red Roof way better than the Extended Stay. Also provides more dining choices near by.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    The vast selection of games, the concentration of talent, the location accessible from east coast and midwest, the history and banners hanging from the rafters, it all makes it a special time and I really hope it can be preserved.

    Location is great... but still not a compelling reason to travel to pitt for 4 days, two times a year.

    History and banners... you do realize that the building is for sale and Kevin Martin (former owner of that property and all it's contents; now owned by Replay Foundation) has almost completely removed himself from the entire PAPA organization, right?

    That "former" PAPA building and all the games are great but that entire collection, maintaining the games, and the building itself has been in limbo for at least a few years now. There is no way PAPA WC's generated any funds at all this year and if ReplayFX came close to breaking even this year, I would be shocked.

    I realize it's a non-profit but if you are 50K in the hole at the end of the event/year and Kevin isn't going to pay the difference any longer, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's just not going to survive. It was fun while it lasted but I see the ReplayFX event as the future and it is definitely the more family friendly event and caters to the pinball enthusiasts and gamers in general, very well.

    If it can't survive, and in turn generate some funds for the other events like Papa World Championships, and maintaining the collection in general, I fear that papa.org is doomed. I mean, I volunteered many times for nothing in return, help organize the donation of machines to PAPA, and I hope more than anything that it continues!

    However, I am a realist and not a dreamer. What other entity is going to come forward and support this organization no matter how it's books look?

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You've obviously never stayed at the luxurious Extended Stay Carnagie before!

    LOL that's where I stayed this year. I love how they tout their "grab and go breakfast" which is nothing more than a granola bar. Then they pack everything away at 9:59:59. Who eats breakfast before 10 AM?

    Give me a heads up if there's a better hotel in the area with a free hot breakfast.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Location is great... but still not a compelling reason to travel to pitt for 4 days, two times a year.
    History and banners... you do realize that the building is for sale and Kevin Martin (former owner of that property and all it's contents) has almost completely removed himself from the entire PAPA organization, right?
    That "former" PAPA building and all the games are great but that entire collection, maintaining the games, and the building itself has been in limbo for at least a few years now. There is no way PAPA WC's made any money at all this year and if ReplayFX came close to breaking even this year, I would be shocked.
    I realize it's a non-profit but if you are 50K in the hole at the end of the event/year and Kevin isn't going to pay the difference any longer, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's just not going to survive. It was fun while it lasted but I see the ReplayFX event as the future and it is definitely the more family friendly event and caters to the pinball enthusiasts and gamers in general, very well.
    If it can't survive, and in turn generate some funds for the other events like Papa World Championships, and maintaining the collection in general, I fear that papa.org is doomed. I mean, I volunteered many times for nothing in return, help organize the donation of machines to PAPA, and I hope more than anything that it continues!
    However, I am a realist and not a dreamer. What other entity is going to come forward and support this organization no matter how it's books look?

    Interesting info, I really am not privy to the financials. If it's an issue of 50-100 K (?) to keep the PAPA tradition going (again, just speculation), I would contribute to a Kickstarter and based on the PAPA TV Kickstarter response, I have to believe others would too.

    #27 1 year ago

    PAPA always functioned on the backing and resources of Kevin. Clearly they had a plan when they moved it all to the Replay Foundation. At the time, IMO, it seemed like a good vehicle to allow Kevin to keep doing as he had, but at least get some recognized tax benefit from doing so. Dunno how much that was a factor... but seemed like functioning as a legal entity of its own was to clean things up. But it never seemed to have a business plan shared that included sustainability.. so people like me assumed it was status quo in terms of where the wallet muscle was coming from.

    Even back then, PAPA operated with a mystery business model... but because everyone trusted Kevin, things weren't questioned. I mean, clearly the guy was sacrificing like crazy.. so who is to doubt him when he has such a track record of doing it over and over without any hints of retreating.

    But now, without the angel backer... the questions about how its supposed to work seem valid. The change to the PAPA WC format seemed to be a move to try to improve the financials of the event. We have the facility on the market with no announced strategy of how the keystone events look for the future...

    I hate this post because its so full of 'seems' and lack of direct citations... but maybe that's really the core issue. Lack of transparency and clarity on Replay's ambitions and plans to make it work.

    I for one would have supported things like lower guaranteed payouts, prize pools, etc to keep PAPA working... but who knows, maybe that's not nearly enough to make a dent in the costs or even enough to make a difference.

    Or maybe none of this has to do with financials and all to do with something else... but we are left guessing....

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You've obviously never stayed at the luxurious Extended Stay Carnagie before!

    I have not stayed at that location, but I stayed at the Extended Stay close to the Replay FX event the first two years of the event, when I was a vendor at the show. The breakfast was really good. However, the last two years I stayed at the Omni William Penn.

    2 weeks later
    #29 1 year ago

    Hoping for some news bump.

    1 month later
    #30 1 year ago

    ... bump?

    This was such an awesome party every year.

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from Blipsqueak:

    ... bump?
    This was such an awesome party every year.

    was better when it was in August! Shuster would throw a great pre-PAPA party!

    #32 1 year ago

    From Doug:

    "Funding is not the issue. A pending sale of the building is the issue. There is nothing saying it won’t happen this year. Just not this year during the same time frame."

    and

    "The only thing I can say with 100% certainty is PAPA 21 will not be happening early in 2018 as it has the past few years. The sale of our current building and the search for a new one have made scheduling PAPA 21 impossible at this time.

    We declined the SPC invite due to the fact we do not have a firm date or facility."

    and it won't be moving to another state

    "After moving the collection a few miles every year for Pinburgh, it just makes my head hurt thinking of moving it to another state."

    1 week later
    #34 12 months ago

    Looks like sale is no longer pending?

    1 week later
    #35 11 months ago

    myself, i love the location and the PAPA event it's self. the strangeness of being surrounded by industrial wasteland and being able to tailgate gives it a real laid back casual atmosphere that can't and won't be retained in some state-of-the-art convention center. i love the pittsburgh area. it's far enough from and different enough from home (flat midwestern suburbia) to feel like a real vacation. but it isn't so far that the drive eats up an entire day.

    as for the PAPA event, i like it better than pinburgh/replay FX. i'm not a competitive player and pinburgh seemed to tie up the vast majority of their machines in competition where as PAPA only tied up 70 machines or so.

    what i really don't understand is... PAPA is going to have to house these machines somewhere. why not just have their events where they have their machines? PAPA needs a home not a weekend rental.

    DSC00814 (resized).JPG

    #36 11 months ago
    Quoted from douggalecawitz:

    why not just have their events where they have their machines? PAPA needs a home not a weekend rental.

    My understanding is that having it in downtown Pittsburgh brings in hundreds/thousands of people that it otherwise wouldn't. You can imagine that even if there was a permanent venue large enough within the city, it wouldn't be affordable for an arcade.

    #37 11 months ago

    Was there this past weekend probably for the last time and it was really sad. A lot of memories at that place that I don't think will be replicated anywhere else. RIP

    3 weeks later
    #38 11 months ago

    Curious if there is even a 1% chance PAPA could be held in the current facility this year since the sale is no longer pending per the listing.

    3 weeks later
    #39 10 months ago

    Hail Mary bump...

    #40 10 months ago

    Papa is not happening this year. Doug confirmed it in a recent podcast.

    #41 10 months ago
    Quoted from djreddog:

    Papa is not happening this year. Doug confirmed it in a recent podcast.

    Well that just sucks the big one.

    #42 10 months ago
    Quoted from douggalecawitz:

    why not just have their events where they have their machines? PAPA needs a home not a weekend rental.

    That's part of the problem with having a huge arcade. No one wants a huge arcade in their town/county.. or they want to license it like a huge arcade and charge licensing fees per machine, tax it etc. The current PAPA facility was setup with a compromise with the township - with the big limit being how often the facility can be opened to the public for events. The current facility is huge limiting factor... and why replay is in downtown and not carnagie.

    4 months later
    #43 6 months ago

    Could one of the filthy rich guys on here just put down the 1.4M to buy PAPA HQ so there can be a PAPA21?

    #44 6 months ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    Could one of the filthy rich guys on here just put down the 1.4M to buy PAPA HQ so there can be a PAPA21?

    Now if someone could buy out that storage building, take a wrecking ball to it, and make a parking lot out of it. That's another story.

    #45 6 months ago

    How large is the PAPA HQ building?

    #46 6 months ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    How large is the PAPA HQ building?

    big enough for comet pinball to relocate

    4 months later
    #47 57 days ago

    Bump for PAPA 21 in 2019 speculation.

    The listing has been updated to "In Contract" so that's good news?
    https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/100-Keystone-Dr-Carnegie-PA/6474990/

    #48 57 days ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    Bump for PAPA 21 in 2019 speculation.
    The listing has been updated to "In Contract" so that's good news?
    https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/100-Keystone-Dr-Carnegie-PA/6474990/

    Could mean: The property is in the process of being sold and currently is no longer available. The property could come back on the market if some terms of the contract are not met.

    1 month later
    #49 11 days ago

    According to this website https://www.crexi.com/properties/145590/pennsylvania-100-keystone-drive the property has closed via 1/8/2019.

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #50 11 days ago

    I really miss going and I don't even compete. Hoping they find a new place/sale, etc.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 5,799.99
    Pinball Machine
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 39.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 59.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 49.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Tim's Pinball Mods
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 26.95
    Playfield - Protection
    ULEKstore
    $ 21.00
    From: $ 16.95
    $ 117.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 9,000.00
    $ 19.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 19.95
    $ 6,995.00
    Pinball Machine
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 29.99
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 16.95
    $ 27.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 159.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Great American Pinball
    From: $ 185.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 27.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 9.99
    There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside